# It’s Time We Put the Common Sense Back Into Digital Marketing

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Gary Vaynerchuk
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mimy-odUZ4o
- **Дата:** 13.04.2021
- **Длительность:** 37:34
- **Просмотры:** 87,842
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/17572

## Описание

The marketing industry has been so fixated on "how it always worked" with television and radio that they have failed to truly innovate their creative strategy for the digital age and social media. Creating for the internet is completely different than creating for television, radio, or any other medium of communication in the past and the strategies need to be adjusted as so. You no longer have just one ad placement to communicate to your audience. There is so much more opportunity to convey your message to different people and have your brand resonate differently with each group.  In this video, Gary sits down with the Anheuser-Busch team to discuss how marketing has evolved, global messaging vs local messaging, creating vs debating, and more! 

If you got any value from this, give the video a like and subscribe to the channel for more... Enjoy!

Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
3:20 Brand is being built on social media
15:00 The new rules of creative
17:11 The biggest mistake brands make shift

## Транскрипт

### Intro []

i come to this talk passionate about this sentence why is common sense been eliminated from our industry you got your perspective i just want to be happy don't you gary thank you for joining us thanks for having me matt how are you i'm doing well good so uh i'm going to pontificate here for like 10 or 15 minutes but what i really want to do knowing the incredible pedigree of the audience and many if not most of you could equally and should be up here speaking i really am passionate about q a and getting into the details because i'm gonna go macro here which is what you have to do when you don't have the context of where everyone's angle is from sales to marketing the incredible agency partners here are thinking about one thing the brand teams are thinking about a different thing the media team is thinking about another thing the talent that has been so incredible uh in the content is thinking about another thing but we're all bound by the same thing which is attention creativity business results uh altruistic impact on society and so please please as i set this framework of how i see the world and what i'm seeing please jump in and start firing away with however matt taught you questions or asked because i really want to get into details because i think you know for me i love barbells you know i love the macro psychology and what's actually happening the strategy but i'm also extremely practical i think one of the things that's been very hard for me in being in madison avenue is the creative industry i think a lot of times struggles with create with practicality it's about the creative and i think a lot about the attention and the business and then the creative i call my abc's and i think a lot of times it's creative creative and there's a tone def definitely to business sometimes the media plan on the attention side is integrated with the creative but they're siloed and in that siloed in the middle the bee is kind of left to struggle and that's why the sales teams and retail incentive programs and all those things have emerged in leverage because i think of the lack of practicality of advertising over the last 50 years but i think a good place to go is actually the topic of the moment if you're watching what's going on with amc and gamestop um you're seeing one of the most powerful institutions uh over the last 100 years in commerce be put to its knees wall street right you're seeing hedge funds which have completely dominated the ecosystem uh lose five billion dollars in a week because a bunch of humans got together and um and made a decision and there's really nothing stopping that you can shut down a discord talking about wall street but you're going to have to regulate the internet to actually stop what's happening right now because you can go into a forum where you can go to a facebook group like what are you going to do just put every human jail like you know what are we talking about going back to communism you know so i think that uh we're living an incredible time and i think for everybody here it's incredibly important to understand why that matters to us as communicators marketers business people we talk a lot

