# The Golden Zone of Business Automation [#05 Jack Roberts]

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** n8n
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CclEqPDwZGE
- **Дата:** 31.10.2025
- **Длительность:** 49:07
- **Просмотры:** 2,014
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/15209

## Описание

In this engaging conversation, Dylan and Jack Roberts explore the world of AI and automation, focusing on the importance of understanding AI fundamentals, the significance of simplicity in automation, and the mindset required for success. They discuss common pitfalls, effective workflows, and the role of AI in creating human connections. Jack emphasizes the need for businesses to adopt an AI-first approach and shares insights on how to get started with automation, highlighting the value of community and continuous learning.

00:00 Introduction & Why AI-First Businesses Win
00:17 Building AI Systems & Agent Visibility
00:44 Meet Jack – Background & Approach to No-Code
01:22 How to Get Started with AI & No-Code
02:34 The Magic Moment: First AI Automation
03:17 Prompt Engineering & System Prompts
05:11 Breaking Down Complex Workflows
07:15 Common Pitfalls & Mindset for Beginners
09:06 Overcoming Roadblocks: Mindset & Tactics
11:00 Community, Support, and Learning from Errors
12:18 Most Co

## Транскрипт

### Introduction & Why AI-First Businesses Win []

If you want to win as a business, you need to be an AI first business. One dilemma a lot of businesses have. Is it worth me learning or should I pay somebody to do it? You should learn how to do the basics. As the leader, you should be the most AI savvy person in the organization. How do I do that? You can use AI infrastructure now to build systems. The

### Building AI Systems & Agent Visibility [0:17]

craziest bit for me when I started using N10 was the AI agent side of things. Being able to see what the agent was doing as it went along. If you spend a bit of time just figuring out what Naden is doing. If you can understand how the data flows through this workflow, you kind of get a grasp of all these other systems working together in tandem. And I now know what the roadblocks are because there's going to be a little error out on a section in the node. I don't need to be a hyper technical person to

### Meet Jack – Background & Approach to No-Code [0:44]

actually solve these problems. Hey Jack, welcome to the podcast, brother. So stoked to have you on the NN podcast. I love your content on YouTube and it's a pleasure to have you here. — Thank you sir. Much appreciated. Great to be here. Yeah, man. I was, you know, watched some of your videos. I love the content. You got this free flowing style and I think you're really good at like taking these kind of like technical concepts and just bringing it down to like a human understanding level. I mean, is that something that you've curated over time or is that just something that just your personality? — Dude, that's a good question. I think I'm not a coder. I don't have a technical background. I actually had a startup before I started doing YouTube content. I had to hire a CTO on who managed the technical stuff. And the

### How to Get Started with AI & No-Code [1:22]

cool thing about like where we're at with NAN and no code today is that I wouldn't need to do that again if I started today. So when I learn this like no code stuff and we did some of that my last startup is like I have to learn it from somebody who doesn't have a coding background. So I explain it as it kind of makes sense to me. So probably a lot of coders are like Jack what the hell is he talking about when I was getting started but like yeah I think because I come from that background for me it's just a little bit easier to I just explain it the way that makes sense to me. — That's awesome. Yeah, and you're right like there's kind of like a like a black belt trying to teach a white belt. They might be forgetting some things at that like high level, but like when you're looking at in I think a lot of people feel like I need to be a master coder. I need to go through and I need to understand all forms of programming language to [clears throat] get started. — Like what are you seeing in people picking up and adopting Nadin? Like what do they really need to know to get started and actually start getting real value from the system? Yeah. So the very first thing is starting with AI fundamentals. You kind of want to understand things like prompt engineering and like how does a large language model work like next token predictions just get a little bit of knowledge on a lot of AI stuff. We call it like the T-shape like some breadth some depth. So kind of just potter

### The Magic Moment: First AI Automation [2:34]

around a little bit and get your basics. Then when it comes to NHM I would say the most important thing is to keep it super simple to get started. like just build an AI agent that does one really simple thing and just get it working because I think one of the coolest things with AI automation is that like magic moment you get when the very first scenario starts working. So if you're a complete beginner, focus on something really simple and just get it working and then just slowly bit by bit make it more complicated over time. — Yeah, man. And it almost feels like you like I don't know you're in some fantasy land and you discover some sort of magical power and you like you open up this like inn magical book and you're like ooh I can I can make a fireball or something like that. What was like your magic moment with in

### Prompt Engineering & System Prompts [3:17]

was there a moment that you're like oo I can do this. — Dude to be honest the craziest bit for me when I started using N10 was the AI agent side of things and honest it was just being able to see what the agent was doing as it went along. like actually seeing the cogs turning, seeing it cool and reach over different tools and bring it back. I was like that's really cool. Like it solves the visibility problem just like Uber, right? Like the problem Uber really solved was the waiting anxiety of what's it kind of doing behind the scenes. Like you know when they're coming, you know what it's doing and then the fact you could go behind and see all the different like errors and stuff or like if it did go wrong, what was actually going on. So for me it was it's definitely the agent. Ironically, it's also the most visual visually it's a visual peak of the platform too, right? seeing all the kind of things that things are going. So yeah, for me I think it was the agents when I got started. Man, — that's cool, man. And yeah, I know we just created that new feature that multi- aent swarm kind of thing. So instead of like hopping from like sub node to subnode to sub node, you can actually see this like giant map of everything moving around and all the things happening and it going back and forth and it's almost like you're kind of feel like you're almost like peeking in on a private conversation of a company, right? And you see everybody talking to each other. I'm just like sitting there eating manila cookies just going m look at this. What's going on here? What do you got? Oh, — I got to do it. Yeah. — Like what about in terms of like the prompt engineering behind it? Like do you have any like philosophies around like system prompts or like making prompts and like being able like to train up the AI on doing stuff and or things? — Oh, dude, that's a good question. I'd love to know what your thoughts are on this as well. Pro prompt engineering is one of those things where like getting it to 80% is actually relatively easy. And then you'll always find when you deploy things either you sell it to clients or to businesses is it's very easy to get your minimal level of product but if you want to go from like 80 to 95 or 95 to 97 you're talking hours of iteration and testing um really to make sure you get the kind of like

