# No Ads, No Algorithms, No Data Mining? | A Conversation with Ayman Hariri of VERO

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Gary Vaynerchuk
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI
- **Дата:** 29.06.2023
- **Длительность:** 23:31
- **Просмотры:** 15,798

## Описание

On this episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience, I am joined by Ayman Hariri, the co-founder and CEO of the social network VERO. You probably remember VERO’s moment of virality in 2018, but we caught up with Ayman to see what’s to come for VERO in 2023 and beyond. Check out this episode if you're interested in learning more about VERO and be sure to visit their website https://vero.co/. Hope you enjoy!

—
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Keynotes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vCDlmhRmBo&list=PLfA33-E9P7FCEF1izpctGGoak841XYzrJ
NFTs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwMJ6bScB2s&list=PLfA33-E9P7FAcvsVSFqzSuJhHu3SkW2Ma
Business Meetings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wILI_VV6z4Y&list=PLfA33-E9P7FCTIY62wkqZ-E1cwpc2hxBJ
Gary Vaynerchuk Original Films: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfA33-E9P7FAvnrOcgy4MvIcCXxoyjuku
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— 
Gary Vaynerchuk is a serial entrepreneur, and serves as the Chairman of VaynerX,  the CEO of VaynerMedia and the Creator & CEO of VeeFriends.

Gary is considered one of the leading global minds on what’s next in culture,  relevance and the internet. Known as “GaryVee” he is described as one of the most forward thinkers in business – he acutely recognizes trends and patterns early to help others understand how these shifts impact markets and consumer behavior. Whether its emerging artists, esports, NFT investing or digital communications, Gary understands how to bring brand relevance to the forefront. He is a prolific angel investor with early investments in companies such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Venmo, Snapchat, Coinbase and Uber. 

Gary is an entrepreneur at heart — he builds businesses. Today, he helps Fortune 1000 brands leverage consumer attention through his full service advertising agency, VaynerMedia which has offices in NY, LA, London, Mexico City, LATAM and Singapore.  VaynerMedia is part of the VaynerX holding company which also includes VaynerProductions, VaynerNFT, Gallery Media Group, The Sasha Group, Tracer, VaynerSpeakers, VaynerTalent, and VaynerCommerce. Gary is also the Co-Founder of VaynerSports, Resy and Empathy Wines. Gary guided both Resy and Empathy to successful exits — both were sold respectively to American Express and Constellation Brands. He’s also a Board Member at Candy Digital, Co-Founder of VCR Group, Co-Founder of ArtOfficial, and Creator & CEO of VeeFriends. Gary was recently named to the Fortune list of the Top 50 Influential people in the NFT industry. 
In addition to running multiple businesses, Gary documents his life daily as a CEO through his social media channels which has more than 34 million followers and garnishes over 272 million monthly impressions/views across all platforms.  His podcast ‘The GaryVee Audio Experience’ ranks among the top podcasts globally.  He is a five-time New York Times Best-Selling Author and one of the most highly sought after public speakers.

Gary serves on the board of MikMak, Bojangles Restaurants, and Pencils of Promise. He is also a longtime Well Member of Charity:Water.

## Содержание

### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI) Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00)

