# How to Stay Relevant in the Most Competitive Era Ever | GaryVee with The Burnouts

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Gary Vaynerchuk
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz2UQzxZnyU
- **Дата:** 02.12.2025
- **Длительность:** 1:22:07
- **Просмотры:** 27,716
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/16783

## Описание

Today's episode is a conversation with @theburnoutspodcast , talking about the AI era we’re all about to live in, and why you shouldn't sleep on live shopping. We also get into global opportunity, inequality, politics, business culture, leadership, empathy, and why accountability is about to matter more than ever. Hope you enjoy!

00:00 – The new era of convenience and AI
01:28 – AI “fake people” and rising competition
04:43 – Live shopping: the biggest missed opportunity
06:55 – AI agents and the future of automation
14:19 – How global connectivity changed opportunity
25:07 – Why emotional intelligence wins in business
39:21 – The platforms you’re underestimating
43:09 – Understanding relevancy — and what people value
46:24 – Do men and women need different content strategies?
47:12 – The only thing that matters: value
48:55 – Marketing to men vs. women — the real differences
50:33 – Why you’ll be posting 10,000+ pieces a week soon
54:38 – Growth hacking vs. the marathon mindset

Foll

## Транскрипт

### The new era of convenience and AI []

There's no reality in a decade where things aren't more advanced, easier. The old adage of convenience is king is remarkably true. We get annoyed when our food delivery is 5 minutes later than it said it would be. Do you understand that you were laying on your couch doubleclicked on your phone? I'm of the age where like it was cool to just be able to call a restaurant and have them deliver. You have to go to your kitchen and find the menu and call the place and can you please stay on hold? I'm like sure. Better than driving to the pizza shop. And shop was a convenience 100 years ago because before then you had to make the pizza. Like everything progressively gets easier for us. And we're about to go into the most significant easier lack of friction era since the internet which is this AI era. The elimination of friction is like always the right answer. With AI people, we're going to have more than 8 billion people. 800 billion people because 792 billion of them are going to be fake people. There will be way more competition. But that's just like the punchline of the way it is. Do — you think we'll see a huge peak in content creators is as AI lays off more jobs? — And I wrote a book in 2009 that basically said everybody was going to content create and then secondarily now with AI people, we're going to have more than 8 billion people. We're going to have 800 billion people because 792 billion of them are going to be fake people. So yes, I believe in supply and demand. Like yes, there will be way more competition, but that's just like the punchline of the way it is.

### AI “fake people” and rising competition [1:28]

— Well, I was watching your podcast with Cody Sanchez where you were talking about live shopping and whatnot as like undiscovered kind of idea of the attention economy. So, I was really interested in like what you felt like was areas where young people should be focusing, where there could be a lot of opportunity. I think there's a lot of young women, let's start with women given this audience, let's just go down that path, who want to be a content creator, podcaster, want to have a career because I've been following content creators and influencers since 2005. There's I have a lot of historical context. And what I know about that historical context is there's different content creators for different eras. When Instagram first came out, it was first for people to take pictures and there was a picture app. First it was like for photography and then it started to become a social network. But the only option to post on it was pictures. So who rose very quickly in that early era? Models, — both male and female, right? And so if you were good at taking photos, I'm sure this is not lost on any women listening right now. Some people photograph better than others. And so if you were a human that photographed attractively uh and you understood what was going on in Instagram, there was a whole movement of people who monetized quite a bit. Then video was introduced and it changed the dynamic of that platform. Live shopping has happened right now. — Live shopping is huge. There are probably 5,000 listeners right now of this podcast who aspire to be a creator or influencer and the destiny has them not winning that game. They're not good enough and they will not make a million dollars a year or 500,000 a year in brand deals and affiliates and all that. However, that same human, that same girl that I'm using the analogy of right now, if she went to live shopping, because she is a good salesman and has gift of gab and has depth of knowledge and can hold a conversation and enjoys the streaming IRL dynamic of like not only talking about this Prada product, but she's also naturally good at seeing that Karen said something in the comments and can jump with her. And then back to this, she's destined to be a remarkably financially and emotionally successful live shopping personality. — So, should we put live shopping in the FIA app? — Yes. — You think so? — I do. — But if our vision is being like the AI personal shopper, do you think live shopping is going to be a key part of that? I've seen that a lot of like cuz I feel like Tik Tok's also really hopping on the live shopping. — Oh, well, Tik Tok is the foundation of this. Tik Tok bike dance in Asia. Do you know that in Asia 30% by conservative standards 30% of all e-commerce transactions in China are happening on live shopping? — Do you know how big the Chinese e-commerce economy is? So I think this is already happened. Like this is not me predicting — like Tik Tok and US whatnot. And like, by the way, Meta's gonna do this and Google's gonna do like every social platform just like they all have stories. Like, they're going to have live shopping because they're gonna have to compete with the reality of the consumer behavior, which is people love buying in live shopping formats. And so

### Live shopping: the biggest missed opportunity [4:43]

if you look at Abocrombie and Fitch, they completely like saved their business by doing live shopping on Tik Tok, right? If you look at PopMart, so you know, yes, of course, having the biggest K-pop star in the world push Leubu starts a spark, but when you look at like that's not enough. — So, we're going to build out a live shopping. — That strategy may lead to you deciding not to put it in the app because it's distracting. It's not on strategy. It's okay if you don't, — but I don't think it's okay for you not to debate it when you understand it's a significant human behavior. — Yeah. I think it's interesting because even YouTube Shorts has now added the ability to add like an affiliate link so that you can monetize on videos that you're putting out. So I think it's just generally like the intersection of commerce and also media is becoming more prolific. So if you're talking about a product, why would you not link it into that video so you can also monetize on it? — The elimination of friction is like always the right answer, — right? what you're talking about correctly is like why did people like see like oh I love your if somebody's watching right now loves your pants right why do they have to like spend like real effort to either find it like the tech stack is getting to especially with AI and everything else we're here like they're watching they're like oh that's so cute boom out in like that's the name of the game — is doing it now too — there there's no reality in a decade where things aren't more advanced easier that the old adage of convenience is king is remarkably true. Like we get annoyed when our food delivery is 5 minutes later than it said it would be. Like do you understand that you were laying on your couch doubleclicked on your phone had your food like you used to have to like I'm of the age where like it was cool to just be able to call a restaurant and have them delivered. You'd have to go to your kitchen and find the menu and call the place and can you please stay on hold? I'm like sure. Better than driving to the pizza shop. And shop was a convenience a hundred years ago because before then you had to make the pizza. Like everything progressively gets easier for us. And we're about to go into the most significant easier lack of friction era since the internet which is this AI era. Like we are going into an

