# 800Cr Crypto Founder Reveals Inside Secrets of Crypto In India! ## Метаданные - **Канал:** Varun Mayya - **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU - **Дата:** 23.01.2024 - **Длительность:** 51:44 - **Просмотры:** 38,597 ## Описание 0:00 - Highlights 1:20 - Intro 2:40 - Crypto market cycles 4:50 - Crypto exchanges shutting down in India 5:51 - India introducing crypto taxes 7:15 - Registering with government as a crypto company 09:03 - Mudrex after Binance and Kraken shutdown 10:27 - Keeping crypto funds on local platforms 11:52 - Regulatory Bodies sued Binance 14:12 - Crypto as young asset class 15:31 - Bitcoin halving impact on price 16:30 - Crypto as an uncorrelated asset class 17:40 - Bitcoin ETF launch 19:46 - Institutional Crypto services by Mudrex 21:43 - Bitcoin and Crypto after ETF Launch 23:00 - India and crypto regulation 23:30 - Crypto enabling service exports for India 26:06 - CBDC as managing the country in better way 28:31 - Bitcoin Speculation 30:59 - Crypto market cycles 31:18 - How Mudrex Deals with hyped coins 33:55 - Mudrex's research reports on crypto 34:26 - Mudrex's Ratings for different cryptocurrencies 37:42 - Importance of doing own research in crypto 39:33 - Crypto taxation in India 41:49 - Mudrex's vision for success 43:07 - Failure case for Mudrex 44:49 - How individuals can stay invested in long term 48:52 - Parting words for audience on understanding crypto before investing ## Содержание ### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU) Highlights you're doing something in crypto at some point you'll get to some scale where people be like crypto therefore for fraud I'm sure at the back of your head you're like I'm running an exchange so people can potentially lose money it's like probably one of the worst Cycles in the world us at mudre we've now been around for 6 years we've seen that one cycle and with crypto it seems like everything is just super compressed all asset classes go through cycles of hype and suppression and that happens with crypto over just four years in multiple ways a lot of very high-profile scams SL frauds in the industry these people are making money why the extra why push a little more and try to make some more money and then get in trouble that's just the nature of us as humans right like that cycle of greed always comes in crypto is not an outlier to this we've had regulated assets see this actually much more than crypto does do you think regulatory Clarity will also come to India when the RBI banned crypto 3 and a half years ago where there was expected that anyone dealing in crypto would get a 10-e prison sentence so we gone from to come register comply so what's the failure case for you no I think the simplest failure case is that everything shuts down ladies and gentlemen I'm with Adel he's a fantastic founder and somebody who's actually working in crypto so uh he runs a company called mudre they've raised $21 million they' valued at nearly $100 million and I think over the last 8 10 ### [1:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=80s) Intro months crypto has sort of been quiet there's no more wag me on Twitter anymore and I think only the serious people who are in that industry are left but also lots of shifts are happening if you've been noticing over the last few weeks Kraken has disappeared bance has disappeared from India and there's so much flux that I just thought I'll get edel here and I'll ask him what the hell is going on so ladies and gentlemen welcome to another episode of the numbers game and today we're here with edel hey Von thanks for having me here hi hi okay so first question this is going to be a hard one huh yeah uh how do you sleep at night poorly let me let me give the audience some context you're running a crypto company it's like probably one of the worst Cycles in the world right like people have kind of they got very hyped about crypto then they all lost faith uh I'm sure at the back of your head you're like I'm running an exchange so people can potentially lose money so you know you're probably losing sleep over that then there's the question of oh my God other crypto exchanges are being shut down right and maybe there's some Nuance to that we'll find out but uh you know that's worrisome and finally it's like you're doing something in crypto at some point you'll get to some scale people be like crypto Kai therefore fraud you got to deal with all of that why would you take all that no so we I think we'll talk a bit about why crypto is valuable later on in the podcast but to be really ### [2:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=160s) Crypto market cycles honest U with us at mrex we've now been around for six years we've seen that uh at mudre we've seen that one cycle and with crypto it seems like everything is just super compressed right like all asset classes go through cycles of hype and suppression and that happens with crypto over just four years in multiple ways right so mudre has been around for 6 OD years this is our second cycle that we are seeing as a company personally this is I think the third cycle that I'm seeing and going through so most market dynamics are actually easy to digest those are par for the course and those are not the things that I worry about anymore um the parts more are the things that are uncertain and moving really fast and uh you lose sleep basically over just those things um and then how they will change so for example something like a bance ban happening right and that as a result causes a large influx of cap of users coming in to the platform and then that leads to growth in numbers and now you need to just make sure that your platform is up and running and scaling up really well right like those are the things that keep on changing day over day that U make you just stay up at night some just like the government could come and ban everything you're saying there are also Good Times where you know something like a bance goes out of business in India and then that user base comes to you correct I mean some part is that of course it impacts the entire industry as well um then there are also like just generally the battles that we are fighting are very different right it's a an asset class that's growing that's coming up so the job of the of a Founder like me in a crypto company in a country like India is actually sitting and first on the one hand talking to Regulators making them understand what the industry is how is it growing and so on and so forth working with our users explaining them how do you participate in this asset class right about not thinking of this like a asset where you can just gamble your money way or look for those 100x returns and think of it as a way to diversify and grow your wealth over long term right like so those are some of the different Pathways that we've Chosen and that's the where and that's the place where my time gets spent effectively on a what's happening with bans and Kraken I mean I know they've disappeared from the App Store uh you ### [4:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=290s) Crypto exchanges shutting down in India know the problem with the news Cycles these days is just so fast that I didn't really understand why I just knew they went out of town for a bit Yeah so I if I can maybe just start off with some backstory of what's been happening with crypto in India over the last two years because without that all of this is just seems out of context right so a couple of years ago actually three odd years ago the first main thing that happened was that the Supreme