I need one place where I know all 837 000 are definitely gonna see this because I'm getting guaranteed delivery that makes a ton of sense it's why I continue to have an email service and it's why I have Community detect service I'm extremely excited for this next guest uh I think this will be a very fruitful conversation and I think uh it's going to bring a lot of value to this specific uh podcast that we're putting out this special so my friend why don't you tell everybody your name what you do uh and then we'll get right into it my name is Eamon Hariri I'm the CEO and co-founder of Vero so for the people that don't know out there uh why don't you tell us what Vero is and a little bit about the history so Vero was established as a an alternative social Network online that really differentiates itself mostly by not doing uh any ads or data mining so we have a chronological feed creators can post what they want to their followers they gain access to 100 of their followers without the platform manipulating the feed in any way so it's a fully chronological feed and um we're not doing ads we're not in the attention economy at all we're in the subscription uh business we haven't turned subscription on to anybody that joins Vero today gains access to Pharaoh for life without ever paying a subscription but then when we turn so there's the Arbitrage Dustin get that BMX Channel up now if because he's going to clearly turn on subscription at some point but you can be locked in perpetuity yeah in perpetuity that's right noted go ahead and then later on when we do turn on subscription it's going to be a very small amount that people will pay a yearly fee or a monthly fee and it's really for us to just keep the platform honest for us to be serving our users having them be our customers rather than advertisers be our customers where we have to constantly try to get the attention of the users to use the platform so that they can see ads so what's your take on this question do you believe that the subscription so we as people who post on social will be paying 9. 99 13. 99 29 9900 whatever it ends up being um but we get 100 of the audience that decides to follow us to see it which is extremely different than it is today yeah more like email right exactly right do you believe if I asked you for foreshadow for me do you think in 10 years that a Creator like myself do you think I'll have one of each meaning or I'll probably be on several platforms but or not do you actually that's actually the question do you believe that most people in 10 years will have a social network that they're paying for a subscription and one that looks more like the ones that are out here today where there's an algorithm and ads and things that nature or do you think one or the other beats out the other in a model yeah it's a it's a great question I'm not here to replace everything and be the be-all end-all with our platform I think what we're trying to establish is choice and a choice that gives you more value for the time that you're putting into the platform whether you're a user and our customer using the platform and getting the most value for the time that you're spending or a Creator like yourself who's spending time making content thinking about ideas thinking about a roll out having a team and all of those how does the user get value so the user should get value for the kind of content that they're getting whether it's um it whether it's content from their friends that's personal and meaningful to them at that level or from creators that are providing value to them through the whatever it is that they're getting across whether it's entertaining whether it's teaching them something whatever it is but that's something they're able to get in other platforms now absolutely okay but without the ads and without all of the which is exactly for a lot of people no absolutely so from the user's side the people consuming no ads high value products in comparison to what's out there for the creators uh there's a value in that everyone's gonna actually see it of the audience imass absolutely um is there ways to offset your subscription costs yeah that's an interesting question so we just recently um we recently acquired a company called tokenize which is a regulated Stock Exchange and you may say okay what what's why is a social network buying a stock exchange and the whole idea there is for the community to end up having a chance of owning a piece of the platform and doing it in a regulated way that has us do it where it's all legal and you can start to earn

### [5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI&t=300s) Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00)

shares in the company now details uh will come out in the future in the near future I mean we just acquired this company and we merged it into the social network and it's really the first time anybody's done this and where our heads at is we're building this for the community rest of the world not for us to own and reap the benefits of that by ourselves but for us to be joined by the creators who get to earn a piece of the platform by bringing in people who start to pay for Content or pay for their channels or whatever else or pay for the app but also for those users who are coming in and making a decision that they want an alternative platform they're paying a subscription you know wouldn't it be great if they could earn shares in the company as well take me back to the history of the platform because I know you know and I notice how quickly my team shakes their head because we watch everything and I mean everything there was a moment of what I would call Micro virality for this platform can you take me back to when that exactly was because it feels like five or six years ago right and what you know a how deeply if at all were you involved at that point because it's blurry in my head if like you came in later and bought a piece or you're actually there for day one you know like I could see by your body everybody listening to body language no so you were there what was behind the micro virality of it because there was a few minutes there where it was really spiking and it was happening for a period of weeks or months I remember very vividly sure and this is a big compliment there the in the history not what I feel like I'm gonna be in like a lot of documentaries when I'm older in the history of social networks obviously we know the ones we all know there's things like Vine that really had it but they've sold in a year uh and unlike what meta did with Instagram Twitter decided to shut down Vine um but there are very few social networks that have even gotten to that point where they've had a moment what was that and obviously after it happened it was probably easier to figure out why it happened or maybe not because virality is interesting but what was that when was that and how did it happen yeah it's uh I I've definitely been there since day one I can show you the scars on my back to show that and the white hairs in my beard uh to also show that but um what happened in 2018 and that's when uh the virali yeah 2018. if covet I feel must have made me like God was it really only as re I would have like lost that bet yeah I thought it was longer than that when did it come out so 2015 is when we put it in the IOS app store I think I might have wrote an article and it came uh after that on Android and now we're on iPad and desktop is a beta for the time being in Android as well but we're coming out of beta soon on Android so uh in 2018 what happened was we were experimenting with ads like we were actually just trying a few ads and letting people know about us uh to increase the number of installs per day and just see if we you know what would happen if we put out a message that says no ads no algorithms and no data money that's it I mean that's the chronological feed yeah we just put those four uh phrases in different uh small video clips and just put them out as ads and um and I didn't spend that much on it either and as you said we became number one app in the world that's crazy so it was really I think it we turned all the ads off at that point because we couldn't handle the load that was the major part that um brought things back down but we sort of learned from that it doesn't take much to especially with what it is that we're doing to get a lot of attention and I think now more than ever people are seeking an alternative we haven't done any real advertising since then yes and we made a decision a conscious one to build the tech stack that is scalable to keep building on community which is what we've been doing so all the growth that you're seeing in the platform the six and a half million users and above that we have now have all been organic um and now we've just introduced the investment stack which we're very excited about because well it's a massive Innovation well and it gives a return for the time that you're spending on social especially for the creators or bringing so much value to the platforms that they decide to use but they don't get access to the equity

