# UMverse Podcast Ep  1

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Tom Merrick
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV75WyreJn4
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/41834

## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

if you're fascinated by the exploding field of VR and AR you need to tune in um verse podcast is your gateway to XR wonders hosted by Tom Merrick from the University of Miami we chat with top experts in VR and AR discover how this groundbreaking Tech is reshaping Industries and our everyday lives whether you're a pro or just curious um verse podcast makes XR fun and easy to understand subscribe now and step into the future with us hello and welcome to the um verse podcast where we explore the exciting world of XR Technologies I'm Tom Merrick associate director of VR and AR initiatives here at the University of Miami on this show we connect with innovators from both the university and Industry who specialize in the development teaching and promotion of extended reality in AI whether it's groundbreaking applications or immersive learning experiences we dive into how XR is shaping the future of education and Beyond so thank you all for joining us so let's get started um on today's episode of um verse we're thrilled to have Dr Jazelle RoR uh an opthalmologist and digital health specialist as the executive director of virtual Care at boson pal Palmer Eye Institute the country's number one eye Hospital uh Gigi as she's known in Intimate circles is a trailblazer in tele medicine having founded the first International chapter of the American tele medicine Association in 2003 I believe um with a focus on VR and AR Technologies she's shaping the future of virtual Healthcare thank you so much for joining us as we explore your Innovative work and vision for digital Health thank you Tom it's really it it's really wonderful to be here and being able to be part of this kind of like being ambassadors and Advocates uh for not only telea Health specifically now we kind of like doing a deep dive into what medical extended reality is also allowing us right uh to be able to impact our patients outcomes as well as their experience overall so I think this is these are very exciting times to be here yes thank great thanks so much you're you know I always talk about you as a Pioneer and you listen you're a Pioneer in what we're doing you're actually a Pioneer for this podcast as you you were my first official guest so thank you so much for being here um when we talk about pioneering you know you've I'm diving right in here so you've played a significant role in the development of tele medicine especially Opthalmology um so one of my questions is what initially Drew you to the intersection of healthcare and digital technology what brought you to boson Palmer and how do you see virtual healthc care evolving in the next five to 10 years wow so that takes me no that's a mouthful I apologize no that takes me back to the 90s um so I was a resident in off mology and internet was made available to all of us as Citizens right because internet has been around for many years uh but at the beginning it was only for the government uh higher education institutions and so forth uh but it wasn't like commercially available or readily available and as Healthcare institutions at least uh in Argentina where I was at that point in time it was made available to us in 1996 to be exact and so I had my first class there and I trained for the very first time what we called medical internet that's what it was called back then in those days and it just blew my mind away I mean I could literally just access any type of information from a medical perspective I'm talking right because I was a resident trying to figure out finding new things for my patients how to understand better how to learn better and I could just access it wherever I was right so whether I was at home on the computer at home or whether I was uh in the hospital and the computer at the nurses station or whatever you could access information on demand that blew away my mind and from then on it has been a roller coaster ride uh of up and downs and and trying out new technologies and trying to see how we can incorporate them 25 years passed by and we got this huge pandemic right so covid became part of our lives our reality and that made everybody not just us but everybody have to do a very di Deep dive into yeah being virtual right and some people had never even thought about it we already had tele medicine programs but because I obviously since I was very much interested in this um I developed the tele medicine programs where we were working at that time but the fact was that I had to start helping out colleagues because many of them started calling me hey you've been doing tele medicine for so many years how do we do this because we just don't know how to communicate with our patients at that point we're talking about March 2020 we weren't saying how can we diagnose how can treat we how can we

