# The Former CEO of Best Buy Shares His Definition of Winning | GaryVee Audio Experience: Hubert Joly

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Gary Vaynerchuk
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM
- **Дата:** 14.05.2021
- **Длительность:** 35:05
- **Просмотры:** 21,810

## Описание

On this episode of the "Garyvee Audio Experience", I sit down with former CEO and Chairman of Best Buy, Hubert Joly, for an extremely insightful conversation around his impressive career. We talk about the definition of winning, what makes a good leader, how businesses can stay ahead of the competition, and more... Enjoy!

Get a copy of Joly's new book "THE HEART OF BUSINESS" here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CNMLDH1

Learn more about Hubert on his official website: Official Site: https://www.hubertjoly.org/

—
Thanks for watching!
Check out another series on my channel:
Tea With GaryVee (Fan Q&A Series): https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfA33-E9P7FBahSYlSAjOMGsuRPLMWWEO
Overrated Underrated (Hot-takes on Culture): https://youtu.be/TUSNSqA62uI
Gary Vaynerchuk Original Films: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfA33-E9P7FAvnrOcgy4MvIcCXxoyjuku
Trash Talk: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfA33-E9P7FDelN4bXFgtJuczC9HHmm2-
WeeklyVee: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfA33-E9P7FBPjdQcF6uedz9fdk8XKn-b
— 
Gary Vaynerchuk is one of the world’s leading marketing experts, a New York Times bestselling author, and the chairman of VaynerX, a modern day communications company and the active CEO of VaynerMedia, a contemporary global creative and media agency built to drive business outcomes for their partners. He is a highly popular public speaker, and a prolific investor with investments in companies such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Venmo, Coinbase, Slack, and Uber. Gary is a board/advisory member of Bojangles’ Restaurants, MikMak, Pencils of Promise, and is a longtime Well Member of Charity:Water. He’s also an avid sports card investor and collector. He lives in New York City.

## Содержание

### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM) <Untitled Chapter 1>

but i've always believed in the power of business and i believe that one of the great ways to be selfless is to be selfish

### [0:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=14s) The Garyvee Audio Experience

the garyvee audio experience vaynernation how are you it's gary uh i miss all of you as you know i have not been doing a lot of original interview uh podcasts during this pandemic i've been head down with uh operating vayner x uh during this time and more recently have been uh super head down on my v friends project my new nft project uh that is just hitting the scene but um i had a pre-call with this gentleman who i'm going to introduce in a second and it was just so clear to me that our ideologies really mapped and he caught me at a great time we caught we spoke while i was in california drawing my v friends and writing the words empathetic elephant and kindness and and passionate that and in sympathy and curiosity and many many things around leadership and while i've been writing a new book that comes out in november and as this distinguished gentleman was speaking i was like wow we really see the world the same way and i think we're also in a place where we both want this way to be the way so without further ado i'm going to let him introduce himself and tell you a little bit about his new book that i couldn't be more excited for many of you to read i know the vayner nation tends to buy up the books of the few authors i ever put on here so i think this one's gonna hit for you because i know this audience extremely well but without further ado how are you yes gary it seems that we may be brothers from maybe from a different brother a mother but such a good feeling so my name is uber um up until a few months ago i was chairman and ceo of best buy where together with my wonderful team we led this delightfully amazing and surprising resurgence of best buy and i studied a new life i'm now a professor at harvard business school but importantly this author of this book the

