# Harvard Professor: Why Your Life Has No Meaning

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Dave Asprey
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0gqCcBoltc
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/33255

## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

I spent about $2. 5 million reverse my age and losing the weight. Losing the first 50 lbs wasn't that hard. The other 50 lbs took 10 years of understanding biology. — These are the people who don't entirely understand that psychology is biology. The reason that self-improvement is not very successful is because it's a series of epiphies that then burn off. The reason is because it doesn't install in the brain in the right way. You can take your methylene blue and you can get in a cold plunge which is suffering which is probably good for you. But that's not what it's all about. You need to deal with what and how to questions in your life. But if you don't have the why questions, then your life is going to run in circles. The answer is not the ashram necessarily or Italy or the beach. It's the right side of your brain. — You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. This is going to be an incredible episode because we're talking about biology and psychology and the meaning of life with none other than Arthur Brooks who is a well-known author. He's a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School. And we're going to go deep on happiness and where it comes from, how you get it, and we'll talk about neurology, psychology, biology, and how they all come together so you can maybe have the kind of life you want. Arthur, welcome back on the show. — Thanks, Dave. Great to be back. — Arthur, you wrote a book with Oprah on happiness. — Yeah, that's the last time we talked. We were talking about that book, right? — Yeah. So, I think you changed a lot of lives with it, but what made you want to write another book? — There's always another book, as you know. There's always life is a long string of books, but — you're at 15 books, right? — Yeah. — I'm only a nine. — I mean, you're doing great. And the whole idea when you're in the world of ideas is that the book is 75,000 words that collects all your ideas and becomes the 10th pill in a 2 to three year span. That's why we write the books. It's not about the book sales. I mean, I have a column that on a good week has 500,000 readers, which is a runaway blockbuster bestseller for books. Mhm. — And so it's not about the numbers really. It's about how it organizes you and your thinking. That's what books are really all about. — The two best ways to really understand something are to teach it and to write it 100%. — Yeah. So and the way that to incorporate any sort of new idea into your life. The reason that self-improvement is not very successful is because it's a series of epiphies — that then burn off. And so you see something on the internet, somebody famous says a thing, you're like, "Ah, yeah, that's exactly right. " And then you don't live it and in a week later it's gone. And the whole idea for a good idea that will change your life is you have to understand the underlying science. — Yes. — Number two, you need to change your habits, — which is a lot of the activity, the lyic system of your brain. And number three, then you need to teach it. That's what it comes down to. So if anybody who's watching, you know, the human upgrade, which everybody here watches it every week or listens to it every week, it's a really important thing to do. Good for your life. If you really want these ideas to stick with you, you need to understand the science that you and your guest are talking about. — Commit to changing your habits and explain this. Recreate the episode for your family and your friends and then it will become part of your life. And so that's a lot of what I teach. — Wow. And that's how communities happen and that's why I do the show too. It creates a big ripple effect. — Totally. I mean, a lot of your fans are they're talking about your stuff all the time and they're trying to share it — because that's how it becomes installed permanently in their brains. — As long as it's worthy. Uh it's a big responsibility. — I'm at about almost 600 million uh downloads of the show. That's — really — Yeah, that's something like two or 30 hundred human lifetimes. — So, if I'm not making good content, I'm kind of a mass murderer. — Do you ever think about that with your column? Like the number of human minutes that you spend? — I haven't. Although you know we calculate all sorts of metrics around how much penetration it's getting you how many people are consuming this information in different ways and for me what's really important is actually trying to see how sticky it is by getting feedback and communicating with people about how it's changing their lives and that's changed how I do my work you know what I talk about how I talk about it etc and you know thinking deeply about how people are learning the material absorbing it and that's the reason that what I really want I think what we should all want in the improvement ment community, the human performance community is to make teachers of it, not to make students of it. — Wow. — Yeah. — So good. And it's such a shared mission. That is exactly the thing. And I remember once a vegan asked me, I was giving a talk at Google's headquarters and he said, "I I want to be a food activist. What's your advice? " And my advice was shut up and eat. He goes, "What do you mean? " Yeah. And I said, "Well, if your stuff works, and maybe it will for you, then you need to be so healthy and so happy that people ask you. " — Right. But you can't just go out and force it down their throat because you want to. And that's the difference between teaching and — activism. Yeah. — You know, activism is a huge problem because activism is about coercing other