### [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI&t=600s) Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00)

value in the platform they get different value they do which is it's actually Jerry rigged on to the existing platforms because of course it's sponsored posts it's this and that or the stuff they do off platform or the stuff that they do on platform like Fame is real yes so once you build it like Charlie demilio makes a lot of money because of what happened on Tick Tock outside of things she does on tick absolutely but to your point for a smaller group this infrastructure would create an extreme long tail of opportunity correct and we're going after the everyday creator that wants to make money and wants to make um a living off of the thing that they're passionate about and they don't need that much but what's interesting is when we look at you know if I sit and told you right now that somebody had a thousand followers you'd say okay that that's cool but you know that's on the Lower Side of the Spectrum you've got people who've got hundreds of millions of followers and so but I mean of course to anybody who wants to make a living doing it absolutely for a lot of people listening right now like I'm [ __ ] kill for a thousand followers no absolutely for normal every day but like of course if someone wants to make a living a thousand is going to be on the extreme low side exactly and but when you start to look at uh whether it's subscription or backers of your project whatever that may be that's a lot of people who you know who I always I love you for that because man back in the day I was like do you understand what 80 115 people that want to see what you have to say looks like physically you put 815 people in an auditorium and you speak in front of them you know you'd be like holy crap I made it but in this world you're like I'm an imposterous into my son I'm like you don't suck but to your point you know as we go into the Commerce part of the conversation with the blockchain enables potentially over time uh and obviously when I hear you talk about what you're talking about it's famous of what's going on in the U. S with the SEC and what's going on in Europe like clearly the governments around the world Hong Kong this and China that and you ask this the regulation and the understanding of cryptocurrency and nfts is kind of a little bit unclear it seemed clear and it got it kind of like took a step backwards seemed in 1920 like things were kind of pretty obvious with coinbase going public and things in nature but clearly we've taken a step back of like you know people just don't know what so obviously you going specific to you know an actual stock market enables you to actually punch those two together yeah absolutely I think how does that work for people that live in countries where it's not as clear like obviously the stock market that you bought is not in the U. S right that's right so like what does that mean for someone that lives in London or Amsterdam or for someone who lives in the U. S will they have is there gonna be a little period of time of clarity if they're gonna be able to interact with those Commerce realities yeah we'll make all of those things clear whenever anything that happens on the stock market we'll make sure that things are clear but definitely going down the path of Regulation gets you there further it's harder to do obviously upfront but it's nice to have Clarity exactly and then you just have um a system just as a guy paying attention since you did that what you've got to tell you on like what's your bet on the governments around the world to actually have Clarity on cryptocurrencies and blockchains and nfts which are hot take do you think it's another two three four years of you know politicking and government stuff before we as a society of 8 billion have Clarity of where and what and how we can do things look I think there is Clarity around what is a security I think the problem is that we're starting you know we're what's colliding right now is are us being used to things happening quickly yes and being able to be instanced on the internet yes and for that to be the disrupting uh force and enough of a disruptor that all of this old you know sort of law or whatever it is gets changed yes the reality is that these things have been put in place to protect investors yes so these laws are there to Def or rather to back up the usage of something called the security and the security is one of actually one of the best inventions in the world it allows us to own shares in things that exist and we get to back them reap the benefits of them so what we're trying to do is we're trying to marry that concept with this endless supply of creativity that's out there whether it's the creativity that uh creates a song that could be a hit or a movie um or any kind of business and hopefully in the future we've had Publishers yeah Publishers absolutely players Banks upfront economics right exactly and obviously the blockchain is going to

### [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI&t=900s) Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00)