### AI agents and the future of automation [6:55]

era where your agents, your AI agents are going to buy the clothes for you without even deciding you like the pants. Your refrigerator as an internet of things with an AI overlay is going to realize you always buy this almond milk. It's literally the carton of the almond milk is going to be tech oriented to understand the weight. The fridge is going to be able to feel the weight is left with what's one more pour and it's going to reorder the almond milk for you. — And so a lot of people listening right now like that sounds terrible. What do we like I mean this is what people do. They're like that sounds terrible. the there's a romance to go to the store. — The washing machine was first invented, they're like, "What are the housewives going to do? Like, they're going to be so bored. The suicide rate for women is going to go up. " — The same thing for the typewriter. — When the typewriter was invented, like we're going to lose the craft of our penmanship. And let's take it to the extreme. What about this beautiful thing called electricity? — The term demonizing things came from electricity. When electricity came out and was available in homes instead of candles, people did not put it in their home because word on the street was electricity was made by de demons were in it. It was demons. That's how per that's how like unbelievable just 120 years ago the concept of that. And so we demonize things. And so I mean it's like for all the kids that are listening only 20 years ago the concept of online dating was something that nobody talked about was like taboo. — People were meeting on match. com in 2005 but made up stories to their friends and family that they met at a bar. — Now everyone meets on Hinge. I think it's so interesting that you say this because I was reading about you talking about your regrets of missing out on Uber and you said that one of the biggest things it taught you was just that convenience was king and that people were willing to pay to be able to save time on stuff. — Even that one was even perceived time. My brother took the first Uber in New York and the first week of because the conversation with Travis and Garrett that I was having at the time was like, "Yeah, this works in San Francisco cuz San Francisco's transportation sucks. Will this work in New York? subway taxis. And I remember the first Uber I took, I ordered it from my office. I was like, "This is so cool. " Coming down and I standing there and literally eight yellow cabs drive by with the light on it. I'm like, "Fuck, I'm losing time. " But like the perception that I was going to gain time. Yeah, convenience is the ultimate king. — Like where do you think there's opportunity for that with AI for like what is worth doing yourself versus what should you be outsourcing? — Well, I think you know what's fun about that question? And this actually could take us down a really fun path in this podcast. I think it's an individual thing. I think one of the things we're all struggling with in society right now is like everyone's trying to impose their opinion — on everyone else. Like for me, I want AI to do absolutely everything so I could have as much time to be creative and to be with my friends and family. — That's for me. I there's nothing I'm going to be sad about. And by the way, if I am sad about it, let's use my almond milk thing. If I'm the kind of human being who cannot wait for Saturday to wake up, work out, and then go and take a nice 1-hour stroll to the supermarket because I enjoy touching the tomatoes and I enjoy the interaction with other human beings in my local market and I get it. It brings me happiness to pick which peanuts I want. — Well, then I can, but for me, Gary, that is not interesting and I'd rather have that hour back. And so I think what AI is going to do is create unparalleled optionality. — And so if you like to mow your lawn, well, masletoough, mow your lawn. — But and so I think where this will go and I hope people get more thoughtful about this is there is no wrong or right outside of the most egregious things. And I think we have to get better at understanding like I'm not going to demonize somebody if they use AI for something that I'm not going to use it for. And I think we've become incredibly judgmental. — Like what? — Like I just think people think everything is should. You should do this. You should do like the word should even asked it. has become incredibly powerful. Like what? Everyone has their two cents on everyone's [ __ ] business. — You know what I'm really excited for about AI? I I'll tell you my fear. My main fear and this is true in every, you know, digital revolution we've seen, whether that's the internet, whether that's electricity, is that the third world gets left behind. I'm really worried about that personally. That's my fear. My other thing — real quick just to jump on that. That was a very common conversation about this when it came out — and yet it went the other way. — The mobile device had a tremendously positive impact on Africa will be an incredibly big topic over the next 30 40 years. — I would argue that it was not the cell phones that were as if you're arguing that the cell phones are the modality for the digital payments then yes because — I am arguing that. Okay, that that's fair. — But think I mean think about how profound that is. — They are way ahead of us on digital payments. But in terms — it also connected people to the world. — Yes. But in terms of actually benefiting their economy, if you think about the mobile phone as an invention of whose GDP it actually affected. — Yes. But you're talking about a much more interesting conversation and a complicated one which is the technology is not the punchline. It's government warfare. — That is fair. You know what I mean? Like think about like where data centers are being built now. That's going to be a huge money machine. You know, we're in a gold rush and the shovels are going to matter. The picks and matter and only — Yes. But that is not the technologies fault. That becomes a conversation of geopolitics. The bricks alliance versus the US. Like you start getting into real conversations. Hey everybody, I'm not going to keep you long, but I've got to tell you about garyve. com/stan Stanto an incredible tech stack for creator entrepreneurs and entrepreneurial creators. Is literally the tech stack based on what I wrote in Crush It and Crushing It. and really the thing almost all of you are trying to build. So if you are one of those people, go to the GaryVee challenge that I've partnered up with this investment I made in Stan's store. I believe in this. I believe in it for you. You'll see why I love it. GaryVee. com/stan. Go check it out. Now back to the video. — But my concern more is that like people aren't the US and for other first world countries are going to have access to these tools, the chatgbt to progress themselves forward. And then you're going to have, you know, someone who's born in a village who doesn't have access to a laptop is going to be nowhere near their counterpart who's just the same amount of intelligence as birth somewhere else. — Yes. But you're talking about the flight of the human race. — I — Right. Like we can bring that to like pavement and concrete and the industrial revolution that becomes a forever game. — That's why I said it's — but but let's talk about that. Unlike 1900 when the industrial revolution created exactly what you're talking about at a profound scale because the 18th century had far less infrastructure. Right? So that was even I would argue that industrial revolution is even more profound than the revolution we have going on now. Unlike that in 1891 when you're born in the outskirts village of Chile, you have no idea what's going on in the world. Your entire world is a five mile radius. The child that today is born in a third world country is in a place where they become educated of what's going on in the world. There are people right now

### How global connectivity changed opportunity [14:19]

in third world countries consuming this podcast — and they will hear something that one of you two say that may spark the beginning of inspiration that allows her to decide where she wants to live when she's 18. The thing I am really excited about and to hit on that note, the thing is that most people live and die without ever seeing a doctor. And if you look at the amount of doctors per capita that you have or just per people like when I was working in Rwanda at Partners in Health and they have one of the best health systems in Africa, they have these public health workers who for the entire village serve their entire village's health needs. Oh, and by the way, they're unpaid. They just get a cell phone and go around and help everybody. But the amount of, you know, if we can supercharge doctors within third world countries, that will be huge. And the stuff that they're doing with like call centers where you can call in and then they can instantly like prescribe something and you just come and pick it up or they can take notes for the doctor and ship out the prescriptions. I think that stuff is going to be so important because if you can expand the amount of people who can touch a doctor, that's going to be huge. — Listen, I'm empathetic. this last five minutes of this podcast. — I'm incredibly compassionate, empathetic, and understanding to people viewing things that are going on in the world and about to go from a concern, from a cynicism standpoint. My argument always is, what if you just took a step back and also decided to look at it from an optimistic standpoint? This last 30 seconds that you just talked about is incredibly important. None of us, not any one of the 8 billion of us is in a position to fundamentally make the world exactly how we want it to be. That is not how things work. My argument is if you look over the last 200 years on everything, every single issue, I'm incredibly proud and optimistic about the human race. I want everybody to hear this because I have a good sense that a lot of people here don't have a lot of context on me. Um, I want them to al also understand it is not lost on me that there's tons of terrible I'm This is not delusion coming out of my mouth. I'm not looking the other way. Of course, there is profound amounts of things going on around the world that are not fun from every angle, from every country, for every race and gender and age group. There's just unlimited things. We all as humans pick and choose which ones bother us. I'll give you one that's very weird for me. I am devastated by the collective disrespect of the elderly. — We have gone through an incredible 25-y year window where we put youth on a pedestal looking young, acting young, and just whiz kid. The fundamental inherent disrespect of 20 and 30 year olds around the world towards 80 and 90 year olds is unprecedented in the history of time. pretty much forever. The elder I'll explain the basically for the beginning of time until about 50 years ago, — the elders in our family, we took so much in their words. Our grandparents had so much say it mattered. We listened to their wisdom, to their life advice. Today, we make jokes about them because they don't know how to use technology. What do I mean? It is not common practice for many 25 year olds that are listening right now to really seek out and sit down with an 80-year-old that is not their grandparent to talk about life. — That was dramatically more common a 100 years ago. And so we've completely lost wisdom. And in fact, we're shockingly disrespectful. What am I talking about? I'm talking about every time I'm at an airport 50 years ago, a 26-year-old man would get up and let an 80-year-old woman sit down in his seat when she walked by. And I watch every day that not happen anymore. — Well, that should happen if a guy's a good dude. — I understand it should happen. It did happen. But by the way, let's not just pick on dudes. I watch un This is the point that I'm trying to make. I don't think anybody of the other 8 billion people on Earth should be upset or concerned or worried about what I'm saying. But I'm telling you right now, if this is like a weird thing and you're listening, everyone at home, just pay attention for the next 48 hours of like how a 70 and 80year-old is being interacted with by both men and women in their 20s and teens and 30s. We've lost completely any kind of grace or respect towards the elderly in our society. And so like I'm passionate about that. I think that's interesting. I think that's a mistake. I think that's hurting us more than we realize. But I can't impose that on everyone. I don't I'm not mad and think everyone's a piece of crap for not thinking about the 70 and 80 year olds in society. What I'm saying is overall — Yeah. — technology, you know, penicellin. — Yeah. — Concrete, the tractor. Overall, technology has done a lot more good than bad for the human race if you're willing to look at things in 50 and 100year windows. to your point is the AI going to be written in a biased manner is you know are we leaving behind you know some the answer is of course humans are inherently flawed there there's going to be shortcomings and my concern is that we're at the highest levels of hypocrisy there's nothing the three of us here can talk about or the three behind the camera or the eight billion people where we can judge and point fingers at people for what's wrong but we rarely talk about what we suck at — Oh my god, I suck at so much. — But I mean, we But you'll appreciate this. You and I and maybe you like, you know, like we may talk about silly things we suck at. Oh, I'm bad at like I leave my clothes on the ground. We don't talk like people aren't out here being like, you know, I cheat on my taxes. — Like no one's here. Nobody's going on a podcast and be like, you know, I beat my partner. Like what I'm saying is humans make mistakes and we've become incredibly judgmental. Everybody's got a hot take. Everybody's got two cents and they don't even know these people. — Like when people have hot takes on people, you don't really know them. — Yeah. — And so these are like fun things to think about. — The reason why like I was curious for your perspective on the elderly is cuz also before we started rolling for this podcast, you were talking about like, oh, I would hire a 12-year-old if I just generally that there's so much opportunity in people who are younger who do have an understanding of the current world that we live in. We live in a very different world than someone who is 80 now. Correct. Grew up like without AI and without an understanding of — I mean you're sitting with somebody who's 49 years old. I went through all of my high school years without the internet. — 100%. But that's why like I think there are very legitimate criticisms of like for example with our government. — Yes. — If someone who is 70 or 80 is in charge of so many different things that they have no understanding of. To me as a young person like that does scare me. Like I as it should and all of that like I think those are areas where it's very legitimate to be able to have legitimate criticism. — Oh by the way please don't thank you that I really appreciate that again if I'm not being clear I think criticism by the way op everything is in play. What I'm saying is that is appropriate and then what I'm asking for all of us to debate is like what are we then going to do about it? — Yeah, — right. Like I think we've gotten very good at commenting and adding our opinions and poking fingers. And I'm just curious about where's everybody at with thumbs. To your point, if let's say for you, — the concept of 70 and 80 year olds running the country, you have the ability, you to make a decision, you could decide to build this company and do this podcast, or you could decide to commit your life to changing the political system. You're allowed. or because you're a proper human being. It's not that you have to be 100% here and 100% there. You may decide because you're passionate about this to spend 2 hours a day on trying to have an impact on campaigns of 30-year-olds and things that everyone's allowed. You know, for example, I also have a lot of, you know, I was born in the Soviet Union. USSR in a really shitty place. And so I'm incredibly affected by where you're born, right? So, you know, I spend a lot of my time on Pencils of Promise and Charity Water, which spend their time on trying to bring water to the 800 million people on Earth that don't have clean water access. And I build schools in Ghana and Guatemala where literally if a school is not built there, the children sit under a tree with an elder statesman and read the same old book. I decided that was important to me. I don't think that makes me better than anyone, not better than anyone. I'm just very passionate right now about accountability. I we've become incredibly uh good because of the media landscape to sit around and talk about a lot of stuff. I'm hot on action and I'm hot on compassion and empathy of like just a little more thoughtfulness on why things are the way they are. — I'm curious, has this changed since you've gotten married? Like do you feel like there was a turning point in your career where you started to have this amount of self-reflection or do you feel like you've always been this way? — I feel like I've always been this way cuz my mother is the single greatest human on earth. You know, my mom — is has so much humanity in her and the way she raised me. She champion and the luck of DNA like I've always been I see this in my son by default empathy comes natural to me. So my brain does it defaults into like what's this mean to them? — Like I really struggle with people that are deeply selfish and emotionally like are just incapable of deploying sympathy, compassion and empathy. Um but I'm also very like and back to that empathy I'm understanding like I think everything is allowed as long as your intent and your actions are trying its actual best not to hurt someone. The reality is like this is just life and there's a lot of variables to and there's always things going on. — And I know we want to I saw the note from Margot um focus this conversation also of course on business. Okay. — That's like the primary focus of our podcast, but I do want to touch on something I thought that was really interesting was that you hired a chief heart officer company and you've said that you think EQ is more important than IQ when it comes to managers. Can you talk about how you can relate empathy and all these different things to business? — Yeah, it's a great segue. I think we just got into all that rant around humanity. I would argue to the business landscape that retention of employees and them being happy while they're there is the single biggest variable if you're trying to build something meaningful long term.