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

people. — It's bullying. — It's a problem. And so that's, you know, I've worked in a lot of missionary communities and different religions. As a matter of fact, the most effective missionaries are the ones who are creating an apostlate with the example of their lives. That's what it comes down to. Why am I going to trust Dave Aspir? Because you weighed 300 lb and now you're 6% body fat — and because you were unhealthy and now you're healthy — because you're a walking laboratory. It's the same thing. You know, I know Brian Johnson, you probably too. He's a fantastic guy. And you know, people say like, "Oh, what a waste of money that, you know, it's like, no, — I'm the laboratory. You're not the laboratory. and if it works for me, you might want to try it. — That's what's what it's really all about as opposed to activism which is heranging people and trying to coersse them into doing something whether you're doing it or not. — I spent about $2 and half million dollars reverse my age and losing the weight and all that stuff. I didn't want to. It was just I didn't have a choice. Right. So if someone — $2 half million — Yeah. — losing going for cuz what do you you're 160 lbs 175? — I'm 198 — actually cuz you're taller than me. Right. And you got good muscle mass. So yeah. And uh it, you know, losing the first 50 pounds wasn't that hard. The other 50 pounds took 10 years of understanding biology. And the rest of it was mostly on longevity stuff. — Um because I've been in that field for 25 years. But — I haven't done that in one year cuz I'm not that rich. — You know, I don't know that I want to spend eight hours a day on longevity practice. I've gone through phases of just measuring everything. But at a certain point, you're learning your instrumentation. So I haven't monitored my sleep for 19 years. I don't look at my aura ring score very often because I already know it. Yeah. Right. It's just it's there if I want it. Right. But it's a shift that comes from awareness. — Right. And then if you're aware of your state more so than you were before, then you can be done with the data. Right. — Right. Because you've now changed your habits because you figured out, oh, alcohol really does screw me up and things like that. — No, that's exactly right. And so you've gotten very good at understanding your own body. And a lot of what I'm trying to do is to get people to understand their own soul in a different way, their own consciousness in a different way with that. And that's a different species of problem, but you can approach it in much the same way. And that's really what this new work is about. — What is consciousness? — Yeah. So consciousness is not anything that we understand very well. It is so hard to understand that it's hard to define. As a matter of fact, even David Schalmer struggles to define what that the Australian uh philosopher about what it is. But it's the whole idea consciousness is awareness of yourself. — So that your dog doesn't have anything like your consciousness. It doesn't know it's alive and going to die, you know. And the very fact that you understand your existence is the essence of consciousness. And that's very mysterious because in all of our knowledge of neuroscience, we've never been able to isolate the consciousness center. — Yeah. — What part of the brain is actually in charge of self-awareness? — Do you think it's a is conscious a brain thing or a body thing? — Well, that's the point. Or is it an external thing? You know, and this is a really big question, too. It's actually very possible that there is a shared consciousness that Dave and Arthur have right now that's external to both of us. — Then gets into a lot of vadic wisdom or or even Christian thinking that talks about what is the nature of the soul and where is the origin and uh where does the soul reside that best describes reality from everything I know from you shamanic realms and neuro feedback induced states and all is yeah consciousness is not resident in the body and world. The one thing that we do know however is that the experiences of consciousness are largely a right hemispheric phenomenon. So and by that this gets to the work of Ian McGillchrist who's really the the most forward thinking as far as I I'm concerned neuroscientist in the world also psychiatrist at Oxford. So he's a real, you know, real Brit, you know, wears a lot of tweed and and he has brought back the whole concept of hemispheric lateralization, which everybody needs to understand because this you is like when you were a kid, — you thought that some people were leftrain people and some people were right brain people. That went completely out of style because it's mostly wrong. — Yeah. It's not real. — Yeah. But Ian McIllchrist has brought back with all of the best fMRI studies the nature of hemispheric lateralization which shows that the right side of your brain is all the mystery and meaning and why questions — and the left side of your brain is all the what and how to and technical tasks and that's really important because if you know something you really deeply know something but you can't articulate it which is the nature of consciousness means it's in the right hemisphere of the brain and — and it's possible with probably psychedelics breath work um somatic awareness practices or — meditation prayer. — Yeah, in my case neuro feedback was the biggest but there's been many — many experiences but you can strengthen the there's a certain word for this. It's not strengthening coherence. It's strengthening entanglement between the two sides of the brain so you can access them both equally. — That's right. You need to — you need to deal with what and how to questions in your life. But if you don't have the why questions, then your life is going to run in circles and you're going to be depressed and anxious. In point of fact, the depression, anxiety epidemics, the psychoggenic epidemics that we have of mood disorders in this

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

country are largely due to the fact that we are not using the right hemispheres of our brain. Why? — Because the way that we use and misuse technology and the nature of our culture and economy are rewarding everything on the left side of the brain and neglecting everything on the right side of the brain. Okay. — Life is all about, you know, I have a lot of students who would more or less argue that if it's not a question you can Google, worth asking. — Wow. — And the truth of the matter is that all right hemisphere questions are ungooable. That AI can't deal with them. — Because they're ineffable effectively. — My favorite word on Earth. — Yeah. The word that means there isn't a word for it. And the reason for that by the way is because in about 97% of humans the two language centers of the brain are in the left hemisphere — the broker area and worn area of the brain which is how you understand and how you articulate are on the left side of the brain. In other words, if you've got language for it, it's not ineffable. — So you need something that's ineffable that stimulates your desire to go out and figure something out which then communicates the two hemispheres of the brain. And this is the point of depression and anxiety. If you don't have any meaning, you'll just be doing stuff. — And in a world of distraction, of screens, of uh workcoholism, of busyness, it's all left brain. It's all — And that's a big problem. So your work on consciousness, all the work that we're so interested in on consciousness is all about opening up the right hemisphere of the brain. And then you will because you don't have to say like somebody's got to tell me the meaning of my life. No, no. You need to open the right hemisphere through the right set of experiences and then you will understand the meaning of your life whether you can articulate it or not. — I love this. Um all of the things that I write about I do my best to write a book that has been written because of all just the author, right? It's just it's easier that way. — Yeah. And when I'm tuning into that, the easiest way by far, or if I'm doing healing work on someone, if you have the skill to stop thinking, which is basically suppressing the thinking, doing part, then there's a knowing, — right? — Right. It's an inner knowing. And then, oh, that's interesting. And then you can think about it. Right. — But most people don't stop thinking. So then they never know. — Right. Where it comes from. Well, that's the essence of you know how people experience meditation when they get much better at it or prayer. — That's the experience that some people have with hallucinogen. Not everybody, but a lot of people actually get that where they there's a lot of knowing without — the kind of overt articulation that they get really used to. And that's the kind of thing that you can do in a pretty straightforward way — by putting your devices away for a — Couple of days. I could I do that? — I know that's exactly right. I mean it's like but you have and so have I. But Most people listening to us and watching us haven't in a really long time. — And so to the extent that you look at your devices, you rip yourself back over to the left hemisphere of your brain again and again. And if you actually use it because you become so unbelievably allergic to boredom, boredom is super important for opening up the right hemisphere. Right. — Especially in kids. — Yeah. Yeah. For exactly right. And there's some people who don't remember the before times — who have never been bored. — You know, I don't experience boredom anymore. Even if I have no device, I can sit there for hours. I'm just get bored. — What do you do on flights? — Uh what do I You're going to Europe tonight. What are you gonna do on the flight? — I'm gonna put on my true dark glasses. I'm going to take the right compounds. I'm going to go to sleep most likely. Otherwise, you know, it's not uncommon for me to listen to an audio book. — Right. Um which is a thinking task, — right? And or just listen to music, but I don't really watch movies very often at all. — Yeah. That's a huge waste of your time for the most part. — Yeah. Movies or listening to audio books? No, no. Audio books are different because you're actually creating the movie. — Uh, but when it's capturing all of your senses, it's way way too much of a left hemisphere experience. — Totally agreed. And there's really interesting data on this. It turns out that listening to or reading fiction for 20 minutes a day has really beneficial effects. — Has that been good for you? — Yeah. Because it makes you imagine. — Yeah. You have to construct the image that matches what you're hearing. Right. — But if I'm just listening to, you know, a personal development book or a science book, — right? — Yeah. I guess I am still imagining because I draw pictures for everything in my head. But the fiction thing I think is really important as long as it's good fiction, right? — Yeah. That was the point that Ostvki made. That's the reason that Doski, who is probably the most important existentialist philosopher, certainly the greatest of the Russian existentialists. — Yeah. — He wrote novels. So did Toltoy. They wrote novels even though they were philosophers because they thought that was the right vehicle that the story was the right vehicle. Einran did that. — I was about to say you read my mind and you know but for my money the Russian existentialist is the way to go and there's a huge resurgence in interest among young people today who are discovering dustki. We're reading you know notes from underground and crime and punishment and brothers K. Oh yeah yeah for sure. I mean in the uh the Toltoy novel I mean the great