### [2:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=137s) The Heart of Business Leadership Principles for the Next Era of Capitalism

heart of business leadership principles for the next era of capitalism and say that one more time because i want people to really hear the title of the book so it's the heart of business leadership principles for the next era of capitalism and i think that we indeed need a new era right because what is striking to so many of us right is the world we live in uh is not working well right we have of course a health crisis but also economic crisis societal crisis systemic racism environmental crisis geopolitical tensions and what's the definition of madness gary right doing the same thing and hoping for a different outcome and i think that so many things that we've been doing are not working so through the years and in particular through the experience of leading this turnaround and resurgence i have become convinced that there's a better formula for the world i think most of us agree with it but i'll simply articulate is the idea that at the heart of business there's the idea of pursuing a noble purpose business being a force for good it's about placing people at the center and creating an environment where you can unleash human magic embracing all stakeholders in some kind of declaration of interdependence and treating profit as an outcome but not the goal right when we think about life's it's not about making money that's an outcome it's about being a force for good and what i felt gary is that while suddenly following the pandemic most people now embrace these ideas i think all of us are travelers on this journey eager to let go of the old way and learn how to lead from a place of purpose and with humanity and i wanted to offer you know help and tools and practical advice and concrete stories about what it takes to do this because i feel i've learned so much so i hope that will be helpful from that standpoint we're you know you're a little bit ahead of me in years but even for me i always struggled when i first came into the business world because it was so about you have to have sharp elbows don't let anybody walk all over it was very masculine and not even masculine that's unfair i actually want to take a step back because for a long time i would always say i had these skills that my mom gave me i'm like my mom their feminine skills when i was in my 20s 30s now it's just human skills like compassion empathy there's unlimited men with that it's not there's unlimited women with you know alpha ultra like you know so i think that that's a misconception but even taking it a step back i always struggled with that because i didn't i thought i was a killer i really did businessman killer but i didn't think it had to be i thought business like sports meaning when i was doing business i wanted to win the most competitive i still am i want to build the biggest but when i would meet a competitor at a restaurant or conference i had the ability to look at them as a human being and say you know do i want to beat her him of course but i'm surprised by how many people in business are nasty are spending their time trying to tear down the other person because i've always looked at business like sports you could be nasty on the field but when the game is over you come up to the person you say how's your wife uh can i make a donation to your charity i saw that you posted that the other day oh man you really got me today i'm gonna get you next time and i don't think people and i think the term business is a negative term it's like but i actually think it's a very true term but i want to spin it and make it a little bit like you see where i'm going and that's why i'm using sports profound what you're saying and you make me think of my good friend jim citron who's one of the senior guys at spencer stewart who many years ago wrote something very profound because the best leaders don't climb to the top they are carried up one of the diseases in the world other than covid is the idea of zero-sum games only way for you gary to win is if i lose tell them vice versa that's right that's crazy i think we have to step back and think about why do we work you know what you know and work is such an important part of our life so it's a it's an important question is work a curse punishment because some dudes in paradise uh or is it something that you do so that you can do something else that's more fun like if you're in minnesota having the vikings beat the green bay packers or you know if you follow the lebanese khalil gibran is work love made visible and i think it is it's part of our fulfillment as human beings and why do i speak about this in connection with business because i see a company as a human organization made of individuals working together in pursuit of a goal not a money-making machine then you ask yourself what is the goal and that's why you have to look inside during the lockdown right if you couldn't go outside go inside and i think at the heart of

### [7:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=473s) A Desire To Do Something Good in the World

every human being is a desire to do something good in the world and the good thing in business if my friend if and i don't know you if they were fortunate enough to have the foundation you know my mother like i'm so happy grateful content that my ability to do good for the world is unlimited because i'm not searching for anything for myself that's right i think that a lot of people are unable to do good for the world because they're hurting themselves if you're hurting it's impossible for you to do for others you're so self-consumed yes however i believe one of the reasons you know i've always believed i mean i'm listen i'm pretty like socially like accepting and love and blah blah blah but i've always believed in the power of business and i believe that one of the great ways to be selfless is to be selfish and that's why i've always felt that business and that's why the fact that you you did say in the subtitle the word capitalism right you said that yep see that really caught my attention that was probably the final piece when we were talking i remember it now because i was on the in malibu driving on this highway it's such a negative word to so many and i think it doesn't does not have to be that's right and i think what you're trying to do and what i'm trying to do if we rewrite it because i believe that i am making and i expect for the next 50 years to make such a profound legacy using business and capitalism as the engine to good not the reverse that's exactly right and one of the things by the way you said gary is about winning and so in business of course we want to do well but one thing i've learned is uh in order to win you know how do i define winning i now