### Brand is being built on social media [3:20]

about owning our brand controlling the narrative we spend ungodly amounts of time in boardrooms making subjective decisions and no matter how incredible the talent is ricardo monica marcel pedro i think about all the great people i've worked with through the years lucas no matter how great the talent is miguel of making the subjective call on the creative this false narrative that we believe that we control the brand positioning that we that we're gonna tell the story that we're gonna dictate it is laughable go right now and i mean it like literally where's mine go right now to your phone go into instagram i'm gonna do it myself and literally put in bud light like search it i'm searching right now on the spot bud light in real time tags all right 1. 8 million posts here we go here it is all this creative has a hell of a lot more consumption than what bud light does on its social media channels by itself so this narrative of spending 800 hours of global stella and local stella debating what gets posted on instagram when there's 800 posts that were posted for people to see and decide what they think of the brand being done while we were in boardrooms debating one post and i just see matt smiling this is real talk my friends listen i'm quite busy you are a great partner but i come to this talk passionate about creative passionate about business but most of all passionate about this sentence why is common sense been eliminated from our industry like why can't like in 38 seconds i just described very logically and in real life why abi globally will waste 40 000 hours debating creative on social media platforms whether draftline does it or vayner or leo burnett or global and do you know the global and local dynamics that happen in this company the politics are unbearable on a good day and i feel bad for the individuals we need a strategy shift right it's always going to come down to the work i think megan's speaking here who i'm obsessed with you know that work that we did together you know at with vayner and the budweiser team that work matters right that work really matters what we did with nwsl but how do you get there it's by listening it's by being common sense oriented the women's national team is like the like literally like the feeling i just felt of warmth is incredible it doesn't make sense that we only care for two weeks every four years of course we should care about this right keep playing like of course it should have attention but where does that come from that comes from listening when you do social properly what an incredible situation that's brewing social media content is where brand is actually being built it just is and it's time that we finally accept it like brand is being built in the lower and middle funnel there's far more consumption of ultra and stella and budweiser happening on this phone today then on a tvc outside a super bowl which ironically some brands are and aren't doing this year and i think the work that budweiser is doing is very strategic because we've done it for so long but we need to have a new conversation my friends please let what you see going on with bitcoin and sports cards and wall street and discord and clubhouse like isn't everybody here tired of just being slow and culturally relevant like isn't it just time for us to like isn't that what this meeting's about right isn't this meeting about let's take a step out because i do it too i'm not sitting on a high horse i get into my minutia too but these meetings correct me if i'm wrong later when matt jumps in matt these are times to step back and think we're taking time out from working right now to consume i think it's time we understand what's actually happening why gamestop can go from almost going out of business to 300 a share people the internet the pipes of the internet rule the day has the social discourse in america and around the world not taught you what's going on distribution has been disrupted my friends we can't run the same media playbook and when you don't it changes the entire creative playbook we have to score differently we have to act differently please it's just it's over don draper is dead he's really dead like not even kind of dead and we need to understand that and the second we do as an organization incredible things happen the politics between global and local change because we become and stick with me here this is the word of the day this is an and game creatively not an ore game this you know stella can be both super premium and affordable luxury funny and serious it should be relevant to as many people as who does anybody here not want everybody to drink everything that we sell like because we decided in a board room who should buy stella versus bud light that's how we should communicate they should both communicate to everybody they're monster brands we are making enormous common sense mistakes in the ecosystem we completely have lost our way with where brand is being built and we have to get back to the abc's it starts with attention business is the punch line then we can talk about creativity fitting into a and b let's get our abcs down this is simple this is common sense but corporate america the global corporate world and madison avenue are not living in it they're just not and so you know i view our entire space the way i view nissan versus tesla abc network versus netflix the way i view amazon selling toys versus toys r us it's changed the way i view influencers over famous people this company is going to be thrilled to sign seven-figure deals with famous people while there's influencers that are ten times more famous with our target audience that we could get for hundreds if not tens of thousands of dollars we just need more cultural relevance we need more speed we need more empathy not apathy we need to be more consumer-centric faster culturally relevant we need to change our processes the way we judge we have to suffocate our own within ourselves it is it's time it's 20 21 it's time thank you thank you wow don draper is dead all right i have some my own questions first of all i'm going to address the questions you had for me please look like and you've worked with us long enough we're all about learning and that's what this day is about and we could have filled this with people only from anheuser-busch or abi or other fortune 500 companies and we did not that's why you see the lineup that you do um so we appreciate the perspective but that's what this is all about um i just want you know look the first question i have is i hear you know budweiser and stella should be marketing to everybody but how do you reconcile that with brand positioning and differentiation in the market um i think it comes down to being culturally and contextually relevant to far more individual groups the way you break through is you have everybody like you not you've decided you're going after coastal white males and then spend all your money going after that it just actually doesn't make sense it made sense when the cost of television distribution and creative was expensive and that was your at-bat and you had to go a certain route but with the internet where we can go consumer-centric up and really be relevant to so many more people i think i can't believe how much i still see people talk about reach and awareness when they talk about some of the biggest beverage brands in the history of mankind like budweiser does not have an awareness problem neither does nicolo vulture for that matter this is about really understanding how to create relevance through contextual creative to how it's being distributed the separation of media and creative mat destroyed the value of agencies to brands in my opinion i really believe that because it made it hard for people to be accountable i have empathy for the people that are on here that are just in creative when they just control that part and they have to hand it to a media planner company that's separate from them even if it's in the same holding company they've got different bonuses different cultures it's different it's really hurt us and i think the internet requires it and so i think we'll see in the next decade it all go back together but i think this to answer the question it's how do you get seven meaningful groups of individuals a million people in each two four million people in each because you were so contextual to them monica is one of the great things in our partnership her incredible push around localization let's do big boy in atlanta let's do this in utah it works why because people in atlanta like outkast go figure like it's not complicated and we go way too much vanilla push down instead of basking robins up and so the way i see it is because i do believe that brand is being built in the digital platforms how do we have seven to twelve meaningful groups of consumer bases how do we then make very sharp with teeth in it creative for those groups which then creates consideration and and connection so i want to follow that up because as you know you mentioned megan repino's about to join us and i think this could be it but give us an example that you did with ab that shows this type of thinking this type of creativity i'm obsessed with the work that we do with megan and did with dwyane wade right those are monsters but i'm i kind of you know subconsciously already went there the localization work that budweiser is doing with monica and marcel is something that i on the record is going to be replicated across abi globally in five years because it will be proven to be historically true which is contextual creative at scale 68 of those executions for the price of one hardcore tvc you know if i'm launching bud light seltzer all over again i'm doing 113 atlanta big boy budweisers not tv buy grp just get everybody to be aware because i can do it at six 113 times and meaningfully to get the same overall awareness i believe to be frank even more because of the way grp's are scored and how quickly television viewership is vanishing especially in commercial form now you've got incredible creative i mean api has anomaly wide incredible firepower giving those individuals much more creative room than fit this in a 30-second film yeah so that is by far my favorite work matt i want to follow up with a question i think it was a good segue but then look i know you're a creative team well shout out to nick