Court reversed an RBI order that said that all crypto trading was banned that led to a lot of users coming in that got coupled with you know the insane quantitative easing that happened in during the covid period and all markets going up led to a lot of Indian users also participating in crypto but uh not all those outcomes were good and in a lot of cases there was a lot of I think in general pressure Over The Regulators to figure out a way to regulate all of this but step one for the regulator to do it is to First understand okay what's the real scale so a year and a half ago there was a new tax regime that came out that said that okay if you have crypto or are trading crypto this this needs to ### [5:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=351s) India introducing crypto taxes be followed right that was I think step one for the for the government and the regulator to try and understand what's going on a year after that in March 2023 uh there is this body called as the FIU the financial intelligence unit under the Ministry of Finance they are basically the ones who are keeping an eye over all suspicious transactions in the country so all banks reporting to them all payment gateways reported processors reported to them and tell them that okay these transactions are suspicious these are suspicious and that's important because a lot of times money in general gets used for terrorist financing money laundering for all illegal illicit activities and so on and so forth right so another large step in formalizing crypto is to first is to also understand okay what amount of crypto is actually being used for this so the FIU brought all uh all entities or asked all entities that were dealing in crypto to start coming in registering and by the way there's not something new every single country in the world has an FIU equivalent body so for example like a regulatory body yeah I mean it's a it's not a regulator reg you are regulated right H so there's a difference we are registered not regulated because the regulation means there is a regulator who setting up rules there are still no Regulators about it but inia in India but there are ways in which you can register and declare these transactions so that typically is always step one so for example mudre is also registered in the EU as a virtual asset service provider ### [7:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=435s) Registering with government as a crypto company so just like there is the FIU in India there is a body in the EU that takes care of all these stul and transaction monitorings and if we have to operate in the EU we need to report these transactions so the FIU just basically did the same they asked for entities or serving Indian customers to come and register with them uh they gave a nine odd month window for everyone to do it so for example mudre and 30 other entities went up and registered fairly quickly we got our registration done in June July and since then have been operating like this uh the FIU also sent out notices to all entities outside India requesting them to come and register multiple times give them a n9th month window so all your cracken bance everyone yeah so it was like if you are operating in crypto come and register it's like saying that if you are if you're operating any XYZ thing come and register with us right uh fairly standard thing to do um what happened is that over the course of these N9 months most of these entities did not register so if they did not register now fi saying that if you if you're not wanting to agree with what we are saying then might as well don't do business in the country right and that's what has happened now that after that nine odd month window they've gone back and send show cause notices to everyone saying that okay you need to come and tell us what are you doing in this country if you are not going to do it we will block access to your platforms and as a consequence of that over the last 2 3 weeks first uh the Apple App Store got banned then URLs started getting blocked and now the app is also blocked from the Play Store for most of these offshore entities none of this is true actually for a lot of the entities who are compliant and there are about 35 36 entities that are compliant including mudre uh so the FI is not saying don't do business it's just saying that if you're doing business these are the rules you follow and then just follow them and do it which I think is a very like a reasonable ask like everyone in the world does that m what is the Kraken and bance disappearing from India done for you like how many new users has ### [9:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=543s) Mudrex after Binance and Kraken shutdown brought you yeah so again to give you some sense of how large or what the base or what the market is it's estimated like it's estimated that about 5 to 8 million users have accounts on these offshore um entities and exchanges and there is about $400 to $500 million worth of crypto on these exchanges that is held by these users this is Indian users have 400 this Indian users who have this much amount potentially on most of these exchanges so for for example let's say a binance is huge right they've got 70 80 billion worth of assets so a 3 400 million might not be that large for them but it's large in the overall context so as a result what has started to happen is that after this or because of this Banning more and more users have wanted to shift to Indian platforms or FIU compliant platforms and I think that's rightly so right simply because from the perspective that let's say if I'm an investor I would rather have my money in a platform that's governed by my government so that if something goes wrong with my money I can go back and at least ask my government to take some protective Action Against The Entity right for example we've seen what we've seen everything that's happened with ftxs of the world and W and so on and so forth right over the last uh couple of years now all of that has washed through but in the future also things like this might happen and you are better off keeping your money in a platform that's ### [10:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=627s) Keeping crypto funds on local platforms effectively registered with your government so that you can go to the local police station and like file a complaint at least right you can't do things like that because people have the ability to come and file a complaint police complaint against you it is better than a bance which is like sort of a paraya that H I'm saying that basically you have some recourse right like on the one end you want a good product experience Now product experience is basically commoditized everywhere most products are at the same level for example users will be able to do most experiences really well so now it's about trust H and Trust comes with all of these in institions working together right like you otherwise you have to rely and believe that okay binance will do the right thing but it's not really right like it can go wrong that needs to be some set of checks and balances a system is what is now offered with these local entities and that's why it's easier it's a right thing for people to do so in the past uh like let's say 8 10 days since uh this announcement has happened we've effectively grown by 25% uh from an AUM base and it's all in 10 days imagine we've been existing for 6 years so um and I think that was a large moment that will hopefully now uh you know get users to move their funds especially because we are now