### Why emotional intelligence wins in business [25:07]

— So you young ladies and many of the people listening, it is very in many people's minds to start a startup and to sell it. — Yeah. — Right. That's like and that's interesting because I'm a little bit more OG. Like every business I've ever built is only I'm trying to build in perpetuity. — Yeah. and leave it to my kids. It's very immigrant [ __ ] right? So, what when I started investing in Silicon Valley startups in 20067, one of the quick observations were like, wait a minute, they're not building companies, they're building financial arbitrage machines just to get to the exit. — And so, a lot of things I cared about were not as important. The thing I always cared about was the I used to call it the atmosphere. Now, it's called culture, right? Like, yes, at Vayner X. So everybody who's listening, I have about a 2500 person global marketing agency. My career 15 years ago took a weird shift where I started an advertising agency and on Madison Avenue like Don Draper Madmen Men style. I put the flag in the ground that said, "Hey advertising, you've got this all wrong. It's not television and search and direct mail and billboards. Social media and content and podcasts and YouTube are going to eat up the world. " And I got laughed at and now we have one of the biggest companies in the entire industry. What you're referring to as Claude Silver who first came to me as an account person, but I could just see that she was like me. Like it was all about the people — and she actually quit cuz she herself in working for me found her purpose and she thought she was going to go be like a chararma or whatever, you know, like you know. And then luckily I was able to a year later convince her to come back and instead of being the account person I made her the chief heart officer and we made up that title because I didn't want our HR but at that point I realized that HR was like considered scary. I didn't know that about corporate America like they were the bad guys. I was like that's the good guys I thought. And so I wanted to set a different tone in my company that our HR department is actually your friend. In fact, one of the biggest things that happened at my company is in the boardrooms, my chief hard officer, Claude, has more juice and political clout and say on decisions than my chief financial officer, Alan Harker, which is unheard of — if you really know business, like the CFO has a lot of [ __ ] say. — Yeah. — In fact, most companies the CFO is running the company, not even the CEO. — Yeah. — Which is like a brain [ __ ] for an entrepreneur like me. So, yeah, it's been great. It's we have unheard of retention in my company. Last night I had a 45minute drink with Ben Allison. He's you know we're he's and I was like how long you been here now Ben? He's like 10 years like that in advertising a year and a half. People are moving jumping around. It's a pretty [ __ ] up and in fact one of the reasons I still love building Vayner Media is the industry is a little [ __ ] up. It's not very good to its people. at what it does right now. And I kind of enjoying [ __ ] it up. And the way I think about that is it's not just I back to something we were talking about earlier. I you know what I like about my career and what I hope others have this business is fun because you if you really want to play it it's a place you can be selfish and selfless at the same time — like I love Vayner because in one point selfishly I'm building a very large company and it's going well but in the other point I'm really [ __ ] up an industry that's [ __ ] up to people and now people are starting to have to copy me because I'm winning and the beneficiary of that is everyone who's going to work in advertising. That feels nice. — And that's like the good side of business. business is if you're a good guy or girl and you're successful, people will copy you. — Yeah. — And that's profound. — Um, and I'm a big believer in that. In fact, one of the only times I've ever been booed publicly booed was at when I was giving a keynote speech at South by Southwest and my opening line was, "Fuck Steve Jobs. " at the height of Steve Jobs and like literally dead silence and then booing. And I said, "I understand, but let me tell you why I'm saying that. " And I said, "I have watched over the last 24 months 10 of my friends who have startups go from being nice guys to being [ __ ] because the word on the street is you have to be tough on your people — to get the most out of them. " And I'm like, I don't like that part. I like the innovation part. I like building great products. I like certain parts, but we cannot allow, in fact, I'm actually thinking about starting a fashion brand called Nice Guys Finish First. I'm being dead serious. Like, I want to champion good behavior in business because I believe it is wildly capable. — We There's unlimited people that are not known, many that are known, that are running great businesses and being very human to the best of their ability. The problem with business is you can't in parenting you can overcodle and you just have entitled kids. In government you can overcodle there's no [ __ ] ramifications. In academia you can overcodle and there is no ramifications. In business if you overcodle your team and your company you will go out of business. — And so it business is hard because it's the closest thing to sports. — It's merit. — Like if you guys don't do a good job this is gone. — Yeah. — And you'll have to do something else. So business is for me it's very hard as someone who is truly his mother's son. Like I've struggled for 25 years in firing people. My kryptonite has been ironically Gary Vee the public figure very canderous. Gary Vaynerchuk the boss not canderous for 20 years it was my kryptonite because I felt bad like I don't care enough about the money or the business. I was like you have you're like could you like you guys are going to go through this. I'm sitting in my office and I'm like, "Sally stinks or Ricky stinks. I've got to fire them, but [ __ ] because I'm so in my employees shit. " I'm like, "But Ricky's [ __ ] dad just got diagnosed with cancer. " — Oh, it's so — right. So, I'm like, "What the [ __ ] do I do with that? " — But you also know that John just quit because he thinks you're an idiot because Ricky sucks and you're not firing him and he's like, "Fuck this place. I'm going to Google. " Like, like business sucks cuz it's real. It's sports. Sports and business have truer ramifications. academia, corporate, you know, government, parenting, most things don't have merit. — Like if you [ __ ] like you know, like it's just [ __ ] hard out here way more than people realize. — It's so interesting to me also because you're one of the only male media personalities that I follow who has always talked about you need to be kind, like a good person. And it's really scary because I would say most of the young boys our age follow really inflammatory men like to be honest Elon Musk on Twitter and they think that that's the type of personality they need to aspire to be super successful in the world. Like what would you say to people like that? — I think there's chapters in people's lives. — Like I've literally just got a DM from someone on this topic which was like G literally I read the whole thing Gary I [ __ ] with you heavy from 2006 to 9. Then I was like, "Oh god. " — Like, "Fuck this dude. " Like, cuz he liked the wine stuff. Then he was like, "Then you went into business and I was like, it's too [ __ ] like he thought I was like too like over M cuz I'm hyped. I'm like, you got to [ __ ] get, you know, he's like I thought you were like too this guy. This kid's a left kid, not a right kid. I'm going in a different direction with you. " — Basically, I read this whole four paragraph thing just cuz I randomly read DMs like that. I'm in it with my community. I just what I took away from it was I watched this kid go from very socially liberal to very conservative to now purple to back to liber. Like literally he gave me his timeline of his relationship with me. And I think to answer your question, it es and flows. — A lot of this hardcore right stuff came because there was such hardcore left stuff. It's overreactions. I actually am incredibly purple by nature. Like in a world of red and blue, I just could never comprehend doing what so many people are doing in life right now, which is they've come so hard on identity politics that they changed their mind of what's in their soul to fit fully blue or fully red. — I would tell you and everybody who's listening, I have good news. This is going to eb and flow. And what would I tell everyone to be empathetic of why I am empathetic of why from every angle now to I just want to make myself clear. There is never an appropriate time for anyone to do the wrong things. But to remind people because I've really watched society for 20 years heavy. It's what I do for a living. It's really social listening is what I would say I actually do. An human anthropology. I do it for the sake of understanding what to do in business and what I want to talk about, you know, and how to land a kind message all the time, you know, like, you know, so I use it for those reasons. But I would say to everybody, I have good news. These things eb and flow. — And what's the wrong thing comes in different chapters. There was a lot of people's lives ruined in 2017 and 18 who did not deserve it. They were fully canled for dumb [ __ ] — Yeah. I mean, Virgil Abau, rest in peace, got cancelled on Twitter for giving too little of a donation to some charity. Meanwhile, quietly, he was giving tons of like we got so we got a little crazy in 17 and 18. We're just going to cancel everyone. Right now, we're a little crazy or being a little too like [ __ ] every like and you know, and so I think it goes in es and flows. What I would tell young people especially who listening like look of course you're allowed to be concerned but I ask you from the depths of my heart please don't be scared let me explain why let's just use America let's just say you're really bent out of shape we could all agree that over the last 20 years it's been tumultuous right every time there's a new president or a new governor or new mayor I'm moving I watched every Republican and Democrat friend of my life saying they're moving right I would say something pretty powerful that and it's similar to that little kid growing up in the suburbs of Chile or outskirts Chile. If you genuinely as a human being wake up tomorrow and be like, "This sucks. Manhattan, obviously we have a big mayor race. America, right? I just want you to know you're capable of leaving. " And I'm not saying like get the [ __ ] out like those people. I'm just saying you as a human, you like if everybody understood how remarkably in charge of their life there is. If they just understood, and it goes very deep. Let me bounce around a little bit. A lot of kids, just knowing the audience here, a lot of you young ladies, young men that watch this, a lot of you are making decisions in your life right now to appease your parents. And I implore you to understand the ramifications of that. — And I actually think it comes from a great place. A lot of you listening are very lucky. You have great parents and you love them very much. And you want to become a doctor or engineer or go to Harvard or Stanford or go into banking because you're so grateful for all the things they gave you. But in your soul, you're creative — and you want to do something else. Here's what's gonna happen. If you decide to do what you want mom or dad to do or both of them, it'll be okayish, but at some point you're going to be 33 and you're going to start resenting them for it. And it's better to have the tough conversation now and address that convo. And yes, they'll be disappointed for a year or two, but if you actually follow your like ultimately every parent just wants their kid to actually be happy. M — they just think they know what's going to make their kid happy at a certain point. — But I've just watched over the last 20 years so many people at 35 then be and then they become and then they blame. They're like, "Mom, it's your fault. You pushed me into being a lawyer. " — We have to be accountable even at 22. And so I guess what I'm saying is you're in control. And the more you know you're in control, the more you're actually going to be happy. — And I just I wish everyone who was listening knew how in control all the way they are. all the way, including rules that mayors, governors, presidents make like the world is is a profoundly interesting place right now. And with technology and with zooms and VR coming and all the things that are coming, the optionality for the 18 to 30year-old set is profound. And I wish they could just tear instead of looking here and being like, "This is [ __ ] up. " Could you just turn your head and say, "This is remarkable. " And if you spend a little more time on remarkable, it will make it a little more balanced. — And I know you talk about like really focusing on the places where there's, you know, you can get, you talked about Google ads really early on. You would buy like keywords like for literally — 5 cents. — And then you like took the wine business from literally being like what 3 to 4 million in revenue to 60 million in revenue like over the course of a year or two. — It was a 5year period, but we had no money, no capital raised, no credit line. And so my back to business instead of all this big talk, uh my premise, my latest book, Day Trading Attention, my premise is everyone who's listening, even with little bits of money and right now with organic social with literally no money. If you know where the attention is and you get good at it, you win. So even further back, I know there's a bunch of youngsters here. Let me take you to the OG. When I launched a website for my dad's liquor store in 1997, people were like, "What? " That would be like me saying, "Hey, let's all go to Mars and set up a flower shop. " Like that's how everybody around my dad was like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing? " Like it was so crazy. That was the first underpriced move I did. The next one was actually email. You know, the stories about Google and social media building my dad's business are a little bit like off in that I would argue if you actually put me in the corner and said truly the one thing you did to build that business for your dad, I would say email. — Nobody knew what it was. It was all I was competing with wine stores selling cataloges. So, while everybody was spending lots of money making cataloges to sell high-end wine to people in Manhattan, I was emailing them down at Wall Street and selling it four weeks before they got the catalog. — And what would you say is places that we should focus right now? — Live social shopping. Okay. Live social shopping. But besides that, like because every girl who like looks like us is on Tik Tok, Instagram. Yep. — Should we be on Snapchat, YouTube? Where else should we be? Snap. Snapchat. Are you are you asking should we be there marketing to build up our podcast and our app? Yeah. — Yes. Substack, Snapchat, YouTube Shorts. I got a big one for you. Facebook. — Facebook Blue.