have an incredible opportunity to create innovation in that scheme yeah and all block what blockchain does you know all blockchain does or what it does extremely well is add that layer of transparency that's the number one thing and I look at web 3 as a it's actually a set of behavior it's not a technology stack it's people deciding they want to include other people into the project that they're doing and be completely transparent and use blockchain as a transparency on the back of a profound new technology that backs up if the concept of transparency I agree if people understood action what a blockchain did versus a internet server yes the speed in whichever it actually is addressing what everyone's anxious about but it's misbranded absolutely yeah and but at the same time there's a lot of work that has to go in advance it's kind of like of course you know it's the difference between playing pool a Billiards pool and just hitting the ball and something goes in and you say look something went in yeah you have to call it out ahead of time you have to say here is what I'm doing I'm building a business that does this is what you can expect everything's at you know there's risk associated to everything Etc but this is the kind of business that I'm in or this is what this uh piece of art looks like or is valued at Etc and the more you can be transparent ahead of time and then stick to what it is that you're doing then the outcome then is you know for everybody to benefit from um parting shot what have we not talked about in this time together that you'd love for people to know about you the World blockchain Vero creativity subscription or all of the above I guess if there's a parting thought it's we're building for better we're not here um you know saying we have all the answers or we're building an alternative platform that is the platform that will take over from every other platform absolutely we want it to be one of the biggest platforms uh in the world right now and to be an alternative right why not to be a viable alternative but what we are doing is we're coming from a place that says look things have been done in a certain way up to now and we think that it's one-sided it's a win on one side we're always trying to create a win-win but for creators for the users of a platform for the platform itself and for everybody to join and be able to whoever does decide to make a move and come over to our platform they get to have a winning you know it's funny and I by the way I look my favorite word in the world is and instead of or favorite but I will say one thing I am fascinated by how much value I do think people get from free social networks that have an ungodly amount of human beings consuming you know I think it you know we talk about a Charlie demilio or Logan Paul but Jesus there is a very long tale of human beings hundreds of thousands yes who make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year B being influenced on any platforms that cost them nothing sure right I think what's exciting is I really don't think it's as one-sided I really don't I think it's more of a game of and than one-sided I for example immediately interested in the concept of having one of my platforms guarantee that all you know I would rather have Vero is a compliment to all my other social and I have a lot of social yeah sure right of course I'm sitting here and thinking and I'm like I'm getting so I'm like hey I better sign up now so I have to pay the [ __ ] subscription fee let me give them get a little microarbon but I'm like you know what this is gonna be awesome it's kind of like how I use Community the text message service sure um I'm like I'd love to have one social network that only has a million this is my standards only a million the others have more because not everyone listening actually wants to see actually every piece for me they're fine following me but they prefer it right and I do a lot of different stuff line and jets and this but that'd be really cool that's like something I actually need I need one place where I know all eight hundred thirty seven thousand are definitely going to see this because I'm getting guaranteed delivery that makes a ton of sense it's why I continue to have an email service and it's why I have Community the text service right exactly so looking forward to checking out for myself everybody you should check out Vero yeah uh and like in the app store that's how it is yeah in the Android store and uh we have an iPad app and a desktop app for some data so I know a bunch of you especially the Instagram crew of 2018 I know a bunch of you might actually have this on your phone because you were on it for like a hot minute uh would love to hear from everybody hit me up on Twitter at garyvee on your feedback on this and or do you think the social world will be in a five ten year window subscription only uh the way it is now and no subscription Services come to the

### [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqlGuR5HicI&t=1200s) Segment 5 (20:00 - 23:00)

top 10 or DC it the way we've talked about here with and where there is a subscription player and there is and look only fans patreon right sub stack like there is literally content being made that people pay for and so um and in your world it's actually the person that's making it that's paying it paying right the subscription no actually so everybody gets to everybody pays a small fee and that way it makes it sustainable the idea though of marrying it with this um tokenized Stock Exchange is that everybody also gets a piece of benefits put the uh blockchain to the password above a lot of people's pay grade in the short term but will become normalized soon in the step one though I'm not down I mean as you can imagine I'm very excited about what you're talking about there um everyone pays eventually hasn't happened yet as I heard from you that's right anybody that signs up pays yes but pays a very small amount understood as opposed to and is there any different Dynamic if you're a high volume creator of output or does that happen because of the second and everything yeah so if you're bringing a ton of traffic yeah we're not going to charge you more of course or anything like we're posting more or access to more people because right now you're posting but you're only gaining access to about three percent of your audience in our case you gain 100 access to them what about virality yeah framework is based on emails don't go viral you I just aged us yeah the kids don't [ __ ] folks uh boy kids no [ __ ] in the late 90s yeah like pre-social networks if you got people used to send random funny emails to their entire dress book and then people would send it like email was like early social like you would actually forward reply all forward anyway back to the point so cool but a lot of people have benefited by having no audience going on Tick Tock posting and then boom 800 000 that's been very beneficial to them is there a viral component to Barrow that yeah I think you're talking about Discovery and Discovery is something that we're so we're building it step by step and Discovery is absolutely something that we're building into it so if you're somebody whose content is being seen by a lot of people and is having a great reaction when you're in a discovery mode you can go and discover that kind of content and then you just discover the new creative not in your core feed because you've chosen you only choose who goes into that by the way that's how social started totally it's obviously evolved into an AI driven Discovery Model and clearly is effective because people do like passive Discovery sure but to your point I can speak for myself I am actively still a person that has to rely on email and my you know two one two nine three one five seven three one sign up now because I need a place that quote unquote guarantees it because if I want to post something that I want everybody to know about and I post it on social I gotta work super hard to make that creative as [ __ ] which is almost inherently impossible you want people to know every single time selling so it's really interesting stuff brother thank you so much thanks for having me foreign

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*Источник: https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/17104*