# Doctors Miss This ALL THE TIME with Thyroid Expert Dr. Amie Hornaman

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** KenDBerryMD
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePMrIg5qC4U
- **Дата:** 26.03.2026
- **Длительность:** 1:09:31
- **Просмотры:** 41,607
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/20578

## Описание

Dr. Ken Berry and Dr. Amie Hornaman talk about hypothyroidism, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, low thyroid symptoms, and iodine supplementation. This episode is especially for women over 45 dealing with fatigue, weight gain, brain fog, hair thinning, dry skin, constipation, or cold intolerance who suspect low thyroid function. We cover underactive thyroid, autoimmune thyroid disease, thyroid lab testing, and common questions about iodine and thyroid health. If you are searching for answers about thyroid symptoms in midlife, this interview is for you. Iodine, thyroid lab testing, less common low-thyroid symptoms and much more in this great conversation, filled LIve in front of the PHD Community. 

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Dr. Amie Hornaman, also known as “The Thyroid Fixer” is the CEO and founder of the Advanced Thyroid and Hormone Clinic, an international telehealth practice serving patients across the U.S. and Canada. She also hosts the top-rated podcast 

## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

Dr. Amy Hornman, why do so many doctors get the treatment of thyroid disease in women so utterly and embarrassingly wrong? — Well, first of all, Ken, I think it starts with not listening. You know, I always say the four most important words that any practitioner, doctor, NP, PA can ask you is how do you feel? And as you know, how often does anyone sitting in that five to seven minute visit with their PCP get asked how they actually feel? And it starts there when we talk about thyroid. — And so you believe as I do, that a woman's symptoms are just as important, perhaps sometimes more important than the actual black and white lab results. — Exactly. So the labs, I know we think exactly the same on this. The labs are beautiful. They're data. They point us in a direction. But you have to ask that person sitting in front of you, how do you feel? Because then you overlay that. You overlay the symptoms with the data that you have on the labs. And you go, oh, okay, Sally, it makes sense why you're gaining weight and losing your hair and you're constipated and you're cold all the time. Because look over here. This is the data that we have showing us what's going on in your body and your symptoms. basically cooperate what we're thinking here. — Welcome friends and neighbors. Today I'm interviewing Dr. Amy Hornman who is a uh DCN who suffered from undiagnosed thyroid disease which we're going to get into because this is such a common story. Uh who is now helping women all over the US and Canada with their undiagnosed, untreated and dismissed thyroid diseases. If you've got thyroid questions or more importantly symptoms and Dr. Amy just rattled off a few of them. If you're having trouble gaining weight or losing weight or you can't you you're like I'm trying to lose weight but I'm still gaining. If you're cold all the time if you're the person saying god it's cold in here. If you're always constipated, if you're losing your eyebrows, if you're having dry skin, uh this is the podcast you want to listen to. The latest edition of the Proper Human Diet podcast with Dr. Amy Hornman. Dr. Amy, tell us a little bit about you and I really want to hear your story of how you got jerked around by mainstream medicine and how you finally came to realize, dang it, it's my thyroid. — Yeah, exactly. I mean, so many of us are here from a pain to purpose story. Mine's no different. This started well over 20 years ago. I used to compete in bodybuilding fitness figure competitions. And so, I knew how my body was supposed to respond to a really strict diet. So, for the listeners that don't know what's involved, you were on a very, very clean, strict diet for about 8 to 12 weeks when getting ready for a show. And it consists of basically chicken, broccoli, asparagus. I mean, that is it. You're hitting the gym twice a day. Now, whether you believe in calories in, calories out theory or not, it still did not make sense that when I was eating that way, when I was going to the gym twice a day, that the scale would be going up and not down. Doesn't even make sense. — So, here's me getting ready for a show. I'm stepping on the scale every week because I have to send in my weight and my progress pictures to my coach. And every time I get on that scale, it's going up. I get on, it's like five pounds in a week. I'm like, "Wait a minute. Okay. Um, did I go off my diet at all? Did I eat too much salt? What's happening? " Get on the next week, 10 pounds. Like, um, okay. Something something's not right here. This isn't biologically making sense to me. My coach thinks I'm eating donuts and pizza. — Sure, of course. — You know, I mean, what other explanation could there be? And here I am thinking, my body is literally rebelling against me. It's like giving me the bird every time I step on the scale. — I step You were in your 20s during this time or 30s? — 20s. 20s when you're supposed to have a rocking metabolism. — Yep. — Here's me putting on weight. Now, I'm 52. So, when I say that I put on 25 pounds and then stopped getting on the scale, I mean, I was — I was thick. I was visibly overweight at that point. — I think the scale actually went up 40 pounds, but I refused to start. I refused to get back on it after it hit 25 pounds. — At some point, you're like, "Nope, no. If I don't see the number, I it won't be real. " Well, you know, and the frustration and depression whenever I tell this story, you know, I tell it like I'm telling it now, but if I really