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

Tolto Anacarina and War in Peace etc. and they're like well I don't know where's this been all my life — because there's a need for meaning. — Yeah it is. — And that's a vehicle that what that does is stories will ease this will ease open the door to the right hemisphere of your brain. — Wow. Okay. I love this so much. I remember when I was a kid which isn't that long ago everyone across the US I know right? Uh, I think everyone we stop aging at 35 in our heads. — Yeah. Well, you actually literally did. — That's a fair point. I we first did pretty well. — Yeah. You can actually It's funny because I'm what am I seven years older than you are? — And um I'm healthier and feel better than when I was 30. — You look ripped. I mean, you're doing something right. — Yeah. You know, it's just it's an hour a day in the gym and 200 grams of protein a day. — The protein thing is so important — and keeping calories under control. Yeah. That's what it comes down to. And looking at micro and macronutrients and just doing the basic stuff. I mean, we don't have to go crazy on this, but And have protocols in your life is what it comes down to. Yeah. — Yeah. Just two ribe eyes a day and keep the doctor away. — How about the apple? — Ask your apples, — Steve Jobs. No, the thing that happened a long time ago is all kids everywhere read the same books. We read 1984. We — uh Fahrenheit 451. And there was like a curriculum, — Brave New World. — Yeah. Brave New World, you know, and a bunch of other you Ray Bradbury. And this was just everyone. — It was the cannon. Yeah, it was — a cannon of childhood. — It was and then this kind of woke movement happened and they kind of blew that up and it feels like it kind of shattered some of our shared values in society. — Well, part of it is actually technological as opposed to just ideological. So, for example, when you and I were kids, there were certain shows we all watched. Yes. Right. And there aren't certain shows that everybody watches — like Night Riders Dead. that one was expendable culturally but uh but there was — there were but these were the shared cultural you know uh events that people you know people would come and say did you see Seinfeld last night — as re as recently as the 1990s and that's not happening anymore because of the multiplicity of options which comes from the — the our ability to design our own entertainment alternatives. They're very personal. In other words, we've gotten to the point where it's you don't have to have scale to make money anymore. And that's true all across the information system. — I just read a study saying that young people only listen to 6% of the music as new music because they have access to all the best music from every genre and every generation sorted for them. So there's more young kids today who know Pink Floyd than probably there were 20 years ago. — Right. And there's certainly more young people today who know Beethoven than in 1820. — Yeah. Oh, that's for sure. Because, you know, Beethoven was in his heyday. Beethoven was the greatest composer in central Europe in 1820. Absolutely. — But nobody had a CD player or, you know, there was no way to replicate the music. Buy some sheet music, a version of one of his symphonies. No way. — This is the greatest of times. And yet everybody's depressed and anxious. So there's got to be more we can do for our happiness and our consciousness than setting our phone down for a couple days on a weekend. — Yeah. Know there's a lot. And the whole the first thing is once again is understand the science. Number two change your habits. And three become the teacher. That's for so if we want to and to understand the science is very clear. The mental health crisis I mean there are a lot of different reasons for it. — But the main driver that we can see is the sense that life feels meaningless. — That's what this new book is about. It's called the meaning of your life because this is what we see very clearly. The number one predictor of depression anxiety for people under 30 today is the answer to the question do you does your life feel meaningless? If you say yes it skyrockets this probability of actually experiencing depression anxiety. So that's why my research goes into what is meaning — and where do you find it — and the answer is not the ashram necessarily or Italy or the beach. It's the right side of your brain. This is why I'm talking about this and that's why this hemispheric later collateralization is so important. And all of the techniques are actually finding meaning in your life and healing yourself of these incredible maladies. They have to do with the the in my book is the six ways to open up the right hemisphere of your brain which is the most meaningfilled numinous experiences that you can have that used to be by the way — ordinary life. I mean I'll tell you what granddad Asprey never said to grandma Asprey. He never came home and said, "Honey, I had a panic attack behind the mule today. " — No, I think — because it wasn't a thing. — He was saying, "Honey, I just discovered how to purify plutonium. " Yeah. Well, you're Yeah. But it was but the whole you know the whole point is that there was not the phenomena that we're experiencing every day are blowing up the HPA axis — and creating all these weird maladies and so what we need to do is to live like granddad in a very real way which is extraordinary not ordinary anymore but he was consistently living

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00) [20:00]

numinous experiences that were opening that were using his brain the way it was intended. — Wow. — And so that's what this book is about. The six ways to open up the right hemisphere of your brain. — Okay. Well, let's go through those. — Staring at screens all day is wrecking your vision and your brain. You might just think it's aging, but it's not. It's a broken eyebrain connection. And it gets worse every hour you spend looking at a screen. If you plan to live to 180 and beyond, you need to protect your dominant sense. Now, here's the good news. You can train your visual system just like you train your body or your brain. Screen Fit is a sciencebacked method built by Dr. Bryce Apple Bomb that rebuilds how your brain and eyes work together. No eye drops, no appointments, no gimmicks. Just 15 minutes a day to sharpen focus, reduce fatigue, and protect your vision for the long haul. I saw real results in just a week. If you strive for peak performance or plan to live a very long time like I do, you want clear vision to match. Go to screenfit. com/dave or use code davve to get $200 off and try it for yourself. You'll see what I mean. Literally, there is one biological system that supports your brain, sexual health, muscles, kidneys, joints, skin, hair, literally every cell in your body. It's your vascular system. every nutrient, every molecule of oxygen, every hormone, none of it matters if your body can't deliver it where it needs to go. When you improve your vascular system, you're supporting the foundation everything else depends on. That's why I've been personally using Palroy Health Sciences products for years. Their approach is all about supporting your body's delivery system so everything else you're doing works better. Their flagship products are Arturosil HP and Vasinox HP. Arteril supports your endothelial glycoalix. That's the delicate slippery lining that keeps your blood vessels functioning the way they should. Vasconox HP supports nitric oxide levels and open label published research shows it lasts up to 24 hours with a single daily dose. As always with Calroy, the products are backed by legit research and do what they say they will do. Get your vascular system right and everything else you do will work better. Go to calroy. com/dave for exclusive discounts on Artil HP, Vasanox HP, and all Calroy products. — Number one, where'd you go to college? — I went to UC Santa Barbara and then to Wharton. — Okay, good. Yeah, that's where you did your NBA at Wharton, right? Yeah. — So, let's go back to UC. No offense. Okay. — No, I'm it, man. I'm it, man. Yeah, I know. It's like, so let's go back to UC Santa Barbara. What did you major in? — Computer science. — Did you have fun? — Uh, no. I [ __ ] hated it. — Okay. Did you have friends? — Um, not really. I was still pretty asperers at the time. I had like one good friend also on the spectrum after me. — Oh, yeah. — Yeah. Not being a computer science man. I know. But yeah, — I had to heal all that. Yeah. One of the things when you ask anybody who's over 40 about their experience in college, what did you do after you came home from that party late Saturday night with your friends? We talked. — Yeah, — we talked. Did you Google anything? No, there's no Google. — We talked about deep pretentious things. — One of the most important ways that we can exercise our brains appropriately is to talk about questions to think to consider deep questions that don't have think about it this way. questions that if you put them into AI would make the answers would make you laugh out loud, — right? Like so good. Like what would I give my life for? Ask AI. And it would give you a whole bunch of, you know, it would give you nonsense for your own experience — things that you can't Google because they're they're so deep in the mystery of your own consciousness. Those kinds of questions, those kinds of conversations. The right way to start your pilgrimage toward the meaning of your life — is by answering questions that don't have answers. They only have understanding. — Wow. — I've got two that I actually give to my students. Number one, — why are you alive? — What's your answer, Dave? Why am I alive? Because I decided um against my better judgment and probably because I'm must be masochistic um that I wanted to be reincarnated yet again to go fix some [ __ ] — Yeah. In other words, you're alive to serve others. — There you go. — You're alive because you want to lift others up. — Yep. — That's what it comes down to. — That is true. — For what would you give your life? I give my life — right now? Happily. — Freedom. — Yeah. Tell me more about that. What does that mean? — Well, uh, when people tell you that you can't do things that are inalienable rights, uh, the answer is yes, I can. — You die for it. — Watch me. Yeah, absolutely. Um, — but I'm also not afraid of death because I've done too much work for that. Yeah. So these are very deep questions that most young people really struggle

### Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00) [25:00]

with a lot and the reason is because they never posed these right hemisphere questions. — What are your answers? — My questions are I was God made me to serve others. — There you go. — God made me to serve others for what would I give my life? I would give my life for my faith and my family. country. I would give my life for the betterment of society as I as I could see it if I had the opportunity great privilege to be able to do so under any. — Wow. Very well put. And you know, that's a good list. And I'd certainly Yeah. for family. Absolutely. Like those are things that I almost for your kids. — I wouldn't even think about that as not being obvious, but I think for a lot of people it those aren't obvious. — Yeah. And that's because they haven't posed these deep questions. The number one thing to do is — it sounds easy, but it's not. It's not just putting away the devices. And by the way, no joke, you got to detox to be able to do this because if you're looking at your phone or picking up your phone every 13 minutes all the way through an exercise like this, you're going to be cutting off the cycles and at you're going to be bumping. You're going to just running to the left hemisphere of your brain again and again and again. You're not going to have the time to actually expand on these things. But that's the first thing to do. And so one of the first things I recommend to people is that I have a retreat — is I send people on retreat all the time without devices for several. You've done it a lot. So have I. — Yeah. — I go on a spiritual retreat every December. And it's a hugely important experience because you need to actually detox. You need to get bored in the right way such that these questions become possible and they're not possible under ordinary circumstances. — It seems like you need to do that but you also need to be in a community with other people where you can have those deep conversations. — Helps a lot. Helps a lot. And that you know the best way to do it by the way is to have a partner — who's actually in the on the road to the right hemisphere. You know, — that's is one of the most important things my wife and I, we do every Sunday afternoon is we read sacred scripture and we talk about, you know, what it actually means. And we're not googling it. — Mhm. — You know, we're opening up maybe a commentary here and there. We're talking about actually what it's how it's speaking to us. And it's something we've been doing. We've been married for a long time. Been married for 34 years. — Congratulations. — Well, that's the antenna to the divine, which is to say the fusing of our right hemispheres. That is this joint metaccognition that actually can occur which is the second path. — Metacognition tell me more. — Well, metacognition is thinking about thinking. — Mhm. — And metacognition is actually using your prefrontal cortex to understand your lyic system is what it comes and joint metacognition is one where you're really wiring your batteries together. — Yeah. — In an important way. And that's the essence of deep love. And that's really the second mysterious experience that people actually use to open up their right hemisphere is romantic love, which of course is in very short supply today. — Yeah, it sure is. — People say, "Oh yeah, everybody's hooking up. If only — I mean that's actually not what you see in the data on young people today. — They're not hooking up at all. — That's the problem. And the reason is it's we have a love crisis. depression because we're stuck in the left hemisphere. You got — 80% of men are consuming pornography every week. My god, this is destroying the ability of couples to come together. — Is it at least good porn or no? — There ain't none. No such thing, man. It — laugh was great. — It doesn't exist because it what it's doing is it's it's stripping human love of it of its numminousness. — Yes. — And all it's leaving is the technology. — The worst thing you can do. — Yes. — You can't. That's just it's like the the first thing that all young men and by the way 30% of young women look at porn every week too. — The first thing for young people to do is to go on no porn. The first thing to do to repair your brain is to go on that. — This stuff is like meth. It is. I I've had that conversation with uh with my kids um especially my son. He's 16 now. — Yeah. — And danger danger. — Yeah. And I we explained this is the mechanism. This is the science. This is the why. — Right. and it's not good for you. And to the best of my understanding, it's not part of his habit stack. — Uh and I hope it stays that way, but — Yeah. Well, the more that he the best way to teach that, of course, is by example. — Oh, yeah. — And with as dads, — you know, I mean, my kids are older. I've got four grandsons now. And uh the best way to teach kids is living in a particular way because you be the person you want them to become, — right? — Like just okay, what do I want my son to be? Okay, I want him to be upright. morally impeccable. I want him to be honest to his word. I want him to be compassionate. I want him to be loyal. — Okay. Well, I just actually gave myself a list of characteristics to live up to. — Yeah. Exactly. — Cuz he's looking at you all the time. — Yeah. Dad. Like dad says don't, you know, yell out the car curse words in traffic. But he just did that. — Yep. — Right. Like if you want your kids to practice your religion, have them see you on your knees — is what it comes down to. You know, a force greater than you. So but so romantic love is this second is the second numinous force is so mysterious and the neuroscience of falling in love is so interesting actually you know all the weird things that actually happen in the human brain