### The new rules of creative [15:00]

but what are the principles of creativity that won't ever change but what are the new rules that companies and agencies and brands need to be adopting creative is the variable of success you know when i do these things when i go to can when i a like a lot of creatives get upset with me i read the comments and i'm like no no i gotta and i put on myself not on them i'm like i gotta do a better job communicating this like i think i'm liberating creativity i cannot believe that creative humans think a 30-second video and then matching luggage to the tagline and video in digital banner form is considered creative in 2021 matt i think this is you know so what is true a good story something that makes somebody cry smile think is always gonna win the new rules are how do you stop someone that's going like this do you actually even understand the creative platforms and the nuances do you know what an instagram you know reel is versus a story do you understand how carousels work to start a conversation about craft beer on clubhouse which becomes an awareness play do you understand pre-roll spotify you know audio buying do you understand influencers mid-tail long tail do you understand two minute 37 second videos outperform business 30 second videos even though facebook and google and twitter will tell you make shorter videos on their best practices because it works for their metrics but not for business results because if you make a great two minute 37 second video that everybody watches they're gonna buy your stuff you know so i think the rule is a great story the right tagline the right emotion the right moment you can watch all nine or whatever seasons of mad men it's all there it's all right that's all right the problem is you used to have people watching them so distribution matters and you have way more flexibility now in the new game to do very different stuff and that matters so i don't know if you want to bring that home we have a question that's on that note from katie ostrecco thanks katie what is the biggest mistake you see brands make when they shift from traditional to digital strategies

### The biggest mistake brands make shifting to digital [17:11]

a complete lack of understanding of context creative and how to really spend media because most go to digital and they just replicate tv dna they go for mass scale so they buy you know a three million dollar facebook ad 21 to 35 hit enter against one piece of creative and they're like why is this not working because you're not actually using the tool properly it's like taking a screwdriver and trying to hammer in a picture on your wall use the tools properly there's a stunning misunderstanding mat of how to use these tools gym shark does 500 million dollars in revenue on instagram like you know wish the shopping app does eight billion on the back of facebook like these numbers are real now you know bang energy drink right like this is real now like i don't understand what people are talking about like liquid iv i was involved with right all the brand is being like but when you go from traditional to digital you've had a entire ecosystem of traditionalists taking the same blueprint strategy and deploying it to digital which has been a massive mistake which is why digital doesn't work nothing works if you don't know how to use it a basketball works for lebron matt he's gonna make billions because of it a basketball doesn't work for me i've torn both my meniscuses right but a cell phone and social networks have worked for me and they haven't worked for an a-list actor when i started 15 years ago because now she or he's irrelevant because they were too snotty to play on this so tools only work if you know how to use it most agencies and brands are not using digital properly they go programmatic because they're going for lowest cost there's no conversation of creative and media together properly volume of creative finding right versus pushing down and having audacity of right there's a lot going on here brother haley caldwell asked what do you think about the thought that if you were targeting to everyone then no one more time i apologize what do you