coming entering into hopefully what is another uh bull phase of the crypto Market where you know generally prices rise and there is excitement and so on and so forth again so I'm not so up to date with crypto but I did read that bance had to pay like a $4 billion fine or something like that ### [11:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=712s) Regulatory Bodies sued Binance yeah so um bance has been under regulatory pressure worldwi right like again you need to think of it from there from the global perspective binance is the largest exchange and it's a beautiful business like it's immensely valuable it works at scale it is probably one of the only businesses in the world that has users from so many different countries at this volume right and binance had a US arm as well so the US SE multiple actually regulatory bodies in the US had sued binance for different things and binance has agreed to settle all of that what via so it's either some format of moneya laundering or some format of C counter terrist financing or some f of some format of tax evasion or some format of uh Securities fraud or some format of lack of Regulatory Compliance so different shapes and forms right and binance has agreed to settle all of those by paying a four4 and a half billion dollar fine and CZ who's the founder and CEO of binance is still undergoing uh trial I think his trial is due for Jan mid as far as I understand um so binance is under a lot of regulatory pressure world over and what binance is I think also deciding is to do is that they want to focus on certain key markets and then grow and scale from there so for example us is a key market for them Europe Mina southeast Asia are key markets for them and they want to pick and choose and fight those battles and I think that's important for everyone right like for every large business you want to pick and choose and your focus Market areas and grow so for example for us at mudre India and EU are good markets and that's where we focus on interesting and you know I've seen bance this happened for to bonance then I've seen it with FTX then we saw it with wal it's like as much as crypto is interesting and I do believe that you know maybe not the coins but the technology is very sound yeah um it also feels like there's just a lot of very high-profile scams SL frauds in the industry right and the question I keep thinking in my head is these people are making money right everyone's making money why the extra why push a little more and try to make some more money and then get in trouble so I think I think that's just the nature of us as humans right like that cycle of greed always comes in crypto is not an outlier to this like we've had the large Ponzi schemes happen world over right and even for that matter it's ### [14:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=852s) Crypto as young asset class not just crypto regulated assets see this actually much more than crypto does is that those checks and balances are put in place so that these things get that noticed and caught which is why in some format or the other regulator is good is that checks and balances checks that needs to be there in the system right that make sure that uh everyone is aligned and is working towards the benefit of the retail investor and not working on their own to maximize their own greed um and then a lot of times there are just stupid mistakes that people do um which is not which are things that people should not be doing like if you are a like for example person who is dealing with other people's money then making sure that money is safe and secure is your number one effectively fiduciary responsibility right and if you are not going to be able to deliver on that then how will anyone trust you for anything beyond that point so I think that is very important plus I think crypto is this unique asset as well where uh most entities that are dealing in crypto are somehow your custodian of wealth somehow enable you to do the transaction and somehow settle these things also and that creates like a system where it that creates a system that can be potentially easily exploited so um you alluded to crypto being like sort of a young asset class do you feel like the ### [15:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=931s) Bitcoin halving impact on price volatility of crypto also comes from it being a young asset class yeah I think it actually does and uh like coinbase has recently published a report where it talks about um how the volatility of let's say Bitcoin and ethereum has been changing andit the volatility of Bitcoin is now at an effectively all-time low and if you look at that chart it's just a straight line down and you can see where it's going also right so as the asset class matures and when we say asset class is mature it means that just more and more people come and participate as liquidity goes up as liquidity goes up volatility comes down it's a natural progression it's just that all of this has happened in crypto in 8 years like the same thing that happened in stocks over 40 years has happened in crypto in 8 years so as a result you see all the Hypes and all the busts as well Happ faster everything compressed everything faster and this asset class is just growing phenomenally so and it's growing at the end of the day because I do believe it's important like asset class is necessary let's keep the ### [16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=990s) Crypto as an uncorrelated asset class technology side aside for a moment from an investment perspective uh it is one of the few asset classes that have emerged over the last few years that did not exist and typically investment managers say that an asset class has emerged when you've got some new asset where you can park your money which is effectively negatively correlated or uncorrelated with the traditional existing asset classes and the existing assets are basically real estate Commodities gold cash and Equity right like effectively these saying it's disconnected from it has to be disconnected from the correct like that if it's connected then you don't really care about it like most people don't invest but crypto is disconnected because it's it has a lot of different properties about it that make it disconnected and because it's disconnected and it becomes attractive for investors to add it as a part of their portfolio because in reality the only free lunch that you get in this world is diversification because if you diversify your assets over a larger basket you can reduce your risk against systemic things that go wrong and effectively make more returns per amount of risk you take uh that's what most wealth managers talk about which is why uh a lot of people have been saying ### [17:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1060s) Bitcoin ETF launch that okay this ETF launch uh that's happened very recently again U will not change a lot of things I AG what the ETF what does ETF mean okay so U what's happened U just over the last few days again is that in the US a 11 different entities have been approved to launch a Bitcoin ET F that means is wasn't that a spoof like somebody had hacked thef no it got hacked one day before the actual announcement so all of this was going on since the last uh 6 months all the applications have been but the entire process took about 8 years like the first attempt to file for a Bitcoin ETF was 8 years ago in the US and it took 8 years for it to get to a point where today 11 ETFs have been launched and they are live and they saw like 4 four and a