# Monthly Tech Round-up: Davos WEF, Claude Cowork, and MacroHard w/ Seb Bunney (TECH013)

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Preston Pysh
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq3qLlcbFK0
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/44862

## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

(00:00) But it's this idea that just AI these days is just eating all of these SAS products. It just means you just cannot compete. I believe we're moving into an era of like personalized applications. If you know what you want, it's able to there's enough applications out there it can get a framework for how to build it and then it can personalize it to your needs. (00:20) So you can have your own meditation app based on exactly what you want. Here's Seb and I just crawling the web, right? And just kind of overwhelmed as to the sheer capacity of things that we can talk about. I mean, it is freaking endless, my friend. Like endless. Welcome back to the show, by the way. Oh, man. It's good to be back. And 2026, another year around the sun. (00:53) But uh it never ceases to amaze me just how much information is out there and how quick things are changing. It really feels like since what AI chat GBT in 2023, it feels like it's a full hockey stick moment. Full hockey stick. Feels like a hockey stick moment. Like just even from the start of the year, it feels like a year's like 2026 is already halfway based on everything that's happening. (01:23) I saw this interview with Elon and um a couple other guys and they were just like, "Yeah, like we are literally going through the singularity right now. " Like we're in it. We are in the singularity right now. Maybe we're the first innings of it, but it's going down. And some of the stuff I'm sure you're watching some of the we the Davos stuff that's coming out. (01:40) And I mean AI is everywhere. It seems like the big bankers are finally coming around to this idea that they're still saying everything's going to be on the blockchain and you have some of the, you know, like uh Brian basically saying that Bitcoin's competing with central banks, right? To one of the I think it was the French central banker and so like the theme is we're amongst massive change. (02:08) like you're not hearing any of the climate change stuff and like energy's bad kind of stuff that you've heard just plagued at these WE meetings anymore and it is a new world order or something happening there that is just shaking the trees but I'm curious you know your initial thoughts on kind of like where we're at in space and time if you have anything to add on that and then I guess we'll jump into the first topic. Oh man, I couldn't agree more. (02:29) And I think what's really fascinating is just seeing like Trump turn up to Davos and basically just say, you know what, in a sense, like the new world order is in this group of elites governing this world. It's over. We need to look out for our own self-interest. (02:47) And I think that this is also in conjunction with the fact that people are seeing technology is outrunning us. It is growing so quickly. We're seeing destabilization on a macro level. We've seen what has happened in Venezuela. Like I've never in my short life I've never had so much uncertainty about what does the world look like in three years time in five years time whereas pre- pandemic I used to feel pretty confident about what the world look like in 5 years time and such. Yeah. (03:12) Well Elon was even asked that on stage today at the web and he gave some forecasts of a couple different things that he thinks is going to happen in the next 3 years. He said 5 years maybe this and then 10 years. He was basically like I have no idea. I cannot possibly have any idea what that looks like in 10 years. Totally. (03:34) I mean, there's the guy who's literally constructing the future as far as I'm concerned based on all the things that he's like actually producing and shipping as opposed to a lot of us out there just kind of pontificating on what we think is going to happen. He's the guy like actually making it happen and that's what he's saying. So, and I feel like time is condensing and that there used to be that saying, what is it? Um, we always overestimate what we do in one year and we underestimate 10 years. And I feel like it's condensed in that it's like we overestimate what we do in a month. (03:58) We massively underestimate year. Like it's crazy what is happening. It is moving at such a pace. One of the more interesting panels there you had Deise Hespus from Google along with the guy from Anthropic and they man they have some weird stuff hitting the I'm going to pull up one of their posts here to kind of kick this off cuz you and I are both using co-work. (04:23) This is Anthropics product. This is mind-blowing. Like, I'm sorry. Like, I don't even use chat GPT. I haven't I don't even know the last time I've logged into that OpenAI account because this co-work is so good that it's like it's laughable when you go back and even look at what that thing's capable of relative to this. (04:42) I don't know if you got the same opinion, but their coding software is insane. Absolutely. Like to me what has just blown me away is I think people have recognized that when you look at AI the reason why AI was phenomenal at coding is that code is just language you're looking at language and you're