### "If you market to everyone, you market to nobody" [19:20]

think about the thought that if you were targeting to everyone then no one um i think it's a really really interesting point here's the difference i think that that's actually what's happening with you know with creative today i would argue what she said is right because when you're talking once and you're trying to talk to everybody inherently you can only be relevant to a small percentage of the people that you paid to get in front of when you go with the volume model up against a bunch of cohorts you're actually talking to 12 different people for example matt and haley i i've let's use you matt because we can go back and forth there's seven different mats there's matt that abi knows then there's matt in his personal relationships then there's the mat with his single best friend crew whether that was high school college right yeah they're watching right then there's and they're all different and the and in those bubbles you talk differently you actually talk differently different slang different stories so i think the i actually think the statement and the question's right i think television commercial like modern what's considered today branding is trying to talk to everybody thus talking to nobody i think what i'm talking about is 25 megan videos 67 dwayne wade videos and as you can imagine that megan video is gonna speak to a whole lot of women you know across the spectrum of women and a whole lot of compassionate men americans who are like yeah we do love these girls only once like that's crazy that's like and so that's one group guess what the dwyane wade video talked to a whole nother group guess what the big boy play for those atlanta people that talk to another group so i think i'm trying to talk to everybody but talk to them in context the way matt talks to his buddies on a four-day weekend in vegas on a reunion versus when he comes back into the office monday and there's a real different mat in that board room and that's exactly right it's human it's right it's not if matt was talking the same way everywhere he'd be fired right he'd probably have you know so he'd be super cool with his boys but everything else would burn down to the ground or if he talked the same way to everybody he'd have a great career but his boys would have dropped him a long time ago because they don't care about his powerpoint presentation right so that's context is the game pete asks we already know about tick tock what is an untapped platform for brands i think clubhouse tick tock and linkedin are the three brands that i would play on for example stella should get very serious about linkedin those are all three platforms that have gross i mean slang term for awesome incredible growth organic reach you can make one post and take talks about becoming age verified for alcohol so i'm hopeful and i'll be a voice at the table of pushing this org there very quickly um linkedin's organic reach is unbelievable i would also argue that there are specific execution face instagram reels not igtv not regular in feed post a huge play for the brands here um mid-tier influencers starting our own podcast i think ultra should have three podcasts that talk about extreme you know sports and escapism and basketball so becoming a little bit more of a much like draftline is building a creative infrastructure internally a publishing infrastructure internally is another untapped arena um i think every single person that crafts a beer in our ecosystem should be hosting a saturday and friday night beer talk on clubhouse let's get every charismatic you know brewmaster and that's probably 25 to 40 of them because some are introverted and don't want to do it and let's get them in there let's record it because that feature is now coming and you can do it if you just tell people you're doing it let's make content out of it there's a lot of contemporary work math that can be done um i don't want you to give a an a b well you can maybe an a b example if you want but non a b which brand campaign from 2020 really hit the mark i have no idea and let me tell you why when i look at and i do it rarely but when i look at the ad ages or the ad weeks or the things that the industry does i always do the same thing is the business up you know why am i keep going down to big boy versus let's say dwyane wade i like business results so you know right chipotle might have done something cool and we all love the nike commercial it's a beautiful piece of craft did that move the model business i think brand always does but was nike already there like how many more did it change people's opinion you know so to me i never ever have a good answer for this mat because there's a my subjective opinions if something was funny clever good craftsmanship yeah that to me is a focus group of one and that's hypocrisy that's not interesting b i really think that we're listen we're not talking about raising funds for a non-profit or getting somebody voted for we're sitting here and talking about business every one of us right now so to me the purpose of marketing and branding is to drive business results and so the ones that won are the ones that