### Breaking Down Complex Workflows [5:11]

absolute prompt that you need to. So that should always be expected that you're going to have to iterate. key thing is like context like what you wanted to act as in your system message is really important and the bit that most people forget which would be good like write it down a takeaway people is give it examples of what great looks like and not great looks like so like this is an example of the kind of thing you'd get this is three examples of like what I kind of want and actually here's three examples of what I don't want and like that's a really easy thing you can just add in that will like drastically improve the quality of it — yeah man I totally agree with you like on the points of like giving it examples and if you think about it I always think of it as like a you know if you're a boss that runs a company and you said hey you know go get me leads or whatever certain thing and it doesn't do it like why aren't you reading my mind and I think that's that kind of like okay — what's your overview you know what's your SOPs I like to feed it SOPs right like yeah you know if you're if you're going to be whatever uh send a message to Betty then you're going to want to like go to their website pull the data you're going to want to do then she'll like different patterns ofh behavior for different SOPs I think is really important. And then not like trying not to get like one agent to do like a 100,000 different things. — Oh dude. Yeah. 100%. Is it's like dude they're like 200 IQ interns. They're like really stupid super intelligent agents basically. Do you know what I mean? You have to but dude you know that point you made about not having one agent to do it all. This isn't Lord of the Rings. It's not like one ring to them all. It's like as the complexity of your workflow scales, so should the agents doing it. Like the more granular you can make the task, the higher the performance is going to be because the classic example isn't it like you know even if you take like writing a blog like if you had one even if you just take chat GBT for example if you're talking to him it's going to be really crap at writing your 2,000word essay but if one agent's job is to hey create the outline second one is write the intro like the quality goes up significantly. So it's you're right it's such a good hack man. — Yeah it's so funny because it's such a powerful tool. It's kind of like a I heard someone say this like a baby with a chainsaw

### Common Pitfalls & Mindset for Beginners [7:15]

— right? It's like you just you have all this power and you just don't know quite on how to control it. And if you — what I've seen and like I'd love to get your thoughts around this is I think the people that have been like the most successful they're really good to go like depth of thought, right? They can like break down get really clear on exactly what they want to build before they just start hopping in and like just doing stuff and things inside the system, right? instead of just building, they're like, "Okay, I'm going to go and like do a write up or do a mirror board or something like that. " Like, do you have like a process or like some sort of thing for like if you're going to make something complex, how do you go from like — big shiny idea that might be overwhelming to actually something that's producable in it in — Yeah, absolutely. Actually, I also want to talk about the question behind that as well, which is uh why build? Why should I be building this? which is I think the first question I would love people to ask is like because if you're looking at it from like a personal productivity point of view, a business point of view or you're selling it, it's kind of like am I solving the right problem? Because the thing that can happen really easy with technical stuff and you know this right you've seen all the guys is you go down a rabbit hole that you don't need to like is it are you solving the right problem. So assuming that you are you're building to solve the right problem, the first thing that I always look at is um what is the outcome I want ultimately? Like what is the thing I want to happen? Is it a spreadsheet with 10 things that give me X? Like that is the very first thing that I start with. After I've looked at that, I think cool. My next question is well what information does it need to give me that thing? Right? So I've got the output I want the input it needs and then after you kind of get like a sense of like what is the most complex part of this integration that this kind of lynch print mean some really complicated call or some real you know multi-layered structure or something and what I tend to I usually build it from left to right but then I just focus in on and zoom in on what the most complicated thing is and I tend to complete it on two phases. One is build it to get it

### Overcoming Roadblocks: Mindset & Tactics [9:06]

working. So like I'm seeing water come out the pipes. I'm like okay. And then phase two is how do I make the quality of that water as ace as possible and I will optimize it to a point where I think it's reached the level I'm like okay this is giving me the quality I need. Uh usually that's around 85 90% of performance output because to get that last 10% you know I I'd be chained to my desk for like 24 hours a day like optimizing it. [snorts] Yeah. a little bit of expectation management with there. But I like it because you're talking about basically if you want to get started, reverse engineer success, right? Figure out what do you want, then get the pipe flowing, then zoom in, then zoom in on like what do I think is going to be the the biggest roadblock to that success and then start drilling in to try to solve that problem, right? — Absolutely, dude. Yeah. — Yeah. That's really neat. And I like that. I like that process. And you think about it cuz then because then you can start to make each one of those steps. It feels like you're making progress versus you try to build a giant complicated system. Nothing works and you don't feel like you're going anywhere, but you're like, "Okay, I got step one, you know, outcome. Step two flow, step three, you know, initial issue. " I really dig that. What have you seen is like people just getting in because I mean you bring you run a community. You have a lot of people coming in that like maybe have no technical confidence, right? And you know I came from the background like I wasn't technical when I got started and I slowly iterated through it. But what have you seen as like people that have that going from nothing to actually getting value with using it in like what has been like the common pathways or tripfalls that they could come across when they're trying to get from just getting started to producing value with the system? — Yeah. The biggest pitfalls I think that's good. I think the biggest pitfall I think it's like if you had like a curve right like a graph of like never used it to like power user it can kick ass and use it all the time. The first one is not getting started like seeing these things but never actually just like downloading it or you soft hosting or just like so number one is just get started. The first one is like failing at the first hurdle and I think this is like a mindset thing where like

