# The Chris Voss Show Podcast – Frac Without a K by John W. Ely

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Chris Voss
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk

## Содержание

### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk) Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00)

You wanted the best. You've got the BEST PODCAST. THE HOTTEST podcast in the world. The Chris Voss Show. The preeminent podcast with guests so smart you may experience serious brain bleed. The CEOs, authors, thought leaders, visionaries, and motivators. Get ready. Strap yourself in. Keep your hands, arms, and legs inside the vehicle at all times cuz you're about to go on a monster education roller coaster with your brain. Now, here's your host, Chris Voss. Boo Voss here from the Chris Vosshow. com. Ladies and gentlemen, sings in the mix official. Welcome to Big Show. As always, the Chris F show is a family that loves you. Doesn't judge you at least not as harshly as the rest of the world because you're here to learn. You're here to grow. You're here to make your lives better and learn more and get a brain so big that you'll actually need to get an brain extender on Amazon. You can find that in the brain department. Go to goodreads. com linkedin. com Chrisfos. Yeah, I mean all the channels really. Opinions expressed by guests on the podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the host or the Chris Vos show. Some guests of the show may be advertising on the podcast but is not an endorsement or review of any kind. Today's featured author comes to us from bookstolifemarketing. co. uk. With expert publishing to strategic marketing, they help authors reach their audience and maximize their book success. We have an amazing young man joining us on the show. His name is Frack with or I'm sorry, his name is John W. Eli and the title of his book is called Frack Without a K. out April 7th, 2022. It is spelled F R A K or I'm sorry, F A R C without a K as that's the title of the book. So, we'll get into it, find out what that's all about and all the grand details there. Mr. Elely started his career with Hallebertton Company in 1965 working as a technician for the analytical group while completing his college work. He graduated from Oklahoma State University in 1968, the year I was born with bachelor's in chemistry. On returning in Hallebertton, he served as a chemist and a senior chemist in fracturing research before transferring to the international operations in 1973. While in fracturing research, he was instrumental in the development of the first high temperature fracturing fluids. He also developed nonacquous energized systems and in 1973 he was promoted and transferred to his first assignment overseas in South Iran as a district engineer. 1975 he became a technical adviser eastern hemisphere and was transferred to Bahrain. He traveled and worked in 11 middle eastern countries in this position. In 1976 he transferred to Dubai UAE. The following year was promoted as a technical adviser. international operation was based in Duncan, Oklahoma where his primary duty was to coordinate all phases of research with international field operations. He's now joined NASCO services in 1980 as a engineering manager. His responsibilities included overseeing chemical and mechanical research for engineers and since then joined a number of other service we'll get into. So, welcome to the show. How are you, John? — Doing great. — Awesome. Give us websites. Where do you want people to find out more about you on the interwebs? — Yeah, it's Elra. E L Y F RC. com is where you can look us up on the web. — And so give us a 30,000 overview. What's inside your new book? — Okay. What we do as a company is we design and implement fracturing treatments. This has been going on since but surprising to many people since 1947 — really — where frack was done. We started getting into larger treatments and some of the treatments I was involved in the late60s but fracturing been around a long time and what we do for a living is because I developed some techniques and quality control and so forth. What we do is we go to the field where most of our work is in field operations where we supervise the service companies for operating companies in the US. We've worked worldwide been in every country except Russia — but most South America been pretty much everywhere but just for whatever reason I've not worked in Russia. of work in China and South America and Canada so forth. — What I imagine that gives you quite a perspective having those world travels. Correct. — It was a perspective and of course it's pretty up to date now. It's we actually live two years in South Iran.