half 5 billion doar worth of trading on day one U so you know coming back the reason why ETFs matter is because they now let institutions participate into crypto what does ETF stand for it's an exchange traded fund so um we have mutual funds right where you participate in a mutual fund you buy and sell uh basically shares in a mutual fund similar you buy and sell shares in an ETF just roughly the same thing you can think of it as an ETF as a mutual fund only broadly for all for from a retail investor perspective so mutual funds for crypto though yes um it's slightly nuanced because in this case just tracking one asset which is Bitcoin and that's the one asset with which everything starts off and then slowly and steadily builds up later on so with that ETF coming what you get is you get the ability for institutions to participate in crypto which till date was not possible the reason why it was not possible is because handling crypto handling taxation handling uh just the asset itself custody it making sure that you get fair price all of these are fiduciary responsibilities of the fund manager who manages the money of the institution doing all of that is very complicated but once it's an ETF it's just like buying a buying shares of apple right like it's basically the same so now large institutions ETF itself is clean you don't have to deal with all the crypto Parts yeah so get taken care of by the ETF manager they Char can I buy ETFs on ### [19:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1186s) Institutional Crypto services by Mudrex mudre or any you can't but you can buy the actual Bitcoin on mudre having said that we are launching a new service for institutional players to be able to invest in ETFs via mudre institutional Services that's something that we are working on right now can you double click on that what is the mudre institutional services so we've got a like inside of we getor to our retail users as well but a lot of users come to us who have uh demands that they want to buy larger amounts right and for them what would these large amounts roughly be uh anything north of $50,000 so anything north of let's say 3540 lakhs uh is the is basically what a large amount what we categorize as a large amount now these are either individual transactions that they want to purchase or they want to custody their assets they just want help with managing all of this managing taxation how do you file returns and so on and so forth so it's a wi glove handheld service that we offer to these large institutions so that we can help them manage and diversify wait so wait a second so you guys have basically a Services layer also on mudre we're like hey anyone investing more than $50,000 you can come do it with us do the other exchanges also have something like this some of them have it like globally uh people do have it for example coinbase has such wide love Services typically binance also used to have such a wi love service and I think it's a it's not just for mudri right think of it this way that there are portfolio Management Services anyways who help large investors manage there but it's usually not by The Exchange itself right correct it's and and that's why I think mudri is slightly different we offer users access to the actual products but we are not really an exchange ourselves we are a broker uh a broker layer that sits on top and helps users invest what is the Bas exchange uh we use liquidity from a wide variety of sources a lot of exchanges in India a lot of decentralized exchanges a lot of global exchanges and so on and so forth okay so you know here's the part of the part where we go into a little bit of speculative work corre right and everyone watching this is pure speculation right this is me just being curious and kind of digging out insights you're saying Bitcoin ETFs are out uh ### [21:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1303s) Bitcoin and Crypto after ETF Launch it's a big moment for Bitcoin you're saying that all the traditional institutions who want a more higher safety profile are now doing Bitcoin ETFs because it's just easier for the taxation part and just management and filing part what is that going to mean for Bitcoin crypto correct so again so that we can answer this question better about how is 2024 going to look like let's talk about first what's happened over the last couple of years right so what has happened is that the main challenge that crypto was going through was that for broader acceptance it needs a regulatory stamp of approval saying that the government sold over saying that this is okay and that's really what has emerged over the last two years like there is a very clear regulation coming out in Europe in India we've already discussed everything that's happened plus India has pearled this effort with G20 to formalize crypto as an asset uh in the US there are there is the ETF launch that's happened there is a case that's that SEC and coinbase are taking to the Supreme Court to get an answer to how to deal with crypto and so forth so world over regulatory Clarity has emerged or will emerge in most jurisdictions the next couple of months that's one thing and what Clarity does it brings certainty you think regulatory Clarity will also come to India I think it's much clear right again if you look at let me give you an example when the RBI ### [23:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1380s) India and crypto regulation banned crypto three and a half years ago there was a paper that was going on a suggestive paper where there was expected that anyone dealing in crypto would get a 10-e prison sentence so we gone from a 10 year prison sentence to okay come register comply right and this is happened in three years you can you imagine the pace at which it has moved so a lot of people think that regulations are moving slow I actually think that they're moving incredibly fast for for any jurisdiction for that matter and what's the incentive for ### [23:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1410s) Crypto enabling service exports for India India to to legalize crypto it is more tax revenue no yeah I think that's the wrong way of looking at it that means that you're only looking at crypto from an asset class perspective that's actually not the narrative at all which can which I think we can go back and talk about why is crypto actually really important see as more and more goods and services move to the internet and the world becomes more and more a global place what you need for efficient transfer of these goods and services is some mechanism where money also moves in the way the internet moves right and crypto is this money made for the world so what that enables is that let's say people in India creating Services creating goods and so on and so forth selling it world over earning money in a easy and cheap enough way and then reparing it back as Revenue in their books and then paying taxes on it so I see it very differently I see it as an opportunity for the design freelancer who is creating design content for let's say a Swedish entity getting paid in let's say Bitcoin then using that Bitcoin just as an asset if they want to or converting it to Fiat and buying exen milk with it right so it just opens up a new way to of collecting money collecting revenue and that part is the real part where it's important right like the last wave of Internet growth was let's say from the 90s to 2000s was the product creation part India missed completely but the services part we were reasonably good at right like with all the large