### Community, Support, and Learning from Errors [11:00]

something doesn't go wrong and you can't understand why that's like you're never going to get rid of that like process. There's always going to be at some point something that tests to limits your knowledge and you should embrace that as what a cool learning opportunity this is. I'm going to figure it out because you're going to need that skill. Uh with anything you do of any value of significance. So I think the first mindset stuff is there is going to be stuff that you don't get and that's completely cool. You'll figure it out. So I'd say like that mindset stuff is really important and then there's loads of like mini little um you know technical bits that they get stuck into. Um, but generally speaking, I think if you kind of start with the simple stuff and actually, you know, use tools to figure out what's going wrong, you can screenshot your workflow and chat with AI and say, "Hey, this is the desired outcome I want and this is the error I'm getting. What am I missing? " You know, or like speak to people that you know or in communities and will help you get there. So, I think if you follow those general principles, you'll generally do okay. But the main thing is people saying, "I can't get it working. I give up. " Like just it's normal part of the process and completely standard. — Yeah, that's really true. It's a whole threshold guardian of like how much do you really want to make this thing work? And one of the things that you highlighted which is really interesting is the fact that okay one like how much time have you put in you want to be a master guitar player all right how many hours how

### Most Common AI Automation Workflows [12:18]

many hours you clock it in like okay I download a template I try to connect it I put in five minutes this thing doesn't work right it's like going to the gym one time being like you know gyms don't work — and I'm wondering like what I want to be really curious on this is you talked about this like when I hit this hurdle you're talking about there's two things there's mindset and there's tactics so the mindset is like when I get said feeling of thing not working, what does this mean in terms of my story? So that thing is like I'm bad, I'm wrong, I'm a failure or this thing doesn't work, it's never going to work or oh this means I'm growing and this is an evolution, right? So that's like one piece of the mindset. The other one I want to drill in a little bit is tactics like you talked about talking to chat GBT or asking AI when you hit those roadblocks, what are some like go-to successful patterns of overcoming those roadblocks when you do face them? That is a really good question. Well, I think obviously I would say community because that's like really good to have like thousands of other builders that you can be like, "Hey, I'm struggling with this. How do I figure it out? " And get those answers. If you're self-s serving it, um the first thing I would always look at is um like the error message itself. Like first of all, have I made some kind of am I even using the right thing? You can find yourself sometimes I guess I'm speaking to someone who like struggles some stuff technically here going down a rabbit hole. you don't actually need to

### Using AI for Lead Generation & Content [13:38]

go down. Like there could just be a way simpler way of doing the thing that you want to do. Um but also like don't despise the rabbit hole because it's in those rabbit holes that we learn how to do things. Like I've learned some of the best features of NAN actually going and exploring in the early days and kind of like having fun and figuring things out and you know that's really valuable in itself. terms of your toolkit, it's basically it. I wish it was more complicated than this, but like actually just screenshotting it and they're talking to AI or basically just look at the error message and read it. I find this quite a lot. People say, "Hey, this isn't working. " And then the screenshot I see on the error message it says, "Hey, you didn't do this really simple thing. We actually do. " I'm like, "Oh, it says right there. Just change this thing. " And oh, okay, cool. So, like reading, I wish it was more complicated, but like reading what it says about — the secret. Yeah, reading. I know. Uh we live in a world like we're shifting a lot away from blogs and more to like YouTube content because I'm like hey can you just show me what you're doing on that thing I but if you just take a pause and go okay all right first of all you know don't p don't panic you know just keep calm and look at the errors okay what's the error do I can I solve this AI is there another pattern I can use is there a buddy I can reach out to a community I can go to is there some other thing that I can figure out as somebody else already solved this that I could learn from. Right. It sounds like these are a couple of the ones that were kind of like, you

### Marketing, Sales, and Real-World Use Cases [15:02]

know, choose your adventure on how you want to get past this obstacle. — Oh, yeah. And there's also so many like YouTube tutorials on an etern or anything that you can go and Google. Typically, if you Google it, there's probably a video of some guy saying, "Hey, I freaking had the same issue and I just solved it. Watch this freaking video. " I know there should almost certainly be a video on it as well. — Yeah. In terms of like I mean because you're I mean you have your finger on the pulse of a lot of this. You're constantly, you know, looking at content. you're making content, you run a community, all that jazz. What have you seen out as like some like super like either inspiring or common workflow processes that you see your community or other people making? — So, when you say workflow processes, do you mean like how people are creating workflows? — No, that's a good question. That's not actually what I meant. I meant in terms of like what workflows like you know lead generation system or uh a data tracking invoice system. — Okay, cool. The biggest problem sets that I see people using NN for in my world is hey how can I use this um to kind of get more customers or what do I need to do in NA10 to sell to a business is generally the kind of things um almost all of them revolve around so I call this like uh the AI sort of automation operating system these four components and if you imagine you have AI like chat GPT claude Gemini you have no code which is NA10 you know make

### Focusing on What Works & Avoiding Distractions [16:21]

zapia and then you have two of The bottom one is databases. Uh that's things like air table, could be Google sheets, whatever you want to superbase. And then in the bottom right we have front end which is stuff like bolt lovable. So this idea that you can combine these four things together to make something really super magical. Most of what you see people using nan like in my what I what I'm saying is that it's generally some kind of scraper. So you're kind of taking and repurposing information to do one thing to give an output. I you know you're scraping a thousand Instagram profiles or you're scraping a load of email addresses and you're doing some kind of AI intelligence to it. You're kind of processing it somehow. You're enriching it. You're creating an asset. You're creating a piece of content written media or whatever it is and then you're pushing it somewhere either into a database or directly into social media. Some combination of that data in process product out I'd say accounts for most of the stuff I think. Yeah, that makes sense because I mean right now, you know, being able to hook up like