### The platforms you’re underestimating [39:21]

— We were just hearing that from uh the Diary of a CEO team that they're all over Facebook. Their biggest growth. — Facebook Blue is a [ __ ] monster. — And you know what's happened? And this may make sense for the youngsters in this room right now. because of marketplace for like random stuff for their apartment and because of groups there's a stunning amount of 22 you know it's one of these funny things there's a lot it's almost like online dating 20 years ago there's a lot more 22 to 32 year old usage of Facebook blue than people realize but it's almost like every 24 year old doesn't even want to say it out loud — love Facebook marketplace — you love it no I'm sorry look at this you just said it you just literally said why do you love Facebook Blue. — If you drink it, if you drink it close to your — Cuz that's just where like my entire community is. Like my entire professional network is still on Facebook. — Yeah. How old are you? — I'm 25. — Here's the thing, and this is why I wrote the book. And by the way, actually, I made a free deck. Garyve. com/attention for everybody who doesn't have 20 bucks to buy the book. Literally, I pirated my own self. Um, — literally. — Literally, — we're going to buy some books. We should do a giveaway for the audience for people listen to the episode. — But honestly, like you don't even have to do that. Literally, I summed it up in a 44 page deck. Pretty good. GaryVee. com/attention. Here's the thing. Why most people are not great at social and what has been the foundation of my 20 year career of staying relevant is you can't post the same picture and video on Facebook and Instagram the exact same way and think the same thing's going to happen. — We disrespect the audience too much. I'll give you an example. You two ladies, when you open Instagram and when you open LinkedIn, you're still you, right? You're the human, but your entire mindset of why you're in there is completely different. The way you're going to act in this podcast in the is going to be different than when you guys act in a business meeting, which is going to be very different than when you're acting as your with your family, which would be very different if you guys took a girls trip for a weekend to, you know, a spa or Vegas or a visa. Wait, we done none of those things, Sophia. — Cuz you're building. — Yeah, Where are we going on that? — No, don't do that. Just keep building. I like what you guys are doing. Keep building. — Exactly. Which, oh, by the way, you'll still be [ __ ] children and it's going to be enjoyable. So, anyway, what most marketers do wrong is they don't realize the cons. First, the consumers are slightly different. Obviously, you're going to get a lot more 63 year olds on Facebook Blue than you will get on Tik Tok, though plenty of 60-year-olds are on Tik Tok. But more importantly, the psychology is different. And so the clip you use, the even if you decide to use the same exact clip, the copy that supports the clip needs to be different. The first 3 second preview might be slightly different. — What are the things that should be different? — Well, you got to think about like notice how he said my communities on Facebook. Tik Tok and Instagram have become more and more an interest layer more than a community layer. — Right? Like right that made sense to all of you. Whereas Facebook has more of a community. So I'll give you an example. If I'm trying to sell uh those shoes on Facebook versus Instagram, by the way, they're nice shoes. Um — I would look at those shoes, if I did an Instagram, more from the lens of like a magazine, runway, more like a culture thing. Whereas that shoe on Facebook, I would talk more about like — this is the shoe you should buy your girlfriend right now. Like to a girl, meaning not like this like do you have a four, you know, is somebody having their 30th birthday in your network? this is the it shoe as the gift because I know the community mindset there is even deeper than it is on Instagram. The psychology whereas on in excuse me whereas on LinkedIn if I was trying to sell that shoe I'd be like tired of having something that doesn't feel comfortable because you want to look great as you're running through the airport to your next meeting.

### Understanding relevancy — and what people value [43:09]

— You see where I'm going? I need to understand the psychology of the person I'm trying to target on each platform, thus rendering my creative and my copy slightly different, even though the agenda in all three is to get them to buy that shoe, just like your agenda is to get all of them to download the app and use it. — What's your biggest growth channel for your podcast right now? And do you specifically like when you do advertisements, are you doing them in specific countries? Are you just doing them for views? Like what does that look like? mo for my personal brand right now I'm not really doing oh I'm in a very interesting part like in fact even doing this podcast for the last 18 months I've been incredibly uncomfortably head down building V friends and building Vayner Media Vayner X — I'm kind of just this fall I'm is my coming out party I'm doing more podcasts and I'm going to start focusing more on my [ __ ] that being said Vayner X spends $3 billion in media and social and I look at all my data on my stuff all the time I will tell you that for me personally, I have substantial growth in the Middle East — and I will keep double downing on that from a business lens. Um, I've got a lot going on in Nigeria. We were joking earlier about India continues to grow. Um, I'm skewing more female every day which is interesting and like I look at that stuff. I think it has a little bit to do with like how I what I talk about. I mean, look, I like it, you know, I am definitely uncomfortably a purple and then b very big on emotional intelligence and feelings. So, I know like that makes sense to me. Um, and then what's interesting about me is I like talking about a lot of different things for the people that are listening. Like I talk about all sorts of things. Wine, I talk about garage selling and flipping, I talk about blockchain, I talk about AI, I talk about business, I talk about entrepreneurship, I talk about humanity and social issues. So like you know um it es and flows but the opportunities are on every single the punch line is everyone's looking for like where's the arbitrage is on every platform if you know how to speak its language — every person can explode right now in the world on YouTube shorts LinkedIn Facebook Instagram Snap Tik Tok all of them Snapchat spotlight is like a Tik Tok or Instagram but nobody really uses it for that yet there's stunning amount of consumption but far less creators posting on it. So it becomes supply and demand. Substack, you know that whole world uh IRL streaming, Twitch and kick like that is a I mean most of the famous people to 15 to 25 year olds are popping up in IRL now right the I show speed the Kais the like all that like IRL is massive and it could be debated that when you do this podcast that you have an IRL of it which shows all of it and some people like wait but then are they going to listen? I'm like who cares? they're listening twice or you're still getting the audience. And some people would prefer to watch this with all the oh, he tipped over the water before we even got on and some people would rather watch the post-produced higher quality. Like I want to give the audience unlimited optionality to what flavor they like best. — Yeah. — I want to touch on something that you said about so your audience has started to skew more female. There could be

### Do men and women need different content strategies? [46:24]

multiple reasons why, but specifically, I'm curious. Do you have different advice for men versus women on the type of content they should be posting on social media to go viral? Do you think it's different? — I am definitely a human being that believes like yes, girl and boys are different, but not like so radically different, right? Uh, as far as So, that's a overall thing. As a secondary thing, not really. Meaning, girls and boys are different. There's different things to think about, but the reality is that an audience is attracted to value. — Value is the game. And like we talked a little bit earlier about like people that won on pictures versus video. It's not super complicated. What's value? There's knowledge. Like I know that I am not wildly f followed because I am the most handsome man on earth. I'm also

### The only thing that matters: value [47:12]

aware that for Justin Bieber and Justin Timberlake and like and Leonardo DiCaprio, many of the following that they got was for their looks, right? I do not have a very large following because I am the greatest athletic freak. I'm aware that for LeBron James and Serena Williams for other people, people admired and enjoyed their incredible athletic prowess. — I think that there is a lot of different value one can bring whether you're a boy or girl. What I'm hoping everybody understands is the number one way you will win is if you provide value — right now. We may judge people's value. There's people right now on Instagram who have a million followers and all they do is show their six-pack abs and their muscles. Right? And of that million, 250,000 are women who are just wildly attracted to their physiques and 750,000 are men who are trying to follow those people to have the same thing. you're allowed to be like that's not good. I think it's fine. Like there's a lot of things that bring value. So some people are gonna like it depends to me the advice is always grounded in the value, — right? What values are you bringing? For me, I have very substantially strong 20-year credibility of bringing business advice specifically for what's happening that most people can't see, which is becoming more and more valuable. I am also valuable because I am a very positive person but I'm grounded in practicality. — So it's all love and it's good and you can but it's not like coddling. It's like this is real [ __ ] and you have to be accountable and so for people who are ready for that and like that they will like me. Um so you know I think it I think my advice is not different. I'm saying it's about self-awareness.

### Marketing to men vs. women — the real differences [48:55]

— Yeah. Part of the reason I ask is we had a debate in our office the other day. I don't know if you've seen uh like a startup clue. Yep. — Okay. So, there's the Cluey approach to marketing and then there's several other companies that market in a similar way and of course they've been tremendously successful at getting a lot of attention, but a lot of that attention has been male attention. So, one of our friends runs a very similar Instagram account and he told us 90% of his audience is men. Yep. And so, we were thinking about, okay, if we want to appeal to women, should there be differences in the way that we do? — Of course. But, but again, that's only one generalization, right? Like we have to click down next. Then there's women of income level, gender, race, age, like it, you know, the of course human, you know, and then it goes down to literally individual marketing. I'm a 49year-old white male, high income, but there's but literally most of the people that target me have I don't want a watch. I do not want a high-end sports car. I don't care about sailing. I don't give a [ __ ] about golf. I don't smoke cigars. Like, all the [ __ ] that targets me is so off. But I understand why they're targeting me, right? So, and by the way, I I'm sure it does quite well with many 49year-old New York City high like you know and so what I would say to you is yes, you start with boy girl and in some level that's one place to start. There's country America versus India — then or there's age gen versus boomer like there's these macro things and then you keep going lower and this is where AI is going to play a big factor. How many pieces of content do you guys put out on social in a week for this podcast? — Like 10 a day on Tik Tok, one a day on YouTube shorts.