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

got into the pain of it and really went back in my mind and reflected how I felt, I mean, I was a mess. Like, I thought my life was over. I'm I'm ashamed. I'm depressed. I'm frustrated. So, I did what we would all do in that situation. I went to my doctor and he looked at me, did some labs, don't know what those labs were because I wasn't paying attention at the time. Would love to go back and see that. Did some labs and told me, "Yeah, you're normal. Everything is fine here. " So, left that appointment and I thought to myself, I'm not normal. I'm not fine. I'm going to keep going. So, I went to doctor number two, then three, then four, five, six. They all medically gaslit me. I was told, "You're normal. You're fine. " I was told to eat less and exercise more at one point, which I thought, "This guy is crazy because if I actually eat less than I am right now, you're going to put me in an institution for an eating disorder. " Like there's — saying he was saying move more, eat less to somebody who was literally a professional athlete. That's literally what you did for a living. And he thought that breakthrough advice would somehow fix your problem. — Yes, he did. — I heard it all, Dr. Ken. I heard it all. So by doctor number seven, doctor number seven was an endocrinologist. had — metabolic disease associates was in the title. So I thought, okay, that actually has metabolism in the title. So maybe you have a fighting chance this time. So I go in, female doctor, touches my neck, first time ever, says swallow. She goes, "Oh, you have a little nodule here on your thyroid. Based on your labs," which I still don't know what she ran, but we can all guess. Based on your labs, looks like you have hypothyroidism. Actually, this looks like Hashimoto's. We're going to get an ultrasound to confirm it. But here's a pill. Oh, listen. I left that office so pumped up. I'm like, I have a name for my do, for what's going on with me, and I have a pill that's going to save my life. I was so excited. — So, I gave it five months. — And by the way, that pill was levothyroxine T4. — Sure. — Of course, standard of care. So, I gave it five months and not a single pound. Not a single pound dropped. I didn't feel any better. My energy didn't come back. Nothing. Hair was still falling out. So, I doctor Google now. So, I get on my gateway computer at the time, dial up internet, and I start doctor googling, and I find that there's this other thyroid hormone called T3. And I'm seeing, wait a minute, T4, that's what she gave me. Oh, that's an inactive thyroid hormone. It has to become T3, the active thyroid hormone. And it turns out T3 is a medication, too. And some doctors put T3 with T4, and it works really well. So, I went back to her and I said, "You know, there's this T3 thyroid hormone that's active. I mean, can we try it because this T4 isn't working? " She goes, "No, that's not standard of care. That's not what I do. " [clears throat] And I said, "Thank you. I'm going to find somebody who does. " That led me to the world of functional medicine where my functional medicine provider saved my life, became my mentor and helped me change careers at that point because I was in a major medical system. — I was in UPMC Pittsburgh. That's equivalent to Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, the best of the best, right? — Yep. — And I was still misdiagnosed six different times and mistreated on the seventh. So, you haven't went back and pulled all these labs from your previous visits just to see what they actually checked. U I think you and I would probably guess they definitely checked the TSH and maybe a T4 or free T4 and that's about it. the I'm actually shocked at the quality of care you got from the endocrinologist because it's been my experience over 22 years working on the 23rd year now that endocrinologists on average are the least likely to diagnose Hashimoto's and definitely they're never going to give you anything else except synthroidid or levothyroxine which is synthetic or fake T4 which for some few women works okay, but for many women that does not do the trick. Now, for everybody watching this, we're actually rec recording this live in front of the PhD community. And if it's okay with Dr. Amy, the PhD

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

members are going to get to ask her their own questions. Let's keep them tri, but let's keep all the questions about thyroid. And as we go through, when I see a good question, Dr. Amy, I will pop it up on the screen and we can talk about it. And if you're watching this on YouTube on the replay, if you'd like the opportunity to ask world authorities like Dr. Amy about particular medical and nutrition topics, consider joining the PhD community. Now, let's talk about the first six doctors. How many of them ask you, "Tell me all your symptoms. " And you you go in trusting the doctor, right? Because that's what the average patient does. So, you haven't Google this and looked up what are all the symptoms because you didn't even know what you had. What were you going to look up, right? And so they check minimal labs, do a minimal physical exam, which is a huge uh pet peeve of mine. The the quality of physical exam that gets done by the actual average doctor. And then you're what? Told it's all in your head. Move, move more, eat less. That's literally all you got from six doctors in a row. — That's it. That is it. Now, at one point, I think around doctor number three or four, I decided to actually bulletpoint my symptoms because I thought, well, nobody is listening to me when I'm going in. So, let me write it out for them. So, I bulleted listed. I didn't even write a book, right? We know how patients love to do this. Like, my weight started in my kombucha cleanse in 1995. I didn't write the book. I wrote a bulleted list of my symptoms, hoping that maybe they would look at this and go, "Oh, okay. Well, it makes sense. All of these symptoms are connected to whatever they would come up with at the time. " Now, I know it was thyroid related, but I was looking for anything. I think at some point I was I wouldn't I hate saying this, but I didn't even care what diagnosis I received because it would have been an explanation — as to what was going on with my body. Being told that you're normal and fine when you know that there's something major going on inside is maddening. You think you're losing your mind. And that's where the term gaslighting comes in. — Yep. And I think the to be fair to doctors out there, a lot of it is gaslighting, but it's unintentional gaslighting. I don't think that they're nefarious. I think they're just lazy. They're busy. They're inadequately educated when it comes to the thyroid. Uh, I can remember early in my medical career, Amy, thyroid because thyroid you it's upside down and backwards. I used to be a carpenter in a previous life and when you cut crown mold for the ceiling wall interface, you have to cut it upside down and backwards. And that's kind of how I thought about the thyroid because if TSH goes up that that's means the opposite because and let me just tell you primary care doctors are so inadequately educated on thyroid. We get a module in medical school but as far as going into any depth or detail it just doesn't happen unless you unless the doctor happened to do a month rotation in endocrinology. Uh but then that brings up its own special set of problems which we'll talk about in a minute. Uh you say uh in my research you said that 90 to 95% of hypothyroidism or low thyroid is either Hashimoto's or caused by Hashimoto's. But the average doctor, if you say the word Hashimoto's, they're liable to get that confused with Takiyas or any other number of Asian names and not even know what you're talking about, especially in a primary care doctor's office. What's a woman to do? How h how in 2026 do we say, "Okay, here's your symptoms. You need to go see a doctor, but here's what you need to do to actually get the care you need. Yeah. Well, you talk about it in your book. I my book. And I actually put a portion of our interview on my podcast when you talked about the nuclear option. I put that as part of my book because it's brilliant. So, what I say is number one, yes, you go in with a bulleted list of symptoms. — Yes. — Do not write your story. Do not write paragraphs. Bullet list your symptoms. And then bullet list the tests that you want to have. So, it really starts there. And my rule is if a doctor says no to testing, it's time to get a new doctor because if they can't even write on a piece of paper, reverse T3, free T3, then they really don't know what those numbers mean when they come back. That's kind of and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I've learned through the years that that's their way of avoiding