### [5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=300s) Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00)

— Oh wow. — When the sha was in power. — Oh really? — It was is relatively safe. We were kind of in an oil field ugly town, but the work was very exciting and challenging and it was very hot and not the greatest place on earth. And then I spent two years and most Bahraini 2 and a half years Bahrain in Dubai. They were quite different places then than they are now of course but and I traveling worldwide. I got a perspective of how the rest of the world lives and kiss the ground of the United States. Glad to be here and glad to be back and stay here. Yeah. There's a lot of people back in your age that used to do Peace Corps and other sort of world travel. So sometimes they just, you know, pack a suitcase and travel the world by ship and see the world. And a lot of young people and people don't do that anymore. And I think that was really important back then because it gave people a perspective as how valuable democracy was here and the freedoms that we had and how rare it is and you know to get that perspective of other cultures and how they lived and stuff and I think more people need to do that nowadays. So in your book why is it titled with the kind of funny title there without a K? — That's a pet peeve of mine. the media when I think fracturing was going on big time way before people even knew it was going on. In fact, most of the producing oil and gas formations in the US wouldn't produce oil and gas without fracturing. — Yeah. — It's but the media when they got word of the evil things we're doing and so forth, they started calling it frack fk or fracking. And this kind of burned me the wrong way. — He misspelled — actually probably wasn't the greatest title in the world because people use this kind of for a textbook or for — and but I thought that was kind of cute. But it probably limited some of the sales of the book. But — yeah, — but in that same context, everybody knows how I feel. I you know, I think you got something about a long time. You need to spell it like it's — your book. You get to do what you want, right? — That's right. — If you guys want to write read something else, go write your own book. — That's my policy. How many years total have you worked in this industry? — If you count the technician work, that's 61 years. — Wow. — I'm slowing down a little bit now and I'm getting older, but I still love what I do and work closely here in the office every day. — Yeah. When you love what you do, it makes all the difference, doesn't it? — Yes, it does. It's only a job. It's a — It's a career. It's something you like to do. I like to play golf, too, but don't have a lot of time for that. — I used to like playing golf, but it didn't like me playing it. My ball would always go in the water, and so would my clubs and so would the cart at that point. I had to finally go, I need to find a hobby that's supposed, you know, this is supposed to be a relaxing hobby. But, you know, I used to tell people, they're like, I should learn to golf. I'm like, if you know how to swear like a and break things over your knee, you can golf. It's all it takes. — Yeah. — And some beers. — It's a challenging sport to say the least. — Yeah. And some beers. That's we always used to get drunk playing golf and then there was always that point where you get relaxed enough drinking to where you could play good golf and then but then you'd have that one extra beer and then it would all go bad just you'd always be trying to find that sweet spot — like most of my maybe myself or my friends I get to be better dancers when they get a little beard — better dancers the So what inspired you to write the first edition of this book? I was in a industry at a time when there was some oh I don't say evil people there are things going on that shouldn't have gone on there was — jobs that were being pumped that weren't exactly pumped as they should be they didn't pump the right amount of sand or chemicals or problem this was very disturbing to me I didn't it just wasn't part of my life my upbringing and I kind of made up my mind before I joined Now it's called that I was going to write that book and that was my first edition. And of course it's not a major part of the book. It just talks about some bad times. And of course, that all came to halt when some people were caught red-handed and there was a $270 million payout to against the service company and people accountants kind of stayed up with product and you