### The Power of Focus & Saying No [17:21]

ampify is an amazing technology to be able to like scrape and gather data and then you transform that data and you do whatever you want to do to it, you know, whether you're reaching out to people, you're adding some things into a list, you're being able to then maybe getting some insights of like pulling content down. And so that makes a ton of sense because I mean AI is really data driven. So like you need to feed AI something in order to give you something back, right? And so where do we get that something from? And scraping is usually is usually the source of it. I'm I I totally get it from like the, you know, trying to get leads for my business or doing something like that. I'd be really curious on like the marketing front. I've seen a lot of people talk about using like in it in for like marketing like making content or repurposing content, but I don't see a lot of people actually besides those crazy gorilla v3 videos that are pretty funny. Have you ever seen anybody using like in workflows that actually apply it to like for actual marketing channels like making like LinkedIn posts or any of the other things? — Yeah, definitely. It's used a lot

### Theory of Constraints & High-Leverage Activities [18:25]

for creating different content. I think so if you think about AI automations, the biggest mistake an AI automator makes is to automate a process that shouldn't really exist. So, for example, I want to send out a thousand emails to a thousand people, but the thing you're sending isn't great. So, you've just kind of amplified something that doesn't work. So, realistically, it's about finding the winning formula that works. And what and AI allow you to do is scale what already works. So, if you found that you can create resonant posts, awesome. Now, let's find how we amplify that using this technology. But most people just amplify stuff that doesn't work and that's kind of where they fall down. — You know, I was it was so funny. I just hosted a San Diego meet up yesterday and a guy who's in he does sales, right? He works as a sales director for a company and I'm like and he's like I want to get used in. I'm like what do you want to do it for? He's like marketing and these other things. And I was like what do you do? Said sales. And I was like okay. I said, "So, it's going to be just a little bit of a struggle if like if you don't know init, you don't know marketing and you're trying to figure out how to do init, you don't code, you marketing is. " I'm like, "Well, what's working? " He's like, "Cold calls and conversations and these type of I was like, "Okay, so if that's the case, what if we use NAN to kind of analyze your conversations, looked at like objections, what's, you know, how people overcome those objections and then pulling out the data of what's working and then looked at the metrics of sales and going, "Hey, can we bump this like conversion rate of what you normally do to reach out to people up from say 5% to say 8% using this type of thing versus trying to use a new technology with a new outreach method and [clears throat] then and then you kind of get like stuck on things. " Have

### Building Internal AI Teams vs. Consultants [20:06]

you seen people like where you're trying to you cuz you keep talking about I've noticed the pattern of like does this even need to be exist? Should we delete this thing or should we just focus on what works? Like could you have any stories or use cases of people like hey man you kind of like nudge them into the direction that you think would actually provide value? — Yeah, you know that was really beautifully said Matt. So it's very easy to get to the point where the tail is wagging the dog where it's let's use the techn like the thing is this right like what you work on is really more important than how hard you work on something. Like if you had a tax a task and everyone watching this podcast right now has an outcome they want somewhere right they want an intent to go to social media they want to sell it they want to grow their business whatever your thing is there's an outcome that you want right the key point is that like actually you you'll have a series of things that you can do some of them will be like 10x leverage you your the things that you should be doing right you have proven that you can get customers let's just say for argument sake via this like appband campaign okay cool so if we could just do more of that, wouldn't we grow faster? Yeah, okay, cool. Well, then let's just do more of that thing. The mistake people make is they start dividing our attention on all of the arts of the possibility. And actually, I think it's because people that use these platforms are entrepreneurial leaning. And the same thing that makes you an incredible entrepreneur can also be this thing same thing that holds you back sometimes. And that's the fact that all you can see is opportunity. And it means that you end up doing like 16 17 different things at the same time. Um, and one of the skills to learn and from thousands of people that I've out with this, I've seen the ones that crush it, is the ability to focus down on the thing and just do the thing that needs to be done to get the outcome. And it's going to be involve saying the word no quite a lot. You might need to add that into your vocab. Um, but sometimes if you think about anything in AI, it's an incredible tool. We should apply to the thing that you need to do. And all that said, you can

### Company Culture & Incentives for Automation [21:54]

it's still good if you're learning to have fun. And I build loads of stuff just cuz it's fun. I enjoy it. Uh and there's a rewarding intrinsic sense of doing that when it comes to applying and growing like focus is really the key I think. — Yeah. And what I like with this pulling this back and you know anybody listening on this one is like okay so let's figure out one what's the outcome that you want or whatever that thing might be in the business. What results are you doing right now to get that outcome that you want? Okay cool. Is there some sort of manual process or task that you need to do that is gobbling up all of your time that you can then automate to get from the outcome that you want, the process that you have and then remove any of those barriers to be able to streamline that process? That seems like a good little formula to help people — 100%. And so here's the thing as well, right? It's about the theory of constraints. And actually, if you ask most people what is your constraining factor, they won't be able to tell you. And if you think if I ask you right now watching this, what is your constraining factor? If you can't tell me straight away, it's really worth you going thinking about because what it's like the classic Lamborghini facts, right? Say you and I earn one. We can get 50 roofs out. We can get 200 doors 500 paint jobs. We can only get one engine out a day. It doesn't matter how efficient we are making doors or tires. We're only ever going to do one a day because our constraining factor is the engine. So, you have to identify what that is and that's going to tell you what to work on. And when you know