### [9:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=582s) Define Winning

does i do not define winning as being number one so at best buy you know people thought in 2012 when i became the ceo that amazon was going to kill us right yes everybody talks about that and uh in strategy i actually don't believe that i need to define my strategy as beating amazon it's about being the best company i can be and there's room for different types of players in fact from a strategic standpoint it's better if i build something that's completely unique and the irony in the in this saga with amazon who is supposed to kill us is we did neutralize them because you know at best buy we made sure we had the same prices uh same let's start right there yeah i love that you started with that i in both my core businesses both and there's a lot of different people listening here and that's and i'm sorry to interrupt i know people get frustrated with me but i have a style and i want people i love the intensity thank you when i'm interrupting you know it's exactly right like but you said something very important i believe the number one reason incumbents lose to new variables in retail is their ideology around price you said it so subtly which is why i jumped in both my businesses my dad's wine store and my advertising agency have thrived on price it is very difficult to tell a person why they should pay more on a commodity it is incredibly hard right to say hey paul you should pay more at best buy than on amazon uh because we have many stores and more overhead because we will talk you through it here on the floor i'm sure when you walked in the frustration i mean i saw it during that era people would come to best buy and other retailers do their homework and by the time they were out of the store and in the parking lot had bought it in a an online retailer for less price your decision to not let them out price you how much was that resistant by cfos and short-term financial people how big of a fight or non-fight tell me a few minutes on that story i know it's off topic but it's not off topic for the people that are listening to this podcast so i want to spend two minutes on it my friend yeah and the journey so back in 2012 right it was called show rooming what you just discussed and i spent my first week at best buy working in a store in san cloud minnesota so i could listen from and learn from the front liners and see what was going on and why the showrooming phenomenon was not completely widespread it was happening and stepping back i said look i you know i want to win with the customers there's no logical arguments for preventing the customers from doing this so i'm going to take price of the table now we did study we had done a pilot we had quantified the price gap so and then the question was you know what's our choice right we can continue to carry a price premium and die slowly or we can align our prices win with the customers in our own way and we'll have to fund you know the investment in price we quantified it we funded it through efficiencies and also we found we were able to think outside the box and again avoiding zero-sum games and that was the partnerships we did with the world's foremost tech companies that opened stores within our stores you know which helped offset our entire cost structure and so you know these principles of being focused on the customers neutralizing amazon but then trying to become the best version of best buy by trying to think through what are the unique problems that our customers have and what are the unique ways that we at best buy can use to solve them uh and win that way and uh so that was our focus and that will explain the resurgence of best buy and then that led us to actually cooperate with amazon because we sell their products in our stores and then we even did the deal where they gave us the exclusive rights to the fire tv platform to be embedded in i remember tvs which was huge with craziness so it was a different way to think i want to refuse a big lesson gary that you and i think shares refuse zero sum games that's the difference maybe with sports in the super bowl there's only one winner in space all of us can win if we play a different game we have to well there's speed than everybody else there to your point there's another layer to this conversation where i'm fascinated which is for me the process is the winning not the numbers or the money for me i'm winning every single day like if you said actually i'm not this great executive and author i'm actually a genie from the future and i came on this podcast gary to tell you your future and i have some bad news today is actually the apex height of your professional career financially that you will never earn more notoriety influence legacy this is it this is the moment literally starting tomorrow unfortunately something's gonna happen and you're gonna not collapse but you're gonna flatten out and literally my answer to you would be like but am i still playing like do i still have businesses and you'd say yes i would be smiling cheek to cheek i think the winning for you know is the process definitely for entrepreneurs i have more compassion that it's a slightly different game for gentlemen and women like yourself where there's boards and the market where there's variables of time limit you know what's great about being an entrepreneur is you're playing for life there is a little bit of you know if i was the ceo of hp or best buy or dunkin donuts there would be an inherent understanding in my mind i don't control all the variables and at some point here others may innuendo to me even if i do a great job for 12 years hey the next person's ready she wants to leave if she doesn't get your job we're gonna need you to be executive chairman and i would understand that but i do think the people both executives and entrepreneurs that fall in love with the process are winning on a daily basis thoughts yeah and i think the way i would describe it it's all about how we define winning and it's all about purpose and meaning for me so the fundamental question for all of us as leaders is who are we how do we want to be remembered what legacy leave what's the meaning of our life in fact one of the exercise exercises i have so i coach ceos and mentor them or at harvard business school we have this new ceo program we ask them to write down their retirement speech or even better their eulogy so what really gives you energy what drives you and i think if we can connect our work activities with what drives us which for most people is doing good things to other people right then that's the definition of living a meaningful life and when i think about my life i want to i've always used three criteria right i want to do something that's meaningful that's impactful and that's joyful and to your point it's the journey right now i do believe that life is about growth right that's the definition of life and so whether but you can define growth in many different terms in the late clay christensen writer wrote this book about how will you

