# Books, NFTs And The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck | Interview w/ Mark Manson

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Gary Vaynerchuk
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzv4DYgcoGk
- **Дата:** 16.01.2022
- **Длительность:** 33:39
- **Просмотры:** 60,967
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/17451

## Описание

Today’s podcast is an interview with @IAmMarkManson, the #1 NY Times Bestselling author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck. In this episode, we talk about Mark’s success as a writer, the relationship between books & NFTs, our experiences with Web2 and Web3, and our vision about the NFT Market. Enjoy!

Follow Mark On Twitter: https://twitter.com/iammarkmanson

Subscribe to my channel: https://garyvee.com/subscribe 

Timestamps:

0:00 Intro
1:25 Mark Manson Introduces Himself
3:38 Mark Experience As A Cowriter
7:03 The Impact Of The Title In A Book
8:32 A Recap Of The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck
12:20 Judgement Vs. Accountability
15:11 Why Gary Is Spending So Much Time On Veefriends
17:36 Mark Manson And His Experience With Nfts
18:52 Mark Future Plans With Nfts
20:42 Web3.0 Predictions
22:22 Books & Nfts
24:37 1999 Internet Stocks Similarities With Nfts
28:10 Mark Thoughts In Social Media & Traditional Media
30:04 The Answer Is Purple
—
#garyvee #markmanson #nfts #books #podcast

## Транскрипт

### Intro []

like watching 27 year olds say it's a fad watching 36 year olds say like i can't figure out a non-custodial wallet like i don't want a coinbase like they're scared of this the way parents were scared of putting credit cards into a computer the garyvee audio experience vaynernation what is good we are back on the podcast 2022. i'm really not planning on doing too many interviews or episodes i'm kind of i'm focused on befriends and vayner x i think the speaking the books even the content i'm down to the lowest levels this week in seven or eight years but when i get an opportunity to do a show where i think um all of you who are listening are gonna really enjoy the combo or have wanted to see the combo um i i've definitely heard through my um through my uh navigating of the world that people wanted mark and i to interact or how would we jam um and i'm really excited that he's on the show so i'm gonna let him introduce himself and how he likes to speak about himself uh i'm curious myself and then uh we'll get into a little bit of like book life because he's a beast and then maybe just shoot the [ __ ] on a bunch of different stuff so mark how are you

### Mark Manson Introduces Himself [1:25]

i'm great man it's great to be here i can't believe we've actually never talked before the amount of peop you know there's people like you and there's probably 15 other people over the last decade that you know how like it's almost like a neighbor you have you've never talked but you head nod you know like i've always felt that i had these kind of like people that ran in similar circles shared friends yeah and it was just sheer serendipity that we weren't at the same conference at the same event that you know that if we met seven years ago at a south by southwest we would talk 13 times a year versus not once for seven you know like it's one of those kind of things it's actually when kobe bryant passed i actually promised myself to slightly do a better job i've done a little bit of a better job with it but i'm such a mad scientist in my lab my family which is my real life and then professionally my laboratory and my crew around my laboratory cheer and cheer and loot for everybody on the outside but spend so little time on it so i find myself in these predicaments where but i want to be a little more thoughtful because i definitely feel like i've always loved the way people talked about you and that know you that know me so i'm happy we're here yeah me too man thanks um so quick intro um i'm actually from the blogging world i started blogging in 07 actually discovered you back in like 09 2010 um basically blew my career up going viral on facebook and twitter back in the day back when you kind of could go viral on facebook and twitter um grew a massive audience millions of readers each month parlayed that into a publishing deal books did super well have sold about 15 million books crazy numbers how many have you written uh four one self-published and then three conventionally published um the last one was i did uh i co-wrote will smith's memoir with him that came out a couple months ago um and then what was the experience what