### [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=600s) Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00)

didn't that sort of thing didn't go on and so forth. the warned business is that we got humans working and things happen and things go wrong and there's also a lot of danger and there's a lot of things that control jobs and there's technical aspects and so we take a lot of pride in doing that the right way. — Now in the book you talk about several things regarding your accomplishments over your career. What what's one thing you might be really proud of? One of them was something in the last oh what five or six years ago the society of petroleum engineer gave me an award called the John Franklin Carol award which is for outstanding work in petroleum engineering — and of course I'm not an engineer by degree but most of my work has been in engineering and the other thing was I and I think you mentioned it in the rundown that I really worked hard and was lucky enough to be around with equipment to do it and we developed the first high temperature fracturing fluid for treating deep high. — Yeah. — Now what is did you say deep high? — Deep typically the deeper you go the hotter it is in the earth. — Yeah. — That silliness about going to the center of the earth. It gets pretty dang hot. South Texas, it's about 300° F. — Yeah. — And 10,000 12,000 ft. — Yeah. I mean, yeah. You heating us and sand and all that stuff. You know, I guess we owe you all a big thing cuz I mean, one of the ways we I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, cuz you're the professional here. I believe, you know, fracking was one of the things that led us to become more energy independent than we were, you know, when I grew up in the 70s when we had the big oil crisis, which I think we're going to relive here. Yes, it's that's absolutely true. It's pretty amazing the innovative nature — of the what they've done and what's happened in the last few years with new equipments and new — All right. Well, everyone owes John Elie money. Tip him. — Yeah. I mean the I you know I understand there were sometimes where the fracking What about these you mentioned the news things earlier and so I have to ask this question since I have you on. What about you know there was a lot of the news locked on to places that seemed to from fracking they had more earthquakes sometimes oil bubbing up into people's houses. What was the story on that from your guys' — the the water burning and all that sort of thing that happened back east actually going on because the wells they were drilling back in the 20s and 30s were actually cased with wood and they weren't too isolated and there were some cases where there just wasn't good isolation and we've obviously got away from that. We typically run two or three if not more strings of pipe that are cemented in the ground and then get away with it. The deal about earthquakes, most of the earthquake phenomena is due to water injection, disposal, produced water and it's you just have to stay away from that. You pump huge volumes of water. It's not part of fracturing. Now fracturing is a way you produce oil and gas and water and then this water has to be disposed. Now most of the industry now has figured out places where they can dispose water and that's an ongoing problem that we work on too also is water cleanup and so forth. — Yeah. I mean I lived in Nevada and Vegas for 20 25 years and you know one of the problems they have there is the old those old silver mines and the gold mines. They left a lot of the tailings behind and the water. I mean, they still there's still giant pools of gold refinery chemicals just laying open out in this out in the thing. And you know, some of there's some of that going on that's kind of out there for cleanup. What are some of the biggest challenges maybe you faced in your career? — Oh, I I've also got involved in my career with uncontrolled blowouts. Oh, — my condo. But my first one, which I have some patents relating to it, was a ribeye — rig actually is in 200 ft of water and it disappeared below the floor and I came up with a concept way to try to kill that one and we've used that in Syria and we used it. me I did was not involved with Mondo but it was a actually bigger blowout than Mondo which occurred about 10 years with Ford Mondo. — Oh really?

### [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=900s) Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00)

— But I've had a lot of interest if you don't have a wellhead to drive up to it and put it out like Red Dair used to do. You got to do it from the bottom up and that's challenging. A lot of technology related to that and I've been lucky enough to be involved with oh a dozen or so wells like that. — Wow. Now, hey, you ever watch that show Land Man? — It's on Amazon. What are your thoughts on that? — I don't know too many people that haven't watched that. — He's a great actor. — Oh, he's a super actor. — So, you like that show? Is it close to reality of what the landscape and the surface area is very that's the real thing. — Yeah. — Some of the comments about, you know, you watch a gauge and then when it gets there, the oil comes and all that. That's some silly. — Oh, okay. — But no, I I enjoy that — there. The That's pretty wild. the Yeah, it's a fun show, but I you know I didn't know anything about you know I knew Texas did oil. Well, that was, you know, I just kind of had the Oh, oil Texas. You know, I watched Dallas a few times. I guess maybe the TV show, but I didn't understand, you know, all the stuff that goes on. And so that land man kind of really opened me up to, you know, the camps, whatever they call them, the, you know, and the crews and, you know, all the stuff they deal with, including the dangers of the workplace, you know, where, you know, you're dealing with explosives and chemicals and, you know, you're out there in the heat, which probably, you know, you don't want to spark. — It's I've been involved and we had some people got died in a fire in Syria. Oh, no. It was just not paying sense to your business, but it just happened. But it is dangerous and you work typically very high pressures. You know, the water we got coming out of our tap is probably 15 20 pounds and the pressures that we deal with it fracturing is 10,000 pounds or 15,000 and some rare cases over 20,000 PSI be special iron special equipment and much high very high horsepower pumps. It's pretty amazing thing to see all the equipment gathered up and treating these horizontal wells. Oh yeah. It's crazy, man. It's freaking crazy. As we go through the book, you talk about some of these adventures. Is it kind of a memoir, would you say? — Oh, I tried to. Yeah. Things that have happened that, you know, I've been in some situations that you had to be innovative. I had to drive a rental car backwards at 40 miles an hour. — Now, what was that for? That sounds like a great story. — I had been on a job the previous day and this is near Fort Stockton, Texas. And I guess I had hooked on something that pulled a hose off my transmission. — And I got about halfway to Mckame, Texas, and the car wouldn't go forward anymore. — Oh, — it was 4 4:00 in the morning. I wasn't too worried about traffic. So, I found out you could drive the car backwards and I got almost came in before the transmission just burned up totally. But then the rest of the story was they had some big dogs and some — Oh. — houses by and but anyway, I survived that. — Yeah. — But had lots of travel experience and playing trains and automobile was part of my life. That's where you you got to catch a plane to catch it. So, see, we used to do these vertical wells and you had to go somewhere just about every day. You moved equipment, move people, and move yourself and do a lot of travel. I've got about three million plus miles of travel. — Wow. You got some good cards there for your travel miles. — You can take yourself wherever you want in the world. — Yeah. It's kind of interesting how the world's going. Do you have any thoughts on the closing of the — straight? — Yes. — Yeah. I hopefully I think we got some word that hopefully it may be over soon, but I think some people underestimated their Iran's pos capabilities hiding out rockets and missile so — they've been preparing for this for a while, haven't they? — Yeah. It was such a shame because my wife and I visited Isvahan and Shira and Thrron and were beautiful places and that was when they were under a different regime and a different