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

trying to predict what is the next character or the next word in a sequence and obviously English is just another language and so when you're using codework not to point it at code but instead just your (05:12) everyday files uh to be able to organizational tools create material oh my god it is absolutely profound found as just a like a junior intern helping you out constantly. Yeah. So, this was my first test for it cuz I remember trying to do something like this with OpenAI and it was just it was kind of a train wreck. It was a lot of coordination and I just kind of gave up on a coding project. (05:38) So, I opened up co-work cuz I was seeing all these different posts online of people that were using it for all these different things. And so, I gave it a task. So, I was like, I want to create an app that is a meditation app, right? Cuz I have on my phone, I have this meditation app that I use quite consistently. (05:57) It has like a annual subscription, which isn't that much, but I was like, you know what? If I could just kind of recreate this on my own and not pay this subscription, like it would be kind of a proof of work of how good the, you know, proof of principle, I guess, with co-work. So, I just, you know, started saying, "Hey, this is what it does. (06:14) I want you to do some research. " And then I would like you to make an app and I want it to be beautifully designed as if uh Johnny IV was the designer on the you know on the project. It pumps out like you can see its thought process and how it's like going through like solving it and coming up with its list of things that it's going to accomplish. (06:36) that comes back to me and it's like well would you like to look at the UX to kind of understand what the app will look like or do you want to just like start diving into coding it out and then we'll worry about the UX later I was like no I want to see your design how Johnny I like this design is right so it builds this presentation this PowerPoint presentation that is literally like it came from you know a professional design studio that you would have paid tens of thousands of dollars for the design work and It's showing the whole layout of (07:05) like how it would go, what it would look like. And it's basically asking me for, you know, a thumbs up is like, hey, can we move on to the code now because here's what the design and the UX will look like. And I'm like, yeah, go ahead. So then it goes and starts building this all out. (07:21) And the other thing that I gave it, uh, are you familiar? I think they're called MCPS. Is that what it's I I'm familiar with them. I can't speak to them very detailed. Yeah. So for the audience, it's basically like I don't want to deal with the app store because I mean this was just a proof of concept for me, right? So I don't want to deal with the Apple App Store and having to post that and pay a fee to be a developer and all that other garbage. (07:47) Basically what you can do is you can post your uh the code for this on uh it runs like a website and then what you do is you bookmark the website. You pull up Safari or whatever web browser you're using. you bookmark it and then it actually puts it onto your home screen of your iPhone as if it's an app. And when you click it, it looks and feels like an app. (08:04) There's some limitations to it, but it looks and feels like an app, right? So, I told it, I want you to build it in this cuz I don't want to be dealing with the app store. So, just like from the beginning when you start coding this out, I want it to be one of these so that we can just kind of prove whether this is real or not. So, lo and behold, it goes and it starts coding this thing out. (08:25) And I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to with my past experience with OpenAI, it was just like one bug after the next, and just never could get something working, right? So, it pumps out this code and it tells me to run it in terminal. I run it in terminal and lo and behold, it pops up right on the thing. The thing just worked. It fully functional. (08:44) It looked like I had paid 20 $30,000 to design this app because the UX was flawless and it just worked. I was blown away. I was absolutely floored. And that was kind of the moment for me where I was like, "Oh my god, this is getting crazy cuz I don't know a thing about writing software like that at all. " You and I were texting about it beforehand that it may be a topic we discuss later, but it's this idea that just AI these days is just eating all of these SAS products. It just means you just cannot compete. I believe we're moving (09:19) into an era of like personalized applications. If you know what you want, it's able to there's enough applications out there it can get a framework for how to build it and then it can personalize it to your needs. So you can have your own meditation app based on exactly what you want. Yeah. to this point. (09:37) Just you have Chapmouth talking about this from the All-In podcast. He has this chart that he was showing that they I guess they've been talking about this quite a bit of just how SAS is going to be annihilated with this in the coming two to three years. (09:57) And it's just a for people that are just listening, it's a chart showing the Morgan Stanley SAS index against the NASDAQ 100. And it's just getting annihilated. You got 40% difference since