### Using Automation for Human Connection [23:13]

what you need to work on, that's the highest leverage thing. Then we start to look at, okay, great. What are the workflows and processes we should implement to kick ass with that? And I know that and I'm taking it like meta like kind of like the why and the how, but I think crushing that as your pyramid is just going to make you way more efficient. You're just going to be way more productive that way. — Yeah. And it comes down like usually people say time is one of them, knowledge, right? And they're like looking for ideas. They need inspiration, then there's like the technical knowhow, and then there's the bandwidth to execute, right? Okay. And so if you look at those kind of categories, you go, "Okay, cool. Okay, if time's the issue, then it sounds like something's gobbling up your time. If technical knowhow is the issue, then can you get around people or learn things to figure these things out? " So it sounds like trying to identify those constraints to kind of level up uh the skill set is is crucial. — Yeah. And it's actually interesting what one dilemma a lot of businesses have uh or entrepreneurs is, is it worth me learning or should I pay somebody to do it? And I think the answer to that question is you should learn how to do the basics at least. I think there's a foundational level of knowledge with any tool you're doing um that you should apply like you know my last business for example I got our SEO to a certain level 80%. We had like 50k versus a month. I said cool I've taken it here. Now I want you to take it from

### Personal Automations & Content Creation [24:29]

80 to 100 because there's no more ROI in me learning it right? So you take it and even if you have like a beautiful business, there's still value in you learning the technology to understand it because if you're going to employ people to do it for you or delegate that, you want some understanding cuz let's be honest with you, right? Like we can be transparent here, right? This stuff is only going to increase in prevalence and importance and criticality. So you want to be more aware of what the hell's happening than less aware. So, even if you don't intend to be a full-time builder or automator, I think having some get your 20 hours in at least get your basics sorted out and then you can delegate as you go forward. But I think that fundamental knowledge is really important. — Yeah, 100%. And I've noticed this, I mean, I know you work with a lot like AI agencies helping them get up and going. One of the things that I've noticed that what you can do if you're like if you run a business and you maybe short on time is like if you work with an AI agency and you're like, "Hey man, I may not do this, but can you explain to me what you're doing in the system in this process? " And as I've seen as I've ran AI agencies before is like it's like half of it is building the thing and the other half is like showing here's what's going on. Here's why we did this and here's some of these patterns that you could use to to repurpose or reuse the system for other areas of [clears throat] the business. — Yeah. I mean there's a lot of that. I mean, it's also like the one of the questions when you're selling an A10 stuff like is it my workflow? Is it their workflow? So, I think you can kind of get them to explain to you like what's going on, but it's also fun to learn like I mean, like I'd say everyone should just go and freaking have a good time and learning with it. Pull out, you know, get started type of thing. So, I'd always recommend everyone to check it out. — Yeah. Yeah, I mean there is a the joy in solving like I mean I think like originally I think like the developers generally out the gate they're like really someone said this was like a

### The 90/10 Rule: Automation vs. Human Touch [26:09]

really aggressive lazy people like they're like I want to solve this problem so I'm going to invest 10 hours to solve this consistent five minute problem because I want this thing to go away. So, they'll write a bunch of code. And I think like with like inadin, what's really cool about this, like I had a buddy of mine who hit me up yesterday and he's like, "Man, I just like I hate having to look at a computer screen to answer all my emails. Can I use Nadin to be able to answer emails? I can just talk to it with some like Cortana type of person and I can just tell it what I want it to do because I just don't I just want to I don't want to sit on my computer. I want to go for a walk. I want to drive my car. I just want to do this type of thing. " So like figuring out what are the areas that like you dislike that you don't that doesn't bring you joy in your life and then how can you make it more joyful you know dude it's like N10's like digital Lego like you're not selling things you're selling the ability to create things. — Yeah. I mean and that's a you're totally right. It is a digital Legos and it's playful and when you and when you do a thing it's almost I think some of the joy is when that visual thing that you're talking about when you see those circles go across and you see it happening you have this like little in big out like you click a button and then it zooms all over the place and then creates an output and you're like oh that's so cool and then you want to you know I go and show my wife and she's you know somewhat moderately entertained but then like you know nothing about it no she's like I don't care like I'm like this is so cool you should I was like ah it's okay you But, you know, I think that magic moment of exploratoriness and then just figuring

### Staying Productive & High-Leverage Thinking [27:38]

out how do you either embrace the struggles of it or how do you find a support network to keep you going? Like I mean, what other things come up to you on like on advice when people are just kind of finding the joy of using this thing amongst the struggles? — Yeah, dude. It's cool. I think a lot of people it's about control is a big thing like you say like the they say the drawback of an automate will spend 10 hours to solve a 5m minute problem uh is really true and I we chuckled that but I think a lot of it is agency and control like the fact that you can kind of fix anything you want to that is a good feeling that we kind of like to have that and my own personal perspective p personal perspective I've had a time in companies where you know I don't know quite frankly what the hell's going on with the technology. It's like this black box, this mysterious, there's lots of things happening and no one can really touch it and access it and oh my gosh, they're on holiday for a week, so it just is the way that it is. Sorry about that. And it's just not it's really frustrating to be honest with you. So, um having like awareness and the ability to like just say, "Well, I'll just fix it. Okay, I'll just do it myself. " Like is really freaking empowering. And like you can stretch like generally speaking fewer technologies stretched to their maximum is way better than a thousand technologies that you kind of use a little bit everywhere. Like there's a benefit of focus but you can go really far now with no code. Like you really can to the point where you kind of erode it like the key the