### [17:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=1062s) How Will You Measure Your Life

measure your life and you get to decide this and i think as leaders this may be some of the most important question what's what you know what is meaningful to us and by the way one of the things i've learned gary at best buy is being curious about what drives people around you and really understanding their life story what gives them joy what gives them energy i had they had a storytelling manager in boston he would ask every one of the associates of the store in his store about 100 of them right what is your dream at best buy outside of best buy what is your dream write it down in the break room my job as the store gm is to help you achieve your dream now that's meaning and to paraphrase godfather you know tell michael actually liked him it was only business nothing personal i think business needs to be personal you know and that's a huge shift and to me that's the heart of business it's placing people at the center and finding ways to unleash human magic you know not even ourselves but in everybody around us and everybody at the company this is when you get organized how do you think about firing i think a lot of people are listening to this might get some great value out of your perspective how do you think of the process of you you've obviously have fired many people through your career it's the nature of the game you know how right or am i making assumptions no so let me say a few things but it's very different uh from the top of the house to you know the the front liners and so forth when i studied at best buy it was i'm sorry real quick i apologize my but you didn't start as ceo i did the best buy i did i know that i'm sorry i'm trying to take your whole career into account yeah i'm talking about you the human more so than best buy as you went through your journey you've obviously had to go through that difficult process of letting people go yes yes so i think for me you the ceo of best buy and you know as a fan of sports and business that victory is a big one because to your point when i saw that on paper i'm like this is going to be hard but i'm actually you're actually on this podcast because i'm more interested in you the human being the whole part because i think so for me take me how about even maybe the story of the first person you had ever you know for me i'll tell you i'll share something vulnerable i used to have to ask my father to fire people because i disliked it so much yeah uh you know so just curious for you as somebody who's emotionally intelligently charged comes from a place of humanity yeah it took me only into my last couple years where i'm like oh no this is not i'm doing i'm not doing them a favor by them staying here no it's better you know but i didn't really believe it in my 30s i'm starting to believe it more now there's a way to do kind candor to get them there i'm just curious about your journey with firing so several things one at the macro level when you need to improve the performance of the company one of the beliefs i've developed is that reducing head count is a last resort which is the opposite of the usual playbook company announces restructuring 10 000 positions eliminated share price goes up i think that's horrendous the priorities are grow the revenue if you're going to go cut cost first focus on non-salary expenses which is all of the elements of the cost of it should have nothing to do with people which is usually the bulk of the cost structure and treat head count reduction as a last resort because usually people are not the problem to paraphrase well dragon people are the solution you know they're the engine that's at the macro level at the micro level so just one individual you're right the uh what you find is that sometimes people are not a good fit you know they may not have the joy in the job or it's not a good fit for their skills they're struggling everybody knows they're struggling now if it's the case in the junior position then you help them grow but at the top of the house you know it's too costly to have the wrong executive i'm a big believer i'm a bit of a maoist so don't report me to senator i believe that fish rot from the head i agree and oftentimes you have to quickly remove people who are not a good fit you know but you don't add insult to injury you'd say you know let's talk this is not a good fit but you know as you look for your next opportunity i'll support you and so you have to have in your heart the fact that a it's a responsibility you have to make sure that you have the right team at the top because then it influences not just one person but hundred thousand people and that's your responsibility and then as it leads to the individual you have a human conversation around this and that's a big uh big uh thing uh in you know you have to make peace also with the fact that you know you're the decision maker and it's not doesn't mean you're right you don't doesn't mean you need to convince the person you're right that they're wrong is that you're the decision maker and you've done your best to reach a conclusion and then you're gonna do your best to execute the decision in a in a human way there is no point in adding insult to injury the common point in all of this is that the source of everything in business is people and they're usually not the problem if there's a misfit then you have to deal with it but without adding insult to injury i totally understand my friend what um