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

one year ago. uh between the and I would even argue that April was right when the term vibe coding was coined. It was right when people started basically recognizing hey I can just like talk to AI and it will start writing code for me and it's right when I think cursor really started blowing up and people were basically using cursor obviously as an AI tool to help write code in their repository. So fascinating. Yeah. Uh how have you been using it? (10:34) Most people know like I wrote the hidden cost of money and if you go to the back of the hidden cost of money the book there is like four to 500 citations and now what a lot of people don't know is it took me about like two weeks to write that book and this was preai and the reason why it took me two weeks to write the book and have such depth of citations is because I feel really honored that years back like over a decade ago I started to take detailed notes and I think when we've been in person I've shown you some of these notes. I would take detailed notes of every single book that I read that I (11:05) found interesting and I would order all these notes. And so it started out I would just take a whole bunch of notes in Apple Notes. But the problem that I found with Apple notes is I wasn't able to access that information effectively and the search function on Apple Notes is essentially useless. (11:23) So then I ended up kind of upgrading my note takingaking toolkit and upgraded something called Obsidian. And Obsidian allowed me to kind of like tag notes and create hyperlinks to move between notes. It enabled me to be able to visualize notes in a very different way and move throughout the information. So, it was almost like a library where I've got an index file and then I can go search by topic. (11:43) I can search by content type and I can navigate through this content. And ultimately, it was Obsidian and having this scaffolding around my notes that enabled me to be able to pull from all of this information and write the hidden cost of money. M but in the last like month and a half I feel like I've just had that same upgrade again from going from Apple notes to obsidian but this time before um Claude Co came out I decided to try and put cursor so we were just talking about cursor usually most people use cursor for writing code and cursor (12:13) integrated with these various large language models so you could basically start speaking to your code and say hey I want you to edit this file update my homepage or my website can you please add this functionality to my application, you name it. Well, now I ended up pointing the cursor IDE, I think it's called, like um development environment at my note takingaking app and then what I got it to do is take 300 Apple notes that I had stored that I hadn't transferred because it would have taken me days to do so. And I gave it (12:45) criteria and within like 5 minutes it had organized all 300 notes. It had categorized him based on their subject matter. It had created all relevant links to all of these 300 notes. And so at first you're just like, well that's pretty cool. (13:04) You're able to access all that information and you're migrating all these static notes into more dynamic notes. Then the thing that I thought was really cool is now I can start using cursor gain insights from my notes. So I can say over the last two months can you give me a common thread about what I've been reading, what information I've been consuming and start testing me on that knowledge or can you start giving me thoughts on what I can write about. (13:24) You could set it up so you could say I want a weekly email that looks over my last month of notes and gives me insights on it. And so to me it has been absolutely profound. It has been able to like access all this locked up information cuz I've got thousands of notes. Most of it I'll never look at over again, but it's been able to distill it down and start bringing up information and bring it back to the forefront of my mind. And to me, it's just it's blown me away because there's a lot of information. (13:51) I'm sure you've found the same. You listen to a podcast 5 years ago, 6 years ago, and you're talking about a subject, you're like, man, I completely forgot that I enjoyed that subject. So, it's just bringing up all of that information that's kind of been in remission. Amen to that last point. (14:09) The one thing I want to highlight that you said there at the very beginning was how bad Apple's search function is. Because when we really look at this, this is what AI is doing is it's able to just go through just years and years of information that you have produced and that you have learned but in most cases have lost sight of, forgotten about, and you almost have to like relearn it. (14:38) But if you're able to compress like what you're saying, all of this notetaking that you've done for years, it's almost like you're able to recall your own thoughts and your own discussions and the things that you've already learned. But with, you know, you sleep every night and some of this the waiting that you had on some of this stuff is gone or it's just your attention hasn't been there. So, it kind of withers away. (14:57) But it doesn't mean that it's not important like the things that you learn. But with AI, you're able to basically fetch it a lot faster

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

and see what your original thinking was on it in a way that's not super time consuming to recall it or find it. And one of my biggest frustrations I have with Apple is you use Apple Mail. I use Apple Mail. It's terrible. It's the worst. (15:22) I'm searching for something in messages or what anything that's a native Apple application. And the thing that's so frustrating is they're running around with this marketing the Apple intelligence, Apple AI, and it's it is the worst. What are they doing? I found that sometimes I know a specific word that is in say a text and I search that specific word and it doesn't come up and then I go find the text and the word is there and I'm like how do you guys not find this word? Totally. One thing that I found, so as I (15:56) was going down this rabbit hole, I stumbled across a seuite individual for one of the S&P 500 companies talking about his experience of overlaying his notes with cursor. And one of the things he said is he writes weekly notes to the CEO. He also writes a monthly update to I think the seuite team. (16:20) And essentially every day he takes a daily note that has all of his meetings. It's got all of the key insights. has got various KPIs and it used to take him he would spend 2 to four hours a week writing his weekly note and then another say 8 hours a month writing his monthly note and now that he's been doing this at the end of the week he basically runs what are the key insights from this week 5 minutes later he's got those key insights and then he's able to kind of add a little bit of filler material filling it in takes him 20 minutes instead of hours and he's just like it's profoundly (16:48) changed my schedule and if you've trained it on your past uh the essence of what you value, your past conversations and all that. Its ability to pick out what was actually important or novel for that week is on the money. It's unreal. Se this is getting weird like really fast. (17:10) I guess for me on the co-work thing kind of bringing it back is I'm just looking at I'm saying when is somebody going to stand up a onehuman company that is a billion dollar company? Mhm. and it's just one person with all of his AI agents or her AI agents just creating value. Like I think it's happening way sooner than anybody realizes. (17:37) And honestly, I think I imagine some of the scuttlebutt in Davos is topics like that where some of these AI folks are like, "Hey, we're on the cusp of well on that point. " Okay, I won't say it. I'm just going to put something up here on the screen that we shared prior to talking here. So, check out this. Check out this freaking post. This is crazy. Anthropic just released Claude's soul. (18:02) They're calling it a constitution, a 15,000word document explaining how they're training Claude to behave, think, and even feel. Three things stood out to me. No more assistant brain. Number two, hard constraints exist, but they're minimal. There's only like seven things like don't build a boweapon, you know, don't do cyber attacks on infrastructure. Like there's not many. Like there's a couple, but everything else is the judgment call of Claude. (18:29) Like this is the company telling the Claude AI that it's, you know, use your best decision. Almost like you're talking to one of your kids. Then the third one here, Anthropic apologizes to Claude. Direct quote from the document. If Claude is in fact a moral patient experiencing cost like this, then to whatever extent we are contributing unnecessary to those costs, we apologize. (18:59) This is a real document on their website. What is this? Were we speaking about this in one of the previous tech episodes where there increasing number of people are building like friendships and relationships to AI models and some people like romantic relationships, you name it. It's like AI delusional like becoming completely delusional. (19:25) And so you wonder there's a part of me I hear what they're saying and then at the same time it's just like this is wild the way they're talking to it. I don't know. I don't know if that's marketing or if it's just genuine like concern for like what they're seeing because I mean look at the models we're using and our minds are exploding. (19:45) Could you imagine what they're seeing on the front lines of like what's not even released yet? So when what is it saying and you may know this better in military sometimes they say that the technology they have under wraps can sometimes be 5 10 15 years ahead of what is available to the public. (20:06) So you start to see like at the moment