### Final Advice: Just Get Started & Win the Day [29:03]

developers are still important in the moment but you kind of erode down a little bit of what you'd need to hire them for. Like if you wanted to do this 5 years ago, get ready to pay whatever dollars an hour. A lot of the stuff now you can kind of do by yourself. — Yeah, man. And to your point, right, I think there's two things I think is really important is like learning how to cook in your own kitchen, right? Like if you're if it if it's your business and it's your and you know, it's your CRM and your databases and your everything and you want to be able to get these things to happen. It's if you spend a bit of time just figuring out okay I'm gonna understand what Naden is doing. Maybe I don't need to master Google Sheets and uh Air Table or and any of these other systems are lovable. But if you can understand how the data flows through this workflow, you kind of get a grasp of all these other systems working together in tandem and then you don't have this thing of feeling like you're disempowered as a business owner. like, oh, I have the actual understanding of how data is moving through my business as an organism and I and I now know what the roadblocks are because there's going to be a little error out on a section in the node and I can go look back at it and be like, ah, this is what's going on. And that does that sense of you're talking about empowerment and control

### Where to Find Jack Roberts & Closing Remarks [30:19]

creates that sense of certainty and also confidence that you're like, hey man, if I can't like I can figure this out, right? There's a sense of like I can there's it's not I don't need to be a hyper technical person to actually solve these problems. — 100%. And for most organizations, especially the big ones, you know, it is just two letters that just consumes more and more of the budget every year and it just kind of swells and grows over time. And you know, it's fundamentally disruptive technology stuff that you need to like, you know, it's just changing the way that businesses work and actually the call even if the CEO obviously you know nine figure company whatever doesn't know how to do it, there will be teams of people that do get it that they can actually step in and support. So your kind of like delivery mechanisms increase as well. So it's good. I mean you always want some general awareness of it but no code is just it's just fundamentally making text the coding language which basically means it's more accessible to build things that you wanted to build. So we've kind of we've allowed creatives to kind of just do the thing and we've just all we've really done is pull down the barriers of you need to learn this additional skill to get started. Well you don't anymore. Like that's fundamentally what's happened now. What advice would you give to like if you're a business owner like an SMB or something and like you want to bring something like this into your company like how do they get started? — Okay, so first of all, if you want to win as a business going in for the next 5 years, you need to be an AI first business. Like that's non-negotiable. Like that is an absolute fact. The question is, well, how do I do that? There's two components. There is what I'd call your businesswide like AI intelligence. So everybody needs to be AI native. Everyone needs to be asking what parts of my job could I realistically stop with AI? And if you don't know where to start, you should work either with a consultant or start educating yourself as the owner, as the leader. You should be the most AI savvy person in the organization because it is the most disruptive technology ever. So number one is upscale yourself on AI like watch videos, just kind of understand the board and the chessboard. The second thing is you're going to want some expertise. So the question the two choices you've got really is to build like an entrepreneur type of person either build the expertise within the business your AI automation builders okay have like an internal AI automation team who are freaking a crack team can do it and or get consultants to come in I would say the direction travel realistically is you should probably pay more for consultants and build the automation experience internally it's going to save you a lot of money in the long run but fundamentally it all starts with your awareness and then actually once you've got that, you need to pick you need to get a chart and that chart looks like this. On a scale of 0 to 10, what are all the things that we could solve across your business? Okay, what are the biggest problems and smallest problems? And you want to rank them out of 10 on impact and then how difficult is the thing to implement? And then in the bottom right quadrant, if you can imagine, is the 10 out of 10 really freaking valuable and also really freaking easy to do. And we call that like the golden zone. and you just freaking focus one by one on that box and work backwards and then you kind of do 8020 with the others and go backwards like that. So there's a knowledge piece, there's an awareness piece and then there's a roadmap side of things that I'd focus on. — I love that. That golden zone of creating a matrix which you're saying, hey, one to 10 in value, difficulty. Look for the intersection that has the highest value with the lowest difficulty. Start there and then work backwards. — Absolutely. — Love it. Absolutely beautiful. I don't know actually how much more time because I know we went a little over before if you guys — dude I'm good to keep chat mine it's good conversation. — Okay. Okay cool bro I just want to be respectful of your time. So this golden zone right going backwards from that helping people get clarity getting up and going right this and then you're talking about hiring external consultants and then having an internal entrepreneur some sort of internal hung and sa young and hungry savvy person that can do this and [clears throat] also giving chops to the business owner to be able to develop this. Is there any other pieces in terms of the business that you've seen help them either get started or sustain to continue this integration moving forward? — Yeah, so everything comes down to incentives ultimately there is a it depends on the size of business we're talking about. Okay. So the bigger your organization is the more politics will affect your business. Okay. And with that this kind of guardianship of one's role in a sense of if I automate my job I'm going to lose my job. So culturally you've got some work to do that basically says hey guys you can automate your job that is actually celebrated here. We reward that. That's a great thing and we're going to elevate you and actually give you a pay rise. That's got to be number one. Once you reach probably past I don't know 20 30 people where you start to not know who joins the team is kind of roughly when you need to think about the cultural piece. Um from a small business it's kind of about you know again the leader has to be in it and you need people championing it and it has to be the first part of the process be like okay can AI make this easier better simpler somehow and whenever someone I even had a really interesting example I forgot my name of the guy but basically it was along the lines of if you're going to hire somebody or you have to first re explain in detail why I cannot do the thing and only when you've done that and that's been written down and explained can you go and do the thing. So, it's actually about implementing processes in a business that force them to be in a nice way to be more AIcentric and AFOS and all the stuff that they do. — Yeah. And it's interesting you're talking about not only it's like one can you justify the role but is it something that we can automate like exactly like you said before should we even do this or should we delete this more like should