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

admitting that they just don't know what to do or there's not a pharmaceutical drug to treat it. So, if reverse T3 comes back high, well, I mean, sure, they can give you the band-aid meds like they do anyways. Here's your anti-depressant and your statin, but there's not a direct pharmaceutical like for reverse T3. You know, you're not seeing TMIA commercials for reverse D3. So that would be my piece of advice is you have to start asking for the labs and right then and there you're going to know whether or not this doc will collaborate with you and really cares about what's going on inside your body and cares about your symptoms. Then from there once you get your labs back then you look at them through an optimal lens. And what I mean by that is if we go by that standard lab value range just like you talk about all the time that's taken from groups of sick people. So we have to look at your labs through the functional medicine optimal lens and that's going to be a much more narrow window of where we want you to fall. But we know that's where you're going to feel your best. So then if your labs are not coming in optimal, then that's a whole other conversation then that you have to have with your doc in a collaborative effort to figure out what direction do we need to go here to get me the best care to treat what is going on, what we're seeing in my labs and ultimately to reduce or eliminate my symptoms because it's at the end of the day it's about quality of life and longevity and not just a lab value. So, we're not chasing labs, but again, going back to what we said in the beginning, those labs give us data. They give us direction to pair up with symptoms to then tell us, okay, what do we need to do next to improve your quality of life? — Yep. I totally agree. And as we go through this discussion today, Dr. Amy and I are going to be giving you a list of red flags. Uh just like if you go to a car mechanic and they just look at your car and say, "Oh, you need a new motor and a new transmission. " Uh you're like, "Uh, I'm going to get a second opinion cuz I don't think you I think you're just trying to make money off me. " Many doctors, not all, but many doctors are busy. They're lazy. They're behind. They're they they're behind on the Mercedes Benz payment, and they just want to get you in and out as quickly as possible. that is their practice model and they were inadequately trained on the diagnosis and the treatment of thyroid conditions. And so the worst kind of ignorance, Dr. Amy, that I've ever encountered is arrogant ignorance. and you kind of alluded to it in your story that not only would they say I don't know, but basically the implication is if I the doctor don't know what's going on with you, then it must not be important and it must all be in your head and here's some Prozac. And to me, that's the most arrogant, dangerous kind of ignorance that anybody can have as a professional, especially a doctor whose job is to keep you healthier or help you become healthy again. So, just for women watching who are brand new, like, "Oh my god, I got a bunch of those symptoms. " Okay, so you go see the average primary care doctor. I'd say 60 to 70% are going to check one test, and that's a TSH. That stands for thyroid stimulating hormone, — which is not a thyroid hormone. It is a hormone that's secreted by the anterior part of your pituitary gland in your brain. It's not even a marker. It's an indirect proxy marker for overall thyroid health. It's in no way a direct measurement of thyroid function. And so 60 or 70% of the doctors you'll go to will check that one test if it's within normal range which it can be even though you're suffering from severe thyroid disease like crippling disabling thyroid disease you can have a normal TSH right — oh yes — and so then you're like it's all in your head everything your thyroid's fine and they'll say things like I checked all your labs your thyroid's fine they checked one lab and then about 20 to 30% of doctors will check a TSH and a T4 or a free T4. And so for them, that's all your thyroid labs. That's it because that's what they were trained to do. And with those two labs, Dr. Amy, I'm going to rattle off a couple of things that can be completely missed. — You can completely miss uh thyroid cancer. Hashimoto's thyroiditis. You can completely miss mild hypothyroidism. Is there anything else that you that a doctor can be completely blind to just checking a TSH or a TSH and a T4? — Well, and in addition to that, it they're missing the answer to your symptoms. So whether you maybe you've

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00) [20:00]

you're listening and you've been diagnosed with hypothyroidism and or Hashimoto's and you're on T4 or you might even be on natural desecated thyroid, NDT. And I've seen this over and over again, even in the functional and integrative world, where no one is checking reverse T3. — Yes, — I think free T3 and reverse T3 are the two most important tests you can get, and you need to have them done every single time you check your thyroid — because they tell us something. Reverse T3 will tell us whether or not your body is properly taking that levo, that synthroidid, the armor, the NP thyroid that you're taking and converting it over into T3, the active thyroid hormone. So, reverse T3 tells us a lot. And not only does it tell us, hey, maybe we might need to change up this thyroid treatment a little bit, lower the T4, add in some T3, but it also tells us that we need to look deeper into you. at is there insulin resistance driving this reverse T3? Are you low in selenium, magnesium, iodine? Maybe you have estrogen dominance. You're under a boatload of stress. You got cortisol pumping. Or maybe you have one of these weird genetic snips that just make you a non-converter. But it tells us all of that. One marker that and gives us another direction that we can look at that we can go into to again al ultimately make you feel better. — Yeah, I totally agree. And so the very first red flag is a doctor discounting or not being really interested in your bullet point symptoms when you go in. And I agree with Dr. Amy. Doctors are busy. We have to factor in the human factor here. They're super busy. They've got five to 10 minutes with you. And if you go in with five pages of paragraphs, they cannot. They just literally cannot. Also, they're not going to, but also they cannot, right? But if you go in with like, okay, I I looked up low thyroid symptoms and I've got 15 of them, but these are the ones, maybe the seven or eight that really are just destroying my quality of life. Put those in your bullet list. And then when it comes to the lab tests, put those on your list as well. And it you should not have to do this as a patient, but you might have to put a short little blurb about why you want that test because if you go to a TSH only doctor and you ask them for a reverse T3, honey, you're a third, you're off in La Land at that point. You're off in the conspiracy theory world. You believe in aliens. Like literally, they think you're just a knucklehead. Uh same goes for the uh thyroid antibodies. If you ask for a TPO antibbody or a TG antibbody or god forbid both, — you're cra you're a cook. You you're one of those women. Okay? And you don't want to be in that bucket of those women because then you're everything's in your head. You could come in with a bone sticking out of your skin and it'd be all in your head at that point if you ask for a TPO antibody and a TG antibody. But that's part of the full thyroid panel. — So if so, first red flag if they discount your symptoms, big don't want to hear your symptoms really. Then uh red flag number two is if they just check a TSH, don't walk, run. They have no concept of just how complicated and complex thyroid physiology is. if they check a TSH in a free T4, maybe they're educable, but that's still, I think, a little red flag, but maybe you can work with that doctor. Now, uh you mentioned natural desiccated thyroid — treatment. 90% of doctors are and 99% of endocrinologists if they diagnose you with hypothyroidism or Hashimoto's they're going to put you on synthroidid or levothyroxine which is fake T4 it does not contain anything else except that — now NDT can is basically dried and ground up purified and then uh they send it off for third party testing it could be armor nature WPN I think one of those is defunct now. And then in Canada it's called FA. Is that correct? Still — around. — Yep. And that contain NDT contains real T4. — But it also contains real T3 and real T2. Wait, what? — And real T1 and real T0. Yep, that's a thing. And also some calcetonin. All of which a healthy human thyroid gland makes, — but you don't have a healthy thyroid

### Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00) [25:00]

gland or you wouldn't be having all these symptoms. And so that's the huge difference is basically the standard of care is fake T4 and then many doctors if you go in and ask for armor or nature by name, you're back in that crazy woman bucket again. — Absolutely — right. And it's it's so disappointing. Um, so go over, let's just go over the full thyroid panel because yours may differ a little bit from mine. — What you recommend, what's your full thyroid panel? uh the and then also I want to talk about the less common hypothyroid symptoms because everybody knows I think the top five or seven but there's some that are almost eponomous like if you have that symptom you have hypothyroidism but those symptoms don't get talked about a lot — right no they don't so I'm glad you brought that up okay so full thyroid panel I like TSH let's throw that on there you know just for giggles We might as well look at it. Free T4, free T3, reverse T3, and then you had mentioned TPO, thyroid peroxidase, and sometimes you'll see it as anti-TG, TGA, but it's thyrolobuline antibbody. So, there are two antibodies. And I can't tell you, I'm sure you've seen this too. The amount of times that people will say, "Oh, yeah, I have my antibodies tested and there's one. " — Yep. Michael. Well, um, yeah, there's two that we need to look at here. So, now the total T4 and the total T3. — Listen, if they get thrown on, sure, let's look at them, but I don't want to see a total T3 without a free T3. — Agreed. — Yeah. Yep. So, that's the panel. — And then anything you wanted to add? Is that different from yours? — No, that's exactly my panel. And then obviously if somebody comes in with some of the common low thyroid symptoms, I'm obviously going to be checking other labs as well. Yeah. Because so many of the low thyroid symptoms can also be low testosterone, low progesterone, low adrenal gland, or overactive adrenal gland. So if you go in with low thyroid symptoms, the doc shouldn't just check thyroid labs. They should be checking lots of different labs because so many of these symptoms — and signs overlap and you might have more than one hormonal condition and which is super common especially what if you're over 45 50 as a woman you you're you probably do have more than one hormonal condition that could be optimized. And so tell us some of just the less commonly heard about Low thyroid symptoms and Hashimoto symptoms — that don't get talked about enough. — Yes. Yes. Okay. So, for the thyroid, I always say from head to toe, it runs the show. So, let's start at the top. So, we got hair loss, hair breaking, or actual bald spots. That's definitely connected to autoimmune because where we see one autoimmune, we'll see more than one. So if you have Hashimoto's, it's very common to see alopecia or celiac disease or rheumatoid arthritis pop up, psoriasis. So we start at the top hair, then we go outer corners of the eyebrows starting to thin or disappear, brain function, everything, memory, cognition, mood, anxiety, depression, forgetfulness. — Yep. Dry eyes, dry nose, mucous membranes, dry mouth, dry lips, horarsseness in your throat, swollen throat all the time, clearing your throat often, a low heart rate, a low body temperature, a low blood pressure, obviously low metabolism. So if we think hypo, low and slow, think of every system in your body just slowing down. That's that low mood, low energy, low brain function, low metabolism. Then we go into joint pain. Frozen shoulder is a big one. Oh, I forgot about migraines at the head. Migraines, frozen shoulder, joint pain, muscle pain. You wouldn't really stop and go, "Wow, my I have frozen shoulder. Must be my thyroid. " But there is a connection there. There's a strong connection. digestion, bloating, constipation, acid reflux, um the cracked heels on your feet, cracked elbows, dry skin. — I'm trying to think if I miss anything, but those are some of the ones that like just as you go from literally head to toe, every symptom, every part of your body, every organ is connected to the thyroid because the thyroid is the master gland. It literally runs your entire body. — Yep. Another sign and symptom I've seen over the years that almost always it's at least in part low

### Segment 7 (30:00 - 35:00) [30:00]

thyroid is you'll see women who their skin is so dry that they crack and bleed around their fingernails — especially in the winter. Now some of that can be winter dry skin but very commonly that's undiagnosed hypothyroidism. — Uh and then let me you brought up depression. Let me just say this for all the women watching because they do get unintentionally gas lit so often. Depression which Dr. Amy mentions and another very common diagnosis women are given fibromyalgia. These are diagnosis of exclusion. And one of the reasons one of the many reasons that you don't just talk to somebody for five minutes and say yeah you you're you got depression. I'm going to get you some selex. That is malpractice in my opinion. That's inappropriate. That's incomplete. That's not helpful. Uh because hypothyroidism, and you tell me if you disagree, Dr. Amy, hypothyroidism can give you every single symptom of depression, clinical depression — and it can give you most of the symptoms of fibromyalgia. — And so if your doctor just said, "Yeah, you got depression. Yeah, you got fibromyalgia. Yeah, you got chronic pain syndrome. " and they didn't check any labs, specifically a full thyroid panel, you were mistreated in my opinion. What say you, Dr. Amy? — Oh, 100%. Of course, I agree. Actually, when we look at functional psychiatry, those psychiatrists breaking out of the conventional box are actually using T3 to treat things like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Because when we look at the brain, there are T3 receptor sites on the brain. So now they're realizing, okay, maybe instead of lithium or an anti-csychotic or an anti-depressant, we actually treat these people's thyroids and give them T3, the active thyroid hormone, and oh look, their brain lights up and their mood stabilizes. Now, I'm not saying in the cases of true brain chemistry disorders, like true bipolar disorder, I'm not saying that that's that is all you need. there might still be a need for another medication, but you and I know in most cases of just generalized depression. It's not a Prozac deficiency. It's a thyroid hormone deficiency. So, usually that will do the trick and you won't have to be on an anti-depressant that has a boatload of side effects with it. — Yep. I agree. Here's a question from Denise, one of our PhD community members. Does and we covered this a little bit. Does underactive thyroid cause or increase pain and widespread muscle aches? — Well, yes. I would say directly and indirectly because of the inflammation that occurs. So, when your thyroid isn't functioning properly, even circulation, I forgot to mention that when I went head to toe, circulation is down. So, just getting blood flow to different areas, to your muscles, to your joints. We know that lack of blood flow, lack of oxygen to those areas will create pain in and of itself independently independent of a thyroid problem. Now you add a thyroid problem on it, circulation slows, blood flow slows down. Now you're exacerbating. So you might have had an injury there that's worse because of an underactive thyroid or the underactive thyroid is literally creating the pain in your body just like someone getting diagnosed with fibromyalgia. that overall widespread pain that no one can really pinpoint. It's not like you were in a car accident or that you had, you know, a major traumatic injury. It's just this achiness that's all over and it's that widespread inflammation. — Yep. I totally agree. Another question from the PhD community. No, that's not the one. Here's the one. Look at this. Even I think even a first year medical student should be able to get this right. But — whoa — um you must be new to the community because I would have we would have already talked about this TSH of 60 uh T4 for free T4 of 49 thyrolobuline antibody 15. 4 before. Didn't check a TG antibbody. Didn't check a reverse T3, but I don't even think you need it in this case. Can't lose weight and I'm ketoore. So, she's got her diet dialed in. — Uh, but what do you make of these labs? I'm going to put you on the spot. This is a very difficult case study here. — Oh, I love looking at labs. It geeks me out. So, uh, obviously this is a case where the TSH is screaming at us, like literally screaming from the rooftops. Yes. That you have hypothyroidism. Now the thyrolyoglobulin antibbody coming back at a 15. 4. My rule of thumb is any antibbody is an antibbody. It's a soldier attacking your thyroid. So in this case, I would say the presence of Hashimoto's is here. I don't care what the standard lab value range says. If it if it's like less than