companies in the country the tcss the vipros the infosis like you look at the Nifty 10 and you'll find all of them there right all the large internet companies in the country are the companies that are servicing the world sitting out of India crypto just enables that same model at insane scale so out yeah it doesn't want to miss out right because think of the India opportunity as well India is the largest english- speaking reasonably talented techsavvy understanding economy in the world right you can literally service the entire world from this country and there are more and more they want as much import to come in the country and crypto is the mechanism yes it's a it's like India is already the largest remittances base in the world right and our people are already world over that's because we go over there and do all the business for them right on the other hand with crypto and with internet blowing up you don't really need to go to a place you can stay in the country build those service and do it and you can and crypto is just one mechanism to collect that payment or one mechanism in which you can get paid fairly for it we can go much more deeper into why it's fairer and so on and so forth but I don't think that's the point of ### [26:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1566s) CBDC as managing the country in better way but here's the thing right like um I did a video on cbdc yeah you know Central Banking uh digital currency right so they're making like a digital rupe and my understanding is the reason they have crypto in it and all of that is to just make international transactions easier I think that's the main this thing of it actually that's not the that's also not true so if you're just talking about payments UPI is the best thing in the world and it is by far the best protocol it scales really well it works really well but UPI is built only for payments the job of a currency and the task of a regulator is actually much more than just payments it is about who that payment should go to which payments are allowed which are not what are rules that are built around that payments and today all of that infrastructure is outside the payments layer it is in systems that people are creating cbdc gets or effectively the hope or the dream is to bring all of those rule making into the payments layer so a very popular example or use case of cbdc is the direct benefit scheme let's say for example the government wants to give uh subsidy to Farmers to buy fertilizers they can year mark money giving out to Farmers that can only be used for fertilizers across these 500 or 50,000 shops that are fertilizer sellers who can then accept this money only for purchase of fertilizers right that makes sure that the subsidy is much more efficiently used and just doesn't get lost away that actually saves the country a lot of money by just making sure things are deficient and I think the purpose of cbdc is more that it gives the government a better way to make sure that their spends are effectively being used and effectively being used in managing and running the country in a much better way UPI is just payments and UPI has to be just payments always because as soon as you blo up the payment stack success rate keeps on dropping experience drops drop failures happen and so on and so forth that's why UPI needs to be payments but there is something that can be built on top that leverages the network UPI has created to efficiently distribute money to people with these rules as to where can it go and where it can it not that's where cbdc is different and it takes like all of cbdc takes encouragement or inspiration from everything crypto basically like all cbtc is it's a private crypto but for the government and at the government scale whereas ethereum or Bitcoin and so on are public blockchains that enable you to do the exact same thing but peer to-peer anywhere in a separate Network interesting you let's go back to the ### [28:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1711s) Bitcoin Speculation speculation piece right sorry how's Bitcoin going to do this yeah so you completely missed that uh so going back there um so we have these regulations in place right U the second thing that's happening is that uh along with these regulations the opening up of ETFs gets a lot of institutional Capital into crypto or potentially and let's talk about the numbers over here for a minute because this is the numbers podcast right um institutional wealth in the US just in the US is about $ 35 to $40 trillion uh most asset managers are of this opinion that you should allocate one and a half let's say let's give or take one and a half to 3% of your net wealth into crypto or for that matter Bitcoin right now for it to be an effective Optimum uh diversification piece right which means that about let's say about 2% of $30 trillion is about 600 billion $600 billion is a large number and it's not expected that all of this money will come in today it's comes over let's say two and a half three years as slowly and steadily more and more people get warmed up to the idea right but let's say even a tenth of this comes in the in the first six odd months is let say $60 billion coming in that itself is a very large volume of inflow of capital that comes in that will be larger than the net inflow of capital that has come in the last three and a half years in crypto so we can understand the magnitude that we are talking about and I think the third thing that's happening is something called as uh a Bitcoin Haring event Bitcoin is something that has very fixed Supply and the only way Bitcoins more Bitcoins are generated is by a process called as mining a Bitcoin uh now every four years or so the number of Bitcoins that get given out via the mining process go to half which is why it call as a Haring event which means that Supply of Bitcoin reduces on the other hand we see that we expect that the demand goes up because of everything opening up for institutions retail as well because of regulatory Clarity so Supply goes down demand goes up which means that in reality prices should move up that's what most of us expect as well U we expect that over 24 we should see uh BTC reaching newer highs of course there will be volatility I'm not saying that it won't go down in the period as well but we expect it to go up there and then continue to move ahead interesting and ### [30:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1859s) Crypto market cycles what how does that triple effect on the other coins um so historically first BTC goes up then that money moves to eth alt coins and then it just Cycles back to BTC and that's basically people being greedy greedier and uh greediest but tell me one thing I have a question ### [31:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=1878s) How Mudrex Deals with hyped coins right I mean from what I heard is that you know Bitcoin ethereum they Blue Chip right they're like hey these are blue chip these are like everyone's backing You Know Jack dorsy everyone's pretty vocal about it right and then you have a bunch of coins that you feel are going to be the next big ones right like your polygon and your Solana and all the others and then there's a bunch of coins below which go everything from whichever controversy happened there'll be a coin named after it right so the public market word for this is coins yeah so how does mutre deal with this thing do you have a yeah so I think U so for so for example there are we do a lot on the side of education on the platform um so you talked about