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

communicate with our patients so I started to give webinars on how to be able to um develop inter uh personal communication skills um how to develop empathy how to be able to bond uh through video and then obviously what were the tricks and the pearls to do in t of Theology and um I came on basum Palmer's radar and that's how I got into basum Palmer I confess that I was blessed to be able to be Dr Alonso who is the chairman for basum Palmer I his observer in 1997 uh so Basin Palmer has always been a beacon for those opthalmologists uh in Latin America and I would say in the worldwide too and um and so when they called me I was like wow what a chance right so to be able to take all my experience and expertise back to a point where like you just said right it's a very huge important hospital that also needed to be able to Vamp up and and ex expand I would say their virtual services so I said yes and that's that's wonderful so you know as you know for those of us who know you have some somehow an undying wealth of energy and it takes this energy to keep these things going so um you know when you look at your work as the executive director at uh of virtual Care at boson Palmer so how would you say you've been able since we're talking a lot about the XR Technologies how have you been able to Leverage V and AR Technologies and have you seen the technology enhance patient outcomes or do you have any examples quick examples like Breakthrough moments where these tools made real impacts so I'm going to be completely honest with you right now everything that we've been doing for the past two and a half years at Bas Palmer right um have been strictly focused on VR we're actually going to start uh thinking about medical extended in and blending in AR as we work and move forward in this next academic year so far we've been really focusing on virtual reality and I had the chance to see it in both scenarios in both worlds in the clinical world and in the educational world so if I think about education we can start there first um I created Basin Palmer's digital twin so what I was trying to do was to develop a new environment where we could train where we can learn and have a more engaging even a funner experience uh but because we're trying to change the paradigms right so virtual Care Medical extended reality is actually pushing Us in another direction from an experiential I would say perspective so we're living we're experimenting we're experiencing different Sensations because that's what virtual reality really gives you the possibility of maybe listening to the same lecture you would be doing in a conference room in an auditorium but immersed in another reality with other elements that make it so much more in my opinion engaged um so that's from an educational perspective and we can go into that a bit more granular if you want but then if I'm looking at from a clinical perspective and we're talking about patient outcomes and so forth we're also leveraging this technology in order to be able to screen and to test patients better so if you want an aha moment for example it's we're talking about portable technology that is actually let's just say competing against our gold standard technology which are huge very space consuming tests are usually tedious in some cases they take many minutes each per eye patients have to be in special positions in the sense that they have to be kind of like staring at the within the device staring at the fixation like for a long time almost 20 minutes if we're taking depending on the test right and if we're talking about both eyes and now all of a sudden I'm able to take this portable lightweight device to the bedside right so for those patients that are in that are admitted that are hospitalized that need quick decisions to be made on their visual loss uh for example idiopathic uh intracranial hypertension sounds weird right uh complicated but basically your pressure inside your head is actually growing and it's and you're losing vision it's also risky for your life and you have to make decisions and you can't take that patient and put them in a standard uh automatic perimeter you need to do something right there and then and all this technology involves being able to be where the patient needs us to be so VR that's my that was one of my aha moments right so I can actually change the environment and I'm changing the experience we're also doing comprehensive eye tests with the our Technologies and patients really love it because once again it's lightweight it's portable they're sitting they're comfortable uh and they're they have these virtual assistance in some cases they avatars and others their voices but they're guiding them through

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

exactly all the tests so from a patient perspective I think it's a win-win situation and then if I look at it with my healthc care administrator hat on it also makes sense for the institutions we don't need so much retail space or Footprints in order to have all this technology we downscale the amount of um highly skilled technicians that they can keep on working at the top of the scope of their practice with the patients and other things and these things that we really don't need the skilled people just to be able to do we just let the technology Do It um most of the technology is still I would say part of it or large part of it still under research but there's already literature published peer-reviewed literature research is already making uh I would say landfall we're already seeing the results and they're reliable they're precise they're reproductible or you can reproduce these um and so I think I wouldn't say it's a gold standard today but it will soon be listen you've touched on this is great because and you sort of touched on this without saying it like the we talked a little bit about and it's come up a lot in uh healthc care just these hybrid care models yes and I wonder you know if you could talk a little bit about the hybrid you know hybrid care models combining inperson and virtual care which you've sort of touched on what the key and some of those key advantages that you've seen in Opthalmology from this from the hybrid approach so especially in patient engagement I would say so from an Opthalmology perspective we are heavily dependent on Imaging everything that we do or mostly everything we do requires some type of imagery and again we're that means we're heavily dependent on equipment so patients may spend because obviously they're coming to baset Palmer they're looking for a solution to their concerns to their eye conditions and so we have the One-Stop shop I think it's called in English uh in the fact that you can go to basket Palmer you can get any type of Imaging that you actually need and you see the top Specialists they're the top experts and then you go home with everything kind of like your plan your assessment everything done but that also takes time and sometimes you just don't have that time so what if I can uh have you come in an expedited manner just get your Imaging done and everything and we decouple the usual offic visit and then you go home and from the convenience of your home or maybe even your work you are able just to talk to your physician and just focus on those results just focus on what that physician thinks is the best for you so you've optimized your time as a patient because you're in and out for what you really need to be inside and then all that waiting time all the transfer um I have a dear colleague that calls it sometimes slippage uh because there are so many handoffs in the system right but you're at home now and you have all the time of the world and you agree obviously there's an appointment set up so the physician also has all the time in the world within obviously that appointment time to be just with you and just take care of you with that I think experience as a patient I opt for that that's what I'm looking for right and from again a health care perspective we have the patients inside that really need to be inside uh because there's no other way to see them tele medicine isn't going to replace place in person care T Health isn't going to replace us nor as AI but it's surely helping us increase our accessibility that's great you've mentioned a couple colleagues you know dear colleagues think people you've worked with so I wondered if you you'd like to just mentions a few of the your colleagues doctors and and just friends that have sort of influenced you along the way who have made real impacts in your life and you're as it relates to just both from a you know both from a professional but also just a general well-being perspective so it's been a long journey right and U I've been blessed to meet so many people that I consider them all my mentors I mean I think my network is such an a rich Network that I don't know it's it's been so blessing uh I have to start with Rosa Tang Dr Rosa Tang she's a neuro opthalmologist uh in Houston Texas and she was the founder one of the Pioneers with Dr Jade shiffman of the first uh T opthomology interest group which at that point in time was called the IOP Consortium late 90s uh she opened up my mind and she's always been there she's always been guiding me um I would say Dr rased bashour considered like the Pioneer together with uh Dr um Jay Sanders considered the modern fathers of tele medicine here uh in the states and the worldwide uh they were always there to give me kind of like the right advice the right things Dr Dale Alverson former one of the former ATA president uh