### Segment 7 (30:00 - 35:00) [30:00]

— and I mean friendship really really good but romantic love has these unusual characteristics that we actually see — right — for the last couple years I dated a relationship coach and we've done a lot of relationship coaching together it was actually great because at least we could talk about stuff. Um, we're not dating now. I just different long-term goals. But, — uh, it was really cool to be able to go deep on people's relationships with them and understand exactly what you're saying about romantic love. It's — I do this all the time. It's the number one topic in my my, uh, happiness science class at Harvard — that they want to talk about. They'd keep me on that topic the whole semester. — Wow. — That's what they want. They want to talk about, you know, what are the secrets to relationships that last? The next book that I write, probably in 2028 or something, will be called Falling in Love and Staying in Love. — Wow. That's going to be a big book. — I hope so. — So, so give me the 30 second synopsis of that book. — This the 30 secondond synopsis of that book is it it really has to do with the the fusion of two brains. — Yes. — I mean, that's what romantic love that's the goal of romantic love. And that's actually neurochemically that's effectively what's happening. And so I mean the image that comes to mind of course is in the Bible they talk about man you know shall leave his mother and father and they shall become one flesh. It's really the flesh that we're talking about is one brain. Yeah. — I mean you're thinking about as sex or something that's not what they're really it's one brain — and the reason is because what you see couples that are they're really close that they're a lot of their if you do EKGs — on couples that are really close they have you know it's called braintobrain coupling. M that's the reason that they can finish each other's sentences — and the longer that they're together and that's a that's the important phenomenon. And so neurochemically you're trying to get into that particular position and when you can't that's the reason that people who were in love now hate each other — because they had it was a completely unsuccessful attempt and it's embittering — to actually make a to make a go of it to fuse and then to not fuse and we're getting much better. the research is getting clearer and clearer about how the synchronization doesn't work right — and then the kind of personalities that ruin it again and again. — Interesting. — So I wind up giving a lot of advice to young women because they tend if they want to fall in love which of course everybody does — it's that's a natural human tendency because we want meaning right of course — is that they tend to be easy prey for what's called dark triad. Yep. — narcissists mchavelians who have psychopathic tendencies. That's a that's the trifecta to be above average on those three personality characteristics. And that's for that's a one in 14 — wow — men one in 14 people but especially men 7% of the population fall into the dark — triad. I had about four to 5% for narcissist and sociopaths but you're adding Machavelians which Yeah. And so it's and have you had Scott Barry Kaufman on the show? — Twice. Great. He's the father of the dark triad. — Great at that. — Yeah. He really knows the dark triad really well. And what happens is the dark triads, they act as if they're going through the neurochemical cascade of falling in love that your brain's refusing, but they're not. — You get tired of a couple of those, too. They're hard to spot. Man, that was a lesson in discernment. — Well, except that you get better at it. You do — for sure. Women get better at it, you know. So, you know, when I talk about it, I'll say they you want to think, you want a dark triad is it's your first husband. — And I say to guys, don't be somebody's first husband. Right? I mean, but the whole point is that there's a tendency to fall in love really easily with this because people want love and they want the fusion is the way that works. And men are more they're more resistant to that fusion because of the biological imperatives. I mean men are you know sorting on they're trying to get actually as much variety as they can sexual etc. but not if they're conscious. Right? — So, if you're in a leftbrain pornography informed understanding of mating and sex, — then you'll tend to be more all about variety and you're more likely to behave as a dark tri. — Interesting. — And if you're actually in the business of actually trying to get to fusion, — then you can actually live in your mating in the in your space of moral aspiration, not animal impulse. And that's the way all that's what all guys should be going for. — So, I live in Austin. — Yeah. which is a pretty — where we are right now. — Exactly. And I know quite a few very happy successful couples — where there is some variety — where they occasionally invite a friend in. — Yeah. That's very unusual. That's actually that's an almost complete aberration from the norm. — And this isn't poly. That's what I'm talking about. — No, you're talking about what they call ethical non- monogamy or something like that. — Not even like dating other people. That's like they'll add a to the bedroom. — That's very unusual. — But both partners very unusual. Most and in most cases of that and again I'm not speaking for anybody and you know no judgment here but in most cases that's something that the idea comes from the male partner — and the female partner to keep the male partner is will actually accept. — She's doing it against her will. You're saying — not against her will but not certainly it's not her will. It's not against her will but it's not her it — wasn't her idea.

### Segment 8 (35:00 - 40:00) [35:00]

— Well she has her biggest priority is keeping the her partner. — Mhm. — And so it's a costbenefit analysis. But it's not idealve I it's a very unusual phenomenon is what we say for most couples human beings are made for pair bond — I agree most of the couples I know who are like that have done huge amounts of personal development work feeling safe with each other and having like a deep commitment and then it's like okay now we'll play but if they're not secure it always blows up every single — and I would wonder I mean if I were to dig as deep as I possibly could I'd want to talk to her alone — interesting In other words, you know he wants that and you love him, — right? — Would you prefer that he didn't want that? — Oh, yeah. And I bet it would almost always be. Yeah. — Yeah. I could see that. — Yeah. And so what we as men ideally can do better — is curb our this animal impulse to get into the space of moral aspiration because in that space of moral aspiration, we're more likely to get right brain fusion. — have a divine experience with the pair bond mate. — Got it. — Yeah. And I suppose that brings in compion. Compersion is um feeling happiness or pleasure from your partner getting what they want. — Yeah. — Which that's like a throppple poly kind of word. But the couples I've spoken with in all this relationship coaching, the ones who've they've both done all kinds of meditation and stuff and there's like I genuinely at my core feel joy from seeing my partner in pleasure. — Yeah. That's it's entirely possible. And again, you know, there's all there's more and more written about this, but what I find most compelling is at the norm, you know, at the sort of — at the norm. That's crazy. — Yeah. No, there was just it's the kind of thing for most couples like what? No. — No, no. Yeah. — Yeah. For most couples. Absolutely. — Part of it. It can't be you can't have the depth of intimacy, — you know, that you can't have the sort of the secret society that is every strong couple in the same way, right? — Yeah. — Somebody's got a security clearance who shouldn't have it. — Well said. So good. — Well, that's number two. We only have — Number two. All right, guys. Let's go to the next one. What's number two? — The next one is is called transcendence, which for most people is a religious experience, but not entirely. — Yeah. — Transcendence is getting small — and making the universe large. Now, you know a lot about this, right? — This is the essence of trying to experience consciousness in a deeper way. — The that you are impelled by your animal impulses to be the center of everything, — to be the star of your psychodrama. me me me me me me me D D D D ave's breakfast and Dave's money and Dave's experiences and Dave's got to check in early for, you know, get his flight and — it's just so boring. — I mean, like the Arthur show, I just hate it. — But the in the space of moral aspiration, there's a universe that's greater in which we can stand in. That's transcendence. And for most people, the way that they get that is through religious experiences. Some people is through, you know, it's like our friend Ryan Holidayiday. — He's he does this through studying the stoics. Yeah. And living according to their precepts. Other people do it with a brahma mahorta, you know, they'll get up before dawn — without devices in the creator's time. — I've gone through phases of that. — Um some people do this with music. — Mhm. — A lot of people do this with meditation. But the whole point is you need to transcend yourself. You need to get small. Some people do this by studying astronomy, — right? Yeah. And it's like, wow, I'm a speck on a speck. — Yeah. — And they get this smallalness. And another way to do this is by serving other people in a very serious way. So transcending yourself laterally is another way to do this. — But this is a huge rightbrain experience is when you when you're small — and something else is bigger than you. And the a big problem with sort of the activist propaganda that we see today is you know we like you in our universities are always saying you need more selfcare — and then we introduced this idea of radical self-care which apparently means you need to actually neglect others to the ex to you need to exclude others so that you can pay more attention to yourself. Wow. — It's exactly the opposite of what you need to do. completely toxic and the whole activist culture of microaggressions and safe spaces is all antithetical to transcendence. I've often said that Greta Grundleberg, what's her name? Greta Thunberg. — Look, she just lost all your Swedish viewers. Yet the bra there. — I bet you actually the Swedes are super cool. I bet you got a long time. — A thousand more just now. — Yeah. 17 years married to a Swede. They're very cool. — Really? — Yeah. — Um very cool culture. But yeah, Greta is just angry. Very angry. And people focus on the self. — Yeah. People spreading anger especially without solutions. — Yeah. I mean, focus on the self will always make you angry. — It'll make you bitter. — Wow. It's just not that you if you can't be bitter when you're not when you're focusing on the other. That's what William James, the great, you know, the father of psychology. — Yeah. — He uh at Harvard we say my colleague William James