Blue Chip assets we've got a index product called as coin setes U where we have where our most popular index is this index called as crypto Blue Chip where the top five really valued tokens are there and it's in the allocation of market cap and so forth making it just really easy for users to invest then what we also do apart from this is just categorize all tokens make sure that all information about it is publicly available so we recently about three odd months ago launched this new product called as mudre insights where the intent was that uh typically in stocks what you have is a fundamental analysis a technical analysis uh and going deeper into buying a particular asset right the same thing actually does exist in crypto just the nature of it is different like how you should evaluate a token fundamentally is different from stocks because in stocks you would look at cash flow statements in crypto community and how much comments are coming in on their GitHub repository or at what rate is the project going right so there are markers it's just that they are different it's because it's a different world right like the same analogies don't apply so we've uh so we've launched this product called as mrex insights where we give users this information about okay are these tokens fundamentally sound or not and new tokens yeah for and we support about 350 tokens so we've got this rating for about 200 of them and for the rest 150 we just say there is no fundamental analysis so please don't invest uh like if you want to just make sure that you do it with caution do the same thing with technical analysis we give an analysis of where the price might headche what you think as an exchange you should be putting your foot down and saying there's no fundamentals behind this we're not want to have them on the platform yeah we used to do it we in fact a lot and we still do it to give you some context there are maybe about 2,000 tokens we list a very small sub subset of them and what we look at is what is just general volume what is information around it is there a sound basis for it or not you have a research team doing this yeah we ### [33:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2035s) Mudrex's research reports on crypto do in house that does this in fact uh every Tuesday we publish something called as the crypto Market Outlook report that talks about uh how what are the most important things that are shaping up uh in the crypto space over the next week and that's I think our most read publication that our users effect like one week I remember we missed out publishing it because I think it was Diwali or something like that and I got a ton of emails saying that why is this report not out like I really enjoy reading it right like and that's the value that we create interesting and ### [34:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2066s) Mudrex's Ratings for different cryptocurrencies these ratings that you have on the platform right in general like I would say a Bitcoin would be a f star rating yeah U so coins that are dubious if there's a one star rating or like one and a half star rate I don't know how you guys rate it I don't know if you have the half or let's say one star rating is there like proven lower activity because of that actually not and the rating and that have nothing to do with each other right like we see a lot of small cap stocks who are L poorly rated but have very high activity on them so activity has nothing to do with rating because activity is just greed fear how people think hype around things and so on and so forth in crypto they don't care people really don't care if you put a onear rating on something no I wouldn't say that people don't care it's a part of their thinking process decision- making process but those are risks that people are willing to take at the end of the day everyone has their own assessment right uh like personal finance trading investing is all about everyone making their own Assessments in their mind about what they want to do and it's there in the part of their risk metrics is as that they value that less versus the potential upside that they might be able to make you know that's a very interesting insights like a lot of people are like hey we should just ban crypto right and even though I'm not like right now the biggest fan of crypto I feel like there are these two sides right there's a side that's like I don't like this I don't understand it we should ban it and there's the other side that well at least you should be given the light of day I'm I'm of that side right at least she should been given the light of day people should be allowed to make their own decision decisions but it's just it's quite interesting to see that despite the fact that you put a rating people will still make a decision and that's the question right do you think people are too stupid to make their own decisions but at the same time you expect them to vote and okay let's let talk about it in a different manner you've seen all the chocolate bars on shelves in a supermarket yeah you turn it around you see the calorie rating you see the value that it has in most cases it does not make any sense for most people to eat anything in a packaged box that has a lot of sugar right it's downright bad for their health yeah people still do it yeah so rating does not mean people won't do it it's about making that informed Choice yeah and that informed choice I think is really important that I agree with that you shouldn't just blanket ban something if you feel like you can also give people informed Choice uninformed choice is bad but if you can give people an informed choice I think it's it makes sense yeah so I think and that's what I think our perspective is different so if you like we believe that most platforms or most because again the asset class is nent all of this information is very scattered and for most platforms early on just focused on getting people the ability to get them to buy and sell we actually think that okay getting the ability to buy and sell is fine that's a commoditized product the real value is how do you distill out all of this information in on the internet make it easily accessible and consumable by the user so that they can make those choices and then help them stop them from doing the wrong choices as well in certain cases so that's what we do so for example in some cases we've got the a high-risk Banner that comes up with tokens saying that okay this is not something that you should do um we recently launched an options product in crypto and over there we don't allow people to invest large sums of money we have daily limit ### [37:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2262s) Importance of doing own research in crypto percentage of the product work is just warning and Analysis oh about half of it I would say it's really half of it like research is core to us we because I think that's important that's an important fraction um that'll help people understand what are they doing in crypto and again I'll tell you an example of or an analogy of why this is important see the reason why doing your own research is important and I'm pretty sure you would have heard this term right do your own research before investing in anything like even the mutual fund ads say mutual funds are subject to Market risk you should read the offer document carefully before uh choosing to invest right the reason why doing your own research is important is because you don't want to regret the choice you made later irrespective of what happens because at the end