### Why you’ll be posting 10,000+ pieces a week soon [50:33]

— 100. Great. When I was saying make a 100 pieces of content a week 5 years ago, I literally got ridiculed — by everyone. — I'm saying that this podcast in 5 years is going to put out 10,000 pieces of content a week. — Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. — Why not? If it's easy and like not expensive, I would put a million pieces of content. There you go. So, what I'm And what will that do? That will give you the optionality to actually make your podcast and your app relevant to a 67year-old Hispanic female that lives in the Pacific Northwest, right? Because in that you may be able to show her in the content. reference coffee and rain culture. You know, you know, — I'm from By the way, there was a reason I said that. You know, I thought I could hit that with you. And so, you know, I think that yes, I think that if you're trying to get an audience, you have to win on relevance — and what is relevant to that audience. But I remind people we that generalizations are fine and real wide demos. TV used to market 18 to 35. You guys are of the age where I think you know that you're not the same person you were when you were 18. — Yeah. — And I have a news alert. You're going to be different at 35. — I hope so. — And so, yeah, I think Yes. I think this is where we're all headed. I hope Sophia looks at me at 35 and goes, "Wow, Phoebe was a horrible co-founder at 22 and she's amazing now. " I hope that every five years there's something like that. Wow, that five years ago. Phoebe, woo, she was tough. — I think the way you do that, and this is now I'm saying this mainly cuz I'm going to assume there's some co-founders listening. The only way that will happen is if you two continue to overcommunicate even when it is hard and you don't want to disappoint the other person. You know, it's difficult because we try and set like every month transparently like just a three-hour block for like reflection and we'll go for like a walk, right? Okay, what went well last month? What didn't go well? How are we doing on communication? Hey, how can I improve? What are our goals for this next month? But things get so busy. — [ __ ] busy. — It's like I don't have time for a 3-hour block with you. Like, let's cancel it and let's do something else. — Correct. Can I give you one from someone who also with his 11 year you younger brother co-founded Vayner and like we went through the same thing. Be a counter puncher instead of an attacker. — You're attacking three-hour block — instead knowing that it's important that you guys go there with each other. Have it on your mind at all times and when the opportunity presents itself address it. — Yeah. — Got it? Mhm. — So like because it's always on both of your minds after this podcast that we're now going to be counter punchers. Let's say you like this idea. Then that would mean that one of you may know something. You may over here in the office that her meeting got cancelled and you may realize ah you know I'm just doing mundane email that I and I have a flight tomorrow where I can catch up on email and you can text her and be like hey let's go take a walk and it's nice outside. Let's go take the walk now. God you see where I'm going. — Do not let your calendar or your ideology control you. Let the reality control you. It's more that the calendar just serves as a reminder, but then it's like we don't it's hard to find that time. — I'm going to say it again. — Never a moment where I'm doing Monday. — But I love what you're saying though, — but there has to I'm sorry. Go ahead. hate the idea now of regularly scheduled meetings because I'll realize the day before I'm like man I wish I could just talk about this right now or like do this thing right now cuz I think that actually the regular reminder is important cuz like just looking at the week and being like oh this week we're supposed to be reflecting on like our progress makes me in that moment think and then if there's something that spurs like we should talk about this then I naturally I'm like let's just talk about it now like if we're having lunch let's do it over our lunch but you don't need to wait until the regularly scheduled meeting. Like if there's something top of mind, I think you should just address it. — Look, I think this is back to the purple of it all. Like scheduling's awesome. Being human and serendipitous is awesome. And find that balance — and okay, I want to run our Birkin marketing idea by him. We can cut this. But we Okay, — so one idea we had is we wanted to put a Birkin in like a glass thing and run it through Times Square with a QR code on