### Mark Experience As A Cowriter [3:38]

um and then what was the experience in co-writing you know i with him it was great um i don't really aspire to be uh a memoirist or a ghost writer or anything like that it's just he was cool enough and it was the whole thing was cool enough to do he yeah he and i really hit it off and i think did you come across brad haugen in his world i know he's on the production did that name i think he works on some of the content side good friend of mine anyway keep going um but yeah i mean he and i like he was in the right spot in his career to do the book what i would call correctly you know which is like actually open up and actually get into kind of the ugly parts of his life yeah um and then i think he and i just like on a personal level our skills and personalities complimented each other really well so that ended up in i mean i'm a 90s kid so yeah he's the [ __ ] christian i get suckered into things all the time but honestly i mean it was such a great experience but it's funny because i mean now that book is done so well you know i've talked to my agent she's like you know other celebrities going to want to do stuff and people are going to reach out i'm like you know i don't know actually like i don't know if that's something i really want to focus on so it sounds horrible i if i think if you don't have the right person or if there's not a good chemistry i think it would be horrible yeah it's kind of like the way i think about vayner media like clients like it actually is hard when i talk about eating [ __ ] i don't think people really understand like having when you're creative having somebody two cooks in the kitchen is incredibly challenging yeah it's not that it's horrible i use that as a slang term for man that you want to say serendipitous and the person wants to say you know by chance like you know i love my art of being a content producer and being a businessman and have absolutely with my father my brother you know especially when it's family like that had challenges when you know i knew what i wanted to do was right but i wanted to be empathetic or have compromising capabilities or you know yeah so and it's there obviously there were moments where it's like there were certain things that i felt should be in the book or certain directions i thought certain chapters should go and it's at the end of the day it's his book yeah you know so it's good for you to have like some because some people some people with no leverage yeah and juice aren't great at having that humility you came in with some real front-facing consumer leverage you're you know obviously the reason so many people have brought you up to me is because i say the word [ __ ] so much and you obviously you know it's such a dumb reason for people to associate us but it's incredibly fair actually i've had more than a couple people ask me through the years probably five which is a lot if you think about it hey are you pissed he wrote that book like i'm like no i'm pumped he wrote that book i was like i'm like you know um not from like that more like they just really think there was a lot of crossover of beliefs and then obviously the word [ __ ] i think actually just to go right into it because there's so many marketing branding content people

### The Impact Of The Title In A Book [7:03]

you have two books with that sorry i have a cough everybody um sorry if this hurts the podcast a little bit do you think like the brilliance of what tim ferriss did i met tim around that time as well we were all kind of running around those you know yeah and he ran google adwords to figure out which title would work yeah you know obviously you know ryan holiday and others i watch how people navigate do you think the that in the title had real impact no impact some impact on the success real impact for sure i mean so that book you know you mentioned the tim ferriss thing running adwords to kind of figure out four hour work week a lot of subtle art was very much market tested through blogs yeah um so there are you know you knew what was working absolutely and that that title so i originally started writing that book with a different title and then i wrote an article called the subtle art of not giving a [ __ ] and it went [ __ ] bananas and i was like oh [ __ ] okay maybe this should be the book right um so there are a lot of sections in that book that grew out of viral blog posts you know it's like i know this works i know this like gets people yeah um let me ask you a question um want the for the people listening what is the one