### Where will attention be in 5 years [25:00]

that um actually impacted the business i like this question from ali burton allie thanks for the question gary hi how do you think attention will shift five years from now what should we be doing to get ahead of that ali i'm not sure right because i you know even though i've been yelling for a long time about voice so in some way i did feel like i saw clubhouse coming-ish um uh you really don't know i'm not um it's not fun for me to think i am nostradamus or i've had an incredibly good career of investing early about bitcoin in 2014 all my social stuff but i don't think i'm talented in predicting anything i think what i'm very good at is adjusting to reality you know i think there's coaches that do a great job game planning and then they come to the game i'm a different kind of coach i game plan but i'm not like up to three o'clock in the morning bleeding until the game what i'm incredible at is watching the first half my team's down 21 to six but i've watched the first half we go into halftime i only got 15 minutes my adjustments are gnarly like i think we go back out there and we win 28 to 24. and so that's my answer i i don't think anybody can actually predict i think ar vr audio all have incredible upside do i think that alexa send me a case of beer is going to be real life i do do i think that this company should figure out when they say beer that it's us not our competitors i do you know do i think that vr is coming and i see tens of thousand people paying for subscriptions to wear their glasses and do things i do i think it'd be cool if we did beer tastings that way around the world beers around the world through vr in 17 years 13 years i do but i don't know if it's 17 13 two minutes you know like that kind of stuff um so i think that to me it's more about keeping your ear to the ground every second whether that's knowing that the baby and meg the stallion and charlie demilio are about to pop or that clubhouse and and bitcoin sports cards or if it means that you know a new platform that's just launched today has a shot um that's what i do i listen daily and day trade attention more than plan it i gotta get this in matthew bull just wrote as a jets fan you must be used to your team being down at halftime thank you matthew we'll see you later and then real um real quick and i'll get to it matthew the reason i'm so excited is my new head coach has the same haircut as you my friend and that because i admire you so much i think that is going to work out nicely and you know i'm matthew bulls here one of my true favorite all-time creatives matthew's career is built on unbelievable creative ideation i believe what i'm about to say i believe if 24 year old matthew was coming into this world he would have had a 40-time bigger career because matthew coming up his game had to be reliant on somebody else's subjective opinion i am predicting that matthew's 30 best ideas never saw the day of light and if people listened to me in the first 15 minutes here they would understand what it means is matthew's ideas will come and see the day of life and to me that is game changing and so his incredible hall of fame career as matthew has had i think he left some of his trophies on the field and i hope that the next matthews and even matthew because he's still a young man like if we understand that up in that way there's going to be much better ideas to see the world nonetheless i know you want to get one more in before we get out of here yeah uh i'm going to try to get two more in um my friend laura krug from the stella team gary reflecting inward what do you think is the best work vayner your team did this year and why what were you disappointed about or wish was done different and why that's really good i my team did a very bad job in 2020 of finishing off the fight we come in with very strong points of view and then we allow our clients to get us to a much safer boring corporate place based on politics and subjectivity and our account team creatives and strategists have been hearing from me this year of like listen we get paid to think we have the right thinking i really know we do because i'm looking at everything outside of madison avenue don't fold like a cheap chair when you get pushed back on so very disappointed how often we were willing to go back three steps which then took the juice out of an a execution and made it a b minus or c plus which then just doesn't hit the radar our best work scott's i think scott you know i don't know if some of you saw this but scott's just awarded vayner its entire full funnel creative and media 1960 leo burnett full media aor full creative not just social not just digital above the line the whole throttle why we were able to get in there in the digital way and and the abi team knows i want and pedro if he's listening knows i want vayner to do creative and media together in social so that we can do what we're scott's png pepsi they're all going in the same direction because we have both together we're able to show brand building and sales results and but scott's was just insane what we were able to do october to february before kovid changed their culture drove business in off season and more importantly had them credibly prepared for covid which was a natural spike of their business with backyards all of which has led to them doing their first super bowl spot this year that you all see and i hope you enjoy it and wait til you see the wrinkle we put in there another 2021 example i can't wait to get your feedback look i think we're up to something i really do and i'm really proud of that work and it led to a relationship that is extremely unusual in uh in today's modern world all right i'm gonna have one more question from the chat i'm gonna end with a question for me this uh one comes from shelby you mentioned internet regulation do you feel like this is finally coming it's been a conversation for over 15 years but now that is infiltrating the stock market do you think the movement will gain momentum i do and i think it's gonna be sad because i think let me rephrase i don't think it's gonna be sad i think it has momentum i think it's i think there's so much good from it that people don't understand and that regula and that we're not focusing on right now so much happiness so much escapism so much ben best friendship we're so focused on the negativity and now the disruption that i think that's the one-two punch that may get us there i think it would i think it's a scary slope regulated internet i just want to remind everybody regulated internet is fine and dandy when the people in control see the world the way you do it's not as interesting when they don't and so there's a reason that iran russia and china are the company's company funny the countries that have regulated internet there's a reason just want to remind everybody if we believe in freedom this is real freedom it's just real freedom changes the rules just like america was built on from london rule it's going to be a very philosophical thing but i do think it's gaining momentum which is too bad because i think it's going to have a lot more secondary collateral negatives than people are anticipating right now they just don't like the negativity and they don't like the unstableness but sometimes that's the best thing because it's leading you to your next place and your question matt last question today's all about creativity celebrating it whether it's somebody starting out in their career or somebody who's been at it for 20 years what advice do you have on gaining inspiration and staying ahead and sort of having a force of creativity in the work you do