### Growth hacking vs. the marathon mindset [54:38]

the front of it. And then if you download FIA and you go through the whole onboarding process, you can basically like opt into the giveaway, right? — I think the thing you have to think about immediately is what kind of user you're going to get from that. — Yeah. — Like it'll feel good on the numbers, but it's classic. The thing I learned about email in 1997, uh, how many people were on the email was important, but what was way more important was how many opened it. — So what would you if you — Go ahead. — Do you think there's a better space to do it? Sorry, I'm asking. — No, this is fun. This is, by the way, this is what I live for. So, let's fire away. Heck, I think you should have it on the podcast. — We're going to get a different user than if we were walking around Soho. — There there's that that, by the way, you took it to that place that would definitive like they're not right. Understand the value. — Yours is layer one. That's layer two. Both are valid — and yours. This is why these kind of meetings are fun. We can get there is a place to get with this thing that you're talking about. There is a place to get to and yes, I would do it. Soho when we figure out what that thing is. You know what I mean? So yeah, I think the thing that people get caught up in is growth hacking for the sake of growth hacking. — Like listen again kind of talking about what I've observed for what has worked for me and I also talk a lot about a lot of things and I never use myself as the only proxy. The other thing that I've seen from the people who've been able to be consistently successful or relevant or executing is off of one basis. If you are obsessed with the marathon versus the sprint, you have a shot because it is a actual marathon. — So if you are able, let me give you a perfect cliche thing that you might be dealing with. If the reason this concept is popping up is because you're like, wait a minute, like we're it could be one of two things. we're rolling and let's put fuel on the fire. Or wait a minute, we we had this great like last two months, but like we can feel that it's slowing down a little bit. We need something to like get it because you were addicted to the growth you had the prior eight weeks or 15 weeks. Both of those need to be like really thought and understood. Like for example, my personal brand, I just sat here and told you that for the last 18 months, it's been oh, you know, — yeah, — and that was okay. Like I don't need to be the hottest top of- mind person of the moment in my genre. It's okay when other people are having that moment because I'm over here, but I'm also like, "Hey, wait a minute. I like what the Gary Vee brand does for me for business as a top of the funnel thing. " So, hey, I'm going to now after 18 months, I'm going to go back. This was something I said no to consistently for 18 months. — Podcasting that were emerging or the top podcast in the world. The answer was no cuz this hour, you know this, Mike, you watched me in my office 9 to 9:00 p. m. all 12 months last year. Period. M — and so but now because I'm like okay I got off what I needed there. I feel good about the pieces and the people I put in place. I'm like ready. So here I am. — Same advice I want to give for you guys which is like make sure you know why you're doing it and then make sure you know who you're getting out of it. The reason I love content and social content is the clip like and this is actually a very big one for you guys. Don't get addicted. This is actually very good advice that I wish I'm going to start giving more of this advice. Don't make the clip just for the maximizing of views. Some of my favorite pieces of content for me are the least performing views content I put out because I had a purpose of what I wanted out of it. So, let me give you an example. This may not be on your radar, but I am building a Pokemon Sesame Street Disney Marvel like brand called V Friends. 280 characters, patient panda, you know, like I'm really excited about intuitive iguana. It's like a real world. — Yes. I have to I got you. So, I'm really excited about it when I put out a piece of content where I'm asking people to buy stickers or trading cards or stuffed animals because I'm like I feel comfortable back to a book I wrote called Jab Jab Right Hook. If you're giving and giving and giving to your audience, like I think an appropriate podcast for you would be the entire podcast is four minutes and you're just telling your audience. A lot of you have not downloaded the app. We love you and like it would mean the world to the two of us if you all would download the app and really play with it and give us your feedback. That's a productive podcast. Like a standal, not a pre-roll, not a midroll, not oh Gary, thank you for doing that for us right now. And I mean it. Everybody, please download the app. No, I mean an actual How long are your podcasts usually when you put them out? — Three minutes. — Great. When I wake up and I'm addicted to your podcast and I see there's a threeminute podcast. I'm like, that's interesting. — And it's like just titled The Ask — and you're just being very honest with them. Here's what I will tell you happen. What would happen if you do this and listen to me? It would not get the most listens of all time, but [ __ ] Christ would it get a lot of downloads. — And that's okay. So sometimes I'm getting 800,000 a million views consistently on my content and then I'll post something that gets 110,000 but 400 of those people bought a t-shirt or started watching the cartoons with their kids or bought a stuffed animal like you see where I'm going. So like you've got to mix it up. The only KPI can't just be brand and awareness. M — it sometimes it's okay for it to be a business ask and it the more you give them the more likely when you go in for a business ask it will do well. — That's so funny you said that. We had the exact same conversation yesterday with our friend who came in and like staged an intervention with us who said you guys have been so focused on brand building on your Instagram. Like you're giving people all this content about fashion, your own personal stories, whatever. why are you not directly telling them here's what the app does can you download it and we were like oh we don't want to seem too like asky be too salesy like we're building a community and he was like well if you're really building a community that supports you they should be okay with also understanding like you want them to download the app and I was like you're so right we need to go make a video right now being like this is why we built this is what it does please download it instead of being like here are the best trends of the month — yeah and by the way if you do that 95% to 5%. To your friend's point, I don't know what point he or she was making, but if you're 100% and zero and now you've been doing it long enough, — like if you were on day three of the podcast and content, I'd be like, don't do that at all. Like do a year's worth of brand building and community value. — But think about actually here's a good way to for everyone at home if you're debating this. Think about the person you love the most in your family because they're the biggest giver without expectation. Like it's not manipulation. They're just they're the giver in your family. Mhm. — Think about the times if this has ever happened cuz some people give too much like that they've asked for something. You're like thrilled to do it for them. — Yes. — Right. If you're thinking right now about And by the way, you can extend this to your friends, right? Let's say your person has five friends. If the friend of that bunch that's never asking, never bothering, never selfish, if every five years they're like, "Hey, can you like watch my house? " You're like, "I'll walk there and watch your house. " — Yeah. — It's called relationships. Yeah, — you have a relationship with this audience. You guys have consistently. And by the way, I would do brand over everything every day of the week, but you've got to sprinkle the occasional ask, especially when you have what you have in place, which is you have a very good app in place. It's clearly bringing value to people. You're proud of it, I assume. Right. Sometimes people ask me because during certain drops after not asking for anything I may do a four or five posts about like hey buy the trading cards or buy what you know and then like by the fourth one people like Gary you [ __ ] changed you sold out like I thought you were about giving. I'm like bro look at the breath of it. — I you know what I mean? But what I'm saying is that's okay. And I say to them, I'm like, "Hey, I understand that and you're allowed to feel that way. " And listen, if you don't want to watch my content anymore because I asked after 4,000 pieces of content for you, I've asked for three for me. You're allowed, but this was one exchange I had recently. He's like, "Yeah, but you feel so s" And I'm like, after not feeling s I'm like, "But I feel proud to sell this. — I believe that if more children collect V friends, we will have a more purple society. I want to teach seven-year-olds to fall in love with accountable aunt because I think too many parents are not teaching accountability. And if little Johnny in New York City falls in love with accountable aunt and has accountable aunt pajamas when he's 19, he may be like, "Accountability is cool. " And once he understands what accountability means, — I believe accountability literally leads to happiness. I believe that. — I really believe that in the soul of my life. And so which is different than beating yourself up, — right? Accountability doesn't mean [ __ ] on yourself. My biggest issue in the world actually more