### A Recap Of The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck [8:32]

two three sentence recap of the subtle art of not giving a [ __ ] the 2016 book that went bananas uh basically it's i always joke that it's a book about values but you know if i told people it was a book about values nobody would read it so you got to put [ __ ] in the title and kind of trick people into it but i mean you just you do realize you just completely in two sentences recapped my entire career i would argue in two seconds here's the thing gary the amount of [ __ ] i eat here here's the thing man and i think you and i landed in the spot for the same reason because you and i live and breathe and eat and sleep the the online social media world and what you quickly discover when you're in that world is that there's an infinite amount of stuff out there and so if you don't figure out val like if you don't discover values to sort that stuff if you don't figure out the principles of like this is what matters to me this is what's important to me and this is just crap that i'm going to ignore you're going to drown and i quickly just you know coming from a self-help angle i quickly discovered that a lot of my generation's problems a lot of the anxiety and depression and stress that my generation goes through it comes from just not figuring out what those values are what are the sorting mechanisms in your life and then when you don't have your own you're grabbing to people's grabbing to others you're completely succumbing to um outside affirmation and the second you are living for outside affirmation it's game over yeah you know it's funny i remember seeing the book in the airports because i'm always in the airports right yeah and it grabbed me too like every other human and i remember feeling a huge you know i do to my community famously talk about how little i read but i remember feeling an incredible kinship just on title i also believe so much of the world's problems is headline reading and making assumptions so like i selfishly asked you that question right now for my own self but i really do believe that getting into a comfort zone of understanding the following do the people that know me the best like me and least have a chance of liking me or not liking me is a very simple framework that can help i mean i every day i get accused of things that are not true get negativity thrown at me and i'm pretty positive communicate like i'm trying to you know but i have a style that i think rubs people the conviction and the confidence and the you know the competitiveness like i get it i understand why it lands like that i also think like alpha male energy timing is a little awkward and i'm empathetic to that those are macro trends but everything that makes it palpable that not giving a [ __ ] of course i care but it's having a structure of understanding no but do the people that know me like me and then as you get further away does it still stay as good like strangers thinking that i'm a charlatan makes sense 13 second clip on a video you know that you know but my mom thinking that that's devastating and i think there's a lot to that i think a lot about well it's also just the world that we live in now right like it's we're exposed to so many other people all the time and are exposed to us that it's unreasonable to think that everybody who comes across you is going to like you but i think there's a bigger thing i love your thought on this i think we're also in the explosion

### Judgement Vs. Accountability [12:20]

of popular culture judgment and and pushing away as fast as we can any level of accountability so judging is on fire and accountability everyone's running away from pointing fingers super fun popularized point grabbing thumbs devastating nobody wants to do it thoughts absolutely one thing i wrote about when the pandemic started was like i feel like people have this addiction to like moral righteousness like it's actually becoming a problem like i think we should become not less moral but like more amoral like withhold judgment on like what is actually good and evil because it because you're the judge when you're the judge and the jury it's a game of opinions outside of the things that most common sense nice human beings can agree on i don't think anybody's on the side of murder yeah of course but it's i think you know it's so easy to pass judgment like moral judgment on people or groups of people today and there's so little repercussions and i think that is like we've just kind of we've got this like crack addiction to moral righteousness as a culture well it makes you feel better when it feels meaningful it feels me but there's no consequences yeah i think to your point man we're going to really nerd out on this i think it it's an indicator of more collective unhappiness because i think we're in a bigger game of outside validation yeah because when you're unhappy the trigger of tearing somebody else's building down is an endorphin and a maybe not a dwarf maybe i'm using is a hit emotionally for you that helps you prop up in the short term yeah and so you know it speaks to you know it's funny people will blame technology social media things of that nature but i think it really starts to your point back to what you did in 16 it starts on values like if parents raise their children in and i'm a capitalist and i'm an entrepreneur but i love the game i'm not in it for the lambo or the watch and if you're teaching your kids that like it's all about those things like we're going to aspire to get a mercedes-benz or you know you don't you gotta lose 15 pounds because you don't look good or like all these different things everything you're doing to reinforce that the outside world's judgment matters i'm the greatest beneficiary of a mother who built me the reverse yeah nothing else mattered but what happened in our four walls and are we nice to people and to each other and call it a day yeah for sure man i actually i want to ask you a quick question very briefly at the beginning

### Why Gary Is Spending So Much Time On Veefriends [15:11]

that you're backing off on content and uh you are somebody who's created a prodigious amount of content over the years and i've also been backing off on content over the last year or two i'm curious to hear why your friends i probably won't deliver on my hyperbole in the beginning here it's that a new thing came in to my life and you only have so many hours family you know matters most then professionally which is my great hobby i gotta allocate a little piece to my dad's business because i love him too much so i gotta keep a little eye on wine library wine text and then i have a behemoth of a company over a thousand employees globally you know mexico city london aipac la new york vayner x is now a big dog that's a lot of work i'm the active ceo and i'm like an active ceo like a ceo so that takes up a ton of time the only other thing that took a time before was garyvee right speaking books content with v friends coming along it's a really tricky one because not only do i have to be the ceo operator it's a big company and you're dabbling with nfts i want to ask you about that because i saw that somewhere um that's become a huge company jesus christ it's kind of even hard for me to like wrap my head around but i also have to be it's not like vaynermedia where i didn't have to build the brand i just had to build a company i mean i could have but i built it in a b2b environment it was a whole unique strategy the friends i have to build patient panda empathy elephant you know curious coyote like i have conviction [ __ ] i have like real work to be done yeah call it you know dc comics marvel disney transformers he-man so i'm a great storyteller and marketer i believe that but i have to put that energy now into patient panda and you know an empathy elephant adventurous astronaut not into gary vee yeah that makes sense uh here's a good analogy i've got to become more walt disney than mickey mouse vince mcmahon than hulk hogan and the reason i used vince mcmahon and walt disney is you still kind they still were pop culture and away like you knew who they were they weren't the ceos of like ge you know you knew who they were but they weren't at the front of the lights yeah why what tell me what's going on in your nft stuff because you've seen that a little bit in the social sphere