### Segment 9 (40:00 - 45:00) [40:00]

— you know, the he talked about the I self and the me self. — Oh, interesting. — And so looking in the mirror is the me self. So you can understand yourself. And that's the essence of you know consciousness is a funny thing, right? Because you're looking out, but you're also looking in. — Mhm. — And the problem is it's too much looking in, not enough looking out. And so rebalancing it, less me self, more I myself. That's the essence of transcendence. — Wow. — To stand in. And the best way to do that is to stand in awe. You've had Dak Kelner on the show, right? — I know. — He teaches at Berkeley. He's a great — Will AJ. You got that? — He's one of the great psychologists of our time and he does he has a book called Awe. — Yeah. You'd love him. He's great. We use gratitude and or awe as a gateway to forgiveness when the 40 years of Zen stuff. You have to have one of those two states. You can't listen and go. — Yeah. — You need that. There's something has to be more amazing and bigger than you. — Yeah. — And to say I'm so small. Like I mean you I'm so small, you know, and that so that's super important. That transcendence is unbelievably important. — The reason I mentioned cadetine there is it's dissociative. So, you just realize you're not your body. — I know, — right? And it's realizing you're not your body and then where do you go? And it's that switch that gets flipped that means you can then go in with metacognition and just reprogramming your threat responses so you don't get triggered by whatever was triggering you before. — Yeah, that's what I teach my students is that the disassociation with your lyic system. So, I am not my feelings is what my students will say. I am not my feelings. My I am a person who has feelings which are nothing more than an alarm system — because my reptilian brain is telling me that there are threats and opportunities and the response to that are positive and negative emotions. That's all emotions are. — That's all they are. — It's like the check engine light comes on in your car. You're not going to die. — That's right. It shouldn't be pleasant. The check engine light comes on. It's like that's not great. — That means a bad thing is happening. But that's very valuable information. But that's there's only four negative emotions. Fear, anger, disgust, and sadness. Mhm. — Those are the four negative emotions. So the four kinds of alarms that we have because the threats are losing something, being attacked by something or being poisoned by something — and that's why we have fear and anger and we have disgust and we have sadness is what it comes down to. But we're you're not I mean Dave is not a bundle of sadness. You're not sadness. You're a man who feels sadness for appropriate reasons and is working metacognitively to not feel sadness for inappropriate reasons. self-governing individual is what it comes down to. And you need to dissociate and there are different ways to do it. Some people think ketamine is great. — Certainly a prayer life or a meditation practice is super important for that. — Tantric sex is good for that too. — Yeah. So they say journaling is unbelievable for that. Journaling because you can't write with your lyic system. You can only write with your prefrontal cortex. Yeah. — Your seuite, you know, the executive center of your brain. That's super important. — So all of these things go into the experience of transcendence. But transcendence per se is something that nobody who's got a strong and open right hemispheric experience is going to be without — the recognizing that you're smaller than something. I as you were saying that like I started this biohacking movement that is like so far bigger than me. I'm always just like in awe just going I can't believe this is happening. — My wife started buying your stuff. — Okay. — Yeah. I was buying bulletproof coffee for example and this kind of thing just because and it was really good and the whole thing and that's how I mean I'd heard about you I became a lot more acquainted with you because soon as my wife started buying this cool coffee I said I got to understand this guy's the science behind what this guy's — there's some science in there — of course there is there isn't that up — no — well I'll give you some of the new danger coffee that's your big venture now right one of them anyway — yeah I know you've got a lot so the next one is uh is finding your calling which is really important. So for you and me, that's a big deal. — Especially for younger people though. Totally. — Okay. How do you find your calling? You could write a book on that. — Yeah. No, that's that's a really big thing that I've been thinking about and talking to my students an awful lot about. That's doing what you're meant to do — is doing what you feel that you're meant to do. And to to that requires you have to do a lot of work is what it comes down to. We never even talk about that in schools. — We don't talk about that. I mean, the first time you ever hear about that is your graduation speech. — It's true. where like you know the former governor of your state says you know it's up to you to save the world or you know or some guy who like Scott Galloway has got this really funny line where he says that you know the guy who comes to your graduation he says you know do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life and it turns out that he started an aluminum smelting company — and made $3 billion and he's telling young people to go have fun really no wrong right and that has nothing to do with meaning either — it has everything to do with actually your calling trying to get the experiences in your work and understanding enough about yourself, your career pattern, your interests, the passions that you