### [23:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=1426s) What Stood Out for You in the Book Writing Process

what stood out for you in the book writing process you know for me i'm writing a book that i think has got some similarities without reading it yet as i told you i wouldn't read the book because i'm not good at that it's not how i comprehend but i couldn't wait for this interview when i was when i'm writing my current book i was blown away by me realizing wait a minute i'm dramatically more curious than i realized when you were writing this what stood out for you of like maybe a trait or a nuance or a philosophy that you even had more conviction or more belief in or you maybe didn't even realize something about yourself or to the level i always knew i was curious i just don't think i knew i was this curious and now a lot of things make sense it's why i'm innovative i'm curious and it's not something i talk a lot about but it will be you know going forward did anything stand out to you yes first it was a very enjoyable process so here's the scoop writing a book is actually not difficult

### [24:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=1485s) Writing a Good Book

but writing a good book is extremely difficult so you need i needed some help and i worked with a wonderful partner calen lambert and it was a very intensive process we really worked well together and the place the piece that i enjoyed the most was writing the third part of the book

### [25:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=1506s) Unleashing Human Magic

which is about unleashing human magic the first part is about the meaning of work the second purpose for human organization what it means the third part is about what it takes to unleash human magic because i felt we had learned so much at best buy but when you have to articulate something then you know it forces you to research and be more precise and i think this is and the reason why i'm excited also about it is my daughter recently told me that's the part of the book that she likes best and when a daughter tells her father especially meaningful but it was a special moment good for you and it's the ingredients about how you know what does it take at scale in particular to have everybody at the company to have a spring in their step to be super challenged up about wanting to do great things in their work and for each other and what does it take which is the opposite of what i think we had learned last century century making getting things done in business was about you know following bob mcnamara the former secretary of defense with the inventor of scientific top-down management right you took a bunch of smart people they created a smart plan an implementation plan communicated it put key performance indicators in place put incentives in place that doesn't work and the reason is people don't like to be told what to do gary do you my friend no friend i got d's and f's through school mainly because i didn't like to be told what to do and mainly because i didn't respect a system that wasn't willing to react to the reality of my dna it's why i find so many people losing fighting in combat sports the people that are most effective are the ones reacting to the energy far off than the ones that are driving it and that's how i feel about life you know my entire career success is around humility it doesn't look like that because i'm very convicted i'm high energy i'm aggressive i'm competitive but let there be no confusion i only think the market is correct i don't think i always think they're right everything that is wrong that i fail is a hundred percent they were right i was wrong the audacity of the market's not ready for my genius and all this i hear is ludicrous the market is the market that's exactly right and one of the other transformations i think in business and in leadership right we the leadership model of last century was the leader as the superhero was there to save the days got all of the answers often driven by power fame glory and money nobody wants to follow a leader like this i think that the humidity vulnerability my most used phrase these days is my name is uber and i need help and i'm curious about you know what drives people around you and i know my job is not to necessarily come up with the answers but to create this environment in which everyone can blossom they feel they can exist it can be the biggest most beautiful version of themselves and that's a journey for so many of us because that's not how many of us were raised i totally understand who um who through your career either intimately you saw or from the outside have you admired that you think captured the essence of this book uh there's several people who've had a big influence in shaping it and i'll mention maybe three of them one was a client of mine at mckinsey and company 30 years ago john married the cow pantry he was the ceo of a french computer company who told me he bear the purpose of a corporation is not to make money it's an imperative it's a but it's an outcome but it's not the goal you know it's the profit is the consequence of having a great team which leads you to have you know great customers and innovation uh and that's what you have to focus on and one of things he said is you know when you do your monthly business review don't start with financial results end the meeting with financial results but start with people in organization customers business innovation and end with financial results and then gary around the same time about 30 years ago two friends of mine who were monks in a religious congregation invited me to work with them on writing a couple of articles on the theology and philosophy of work which invited me to reflect on why do we work right this idea that work is part of our search for meaning which was very influential the third person when i was being interviewed to be the ceo of calcium companies which is another minneapolis-based company that's in travel and hospitality and zach's maryland council nelson and she's the daughter of the founder of the company and it was she was interviewing me to be eventually her successor one of the questions she asked me is