### Advice for staying ahead [33:00]

fight for yes and and demonize no and or and watch your creative world change upside down i'm back to the people like matthew and others i've been in the wine business i've been in silicon valley it's unbelievable how much i love the humans in this industry when i go to one of the reasons i miss can is like we may compete in the micro micro with an anomaly or a wide an or a media com or a droga but like or you know a mind share but in real life this is all the humans are just incredible right and i know i'm a lightning rod to some and i'll get the hisses and what have you but when i sit down and have a glass of rose some of the nicest wonderful best people i love have come are in this industry on the flip side and remember what i'm about to say i was in the wine business and silicon valley this industry has a lot of undertone resentment and negative things and i think the reason it does is the business is built on or and no and i think the freedom creatively of understanding what i'm saying about brand building in the mid and lower funnel where everything's a yes and is liberating to the artists that are incredible in this industry and i wish more people understood it i think um i think history will look at me as a great champion of creativity even though i care about business results i care about the craft i just care about ideas the most and i know that people consider quality in many different ways it doesn't need a red camera sometimes it's the cleverness of the wordsmithing sometimes it's knowing how to use an animated gif or an emoji at the right moment and i just wish people got that because when you go to yes and when you understand brand is built in the lower and middle funnel in 2021 you can make 87 commercials instead of one and you can actually tell the full story instead of having to chop it to 30 because you know in your hearts all my wonderful creatives here that story was meant to be told in a minute in 19 and when that distribution's changed and it has i mean what's going to be left of commercials are you kidding me with ott so this could be to inspire you figure this world out because it's actually the liberator of your happiness and creativity all right sorry i have to get this in because you referenced certain times monica ruski vp marketing budweiser for those who don't know gary creativity overrated or underrated mom thanks for watching that show by the way for everybody's watching if you go to my instagram garyvee please check this out back to what i believe in i started it randomly i had an idea i my algorithm on instagram matters a lot i care but i'm like no creativity is underrated i'm going to be creative i'm going to start the show overrated underrated and now it's the most important thing i'm doing on my i mean nobody would think a four minute igtv would outperform all these best practice but it's the content baby creativity is underrated it is absolutely the variable of success what is overrated is how we get to the creative in the ad and corporate world and when i say overrated it's obnoxious and that is what we need to fight for and the people that are holding it up don't realize that they'll do even better in the opening up of it because they're

### Outro [36:30]

inherently talented and creative all right gary thank you that was amazing uh you're a great partner your team do amazing work for us we really appreciate you joining us today thank you bye everybody hit me up on linkedin or on twitter garyvee and give me some feedback or insights i i'm really taking advantage of covet and connecting with people on linkedin if i could be a help to any of you even the competitors you need some talent i got a bunch of people that want to try new things so karma karma forever love you thank you so much youtube what's up it's garyvee first of all thank you so much i hope you're doing super well during these times i also want to ask you please subscribe because my commitment and exploration of youtube is about to explode stories polls more content more engagement more surprise and delight this is the time to subscribe i hope you consider it and i hope i see you soon