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

the American tele medine association's president dear friend of ours we even did tele medicine with my third baby um he's an expert in his field he's a neonatologist um and then I would say my former boss Dr Robert zivar in Argentina he was a very Visionary person and he was always about the experience all I with him I learned it's all about the experience patient and we're both video addicts if we want to say that and everything for us is through a video so you say that an image is worth more than 100 words I think the expression is in English well for me a video is worth more than one million of pictures uh because you get it all in video right you can feel the emotions you can see the background you can do etnography you can understand where the person is actually um and then Dr Alfonso obviously Dr Alonso has been also a key Visionary and I really appreciate not only him haven't been able to recruit me but being able to be side by side and looking as he looks to the Future so I've been blessed to be with pioneers and um and I have many colleagues I mean it would be unfair to have to name them all because be here a lot because I do have a very large it's always tough when you when I ask you to name names because you you'll end this session you're like I forgot to mention and you know Dr Ardo major is another one he's an opthalmologist he's uh he's been one of our Pioneers in e-learning he's done so much for e-learning internationally speaking he's uh traveled all around the world training the trainers uh he also gave me a new perspective um so again yeah it's listen you also and I talk specifically about your you know professional career but I know you talk lovingly about your family which is one of the most imparing quality qualities about you so um it's wonderful and you know we talk about your you grew up in Argentina right so you're you've had an international career from Argentina to the US um so sort of pivoting and you know we pride ourselves here at the University of Miami of being a global you know a global Center for Education um I wonder you know if like how is your experience working across continents influenc your vision for virtual care for Opthalmology for sort of your professional career so two things uh first of all if it weren't for video it would have been very difficult uh because we've always been separated with my family because of my traveling and so forth and I have three kids uh today 29 24 and uh going on 20 and video has always kept us United it together regardless of where we are video conferencing is just part of our family lifestyle and that's important right um and so now I'm going to bridge that uh with the question that you specifically asked about different countries I think there are two main things that may hinder uh being successful in trying to change the Paradigm of Health Care models or how we deliver and how we increase accessibility to healthcare one is cultural appropriateness and the other is governance and so when you have that chance to be able to travel to see to talk to network you understand the cultural differences of each country in each region which may be which may sound like obvious but it's not that obvious because sometimes what for me may be obvious from video perspective someone's like no video no no they get too intimidated no I I'm just going to rely on audio or and so how do you actually leverage off the right technology for that right place in time right and in time because again 30 years ago we weren't even thinking what happened in less than three months in 2020 did what's going to happen right so cultural appropriateness is so much important I mean I have experiences of working with um local um I would say uh shamans which are the Indian or tribal uh witch doctors or medical doctors all the way up to health um Health ministers right so it spans right so from a culture perspective and governance unfortunately I think that technology evolves so fast I mean it grows exponentially right our capability as a humans to adapt isn't exponential it's it's curved but it isn't exponential but governments it's kind of like it's reactive it's not proactive and I've seen that around the globe and so although I do say and emphasize that there are countries that have learned whether it be before the pandemic or during the uh pandemic that ealth should be a policy because it does help us address issues inequity and uh and