### Segment 8 (35:00 - 40:00) [35:00]

34 and you're only coming in at a 15, no, your doctor is not going to say um you have Hashimoto's. But we would because we're seeing the presence of those soldiers attacking your thyroid. — Yeah, this is I mean definitely you need a free T3, you need a reverse TPO antibbody just so we can see the full picture. — But this is a case that requires treatment. I mean you need it. — Yeah. And let me just state this real quick since we're talking about medication. I really want everyone listening to think of thyroid medication as hormone replacement. Just like we would take progesterone, testosterone, estradiol, BHRT, biioidentical hormone replacement therapy, thyroid medication falls into that category. I don't want you to think of it as that, oh, there's an orange pill bottle on my bathroom counter and I don't want — that's not a medicine that is hormone replacement. And I thought I say that all the time. I think it's very important because a lot of people come to the proper human diet community. They want to get off all meds. And I'm like, yes, I'm 100% for that. But your thyroid replacement hormone pill is not a med, right? It's not a pharmaceutical. That's something your body needs because your body's not making it. Now, I've seen several cases of Hashimoto's calm down. If not, go into remission by improving the diet significantly. But if you have hypothyroidism, you're probably not going to fix that with diet. You need your thyroid hormone replacement. Do you agree with that? — Oh, absolutely. Now, we can't do thyroid hormone replacement on a dumpster fire, right? So the fact that you're cleaning up your diet, you are creating that beautiful foundation so that when we bring in the thyroid hormone replacement or hormone replacement like bio identical sex hormone replacement, it works where I can't tell you the amount of times I mean I've even seen we've had patients come in on a GLP1 which is supposed to be the surefire thing to lower A1C and get the weight off, right? We had one patient, her A1C was an 11. 9. She was on ompic for a year and a half, wasn't budging anything. She was carnivore, she was easily 150 pounds overweight, and it was all because her reverse T3 was high, her free T3 was low, she wasn't on the right thyroid treatment. When we just shifted that, then the GLP actually started working. Her A1C came down to a 5. 4. She lost 150 pounds. It all worked together. Now the way she was eating started working with her biochemistry and working with her body and she reaped the rewards. But because her thyroid was in the toilet in the beginning, not even a prescribed GLP1 worked. — Yep. Now, one thing I want to make very clear for the women watching and the few men who have these thyroid issues is that uh this case that we're looking at on the screen right now, a lot of doctors and some patients think of this as just a vanity issue. Oh, she can't lose weight. Oh, she doesn't feel great. This is dangerous. I need to be very clear about this and I think Dr. Amy would agree. If you have untreated hypothyroidism, like this is not a vanity. mirror issue. This increases your risk of heart failure. electrolyte abnormalities. This incre increases your risk of dangerous mental and psychiatric disorders. This increases your risk of encphylopathy, arrhythmias, so many things. You are increasing the risk of bad things happening to you. This is not just, oh, my jeans don't fit. — And I think a lot of doctors think that's all this is really about when it comes to women's health. But that's absolutely false. — See, this is why I think we were separated at birth because I say this all the time. And you're right. I am as guilty as anyone of focusing on the vanity metrics because that's what we focus on, especially as women. When our hair is falling out and our clothes don't fit and we're dragging our butts through the day because we can't even wake up on five cups of coffee. That's what we focus on. But you're 100% right. There is the long-term consequences of an untreated thyroid. And it's all of the things that you mentioned. I'll throw in one more. There's a lot of hype on the internet. I'm seeing some influencers post about this of how this thyroid medication could cause cancer and they're talking about levbo or cynthroidid. Now, I looked into the research on this and it's not that the medication itself causes cancer, right? We can't make that direct correlation. It's not a carcinogenic medication that you're taking, but it's the fact that, and you said in the beginning, T4 only, T4

### Segment 9 (40:00 - 45:00) [40:00]

monotherapy rarely works to truly optimize someone. And I heard a stat a while ago. It's like 2% do well on T4. Only 98% of us need T4 and T3 together. So when you consider that and like we said from head to toe, it runs the show. If every system is slowed down, guess what? So is your immune system and your surveillance team. So those your immune system is constantly looking for wonky cells. Those cells that are going to become cancers are maybe flipped and they go out and they destroy them because we all have cancer cells. It's the matter of do we have an immune system that can surveil and go out and destroy. So when you're on T4 only, your thyroid is not optimized. Everything is working at a slower pace including your immune system. Yes, you can be more prone to cancer because you don't have you don't have the troops out there scouring and looking for the bad guys. And I think this is a great point that it's probably not the levothyroxine [clears throat] that's increasing the risk of cancer. It what's cancer is you you've inadequately treated the hypothyroidism. I think that's a brilliant observation and I think it gives people a little insight into just how complicated doing a good job in medicine is because so many times we'll latch on to a proxy marker for something and be like, "Oh, they're taking, you know, fake T4 and their risk their cancer rates higher. Therefore, no, no, no. There's 20 different ways that you could parse that. " And so you're I loved how you said influencers are gurus because very often they like to run their mouth more than they run their brain. Uh so here's a great question. Uh does underactive thyroid affect your LDL levels? — Oh, — and I can tell you a very funny story about this. When I first started my clinic back in 2002, I was going to do a bunch of labs in-house because I wanted to have the answer right then so I could, you know, the same visit. They wouldn't have to come back for a second visit. And so I'd gotten a lipid panel machine. And I'd looked up on Medicare, what are all the diagnosis that'll pay for getting a lipid panel so that of course I can make as much money with my lipid panel machine as possible, but also provide the most comprehensive care. if you had a diagnosis code that justified that, I was going to check it. And one of the diagnosis codes was hypothyroidism. And I was like, I mean, I was out of residency. I was completely done. I was like, what does that have to do with a lipid panel? Literally had never been taught that it directly affects your total cholesterol, your LDL cholesterol, and probably even your triglycerides as well. — Yes. That's how I learned that. that was looking at a Medicare reimbursement schedule going, "Oh, I if they've got low thyroid, I can bill for a lipid panel. Wonder why. " So, when I got home that night, I had to look that up and that's how I learned that they're connected. — I love it. So, I Yes, they are 100% connected. I always talk about the thyroid, insulin, cholesterol triangle — and and I talk about as a triangle because the thyroid's at the top and we know that low thyroid function, hypothyroidism can directly impact your glucose balance and your insulin. Just like I talked about the patient that had an A1C of 11. 4 wouldn't come down, right? Because her thyroid was in the toilet. So, we can see insulin resistance on a carnivore diet when the thyroid is in the toilet. So direct impact on insulin and glucose. And then we know that high insulin, insulin resistance will drive cholesterol, specifically LDL. But the thyroid can also create this wonky lipid panel where it's not real. Now again, then of course we have to break down, well, what is high on a lipid panel? Like what is a bad LDL as opposed to what the standard lab value ranges tell us or what our PCP tells us? And that's a whole other discussion. But yes, there is that direct effect on your lipid panel and then there's the indirect because your thyroid is also affecting your insulin. — Yep. I love that. Now, you talk about T2 a little more than I hear most people talk about. And while I've looked into this for probably 10 years now, the research around T2 is very, very lacking. But it looks like there's a connection between T2 and proper mitochondrial function — that that's probably a real thing. Teach us a little more about T2, which I don't even know if you can check a T2 level with LabCore or Quest. I don't even