### [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=1200s) Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00)

— It's definitely a shame. No one usually wins in war. The Let's see what else is there to talk about for you that we have on the show. I've got Looks like I lost track of my questions. Maybe they're down here. What do you hope people gain when they read your book? What do you hope they find out and learn? — I think you get a little bit of a sense of what's going on, particularly the stories, some of the tactical parts. It wouldn't be too interesting to people, but the stories and things I got into in my career, I think it would be some interest to people. They want to know really what's going on, of course. — Yeah. what's going on in the world and just not the news of you know I mean I if you make eggs you're going to break some if you make some eggs if you make an omelet you're going to make break some eggs I mean things do happen but it seems like with fracking and stuff from what everything I've understood you know we we're able to you know we've been able to create tons of you know independence for us where we're not you know living off social or Saudi Arabia and that — what's happened you on the reservoirs like in Saudi Arabia the Guar field huge field and very permeable very porous and these wells that produce easily 20 to 50,000 barrels per day fracturing — these wells that we're treating are extremely tight if you got that right and it's all oil and gas comes from rocks and if you look to that rock and you stupid enough to hit it with your head or your and you'd break it. It's really tight. But getting that's what fracturing is about is enhancing the surface area open to produce oil and gas. And by doing that and particularly tying it in with the horizontal completions and go over a two to four mile radius, you can produce a lot of oil gas and achieve results that we weren't able to before. And this all started about 20 years ago when we started moving toward horizontal completions. — Yeah. Horizontal completions sounds like my dating life. So as we go through that Oh man, what a Jesus. — One of your questions was is there anything Kevin can replace it? — Yeah. — And I don't think so. — Oh wow. You you must and what we do by you know if you drill into a rock and you got a 5 in hole or 8 in hole that's 20 ft long that's not a lot of surface area open to produce. But when you drill sideways and go out 2 and 12 miles and then you do 50 frack jobs of melting to 20 million pounds of sand and water and so forth, — you can produce thousands of barrels of oil per day or gas concurrently. And it's we we've learned a lot done a lot of things and we still have a ways to go in learning and understanding what's happening beneath the earth. — Yeah. What effect has the green movement had on fracturing? I you know I not to get into a big story, but I took my son-in-law out on a job not too far from Houston and he was just blown away because he couldn't even find a cigarette but location. Everything was so clean and people were caring about — the location and what was going on. I think it's — the green movement per se. Nothing wrong with it, but you got to understand we can't produce enough with windmills and solar that we need to run all the power that's in the world. At some point, we going we'll get there and we go back with you bringing the atomic system back into the to utilize atomic energy. But you got you we need this bad and we need it as you can see what's going on with the price of oil but this war that's going on and just dropping — 10% makes a big difference because we're trying to produce it as fast as we need it. — Yeah. — And sometimes that's really challenging particularly when you have upsets like this. — Did uh do we really need Venezuelan's oil? I guess they have a quality of oil or something that we need. It's like a heavy oil or something. Is there anything — Venezuela know is we call a high gravity. If you've got something like something probably 60 gravity, this stuff some of it is what we call 10 gravity or less. It's very thick. And to get it in the shape to have use it for gasoline takes a lot more refining than