of the day it's no one can predict where things will happen so if you give the users the ability to do their own research better and if they make those choices with confidence then I think it's a much better space to be in but the problem with money is you feel like you've gone and done your research and made a choice and then when you lose money it still feels bad yeah of course it feels bad and of course one of the hardest problems to solve right that's why 97% of Traders lose money very few people make money so for most people of course the right thing to do is just park your money do regular Sip and make that long-term wealth just do recording sips and that's the best thing for most people some people can choose to do trading in some cases if you have if you think you have some information asymmetry you can choose to use that at your advantage and trade for the longer run all of this is true for all asset classes not just crypto so the asset class is the same the users mentality is the same what they want is the same just that it's a new form new format new function and will evolve slight differently at a much more rapid Pace simply because it's Global available everywhere at the same time to everyone and moving at this ### [39:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2373s) Crypto taxation in India rapid Pace okay I have one more question right and this is for laymen watching what's the effective tax rate in India on crypto let's say I'm using mudre or any other platform right uh I've put in 1,000 rupees I've invested let's say one lakh and it's gone to two lakhs let's say I've had a good time some coin has gone up uh how much tax do I pay and how do I actually file this correct so uh let's say what something at 1 lakh you sold it at 2 lakh you've taken money back to your bank account when you take you'll typically pay a 1% TDS uh and at in March when you file your Returns the gains that you made so that one lakh went to 2 lakh so you made one lakh a gains 30% of that you will pay as taxes which is pretty standard for any gains that you make in general the 1% that you paid is offset against that 30% tax that you file later on got it but wasn't there like a some new tax or something that everyone is going crazy about you pay some 20% and I might be slightly out of the loop but there was some tax thing around crypto that people are getting angry about so the part that people are angry about is the 1% TDS so for example when you do any transactions in equities you P has 0. 1 0. 01% St it's a very small amount so it's non noticeable and most Brokers do deducted uh this is 1% in cryptos it's a large amount that shrunks that shrinks the rate at which people do transactions that's the one part that's annoying the other part also that's annoying is that unlike equities you can't offset gains in crypto versus losses in crypto so gains are you pay tax on losses it's your fault um so oh but in the stock market you can offset it right I'm by the way I'm a stock market Noob yeah so in the stock market you can offset gains versus losses um in fact you can also carry forward losses to Futures to a future date so that you can offset it for future gains that's also something that you can do you can't do that in crypto no you can't do it in crypto so if you lose if you win you pay tax yeah that's correct and uh also in the stock markets there is something called as a long-term capital gains and a short-term capital gains that's also of course not applicable in crypto the long-term capital gains and short-term capital gains actually uh was a key driver to a lot of growth in the stock markets for people to buy and hold yeah to it's an incentive to invest in the long run paint a success case for your ### [41:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2509s) Mudrex's vision for success company like uh paint a case where everything goes right over the next 3 4 years for mrex where do you get okay so I think our perspective of mudre is slightly different we think that crypto is a financial services enabler and financial services is basically wealth savings Insurance credit payments and so on and so forth and we are right now at the wealth and saving space that's one part so you out of crypto no all of this will happen necessarily in crypto cryp I think that crypto is a much more efficient way of doing and offering financial services and just that as this efficiency increases more and more people will enter the second part is crypto is a global asset class it's one of the only truly Global asset classes maybe after gold that exist so all and as an outcome of that because investing and dealing with money is such a global problem as well problem of people are problems of people are the same world over like when we talk to our users in Italy and bandi most of their problems are actually very similar like what do I do with money how do I invest where should I park my funds how do I make it grow and so on and so forth right their problems are really similar so success case for mudre is becoming This Global platform that can allow users to invest in crypto in a way where they are confident with their investing choices and can help them grow their wealth and make money that's where we want to get to and what's the failure case I think ### [43:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2587s) Failure case for Mudrex one thing that's on podcast that's really never spoken about everyone's very optimistic right but one thing I've learned about the world is things can burn and things can die like and that's true for every company and a lot of people in the comments sometimes I see them like commenting on konal Sha like your company is going to fail this that actually most smart Founders have already baked into their model that these are the failure cases for me right and they're doing it despite that despite the fear of knowing that one day it might die so what's the failure case for you no I think the simplest failure case is that everything shuts down right and the government just gets angry H it gets shut down and if here we just do it in another Geo it's not the first time that we'll be doing it again we're a six-year-old company interestingly mudre started out uh way back in 2018 we started in and like just 3 4 days ago was our uh you know six year anniversary so we started on January 12th we launched our first product on the 6th of April 2018 which was a crypto trading platform in India and on 15th of April RBI banned crypto in the country right so it's not the first time we'll get banned in the country we'll just move base effectively so I have one last question around crypto this for myself right so I've dabbled in a little bit of crypto I'll buy I'll sell a few weeks later etc right it's like I'm too driven by news and information and then I realized this probably the best for me like today my best investment is FD right I'm I come from that safety class in crypto and stuff like nfts I dabbled in nfts for a while because I was like let me learn about this I feel like anything new that comes out I want to play with it and learn about it at least that's my due diligence to that thing right and if it's based on technology like you know uh sound technology then it's worth you know playing around with correct ### [44:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2689s) How individuals can stay invested in long term okay so I have one last question on crypto okay I know a lot of people that have invested and then they hear some news that this is going up or this is going