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00) [20:00]

accessibility and in these countries for example they're investing heavily in Universal connectivity and you would say what does connectivity have to do with it has to do with everything today it's a social determinant of Health if I'm not on the grid if I can't communicate if I can't get access to my healthare to my information or just to be able to get research to learn more how can I change my behaviors my bad habits how can I improve how can I get access to Better Health so there are countries that have understand that others have an easier task others have a more difficult task but at the end of the day it's about being able to help us design a framework where we can all offer services in health that are safe are reliable that we're in a secure environment and that we feel confident in doing because if you don't feel confident because you feel you're at risk because you're liable because you're accountable because of your license your credential what type of reimbursement are you going to get reimbursed or maybe and I'm these are Hot Topics right maybe you're get getting paid less because you're just doing a virtual consult and you're not doing in person yet I'm treating you the same way I would if I were in person and that sure but I'm virtual I mean I may not be able to touch you but my knowledge my knowhow and I'm still liable and accountable for it so yeah it's interesting we talk about um you mentioned you may not be able to touch you know as we make certain um you know technology advances and even in hapex as we talk were specifically about VR and AR I guess what one of the questions I I'd love to get from you is you know in terms of your research or just the your field uh or just the generally VR and AR what are you most excited about in terms of the future discoveries as it relates to VR AI uh and AR I think I mean obviously how artificial intelligence is going to play into this and what it's going to the role it's going to have in everything else is obviously something that I'm very interested in looking at but I'm a very once again experential person so I'm really looking forward to one handsfree no controllers being to be intuitively working which I already know is there but for Opthalmology and for some things it's still just not there and as you said haptics um to be able to feel it so far everything I mean I wore my first haptic gloves in 1999 and I'll tell you they're pretty much the same things I just saw at the last conference I've been here so although technology has evolved and those that build can actually crucify me for what I'm saying but from a user perspective they're still cumbersome they they're still too I don't know I'm I was a surgeon right so I love things that are delicate that are very thin that are kind of like intuitive and kind of like seamless I would say it's a seamless expression so in the as technology evolves I'm hoping to be able to get that right because being able to feel the same things to hear to see person yeah uh and especially if you're a surgeon right but even though if you're not a surgeon it's uh I mean and I'm just touching the surface can I really get that same experience that same feeling because that's what the immersive and the pervasiveness allows us for right uh it allows us this is a common theme when we talk to medical professionals like we work here with you know the nursing school here at the University of Miami and you know they're we're doing a lot of work in VR but inevitably they're like they can't wait for the haptics to just get a little bit better and as you said like it's you know we're moving that's one area that's sort of mov slowly and it's a little bit more difficult in terms of how you operate so you know I appreciate that so listen this has all been good so I always like to end these uh I'd like to end this uh podcast with sort of a fun silly question as it relates to VR okay so I'm gonna hit you with it so if you could use VR to sort of instantly transport yourself to any place in the world for like a quick Break um where would you go and what snack would you take along with you for the trip oh that's an easy one I would teleport myself right now to The Gallery at my house uh in the backyard I have beautiful gallery in Mendoza Argentina we're in the Hills it's kind of like the Napa Valley uh here in California and I've got all the Andes right in front of me I can see kind of like the frosting on the cake all the snow year round and there's a famous Ridge right where we are where all the paragliders go every weekend and so you see all these beautiful colors just flying around in front of you and then I would have my espresso uh with and the snack would be what we call Alor um and I'm not going to say brand names so

### Segment 6 (25:00 - 26:00) [25:00]

I don't get into trouble but my which is a kind of like a chocolate cookie with dul in between which is kind of like a caramel here um that's my favorite snack and my favorite coffee and just that's my place in the world sounds fantastic just I might come and have a glass of wine sounds like the region I'll have a nice M wine and cheese would be great well listen thank you listen this has been fantastic eye opening really appreciate your time gigg Dr RoR uh thank you for being a Pioneer here on the um verse podcast and we look forward to hearing from you more soon thank you Tom and once again this is these are exciting times I'm so happy and blessed to be part of it and um and I think this is this right we're cross-pollinating we're sharing ideas we're sharing experiences and as you bring more people on board I'm sure we're going to have so much to learn because I keep on learning every day so I'm thank for everybody and on behalf of basum Palmer and basum Palmer verse uh thank you so much for having invited us to be your Pioneers thanks so much we'll be talk soon thanks again bye