than loving accountability. I'm so sad that so many of you are so hard on yourself. I wish — social media is a highlight reel of what you see. Even my social media is a complete highlight reel. I don't post when the business isn't doing well. our when we have, you know, our we post now our feedback dinners where we invite 40 women to the office to give feedback. But oh man, after that first feedback dinner, we were not posting that because the entire thing crashed and we had 40 women there and it was so bad that they like left. I had to ask people to leave because it was so bad and me and Sophia literally locked ourselves in a bathroom. It was awful. WE HAD TO REDO EVERYTHING. I don't post that. — Yes. But I would say that's fine. Taking it a different angle. If social media is bringing you down, right, the first point you made, well, this is why do you think I want to make accountable ant so popular? — Delete it. Like this is real talk right now. This is actually very exciting. And by the way, when I do podcasts like this, like right now I'm zeroing in. I'm like hoping one girl's like on the treadmill listening and like I get so obsessed when I'm on a podcast that I'm doing it for one person. If I can get one person to do what I'm about to say, it will change the course of their actual life. I believe that which is the following. When you get out of saying it's social media's fault, it's Instagram's fault. Right? and you say, "Hey, if I can feel myself getting down because all I'm seeing is highlights on Instagram and that makes me feel insecure. Oh my god, I can actually delete it. " — Here's my excuse. We do need it for business. The thing is, if I wasn't working on a company where attention matters and our community so much and I need to in my DM talking to girls who have like the load time's too long, that's like important for me. — I agree. By the way, you're talking to the human on earth, the human — who has most used social in the last 20 years for business — and who does not use it for personal at all. — Yeah. — I do not consume — how do you like do you don't any at all? — I consume media at scale every day. Not as a normal human. When I see someone doing something, I'm not like, oh, I'm FOMOing and I suck. I'm like, why are they doing that? Why are I do it from a business lens? — Research. — I don't see like I don't use it like a normal. In fact, if I was not in the business of business or marketing, I would be one of the humans that wouldn't have it. Not because I think not% — agree. — Not that, by the way, I want to say something else because I'm countering the counter here. Not that I think it's bad. I'm just a person that isn't that inherently interested or I'm not nosy. I'm not a yenta. I never took pictures my whole I don't like pictures. Like I just it just I like texting with my friends in my group chat or like FaceTime like I just wouldn't use it that much. — I'm dating a guy who literally doesn't have Instagram. Like he deletes it. — Of course. — It's amazing. It's the best thing ever. — Yes. — And this is completely new for me. I've never been with someone like this. And I'm like, "Okay, well sit on down, bud. Let me show you the new video that we just dropped on the account. " So you're going to sit here and you're gonna watch it. And he's like, "Okay. " Like, but I honestly having him not be on social media is so great. — Yeah. I mean, A, he sounds handsome. B, um, this is what's going to happen. People are going to eb and flow. Like, there was a whole societal push and I was there at that time where everybody was getting on it. Now people are understanding what's good and not good for them. — Like, by the way, that's why I said earlier before you jumped in, like I wouldn't be on it, but I think it's the best if you know how to control it. This goes back is alcohol good or bad, right? Is a very fun thing to think about. Don't forget this country, America, had prohibition. We banned alcohol because we blamed the alcohol. And the question becomes for some people it's very bad. They become addicted to it and it creates tough situations. For other people, right, it is having one cocktail is an incredibly nice part of their life and they decide it's good. I mean, forget about health benefits. Like there's always like sugar. — Should we ban sugar in America? My belief is in the human race. So most of the things I'm going to tell you I believe in education and accountability, — not just education is cliche, right? We're like we got to educate about everything. I think the thing we've lost in the last 50 years is accountability — cuz I find honestly like for me personally like I prefer taking a gummy and going to dinner than like having a cocktail or having two cocktails. — That's awesome. — They're now saying the health benefits of it are better too. — That's awesome. — It's not that way for other people. I you're also talking to somebody who literally has never done any single drug in. I've never smoked a cigarette. — But that's because my mom got super Nancy Reaganed out. — Say no to drugs. And I grew up, don't forget, my mom grew up in the Soviet Union where everyone was an alcoholic. So in my family, for my life, it was so demonized drugs and alcohol. — I do drink cuz I grew up in the wine business and fell in love with that. Had my dad not had a liquor store and sold food, I believe I'd be telling you right now that I don't do drugs or alcohol. I didn't drink a beer in high school or college. It was only when I got into the wine business and fell in love with the concept of collecting wine which led me to tasting actually being like very knowledgeable wine. — It's really fun. Yes. 100%. You got it. — And we need the Gary Vee like I keep it to 10. Just run us down on the wine. — I will do it. And so what's by the way what's super fun is I did a thousand episodes of Wine Library TV. So, for everybody at home, because I for context, I started a wine show on YouTube in 2006 where most of you guys were in diapers. And so, I'm putting all 1000 into an LLM. There's going to be a Gary Vee AI app giving you wine recommendations on the spot when you take a photo of the wine list going out with my actual recommendation. What I'm curious about though is you did well a that's extremely cool but b I thought it was so interesting that you did what for like a year and a half all of these weekly episodes and you were getting like 30 50 views and you kept going like how did you develop that muscle of consistency without seeing the progress? — I'm not doing anything in my life for outside validation. — Nothing. You would be the more we get to know each other, the more you will be flabbergasted on my complete and utter detachment from Gary Vee and my business success. — Everything in my life is good because I don't want to do anything for anybody besides myself and my family. — Do you think that there's a level of wealth that you get to where you're like, "Okay, I've made it. This is enough for me. " — Yes. A 100,000 a year. The only time I ever felt like something was enough for me was when I made 100,000 a year when I was like 33. That was the only point and because that was as a kid you grew up that was the number. Now these poor kids are like we got to make 10 million a year. I'm like Jesus Christ. Listen I want to be very transparent here. I got very fortunate in DNA circumstances of growing up with nothing. I grew was when we moved to America we lived in a studio apartment the size of literally not this this. — And so I was born hungry. I wasn't fed. So it me and my home was so loving that it taught me that money had no variable on happiness. — So you know I just got very fortunate of the roll of the dice of DNA circumstances, motherhood, Jersey boy, you know, very lower middle class. Like everything shaped up for me to be who I am, which is why I'm so passionate to talk about these things with the hope that I can change some people's perspective. You know, I wish you knew me at 19. You're not getting what I'm saying to you at 49 because I made it. Making it. And you know this because of the way you grew up. Money and fame do not change you. — They expose you. — Yeah. — Right. Like I promise you kids, this is as good of a thing I've said on this podcast. I'm not chill now because I've in fact I would in fact actually I don't know how politically correct this is these days but the more money more problems I would argue that I was even more happy and more chill — at 23 making 34,000 a year I was just I what I got really lucky at and what I wish on all of you out there right now besides health is liking what you're doing at all times. M you know we met Tyler who said that yes who said that he works with you and he said that you are always working and the first time he ever saw you take a break was when you were on your honeymoon. So I wanted to ask you about work life balance. What are your what's your advice to people on that? — That it's a personal thing. I like I don't think me working all the time is right. It's right for me because I would rather be working at 700 p. m. than golfing than skiing than watching a movie. Like I like it so much. It is my actual hobby. — Mh. — So don't let someone else's opinion on work life balance and like what is work life balance? Is 9 to5 Monday through Friday, right? Is it 9 to6? Is it 8 weeks vacation? Is it one? Like every one of us room are going to have a different you. Plus it changes as you go through your life. Today you're work. You guys are in it right now. — Yeah. Love it. — Of course. That's what I'm saying. You're in it. But then you're going to meet the handsome guy who's not on Instagram. It might lead to something like your life's going to evolve, right? things are going to happen. You're gonna have things happen in your