### Mark Manson And His Experience With Nfts [17:36]

so i'm kind of i'm a bit behind the curve to you but uh you know i discovered nfts last year basically like dropped everything you know it start started neglecting everything in my mind are you like are you like me that way like blogging when you first saw it you're like this social that like you've got that kind of you've been looking for with that innate kind of you know something's happening and it kills me a little bit because it's you know now i've got like a team of people i've got like an online business you know we're selling courses we're doing all this stuff and like i feel bad now now it's like you know back in the day i could just drop everything and be like hell yeah nfts um now i'm like having someone welcome to my life yeah like you're getting all my 3 30 meeting is with you know like a toy retailer trying to do a huge deal for the holidays and like 345 is like we have this problem with the client our project manager is not screwed you know you're like oh man this is not yeah it's hard yeah so i i'll use this opportunity so this is this is exclusive and that this is the first it's just been publicly let's go i don't get a lot of guests i'm excited

### Mark Future Plans With Nfts [18:52]

so uh i'm gonna bring subtle art we're going to fractionalize subtle art and bring it to the nft space we're going to carve it up into a thousand individual quotes and the way the way copyright agreements work with publishers is that the publisher has his license to the full book but if it's just a quote or paragraph or a section the author can do whatever they want with it so what we're doing is we're carving up the book into individual quotes and paragraphs and then i'm basically going to uh uh give creative commons license to those individual quotes for whoever purchases it so if you buy the nfp you get the quote and then you could quote unquote do what you want with the do whatever you want with it yeah you're buying it from you i can't give the copyright you're giving the [ __ ] with all sorts of stuff but you're getting the creative commons rights kind of like flickr was back in the day when everyone was like whoa it's i'm not gonna mess with you um so yeah super excited right so when i buy a bunch of your most famous quotes yeah and then make hoodies and sell and make tons of revenue you won't send me a letter no and you're gonna be like why is gary able to sell more hoodies of my quote than we were team i wouldn't ask that about you but that's not fair enough but with some random kid on the street so this is cool i gotta get when uh when are you doing this uh looking at late february early march or we'll keep an eye on this where should people follow you look what's your twitter because i'm sure that'll be the best place to for this audience too twitter is i am mark manson i am got it what um in our ten minutes here what other things should

### Web3.0 Predictions [20:42]

entrepreneurs go getters kind of um what are some other things that we can help people with or what do you anywhere you want to take this like a fun story working with will um an insight to what's working with you on content right now because a lot of i think we have enough crossover that where you take it this audience will like so whatever you want well i'll say this i asked you the content question because i mean for me it's been a combination of discovering web3 like it's i mean i i've i've been in the crypto for many years but it always seemed it was like two ponzi-ish years ago it was all currency right like i really understand the bitcoin thesis and i'm still long at bitcoin because i think the brand is too strong yeah and nfts are so much more consumer what you and i do it's not currency it's this last year or two it's like oh [ __ ] they're actually building stuff like that let me give you an example yeah nft project gets pumped and it completely fails yeah like it went up to 4 000 a piece and then in the nft winter they're 88 bucks i in 2026 i'm gonna buy 8 000 of them and the ip and refurbish it no different than what i did with k-swiss or what happens with brands all the time with a [ __ ] coin from 2017 it pumps we have the [ __ ] winter it's dead yeah there's still an asset with nfts and a narrative that makes it very different than coins and i think that i'm really excited about when we get to that part of the story well if you think about i mean like there's so many books throughout history that