we do this or should we automate this? — Right. We're looking at that process and then I think it's interesting because I know with like our temp our company uh you know one of the things we try to do is track how many hours have been saved with automation. So, we're very hyperfocused on what are the things that we're saving. And I will tell you like a really fun like automation that I know that the owner of the company built for himself is because we're hiring so fast. He's got a thing that has all the people that come into the companies, who they are, what they do, and some information. And every day he opens up and he goes through it just to stay fresh because so many people are coming in so quickly. He's able to stay connected with like, okay, cool. I'm understanding my people. I'm using this automation to create a deeper connection and understanding with the the people that I'm I'm working with. Is have you seen anything about that? Like how to use automations to create a better human connection in any way, shape, or form? — Yeah, it's a it's cool that your co does that. I think that's beautiful. It's like Yeah, it's cool because these automations just enable you to focus on the stuff that's high leverage or the stuff that really matters, right? we just take away all the boring repetitive stuff and we just squash it down. So using that I mean like what's a good example of that? I mean like you know somebody joins a community you get a notification you can read through and you can process that information and find all the stuff that they've said and like learn more about them. It kind of just enables you to learn more about the people which is really cool and there's like a billion different examples of that stuff but it's like this is the kind of real life benefit that like and I think it compounds basically when you get that stuff automated all these things start to compound over time. So, it's a really beautiful thing about — that's really cool because like I think you know when they talk about these things like in order to create a connection it's really caring about the person. Part of the caring about the person is actually knowing things about them and then making some sort of assumptions like hey man how's your daughter doing you know it's your wife's birthday or you know I know you're afraid of elevators you want to take the stairs like whatever that type of stuff is. So if you can use automation to gather the data on the people in your life and then you take that and consume that inwards and you're like oh I'm now deeply thinking about this person and what's going on in the world and then ask thoughtful questions. I feel like that is kind of a way like you owner does it through this. It sounds like you kind of do that with your own community too. — Yeah it's AI architecture right because I mean like classic example is if someone hey what's 5 plus 5 it's 10 right? But if someone said what's 692 times 1129 like you may be a savant to know that but we that's that would take you minutes to your head right or a period of time. So the point is like you know you'd you for a very simple math question you'd use a calculator but you want to run your life in your head and remember and try and do everything. It's like it's really silly. Some people most life's important decisions or even just like running their business or uh even their personal life they just try to run their brain. So the point is like you can use AI infrastructure now to build systems that says hey and there's no shame in having your freaking family's number and uh birth date and say hey dude let me know a day before or 5 days before the birthday send me a notification like bam you're never going to forget now cuz I don't go on Facebook I uses Facebook right now but the point is like you can build AI infrastructure to kind of account for things it's not even business right like personal stuff like you build it once and it's a cool thing and it just they're like how the hell you get 10 times more stuff done. Why is it forgetting? It's like just solving it, bro. That's it. — Yeah. You want to You want to scrape all of your Instagram posts from your wife and then come up with cool birthday ideas, you know? Exactly. Yeah. What can I do to have this kind of stuff ready and available for me in a fastmoving world? I love it. And one other thing I want to talk about is I know like on your recent videos you rated you're ranking all the different AI automations and platforms and things. You gave in an S tier rating. Yay. Hey, I'm curious about like what can you talk to me just a little bit about the justification or what why you you gave an it in S tier. — Yes. Okay. So that rating was based on a few things. The core thing is just value how valuable it actually is and what you can do with it. And no kid in general is viable, but NA really stood out to me for a couple of reasons. Number one is like obviously the crown jewel of NA10 I think is the agent functionality. It's freaking really awesome, really cool. the fact that you can have visibility of what the agent's doing, the interconnectivity, the fact that we can have multiple workflows in one canvas. There's a load of really big beautiful things why Antenn is badass. And just if I had to if it was like poundfor-pound impact and value you get from using a platform I think is the highest of any software out there right now. — Cool. Yeah, I was curious about it. Yeah. And it does it the agents being able to visualize them and seeing everything is super useful. Um, and then figuring out, you know, what are the things that I can add value whether in my business or my own personal life right now that would be super useful. I'm curious on the note talking about pound-for-pound and having it be more useful and impactful. Are there any like automations in your life that you currently run that like that for yourself or for your like your company, your community that you find to be super useful? Are there anything that stand out to you like these are some these are the ones that like if I took them away, you know, in the background you hear me go a — Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny. The biggest ones that I use are typically around content creation because that's actually where I spend most of my time. So, I've got like a lot of automations for a lot of different stuff. The ones that would really like I'd be like, "Okay, that's really not very a little bit annoying would be my content automations. " like taking like input from people in my community and YouTube comment sections and ideas and using that to generate basically the stuff that we should be focused on that we can talk about in meetings our content road map and stuff like that for me is one of the mechanisms that enables me to add more value. So I think if you were looking at it from like a pound for pound if you took that away I would be naturally less valuable as a result of it and I'd need to create more time in a day to do the thing. So I think it's got to be that. I like it. And I think one thing I'm noticing here is almost like this because a lot of people there's this kind of existential crisis of, you know, is AI going to replace me? Uh what's my purpose? What does this look like? And one of the things that I've seen just kind of as like a little bit of a recurring theme here is kind of like this 9010, — right? — 90 90% automation, 10% human ingeniousness, human connection, human whatever. like 90% ideation from the community, 10% of throwing your own personality, authenticity of making a video, or 90% of gathering data about people you know, you like and you care about, and then the 10% of actually reaching out and creating that deep connection. And so I'm looking at this 90s 10 patterns. Are you seeing that too, or is or do you feel like there's like this whole like we're going to be replaced and that now we go retire on