life. Your world will change, right? And wi with that things will change. You're allowed to change your mind. I actually fantasize a lot about wake because I do everything based on how I feel. I kind of weirdly fantasize a lot about waking up and having like a weird like just like waking up and being like, you know, like I'm out fully out because I because I almost like I don't think that's going to happen knowing my DNA, but I secretly want it for conversation cuz I'd love to tell the world of like why I did that because I don't think they understand. It goes back to like are you like this now? No, I'm like this because like I made money because of how I was. — Got it. because I didn't care about it, it made me better at it. — Right? Like let's talk about guys just for a second. Guys that are not scared of rejection of coming up to a girl do better. Right. Like when you're not scared, this goes back to the overarching theme of a lot. We've talked about from the beginning of where the world's going in technology to te to posting to not getting views. Basically, if you take this ingestion of all this audio and put it into AI and say, "What's the macro theme of this podcast? " It's eliminating fear. — I also think like something that I was curious about for you is you obviously have invested a lot of time and energy into building your personal brand and you also have this enormous business. How do you divide those two priorities? — By ebon flowing. — Okay. — I literally we broke it down here. Sometimes it's 18 months of the companies and sometimes it's in 2017 it was Gary Veeheavy and sometimes it's balanced and by how 50/50 8020 9010 by not overjudging myself if I have the right ratio unlike you two ladies I was a terrible student — and so for me I don't have student tendencies — I don't think there's a work — I think there's listening to yourself and self-awareness and eb and flowing And here's the big one, back to the whole theme. All the mistakes, I don't dwell on them. — They don't hurt me. In fact, I'm a little weird. I kind of like losing. — I like, and not like the cliche like, "Oh, I learned it's not losing. " No, no. I like the humility that comes along with it. I like the punch in the face. I like the, "Hey, Gary, you think you're [ __ ] big shot? Like, [ __ ] you. Here's the game. You were wrong. " And I'm like, "Yeah, I was wrong. " You know, like I kind of am I'm in a good place with that [ __ ] M but do you think that like would your advice be to entrepreneurs to simultaneously build a personal brand and to work on the business? Like how do you measure ROI of me having my personal brand is beneficial for the business or it's a distraction? — You're too smart for that. The cat's out of the bag. When I was saying this stuff, the answer is you do both. I actually don't see creator and entrepreneur as separate things anymore. I think it's all blending. And I'm saying you're too smart because this was my thesis 15 years ago and I got made fun of it. You guys are living on how do you measure the ROI? Did you see the cosmetics company that just sold for a billion dollars? — 100%. — Come on. What are we talk right? Is p is prime is Emma Chamberlain's coffee doing like I mean I don't honestly I feel it's disrespective to your audience to even debate this. If this was a 90-year-old audience or a 70-year-old audience, I would talk about this for 20 minutes. Anybody who's under the age of 30 — that does not understand that personal brand equity layered into a business has ROI in it is literally tonedeaf. — I want to steal something from you that you — 100% agree and I'm so glad I was like I want to saying that and have the audience cuz it's really not a distraction. People want to like buy from people. — I want to copy a quote that you said to me when we got drinks. I just want to say this because I thought this is the thing that like keeps living in my mind is you said as tech continues to advance the only thing that's going to matter is the personal brand because — brand — because is the brand — because the tech is going to become t — come on face — and right now you know it took us you know a year to build what FIA is today. There's still a lot of work to do to be honest. — Of course you're — but like the only thing that matters is the distribution power. the fact that people want to install it because it says something about who they are. For that girl who's living in Brooklyn who likes to thrift, for the girl on the Upper East Side who's really into her clothes and her shoes and her jewelry, if you feel like you're a stylish woman, you want to install our app because it says something intrinsically about who you are as a person. — That's the only thing that matters to start. — Yes. — And then the second part that matters, as you know, is it better than the other options? — Exactly. Tech is going to become stable. — I believe that is true, especially in a mature AI world. data is going to be important. But yeah, the tech — I actually would argue data is commoditized too. I really believe that like I can get to your customer — without your data. — I agree with that. But let's say you're like a healthcare like you're a diagnostics tool for breast cancer. — That's fair. I mean, look, any absolute statement like I just made always is going to have some counter. In the scheme of things, data is stunningly come up. first-party data did not end up being the moat that everybody predicted it would be because there's too many companies that have too much scaled first-party data. — And more importantly, what happens when you have first party data? You then still have to communicate to the consumer. — Yeah. — So, if you're overlaying your one P data, but you're running the ads on Facebook and Facebook has unlimited data for me to get that same Upper East Side girl and thrift girl in Brooklyn. What the [ __ ] was the punch line? — Yeah. — Got it. — The same thing's going to happen with tech. What is the main takeaway that you would want the audience to get from this podcast? — That every single person that's listening right now is literally living in the greatest era of humanity and the opportunity is uncomfortable and you should be concerned and thoughtful. But please do not let it [ __ ] you from the truth that the opportunity is a the situation of social at scale with AI emerging and about to hit scale at the same time is literally and actually the greatest thing that has ever happened to a 15 to 35year-old living at that time with this stuff in place. — What should they do? — They should a first, which is the point I'm making, believe what I'm saying. Like first they have to ask themselves, do they think I'm full of [ __ ] or do they actually see what I see? And then B, they should lean into self-awareness and passion. — You know, one thing I like about what you guys are doing, hence what has like brought me to this seat today, is that I think you like what you're making. You're not just chasing where you think the money is. — And I think you can build much better things for yourself. Whether you're being an entrepreneur or whether you're picking a job or whether you're deciding to be a stay-at-home dad, like I don't know. Like everything's allowed. But this is the time of optionality. — Like you should first start, you know, you guys are lucky, the generation above you, and even you guys actually, but we're starting to chip away at the fact that at 22 you have to have your whole life figured out and like you have to be a grown-up on the day after your college graduation. 22 to 30 is when you should do the highest risk [ __ ] in your life cuz you can live on nothing with seven [ __ ] 22 year olds if you want, right? you have no responsibilities there. You're not worried about paying your mortgage for your children to go to this is so my advice and the wrap-up is this is a huge time of opportunity. Start with things that actually get you going your passions and understand why social plus AI can create everything you want. — Well, I learned a lot. We're going to be making a lot of changes. a lot of things that we're doing. — Can we stop for a minute and go through our marketing stuff to get you to roast it and tell us what to do? — Yeah. And back to the point of this, like not even roast it. Like, you know, it's funny like — we've gotten to, you know, like cuz it's not roasting cuz notice how we even talked about the Burka thing. I didn't roast it. I dissected it of like why and what. Like I'm making a point here. It's my purple point. I want to get out of, you know, red and blue land. And words matter, you know, like I would never roast it. I'm aware that I've been doing marketing for 35 years and have like I should — we want your expertise — correct? And I also want to understand your psychology. Notice how when we did the Burka thing, I'm like why? and like hey did you contemplate and hey that was later like that's the level in general to be honest that's another thing that we just need a lot more in society less quick and more thoughtful you know like I didn't go like oh no way like it's more like hey why this that and so yes it would be my pleasure — ask good questions well Gary Vee thank you so much for coming on the burnouts today — thank you ladies — I'm the youngest person on your team — we have a residency program like we have a lot of I mean rips Seven is Oh, Russ is 21 now, but he was 17 when he started. Like, we're a as long as not we're not breaking the law. We're — I would hire a 12-year-old if I could. — This is so real. — He said, "Would we if they got on? " — Of course. I mean, like because it's real. Because, by the way, I would have been a dominant 12-year-old employee. — Why aren't we rolling? — Mike's rolling. Probably. Yeah, — he got the clip. You'll see that.