### Books & Nfts [22:22]

blew up after the author died you know or like yeah can you give us two or three because i'm not educating that's if i love that [ __ ] ah well like so like scarlet letter nathaniel hawthorne like is that true yeah or like moby dick like [ __ ] armin melville like died broke and alone like and then moby dick became the great american novel after he died you know so it's this sort of stuff happens in publishing and i'm super excited about nfts in the publishing world as well because it solves a lot of the issues actual pro like practical problems the publishing industry has and it's crazy too because like doing this are you currently i'm sorry interrupt are you currently in a book deal yes how many more do you owe them one yeah i my last book that just came out the one i sold a drillion of because i did an nft thing um i'm a free agent and i'm in the weirdest spot yeah i've had an incredible one with harper collins who do you work with harper as well amazing yeah you don't work with hollis do you uh no i don't know okay my publisher is hollis at harper business she's amazing i find myself in a crazy predicament i'm super happy there yeah comfortable what can they offer you that's the thing it's like and and i want them to right because i don't i'm doing plenty of my own stuff i'd like to have a couple places where i have some partnerships but the economics are too extreme if my next book is an nft and you get the book yeah it's crazy and it's it was fascinating to me as well because like when i first approached harper about this nft project i expected tons of pushback you know and i expected them to kind of flip out and i'd have to do damage control and to my surprise like they're i wouldn't say they're on board but they are open they are very open and curious like they're they are watching very closely well listen they saw you know one of their authors sell 1. 2 million books in a day and you and i know what that means i mean you know i'm not the you know i've done really well you've done really well those are just uncomfortable numbers crazy numbers yeah that's crazy and those are moments in time i think right now we're in internet stock 99. that's the one thing while everybody's listening just a quick

### 1999 Internet Stocks Similarities With Nfts [24:37]

did that it's almost like a disclaimer i always want to say we are the nft thing is real it'll be here forever in a big way so learn it the individual nft projects 99 of them are in beanie babies mode super hyped they're going to crash you know what else was in beanie babies mode internet stocks at 99. and that's what happened but amazon and ebay were there at seven bucks a share you could have bought them you could bought amazon for seven bucks a share before all these splits they had it's insane yeah so um nonetheless uh go ahead you were finishing a thought but i was curious if you're debating as a prominent you know author like do you sign a book deal or do you do it yourself now with nft land yeah i honestly i don't know i mean we'll see how this launch goes we'll see how the market goes i mean like you said it's there's definitely a bubble right now so like we'll hope to see how things shake out but i could totally see in like two three years from now it being a very difficult question uh answer um but what i was gonna say before that is like i feel like i'm also in this weird like no man's land because i'm so excited about web3 stuff but it also feels like it's still very frothy and new and not completely consolidated or figured out yet meanwhile like on the web 2 side on like the traditional social media and blogging and everything just feels like i don't want to say dead but like saturated right like it's the roi is so brother it's you know it's the tail as long as time the reason you and i in 07 and you did blogging the reason you found me in 09 was i would say the most frustrated i was in my career in my entire career was 2005 to 2009 because i couldn't write i still can't i can't write for a lick yeah and i saw blogging coming and i'm like and you know and i had one on kind of ecommerce and search and i'm an email for sure yeah and i was like this is gonna be huge and i knew that i was like on the sidelines with like my helmet in my hand and literally the second you know the second oh i'm sorry i'm gonna i got my timer wrong oh three two oh six oh four to oh six because the second youtube came i was on it so blistering fast that's why my wine thing worked so well because i was like okay i can use the new thing and then obviously social every app on social but you're right like it's gonna take the next tick tock to do anything in web 2 but even that is going to be a slight alteration of what we've seen since o5 web 3 is like crazy new world which is what we were learning about the internet back in the day yeah it's web 2 it just feels like you're taking the same playbook and applying it to new platforms exactly over and it in africa it's a real art like knowing the capture the art of tick tock versus instagram is a real art but to your point you're still making a short form piece of content in video form 100 and it's after 12 years or whatever like it you know it kind of you kind of just keep getting the same thing over and over whereas like web 3 it just feels like we're in like 3d chess no it's like finding america yeah you know like you thought it was just europe wait a minute it's really like that it's our version of that final thoughts give me you know i don't i feel like we may have to do this again because i want to extract what are some hot takes from a social commentator what