down and then they sell or you've invested in Bitcoin you've put in whatever $5,000 or let's say two three lakhs and then tomorrow you wake up and it's one lakh yeah you get the stress that oh it might go to 20,000 rupees I might as well sell now so there's a word for this right they're called paper hands people who just immediately sell when there's any sign of panic yeah um I find it exceptionally hard to meet anybody who's bought crypto and is in there for the long run as soon as they see that you know that graph go so far down which is not normal with any other stock right the volatility here is too high how do you stay invest in the long term is that even a necessary thing is this a like do you would you prefer to trade like how should you do it no at least the way at least I think of it is that uh see if you are participating in crypto you participating in crypto from this lens that okay this is a new asset class that's emerging and as a result a lot of wealth will created will get created in the long run that's that should be our thinking if ideally what happens today tomorrow and so on and so for should not matter I say should not but it does we'll come to does in a minute so as a result if that's the thinking what you should be doing is just adding funds regularly in some regular interv like sip types yes so for most people who want to invest in crypto the who come and ask me okay I want to participate in crypto what do you expect what do you advise me to do I would recommend that start off with putting in really small amounts get comfortable with it over a couple of weeks and then if you are still okay with everything that's happening in terms of volatility just set up a simple sip that does the same recording by either every week or every month and then forget about it that's the same standard advice that works across asset classes the volatility in crypto was the same volatility that effectively stock markets used to have in the Indian stock market early 2000s right and that volatility of course is scary it's scary to anyone and the real way to think about is that if okay if you're committing into adding small amounts over a long run and thinking of it only from that longterm long-term perspective then I think it's fine then you're expectations are really correctly set but if your expectations are I'm putting in money today and I expect 200% returns in 2 weeks then you should be okay with it going to zero in two weeks as well is what I would recommend and in that case I would genuinely recommend people to not enter into crypto at all you are better off buying a lottery somewhere else yeah and this is what I like about you right like your pretty clear about technically who your customer should be and who your customer shouldn't be because I also know that the people who come in and probably invest and lose all their money are going to be a pain to you because for whatever reason or the other they probably email you or text you and be like yo I lost my money what are you going to do about it yeah and it's hard right like the only way you can solve for that is okay let us help you let us help educate you more let us help you understand how this works and financial literacy is in very early stage for General investing leave alone crypto so as more financial literate people come in as financial literacy grows and a lot of cases people don't learn by reading right like they learn by their own experiences so the market takes its own fees by these uh by all of these losses and uh experiences that you go through that helps you become better and you would rather do that early on in your life when you are young and are able to understand the Dynamics rather than when you old interesting wow that was interesting I learned a lot more about crypto like I'm I would say I'm leaving slightly more hopeful than I started out with and I think that I'm glad that in India at least it's in good hands right from whatever this conversation I had and what I know I mean I know you're off screen so um I'm glad that it's in good hands people who actually care about because we've had a string of like really bad actors come and screw up the industry so thank you so much for doing it the right way and I hope you know uh over the next few years you continue to do it the right way right so yeah do you have any parting ### [48:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmA2vOMkifU&t=2932s) Parting words for audience on understanding crypto before investing words for the audience how should they think about cryp how should they this asset class in their life Al so I think uh the way you should think of this asset class is that uh it is going to be a part of your life over a longer period there are just too many uh people pushing for its existence that it's going to be a there today it's going to be there like 10 years from now 20 years from now as well um you can choose to decide whether you want to participate in it now or whether you can want to participate it in later and along with that choice what you also need to make sure is that you are choosing the right Partners to participate it in with right U and I would make sure that I would at least request people to make sure that they go with partners that are compliant that are there for their journey and start participating with small small uh amounts so that they can slowly and steadily build wealth up do not think of this as a way of getting 200 300% returns uh in a few weeks or in a few months uh if someone is advertising something that's too good to be true it probably is not so always take that you know thumb rule Maxim and go ahead from there and for everyone in the audience listening these are my words that I'm adding on to it if you're buying something make sure you do your own research and if you feel it's complicated or you don't understand it don't invest please don't invest as much as you know it will be like why are you saying don't invest it's my kind of job to tell you that if you don't understand it or you feel like you're not the right fit don't do it no it's actually my job also to say the same thing if you do not understand it or if you've heard about something by some mamaa on some random whatsa group and you tempted to put in money in it please don't it'll just hurt um and it'll just not have the right expectations so don't do it awesome thank you so much for coming on thanks a lot B my pleasure so ladies and gentlemen that was I learned a lot from that conversation I learned about ETFs I learned about everything that's going on in crypto which you know I was sort of out of the cycle or out of the loop on and I think that the technology behind this is very sound and for me it's a continuous cycle of learning and you know I think over the next 3 four years crypto is going to be part of our Lives whether we hate it whether we love it it's going to be there and I think like ID said right it is better to give people an informed decision and the ability to either buy or not buy and for it to be there instead of us saying hey let's just completely ban this asset class and be like pretend like it doesn't exist while the rest of the world is okay with it and they're continuing to make money off it right gain tax out of it and Etc so I think it's good for the economy that an asset class like this exists it is a riskier asset class and for most of you if you're confused if you're like I shouldn't do this you shouldn't do this right so that's it for me bye-bye --- *Источник: https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/12364*