### [30:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNaob6Ss5sM&t=1828s) Tell Me about Your Soul

iber tell me about your soul that's the only time gary anybody asked me that and you know one of the things we've realized last year certainly i've realized more than ever is that you know the people around us are not just employees they're human beings they're whole people and we need to lead with all of our body parts not just the brain but also the heart the soul the guts the ears the eyes and i used to spend to place a lot of emphasis emphasis when i would recruiting be recruiting or promoting somebody on experience and expertise i wanted the best e-commerce person the best supply chain person increasingly i spent time on who is this person what drives this person how do they want to be remembered i remember telling all of the officers at best buy when we were talking about leadership i told them look if you're here to serve yourself or your boss or me the ceo of the company if you think you're serving me it's okay i don't have a problem with that except you cannot work here we are going to promote you to customer and we're going to take great care of you as a best buy customer because what i want is leaders who are here to serve others right and the best way to serve others is as you said earlier is to start from within right is to be somebody who's clear about who they are and who cares about others and don't have the sharp elbows right that's not what we want so these are some of the people who have influenced me today in business i think there's great leaders that i admire i think at microsoft success is a role model for me he exemplifies his vision of leadership it's about role modeling caring and coaching i think that's a great example my good friend john donahoe the ceo of nike if john when he finished business school he wrote down his retirement speech and he kept it with him and he's constantly going back to uh to that retirement speech to checking that you know he's leaving his other idea that he set out yeah these are examples um these are real examples i appreciate that what uh what have we not touched on before we get out of here uh that you want people to know about the book and obviously the book's available on all platforms i assume yeah it's really a book you know if i had wanted to write a book for ceos i would have gotten together you know the ceos of the business council and spoken with them for a couple of hours and would have been done so this is a book for all leaders at all levels and my view is that everyone is a leader because at the minimum we're leaders of our lives and leaders who are eager to create this future that does not exist yet but that needs to be a more sustainable more just future that deals with the number of ticking time bombs we have and you know i've written it for you like taking combines on whether it's environmental or whether it's mental health or whether it's a million other variables if you actually used as much of your heart as you did your brain or your wallet yeah well then you could have a much better mix around business yes exactly and we can be of course good and this book is an invitation for all of us to figure to define what impact we want to have in the world and how we can lead do a better job we're all trying i think today do a better job of leading from a place of purpose and with humanity and it's a it's really a playbook a guide practical set of tools to help leaders fellow travelers who are moving in that direction so i hope it's helpful to folks i appreciate you being on my friend i wish you nothing but success i can't wait to buy a bunch of copies for friends gary i hope this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship i promise you it is thank you youtube watcher what's up it's garyvee first of all thank you so much i hope you're doing super well during these times uh i also want to ask you please subscribe because my commitment and exploration of youtube is about to explode stories polls more content more engagement more surprise and delight this is the time to subscribe i hope you consider it and i hope i see you soon

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*Источник: https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/17554*