### Mark Thoughts In Social Media & Traditional Media [28:10]

are you seeing out there what should people think about what is a good what were some good takeaways hey gang keep an eye on this whether it's literal like ott shows or like pop culture or common emotional themes you're seeing and just like takes i feel like i feel like there's kind of like a great moderation coming like i feel like a lot of what felt so unstable with social media and just the news media in general throughout the 2010s i feel like it was a lack of education on the user's end of like people don't understand how social media feeds affect their their moods their information consumption the way they think the beliefs that they adopt and i think the general public's knowledge of how these things work is catching up to like where you and i were five ten years ago and i think as that happens we're already seeing it now um people are just learning better like learning to to turn off all the noise and [ __ ] they're learning to back off not hit the reply button so fast yep um and i i see a kind of a new boom of like independent voices happening right now um i i'm like so bearish on traditional east coast media right now it's crazy um what's like what does that mean like new york times in washington got it yeah uh [ __ ] like that um it's just i just think they're it's just a sinking ship um yeah i mean i think all traditional media needs a different model they do it it's not even about for everybody listening it's not a left or right thing it's funny when you said a great moderation

### The Answer Is Purple [30:04]

moderation i've been using a purple heart i've been falling in love with the color purple i've been spending so much time in this too bad my favorite color is green but i'm gonna figure this out i am completely convinced that what's about to happen is purple i'm sorry you and i we need to really actually become friends we're clearly very similar in a lot of ways i'm sure very different others and those are the fun parts but the world is so red and blue yeah and the answer is purple and it's and some people and sometimes it's dark purple sometimes it's very light purple but like it's so clear that we will die and this is not even like from politics like you know like socialism or storming the capital it just becomes societal it becomes like operational it becomes your day-to-day life it's everything it's not j i mean it's most visible in politics right but like but it's everywhere like i i'm a big gamer i see in the gaming community it's like the loudest most insane two percent of gamers are the ones that you hear about all the time you know it's like the [ __ ] crazy sports people are the ones you hear all the time you know and it's like it's our own fault for loving rubbernecking yeah well and it's i hope slash feel that people are they're smartening up to this and i think this is why you're seeing like sub stack takeoff you're seeing like uh you know you there was a chart recently of like joe rogan's numbers compared to all like the um what do you call it cable news shows or whatever and it's like you know his audience is as big as like the five biggest cable news shows combined you know and it's like i mean people are seven hundred thousand years old that watch cable cut news like we have to understand that by the way i think ageism is a problem i'm not [ __ ] on 50 60 70 80 90 on i'm almost 50. [ __ ] you know euros i'm [ __ ] on the concept that the world's evolving that i have unlimited friends who are 71 years old who know what stubstack is and like read like all sorts of different things and are just like and i have very interesting friends who are willing to watch both fox and cnn and this and that and it's not even about like the politics anymore it's just the formats so here's a thought for you i'll leave you with this thought you know when i was a kid i used to make fun of my parents because like we get like a vcr and my parents didn't know how to program the vcr and like my brother and i would figure it out right and we would like make fun of my parents like oh i'm so bad with technology it was like a funny thing in the 90s to be an older person who was bad with technology i think now it's potentially like a social problem well and also i think we judge them so negatively and then the nft thing fires me up because all my 20 30 and 40 year old friends became their parents overnight because they're like i don't want to learn this it's a jpeg like watching 27 year olds say it's a fad watching 36 year olds say like i can't figure out a non-custodial wallet like i don't want to coin me like they're scared of this the way parents were scared of putting credit cards into a computer like literally watching 20 and 30 year olds over the last 12 months become their 65 year old parents has been one of the most joyous things for me because i let them i trap them i let them cause these are my friends i let them i'm like that's the [ __ ] you used to make your fun of your mom for yeah totally man totally technology we'll talk brother congrats on all your success we will cross paths again thanks for being on the show thanks man great talking