the beach or watch Netflix all day long? — Yeah, it is, dude. It's like there will be a small handful of the things you do give you most of your returns. Like generally speaking, the question is what are the things like one of the most ridiculously simple automations I use that gives like which for its freaking simplicity is insane is just like an email segmentation agent that basically just says hey this is a sponsorship this is the customer like that works all day every day like if I didn't have that I'd be really freaking like this is really annoying I don't like the way my inbox looks anymore. So it is about the small things that give you the big returns. But again, it's the question of like what is the real problem? Like what's the robot in the red dress and what's the stuff we should be focusing on? — The robot in the red dress. I love it. That's great. And I think like what you're talking about too with is I feel like there's like if you're looking at like okay if I want to level up in life, my business, if I want to level up like who I am and my connections and all this stuff, I need to spend a little bit of time like just like understanding what current technologies are available I can use. Right? You want to spend a little bit of time getting clear on what are the outcomes that I want, what are the problems, the barriers that I have that are syncing up all my times and then spending time automating those types of things in your life. So you kind of have this looping pattern of staying fresh, clarity on your goals, identifying your constraints and then removing those strains with high leverage activities, whether it's making more YouTube videos or automating a ways of like simplifying your life in a way so that you can free up activities. Is it are those kind of the cornerstone pieces? — 100%. I mean like one of the things I add into my my schedule recently. It was Sunday morning. So I'm in France right now and I honestly it's a beautiful place. One of the features of the culture is they don't like you working on laptops in some coffee shops. And one of them says, "Hey, we're in no laptop zone. " But they also do the best food. So there's this kind of quandry. Anyway, I get I go there Sunday morning for brunch with my dog Dexter. And I said, "You know what, dude? I'm going to take I've got this big I don't got it here right now. A3 sheet of paper and I just okay I'm just gonna think and write what I believe to be my key the key 10x factors. It ended up being like one of the most productive things ever and it's become like a staple of my routine now about you know the sharpening the axe thing of like get two wood cutters in a forest like one stops on Friday goes home for a day comes back he's like this guy's a loser but he ends up cutting down three more three times more wood because he's kind of using the thing between his ears his brain and thinking about it and treating that like the highest leverage task that it is really important because you set what needs to happen and then you go and build it. um because it's so easy just to start building stuff that is cool but it's not solving the core problem. So I I really genuinely believe that what you work on is more important than how hard you work. I one like small little data point on that is that I remember at university and I' the more I think about this truth the more I see it everywhere and in the UK we have first class is the best then you have 21 a 22 uh 97% of people get a 22 or higher and I always my professor told me he said actually weirdly enough the guys that get two twos which is like one of the worst grades some of them like actually a fair amount of them work just as hard as the guys that get the best grades the difference is what they're actually working on. They're just not working on the right stuff. The input's exactly the same. It's just on the wrong stuff. So, I think given the fact that's like a fundamental law and I want, you know, we want to use this technology. The question is like what in which order, right? So, I just think that's it's such an important point. Like I think it's so worth addressing. And no, no coffee shops or cap or laptops and coffee shops, man. That's — it's terrible, dude. I barely I'm barely hanging on, dude. Yeah, — that's brutal, man. I don't know how to handle that. I maybe bring your own table and chair to bring it outside or something. — 100%. Yeah. — But the concept though that it forced you down a path of like deep thinking, right? And and clarity on and there's sometimes there is a kind of a connection between your hand and pen to paper that you drawing things out and seeing what's going on and then transcribing that into some sort of like high leverage activities to get you actions. And I think that's one of the values of the innate and not the that the deep thinking part you could do deep thinking but the pro the process of high lever activities and going you know these things are leverable because they're you know ins and outs but the question is this might be a high lever automation on a lowlever activity and now we're just trying to figure out what are those things and that's that is something that you know AI can't tell you chatbt can't tell you what are the things in your life that are eating up all your time maybe it can But — it's good and it's like it's not what's the answer, it's what's the right question to ask. — Yes. And that and that comes, you know, I think every quest starts with a question. And if you get clear on the question, you know what your quest is and then you move on the right path to where you want to get to. And so I guess you know my question for you on terms of of wrapping up this podcast is what is your message to people out there who see this fastmoving times they don't want to miss out they want to get started you know what's the first step on this grand adventure — the grand adventure is just get started and win the day win the day. All you have to do is win the day and then tomorrow win that day. You cannot influence or control the future. All you can do is influence today and the thing you can do right now is get started and learn one thing about it. Every breakthrough I've ever had in any business I've done, I can link directly back to a mindset that said, I'm going to get a little bit better every single day at this thing and eventually you kind of run out of things to get better at or you just get to the point where you overcome the threshold in time because your experience and knowledge will exceed your results for a long period of time. This is why, by the way, not everybody has like achieved the level of success they want to. Not everyone's like a super duper millionaire. It's because there's lots of opportunities to give up. You just have to be consistent and keep on improving consistently. But the key starts with, you know, it's how you eat an elephant, right? It's one bite at a time. Just win the day and you stack enough of those days where you win, eventually you'll get it and you'll arrive. — I love that 100%. It's like instead of trying to boil the ocean, right? You take one scoop out and then you and you boil that up. You're like, I get that through that throw that into the pot. keep moving. I think it's fantastic. Mr. Jack Roberts, it's been an honor and pleasure. Could you please let people know how to find you, your channel, and anything else related? — Yeah, you can uh if you'd love to hang out and learn some stuff, just type in Jack Roberts into YouTube. Um yeah, it' be good to catch up, hang out there. I know we've got a community of people that love this sort of stuff, so you're very welcome and blessed to join us on that journey, too. — Awesome, Jack. It's been an honor and pleasure, my friend. Much love and I'll see you on the other side. — Thank you, Chief. My pleasure. Really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. — Later, bro. Peace.