### Segment 10 (45:00 - 50:00) [45:00]

actually have. It's funny because our whole education system is at odds with that. — You know, I have my own kids. I mean, my oldest son was a validictorian of this high school, went to Princeton, math, econ, I mean, classic. — Yeah. — My second son comes along and it's like nightmare student. — Nightmare student, right? And so his path to finding his calling, he worked on a farm, then joined the Marine Corps. He was a scout sniper in the Marine Corps. That's like this t-shirt, by the way. Banshee is the call sign for the third battalion, fifth marines, snip scout sniper platoon. Their um motto is suffer patiently, patiently suffer. — Wow. — Right. — It's a very consciousness. And um — and you know, that was how he found his calling. And but the whole point is that we as parents have to have the fortitude to allow our kids to do stuff. Yeah. And to the extent that we overparent and we're have a cult of safety and [ __ ] safety. — It's so dumb. It's so dilitterious for our children that that's why it's called danger coffee because who knows what you might do right in the middle of the pandemic. It's very unsafety. I'm like I choose danger. Like I'm so done with safety. — Totally. Give me a dangerous life. life, you And and by the way, that's not just about driving fast and taking drugs. On the contrary, that's the least of it. — I mean, it's like the biggest problem with college today is it's not dangerous intellectually. — Yes. — It's conformist. It's boring. Most of the places where they go because they don't hear anything that's really challenging ideologically. You should feel ideologically imperiled every single day. — That's what it should be. You should be hearing something super weird that makes you uncomfortable every single day or you should ask for your money back. — I can think of a couple times in college there's massive cognitive dissonance that just rocked my reality. Right. — Like I took a religion and violence class taught by a rabbitical scholar. — My assumption was that religious people were just idiots. — Uhhuh. — Right. And I said as much and he laughed and he said, "No, they're very logical. " We were studying Hamas and cults and Jim Jones and all. He said, "They're logical. " said, "If you believe what they believe, then their assumptions on reality, but actually what they're doing is rational. " It's like, "Oh my god, mind blown. They're not idiots. " — I know. And you know, that's forbidden information whether you agree or not. — That isn't the point. — And so this is the whole idea of you know, finding calling is actually putting yourself in this precarious position of experiencing things that are uncomfortable and weird and so that I mean this is an easy case to make for you because you're a walk-in laboratory. — Yeah. — Right. I mean, you're experimenting on yourself. Life should be an experiment. — I've almost died three times. — Well, that's maybe a little too far. — Well, I mean, that wasn't on purpose, — but you know, every young person, there's a lot of people who are under 30 who are watching and listening to us right now. What are your experiments this year? What you're a lab, man. And if you're not actually running experiments in your lab, you're wasting lab time. You're wasting valuable lab time. And that means — I'm going to try something a job I've never done before. or I'm going to go out with somebody and hang out with somebody I' I think I have nothing in common with. — I'm going to actually, you know, somebody that I have a bad relationship with, I'm going to patch it up. — I'm going to do things that I don't like that are really uncomfortable and I'm going to see how they feel keep records, by the way. data. — That's what it means to actually find your calling. — I started that around 25. I said, I'm going to do everything I'm afraid of. — Yeah. There you go. — Right. And literally just went down the list and uh it was hard, but it was completely worth doing. and totally liberating. — The lesson for all those is well you're not going to die if you felt like you were and that's a lot of just yeah liberating is the right word for it. — It's unbelievable. And you know my favorite philosopher is Ralph Aldo Emerson. — It's kind of like Ein Rand but not creepy, right? And I mean he was the guy was so he's just a total Americana. I mean it's Massachusetts in the 19th century and he was a Unitarian minister but he's like a total freethinker. It's like, yeah, like interesting idea. Bring it on. He was the ultimate freethinker. And you know, and so the one thing for everybody who's looking for the calling to read is his famous essay, self-reliance, wrote 1841. Self-reliance. Just read it today. Everybody who hasn't read it today, it's like a tall glass of cool water on a summer's day. — It's so good. That's how you find calling is you experiment and you have an open mind. — It seems like you're you have a kind of cognitive thinking approach to finding your calling. Yeah. Well, there's experience in it, but you have to put yourself logically in the situation where you can have experiences, right? — You definitely have to have the experiences. For me, I had a calling early on that I didn't really think that much about where I just wanted to build the internet. — Yeah, I played a role in that. But it the reason for it was that this was creating just massive um freedom of information like now anything you want you can just find it like it's so magical. And — there were no downsides that we saw this at the time. — Yeah, I know. I was very naive. — Well, it was very it's an incredibly leftrain experience because it's what it