### Segment 10 (45:00 - 50:00) [45:00]

think you can. Is that a specialty lab? — I haven't even found a specialty lab that tests for it. Now, obviously, they had an assay when they did the human studies, but to your point, there's like two human studies on T2. There's 30 years of research. — We have two human studies. And of course, my theory is it's because it's not a pharmaceutical. So, like you mentioned, we knew I mean, it's in NDT. Yes. in a very small amount. — But the amount they were using in the clinical trials, the human studies was anywhere between 150 and 300 micrograms. Whereas a 60 mgram tablet of armor might have I did the math a long time ago, like four micrograms, five micrograms. — It's not much. — But when we look at T2, it turns out yes, it is an exogenous metabolite thyroid hormone. It acts on the mitochondria. It doesn't really change thyroid labs. Now, a couple studies show that there's a small thyromimetic effect, meaning when you take T2 exogenously, the TSH will drop a little bit, the free T3 will go up a little bit. So, there's a little bit of a change in your labs, but it's not going to be to the point where your uneducated doc is going to look at your labs and go, "Oh my gosh, Sally, you are now hyper thyroid. " So, it's not going to do that. T3 will do that, but T2 won't. Now, I was looking at this back in my competition bodybuilding days. So, I always reference this interview that I saw with one of the top pro trainers. Like, he trained the best of the best athletes. And he's sitting there going, "Okay, you know, I don't let my athletes use T3. " Because of those of you listening, bodybuilders were the OGs of biohacking. And yeah, there are people that took T3 whether they need it or not because it would burn body fat and get them ready for the stage. It just is what it is. So he says, "I don't let my athletes take T3 because they're going to come out the other side of this show with a thyroid problem. They're going to shut down their own thyroid production with that negative feedback loop to the hypothalamus and pituitary, right? And they're going to come out the other side with a thyroid problem. And in addition, T3 will burn both muscle and fat. We don't want them to burn muscle. they just work their butts off trying to build muscle. He goes, "I only use T2 because it works at the mitochondria level. It's not going to produce a thyroid problem if they go off of it after the show. And it only burns body fat because it increases the resting metabolic rate, increases thermogenesis, browns white atapost tissue, and leaves the muscle alone. " And I saw that I'm like, "This is fascinating. " So, at the time, it was only in a bro science formula. It was literally in a bottle with a gorilla with claw marks on the front. — So, I had to tell my 45-year-old patients, just trust me on this one, girl. Um, just take this. She's like, "What? I'm going to take a supplement that has like pain on the bottle and a gorilla. " And I'm like, "Just trust me. " So, anecdotally, and yes, if I had the money to run a clinical trial, I would totally do it. But anecdotally, I've seen T2 work over and over again. Even in patients on T4 only, it's still work to move that needle and help them lose the weight — because you only have to add one more iodine uh Adam and then you turn T2 into T3. — Uh so yeah, I totally see how and I I'm with you. I wish there was so much more research, but uh starting about and just for everybody watching, starting about the 1930s, 40s and 50s used to we did good research on good meaningful questions that you could then help a ton of people with. But starting about the 40s and 50s, if there was not a patentable pill or injection as a possible outcome of your research, then department heads and people who wrote the checks for research stopped being interested in any of that research. And it continues until this day. Unless there's an oimpic or a a Viagra, right, or a Crestor at the end of your research, the people who write the checks for research have no interest. And so if you literally a young researcher went to their department head at one of the best institutions in the world for thyroid research and said, "I want to do a good research study about T2 because we don't know much about it. " Literally crickets chirping. Nobody would be interested. And more importantly, nobody would fund that study because there's no pharmaceutical at the end of that pipeline. Now, we've talked about a lot of things. Thyroid, let's talk about minerals. Let's talk about iodine, selenium, zinc, iron