### [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=1500s) Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00)

it does in and the crew the oil that we're typically producing from these shells. — Do we need it? We probably do. Problem is they've got so much of it and they really don't have the refining capacity. And strangely enough, we had all our refining capacity rigged up for handling Middle East crude, which is not as bad as but still pretty heavy crew. It's a big deal for the oil industry. They're actually building a new refinery. And this country, it's the first in 20 years. — Yeah. I was seeing something recently that we for all the liquid gas that we make, LG I think they call it, for all the liquid gas we make, we can't transport it to other harbors or other locations like other parts of the country that need it because it can only be transported on I think it was on 60 Minutes over the weekend because we can't transport it because there's some 100-y old law that says you can't move between ports with a ship that isn't American. I would say that — you might ought to watch out for 60 minutes. They might be telling you something that's a field because there's a hell of a lot of LG transports going forth and it's a huge business. In fact, the one of the problems going on because of the war is the theians got lucky and got a mom got a explosion over in gutter guitar as they call it — and right and shut down about half their capacity. So, it's going to be going to have to work hard. But the LG liqufied natural gas is just compressed gas. There's huge industry, huge facilities being built in South Louisiana and South Texas that are filling up transports and sending overseas. And it's a big huge business. You push my button a little bit about 60 minutes, they say. — Okay. I wanted to ask you the question because you like I say you're a professional. So you've written some other books too. Do we want to get a plug in for those books? — There's two other editions to this book. the uh the first one which was something about some of the things that man are going and then I had to update it 10 or 15 years by and then of course I wrote this one and but I contributed three or four or five books wrote some chapters on fracturing and fracturing fluids and quality control and so forth — that that's but you know mostly what most of that work in the industry work on the engineering side. Do that. We write papers and publications. I've got, you know, 15 or 20 patents that I've got that over the years. But the publications are a big deal that give us a history of what's going on and — and let the industry know about. We may meet typically two or three time during the year. the society of petroleum engineers and then there's a general meeting and then the OTC people come from overseas and to see what the latest the greatest is on things like deep water production you know we're producing oil and gas safely from thousand sins 10,000 12,000 ft and doing that it's pretty amazing what's going Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy. I seems like the technology is advancing and stuff and all that good stuff. As we go out on your website, what do you want people to learn over there? You got services and wells and employment? I think a few things. Tell people, are there any offerings there where people can engage with you in advisory or anything? — If you want latest and greatest technology as far as hydraulic fracturing, we're the place to come. We've done work to optimize treatments and do what is the big cy thing going on right now as we we've done so much increase our efficiency but we also need to improve our recovery. What's really startling to many people is that normally oil and gas that's in a reservoir we don't get these tight reservoirs more than 10 12% of the oil in place. — Oh really? we knew to do a bit better job and — we can just get a few more percentage by optimizing the chemistry and optimizing what we do. We're going to go a long ways. — Yeah, it it'll be an interesting future and what we do out of that and all that good stuff. Thank you very much for coming to the show. We really appreciate I think Did we get your com

### [30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDPxJu8A1Bk&t=1800s) Segment 7 (30:00 - 31:00)

one last time? — Yeah, afra. com. — Thank you very much for coming to the show. We really appreciate it. Okay, I appreciate you having me. Thank you. — And thanks, Donis, for tuning in. Order up his book, Where Refined Books Are Sold. You can get it on Amazon or other great places as well. You can check that out at it's called Frack Without a K, F R A C without a K out April 7th, 2022 by John W. Eely. Thanks very much for tuning in. Go to goodreads. com Chrisfos linkedin. com Chrisfos chrisfos1 on the tik tockie and all this crazy place the internet be go to each other stay safe we'll see you next time you've been listening to the most amazing intelligent podcast ever made to improve your brain and your life warning consuming too much of the Chris show podcast can lead to people thinking you're smarter younger and irresistible sexy consume in regularly moderated amounts consult the doctor for any resulting brain All right.

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