### Segment 11 (50:00 - 55:00) [50:00]

is a simulation of life. Yeah. The internet is a simulation. — Right now, people are having a simulated experience of sitting in a conversation with David Arthur, — right? And it's okay, but you have to understand what's simulation and what isn't. And you have to get outside the simulation. — Super important. That's what they call touching grass. — You got it. And as I worked on my consciousness, um, I was like, I can't do this anymore. There's no soul in it. And then I had hooked electrodes up to my head and did some neuro feedback and I didn't think about it. It just came through me what my mission was and I wrote it down as an intention about being — that was a right brain experience that you had. That's the point. It was absolutely rightrained and I used, you know, feedback to put myself in a right brain state and I wrote something along the lines of like I'm one of the most powerful voices improving the health of humanity — and d I think it worked. — Yeah. — Right. — Congratulations. I mean, but you don't get that information by going as far left as you can. — No, this was far right. I was in a very altered state when it came to me. — Yeah, for sure. — Yeah. It felt like it came through me almost. — For sure. You know, and then the way that I did that is um I walked the communion of the Santiago, which is that ancient walk across northern Spain without, you know, without devices, holding hands with my wife, praying — day after day, and you beat yourself into this — state of submission because you're truly tired and it's hot — and you're walking hundreds of miles and you know, and by the end, not your truth. There's no such thing as your truth. The truth finds you. — You don't find the And the reason is because you have a right brain experience. — Yeah. You're making me think um before I did that I spent three months trekking through Nepal and Tibet and studying with masters in monasteries. — You open the aperture in a big way. — Wow. — Yeah. That that's really important. Pilgrimages are in every religion for a reason. — Without cell phone. — Totally. I mean you can wreck a pilgrimage by looking at the internet — while you're doing it. — So true. — Yeah. Oh my gosh. — So do we have time for two more? — Yeah, more. Let's do it. — Okay. the penultimate the second the last one is beauty. — Now the modern life is bereft of beauty. I mean it's just I'm sorry I mean it's really I mean I'm an old musician. I've made my living as a classical musician all the way through my 20s. So I say this with appropriate humility. Yeah. And — but the truth is that a lot of good research suggests that music is objectively less beautiful. It might be more interesting. — Yeah. It is — right. I mean it's less and it's not just cuz we're old guys, right? But it's objectively less. So when you're looking at a screen, it's objectively less beautiful and rich than when you're looking at real life. — Yeah. — And so the simulation is always a pale comparison to the real thing. — If your experience of nature is seen through your computer screen or especially through your cell phone, — that's a big problem. — And so getting into experiences of beauty is incredible right brain experience. — You can't really understand. So are you sesthetic? You're probably sesthetic. I don't think so. If I am, I'm not aware of it. But I I only think in images. Okay. Like I don't think in words. — Well, so there's sesthesia in that. And so what's effectively happening is that your language centers are actually getting mixed up with data from the occipital lobe of your brain. — I'm hugely senesthetic. So I see color in sound. See color and and most classical musicians are sesthetic. — I mean it's not it's a common thing is the way that works. — These are right brain experiences. These are ineffable experiences. And so, and there's three kinds of beauty that will open up your right brain. Number one is artistic beauty, — which there's not enough of. Number two is natural beauty. The average child under 10 spends between four and seven minutes a day in nature and between four and seven hours in front of the screen. — My god, — that's exactly upside down. — Now, my kids, that's why I raised them on a regenerative farm. — There you go. And the third is moral beauty is called, you know, the Mother Teresa effect where people would, you know, people saw, — you know, Malcolm um Muggaridge wrote the biography of Mother Teresa and it was made into a documentary film called Something Beautiful for God and all these atheists were just couldn't take their eyes off it. And the reason they were transfixed because they were experiencing something — neurobiologically that they couldn't explain, but now we can. — So these are the three kinds of things we need to expose ourselves through systematically. I feel like there's another kind maybe because I'm a deep nerd like there's systems beauty. I remember I was at Burning Man one time and it was the first time I ever saw a drone show — like before they were anywhere and I just saw this and this wave of like the number of millions of hours of human innovation that went into just the possibility of this — for something that doesn't you know that that's a form of moral beauty. So yeah, my father's a mathematician and it was the same thing that we would talk about. He would just get like choked up when he would see a when he see a proof. — My grandmother was like that. — Yeah. — Um and I really get that. I really get cuz what that is that's the pinnacle

### Segment 12 (55:00 - 59:00) [55:00]

of human excellence. — There you go. That's exactly what — Excellence is so magnetic. — Yeah. — Excellence moves us. And you can say, "Well, excellence is excellence in what? Excellence in, you know, programming a bunch of drones. Man, that's the ultimate left brain thing. " Uh the experience of that human excellence is a right brain experience. — Yes, that's super important. even reading a [ __ ] amazing book that's just full of wisdom with no wasted words. That's to me another form of that great and it's so funny because you know I used to go to I lived in Barcelona for a long time. — I've lived there off and on for 35 years. I used to go to the bull fights with my father-in-law. — Oh, amazing. — Cuz he my wife is Spanish and so he was a real afficionado and he was an expert. He's like he my grand my father-in-law was Hemingway basically — except and uh but the real deal without drinking Spaniard without all the drinking and the womanizing anyway. So it's uh you know he would go to the bull fights and he would cry at the bull fights. — He didn't cry all he was like a big crier not a weeper — but he'd go to the bull fights and he would be like this thing would happen and he would start to weep. You know it's like because that was this experience of human excellence which is that moral beauty — that we see. That's what humans can do. And last but not least, here's the most important one. Probably suffering. — Ah, I love this. — Suffering. And you know what? We don't know how to suffer. — You know, you go to campus counseling, you say, "Ah, you know, feeling sad and anxious like, oh, we got to fix that. — That's a problem. That's a pathology wrong. That's evidence of human life. — Yeah. Life is suffering. — Life is suffering. " And but that's the first noble law. That's duka. truth of Buddhism, of course. But more importantly, look, if you got rid of your negative emotion, you'd be dead in a week. — Amen. Yeah. — If you got rid of your negative experiences, it means axiomatically that you're dead. Because life I mean, you're going to have — We're having a great time right now, but you're going to go to the airport and something is going to annoy you. — No, it's not. — That's life. And if we don't learn and grow — you the to the extent that we can put into context and learn and grow from our suffering that is how we open up the sense of meaning only that it comes from the teacher of suffering. — Yeah. — You nobody says you know yeah I figured out the meaning of my life that week at the beach ina said no one ever. — I talk about surrender as a really important — um aspect. There's forgiveness, compassion, and surrender are kind of the three ingredients to enlightenment, — right? — And surrender. If you fully surrender to suffering, — it passes in 20 minutes. And if you don't fully surrender to it, it goes on and on and you spread it to others. — Right? So here here's the Buddhist formula for the physics of what you just said. Suffering equals pain multiplied by resistance. — That's the formula. Pain times resistance. So what everybody's trying to do today to lower their sufferings is by lowering the pain. — What they should be trying to do is to lower the resistance. — That's what it comes down to. Because when you lower the resistance to pain, then you understand what the pain means. — And that lowers the experience of suffering to the point that's not only bearable, it's generative. — That that's why I said when I go to the airport, I won't get annoyed. — Yeah. Because I'm not going to resist it at all. — Yeah. And this is And so this is the key thing. If I could wave a wand for people under 30 today, the number one thing that I would talk about is a greater sacredness to their suffering. — Oh, so good. That's consciousness very largely resides in our approach to the sufferings of everyday life. And I make my students, these are MBA students at HBS pure institution where you got your MBA. — They say my suffering is sacred. And they have this little mantra at the beginning of the day. I'm really grateful for all the pleasant things that are going to happen to me this day, but I'm also grateful for the things that are going to be trouble for me this day because that's my teacher. — That is the most important thing that you've said in this entire interview. That's profound and true. — And yeah, and that's the meaning of life, man. life. And we get one pass. — And we can struggle because we can't find the meaning or we can use it as a pilgrimage to find the meaning and bring it to other people. We get two those are the two choices. That's why I wrote the book. — Wow. — The meaning of your life, finding purpose in an age of emptiness. — All right. Thank you for coming on the show again. What a profound conversation. Just such a pleasure. And guys, I think you need to read this book, right? This is what it's really all about. And you can take your methylene blue and you can get in a cold plunge, which is suffering, which is probably good for you. But — that's not what it's all about. It is. If you make your vessel more powerful, you can do everything that you just learned in this and you can do it with excellence which creates beauty for others. So do it that way. Thank you my friend. See you next time on the Human Upgrade podcast.