### Segment 11 (50:00 - 55:00) [50:00]

vitamin D. Let's talk about all that stuff because all that stuff is intimately related. And I've got videos on my YouTube channel about iodine and how important that is for your entire body, not just your thyroid. But walk through the most common deficiencies that you see and do you think that iodine deficiencies is as ubiquitous as I do etc. — Yes. So let's start with iodine because it's the most controversial and like you said it it's needed by the entire body. But people out there they're confused because they're hearing again influencers practitioners they're saying no be scared of iodine. I mean, we have whole books telling people to avoid iodine containing foods. It's like, this is craziness. So, again, let's just go to the basic science. What do we know? — We know that iodine is needed by the entire body. Does a great job at improving your immune system. By the way, before I fly, I increase my iodine dose. I haven't been sick in like two years. Knock on wood. And we also know that on the periodic table of elements, iodine is part of a h hallogen hallide family. So when we're exposed to fluoride and hopefully no one is still using fluoride toothpaste, but we all did at some point and we all had the little pink fluoride treatment that our dentist gave us, right? The little pink pill. — So fluoride also in our water, chlorine in our water. We're exposed all the time. broomemide in our food, on our clothes, carpets, furniture, lawns, everywhere. So, we are being constantly exposed to these toxins, these toxic hallides. The only thing that can displace one of those toxins from your cell is iodine. Iodine will take the place of a toxic hallide on your cell if you have enough of it. But if you don't, then those toxices are taking over your body. Just on that basic scientific principle alone, I cannot understand why people are antiodine. Now, I get it. There are practitioners out there that gave a first timer, you know, 50 milligrams and they went into hyperyroidism and a thyroid storm. That is so few and far between. If you start iodine the proper way, you titrate up slowly, you listen to your body, watch your symptoms, it's fantastic. And I have seen, especially when we have people coming in to the clinic and we're treating them, as we know, thyroid hormone replacement, it's going to take a while for us to get to the right dose and build that up in your system and all that. — But they start taking iodine. They're like, — okay, the lights came on for the first time. I'm feeling better. I don't know what this is, but this is fantastic. And then we're like, well, it's only going to get better from here. But it's the iodine that's lightening up everything, reducing your reverse T3. Um, just improving your symptoms overall right out of the gate. So, iodine is a big one. Selenium. — Let's grab this before we go to the next. Yep. — Uh, no, I'm sorry. That's the wrong one. Where did that? Uh, yeah. Okay, here. Yeah. Christ centered keto says, [clears throat] "When I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism — and Graves disease, everything I read said iodine is bad. Let me be very clear and you tell me if you disagree, Amy. If you have hyperthyroidism, you need a good source of iodine. If you have thyroid cancer, Hashimoto's, and there was a there's a couple of books written by a very prominent person, I won't name, who has a ton of good thyroid information, but gets it exactly wrong about this. If you have Hashimoto's, you need a good source of iodine daily. — I cannot emphasize that enough. If you I don't care if you got thyroid cancer, you need iodine in your diet. [clears throat] The end, do you is that controversial? Should it be? — It is controversial, but it shouldn't be. Right. So, on the thyroid cancer topic, iodine increases I believe I'm saying this right. increases the p-53 protein which suppresses tumor cell growth. So right there alone I mean iodine is phenomenal at even reducing your risk of all cancers let alone thyroid. — And then yes absolutely it's all in the dose. What is that saying? The cure versus the poison is in the dose. — Sure. Every cure is a poison at the at a high enough dose. Yes. — Exactly. So if you have somebody with hyperyroidism and Graves disease and you dump a bunch of iodine on them, yeah, they might get a little bit more hyper and feel way more jittery than they already do. But to your point, a proper dose, a lower dose maybe for those people where you're still getting the benefits of iodine, but you're not increasing like maybe a Hashimoto patient would. Absolutely. I I truly

### Segment 12 (55:00 - 60:00) [55:00]

believe we all need iodine. All of us. — Absolutely. I totally agree. What about selenium and zinc? How big of a problem do you see with people being deficient in selenium and zinc? — It's a it's a two double-edged sword. So, it's a problem that people are selenium deficient, zinc deficient, but what I find in the thyroid community is somebody reads a blog that says selenium is fantastic and will do all this stuff for the thyroid and they go out and they think less is more. So they buy their 200 I forget whether it's microgram or milligram tablet of selenium and they pop two they pop three. Now their selenium is flagged high on the labs. The reverse D3 is pushing up. I find selenium is more of a Goldilocks nutrient where it's like let's just right like 100 to 200 that's it. That's really all you need but you still need it. So you don't want to be deficient and you don't want too much. — U zinc same thing. it starts throwing off your copper zinc ratio. People overdo zinc that's in three of four of their supplements that they're taking and they don't realize it. — You know, that's a problem as much as is low zinc. Um, vitamin D is key. Obviously, that's a hormone plays a huge role in elevated reverse T3. If you're vitamin D deficient, I see that correlation all the time. Obviously, your immune system. So, we'll see increased antibodies when someone is low in vitamin D because their immune system isn't being supported. Vitamin A can be very beneficial as well if used in the right dose in the right quantity with the right person. That can be beneficial. — Yep. Agree. For all the women watching saying, "Yeah, I've got a bunch of those symptoms and yeah, my doctor did exactly that. " What are some tips and tricks and strategies that you've heard people say or you've come up with yourself for the average woman who lives in but Montana and she doesn't have enough money to, you know, do a highpriced consultation. What are some good practical tips and tricks for her? How can she find a doctor near her who at least has a basic understanding of thyroid metabolism if she runs into a doctor with all these red flags that we've been talking about? — Yeah, it is it is so hard and I really truly feel for those people that are in that position because it's going to take some time. You have to be patient and it might take you a little bit of time and multiple phone calls to find the one that is going to be right for you, but they're out there. You know, they're out there. It's a diamond in the rough, but there's enough diamonds out there that you can find one. And it really starts with when you call the office before you go in, before you hand over your co-pay, ask a list of questions. flat out ask, "Hey, is this common for XYZ doctor to test for reverse T3 and free T3 and will he or she test for that? " Do you prescribe Armor thyroid, NP thyroid, liothyine? Do you prescribe these other medications outside cthroidid and levothyroxine for hypothyroidism in your practice? And you want these questions answered. And if they can't answer them, then have them go to the doctor and get the answers and call you back because if they want your business, they're going to find out the answers to your questions. And then, you know, then it's a matter of, okay, you got to trust. If you get those answers back and you're like, okay, this feels good. You go in and you do all the things that we already talked about, the bulleted list of symptoms, labs that you want, learn what those optimal lab values actually mean and where they should be. So you can look at your own labs and go, "Hey doc, you know, this free T3, yeah, I know it's a 2. 5 and it's within normal limits, but I really know that I need to be in the upper quadrant of the range here for free T3. " And guess what? Since free T since T3 is the active thyroid hormone and I have all of these symptoms that I bulleted out for you, it makes sense to me that a low T3 would be producing these symptoms. So, can we have a discussion about the best way to treat this? Like, I have some ideas, but I'd like this to be a collaborative effort, just like you teach all the time, Dr. Ken. It's a collaboration. Your doctor is working with you. So, have that discussion. And you never know. And you might have to do this two, three, seven times, but you're going to find one that finally goes, you know what? I genuinely care about you and I want you to feel better and live your best life. So, let's do this together and we'll see. Let me give one more good practical tip for people who live maybe in a rural community. Call a locallyowned pharmacy, not CVS or Walgreens. — It's even better if they compound medicine. If they're a compounding pharmacy, call them. And the pharmacist

### Segment 13 (60:00 - 65:00) [1:00:00]

guess what? Will actually talk to you. It's so weird. But if you call CVS, no, you can forget it. They're not going to help you. But you call a locallyowned pharmacy like Smith Drugs, Hopkins Apothecary, something like that, and you say, "Hey, who's the doctor around close who prescribes armor or NP thyroid? " And they'll know, especially if they're a compounding pharmacy. They'll be like, "Oh, that's Dr. McGillicuy. he's down the street or he may be in the next county over. But still, even if you have to drive an hour and a half each way, you if you have thyroid disease, you want a doctor who understands the intricacies of thyroid metabolism or you're going to suffer. And then you said one other thing and I want to I want to see what you think about this strategy. If somebody gets their labs checked and their TSH is 2. 5, but they still have a ton of symptoms or their T3 is normal, but it's in kind of the lower range. — Mhm. — And they say, "Hey, could we bump up my my armor or nature or could we bump up the lithronine just a T3? " And the doctor's like, "Oh, no. We know because what the doctor thinks is if I do that then I'm treating you thyroid. I am treating a normal thyroid. That's what that's how they think about this. And to them that sounds that's no bueno. You don't do that. Right? — But so here's an argument that a lady told me that was she was successful with and I want to see what you think about this. She said, "Okay, let me ask you this. " cuz her thigh her TSH was 2. 9 and he's like I'm not and she has still had 10 symptoms. He said I'm not going to increase your armor. You're lucky I even put you on armor. I don't normally use that but I'm definitely not going to increase that. She said well let me ask you this. What if my TSH had been 1. 1? What would you have done? And he said well I mean nothing. It's normal. She's like okay so 1. 1's normal and healthy and safe right? And he's like, "Yeah. " She said, "Well, then why can't we bump up my armor dose so that I get my TSH down to what you've said is normal, 1. 1? " And I was like, "Dude, that's brilliant. " Do you see the mind game? She played with this guy. And he's like, — he's like, "Well, yeah, no, I get it. Okay, we'll bump it up a little just for a short-term trial. " And then she's like, "Oh, yeah. I feel much better now. " What do you think about that strategy? — I love that. That is fantastic. I love it. Absolutely. Anything that you can do to just kind of shift the way that they look at things. You know, even bringing up the fact that if we look at TSH alone — back in the day, the optimal or the standard lab value range went all the way up to a 10. — And then we started arguing going, you know, I think we need to drop this down. and the American Academy of whoever endocrinologists got together and said, "All right, we'll take it to a six. " So, for a while it was a six and then somebody said, "H, you know what? H still too high. Let's take it down again. " Now, it's a 4. 5. So, who knows? I mean, we give it two more years and somebody's going to be like, "Yeah, let's take that back to a two. " So it's if you just look at the history of the TSH standard lab value range, it has been changed throughout the past three decades. So why not change it again? Why are we lo so locked into a number that's constantly moving? — Because that would require that research for which there's no pharmaceutical at the end of the pipeline. That's why. But Dr. Amy's exactly right. If you had thyroid hypothyroidism back in the 1980s and you went to their your doctor, they checked the TSH and your TSH was 8. 9, your doctor would say, "Your thyroid's fine. This is not this is all in your head. Here's some whatever the hell prolibrium that they were giving women back then or Valium or whatever. " It's like, "Yeah, it's just all in your head. " But so, yes, I totally agree. I think that if anybody's TSH is above 3. 5 really and they've got multiple symptoms, which I'm always going to ask about, I think that the thyroid conversation needs to be had and the full thyroid panel needs to be checked. Now, we got another question uh that I think would be great uh to close with if I can find it here. Basically, she said, "How do we find? " And we already talked about how to the tricks, but if they are like, "Yeah, the closest doctor to me is eight hours away. How can people find you, Dr. Amy, and maybe uh become your patient or your client, and get some thyroid help? " — Absolutely. So, you can go to drammy. com, dam. com. You can book a free call. We're just going to go over Listen, what have you done? what have you tried? You know, where are you at in your journey? And

### Segment 14 (65:00 - 69:00) [1:05:00]

then that way we can pair you up with the best possible program of what you need. We do prescribe to all 50 states. So, we can absolutely help you. And that's the beauty of what happened in 2020 is that the prescribing borders opened. So what that did I think even for the listeners for the people out there it allowed them to see hey I can get as good of care via teleaalth where I don't necessarily have to find a doctor in my hometown and go to go into the clinic. I mean in a perfect world that's fantastic but your chances are very slim of finding that open-minded practitioner that's going to treat you properly. So that's the beauty of tellahalth. So it got all of us more used to doing medical consultations from our home in front of a camera in front of our phone computer. — And now that that's the norm these days now we have people from everywhere doing this because they realize, oh, this is where I'm going to get the best of the best care. It's going to be outside of my hometown most likely. And that's okay because I'm at least working with true thyroid and hormone experts instead of going in and crossing my fingers and wishing on a rainbow that this doc is going to know what a full thyroid panel is. — Yep. Do you think AI is going to help doctors take better care of women with thyroid conditions? — You know, I've been pondering this for a while, of course. Um, you know, I think the downside of AI, even things that we're seeing in the clinic of people saying, "Well, I talked to Chad GBT and" and it's like Chad GBT hasn't even been trained on functional medicine. It is literally pulling from mainly conventional medicine. So, the misinformation is there and it's getting into people's heads. It's just like Dr. Google back in, you know, 2005 when I was on my gateway computer. It's good and bad. It at least gives people maybe an idea of what's going on with them, but I don't think we can totally rely on it. Even as practitioners, we can't just expect to get all the answers from chat GBT because sometimes it's wrong and sometimes it's loaded with misinformation. So, you still have to use your brain. pay attention to the patient. You still have to treat them as more than a lab value and as a genuine human being with issues. I think AI can guide, but I hope to God it doesn't take over. — Oh, same. But I wouldn't be surprised if it does. Dr. Amy, this has been absolutely a pleasure. Thank you so much. Any final words of wisdom or advice for the millions and millions of women out there currently suffering from undiagnosed hypothyroidism and Hashimoto's thyroiditis. — Yes. So number one, you have to look at your symptoms as gifts. GFS, gifts given to you by your body. — Nice. — Those symptoms are they're given to you to say, "Hey, your body was not built to be fat, foggy, fatigued, constipated. You were built to thrive, to love life, to be living your best life ever. So when those symptoms come up, just pay attention. just go, "Okay, I accept this. Now, I'm going to find out what's driving those symptoms because something's going on. " Those symptoms give you that sign that something's going on. We need to dig a little bit deeper and look underneath the hood here. And then I want you to have hope because how I often think about this, Dr. Ken, what if I would have stopped at doctor number four? Five, five white coats, five medical medically trained professionals told me that there was nothing wrong. So, if I would have stopped and just succumbed to that lack of diagnosis, I wouldn't be here with you today. — So, you have to have hope and you got to keep going. — I love that ending message, Dr. Amy. Thank you so much everybody. I got links for Dr. Amy's stuff down in the show notes. Um I feel like we should have a round two of this. You guys tell me in the comments, do we need to do round two? I feel like we do. Thank you, Dr. Amy. Uh we'll see you guys next time. Thank you.