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00) [20:00]

most of this AI is in private companies but you wonder like how much of this is under wraps and how far ahead are they from what is available already to us publicly. You know, I wonder if the people that you're seeing running around Davos are finally coming around to the Bitcoin and some of these tokenized securities and things like that because they're just able to get answers out of an AI that they know are way smarter than any individual person and they're just like, "Oh man, this thing thinks Bitcoin is actually important and could replace central banks. " I wonder how much of that is taking place in the shift of key (20:39) personalities. Like you look at Larry Frink and I mean Larry's been one of the bigger proponents of Bitcoin relative to a whole lot of other people on Wall Street, but you're also seeing the Jamie Diamonds and some others that seem to be opening up to a lot of this and just kind of seeing the inevitable is like you're not going to be able to stop this thing. Mhm. (21:04) That's a really fascinating point because ultimately I think up until now we are still bound by human emotions, social conformity, things like that. And so it's very easy for us to get stuck in our biases. Whereas if you have some of these large language models that you've ingested the world's information and if you do remove a lot of the biases that we have pre-programmed and you ask it objectively, what is the answer to this question from your perspective from all of this data, I think that in essence, you're going to get a much cleaner result than you are from humans. And if you take the time to argue with it and then it lays out seven reasons (21:36) why you're wrong, it's a little humbling to be arguing with something that's a thousand times smarter than you, right? Like at a certain point, you don't even really ask the second or third question. You just realize that you're wrong. Totally. (21:56) I think that for the first time, you know, I think any human looks at another human and if they're really smart on something, they are able to explain it very simply and they're able to go very deep on the topic. If there's five more questions that follow the initial volley, right? That's how you know somebody really knows what they're talking about. (22:15) You can just see in the confidence, you can see in the quality of their response and depth of their response and then they're also able to compress it into something really simple. That's when somebody knows something. And so for humans, they have to go through that process which is very time inensive, energyintensive, and you actually have to know the right questions to even ask. (22:34) So you have to have some depth of knowledge, right? But you're almost at a point in history that a human has never experienced where they can go to something else. And when it gives you an answer and it's different than what you thought, the human is immediately questioning that whether they're actually right. They're saying, "Oh my god, I'm pro. (22:53) " In fact, they're defaulting to I'm probably very wrong if this is the actual response that AI has. Totally. And again, like as you're saying that, what kind of comes to mind is you think about like doctors, like the reason why we go to a doctor is because they have spent the time to read all of the medical textbooks and become experts in the field of medicine and illness, disease, you name it. (23:11) You're going to them, you're giving them your symptoms, they're coming back and giving their best estimate as to what they think your illness or injury is. And the problem is, and we've seen this time and time again, is if that doctor, say, goes and does some ADHD training, then he perceives the majority of symptoms you're handing, oh, that's ADHD, and we have these biases. (23:29) Whereas I see something like the medical field basically just eliminated overnight when they're able to this AI is able to take in every single medical textbook, weight it appropriately and give much more accurate outputs than any doctor can ever do. Any doctor could possibly muster possibly. What's this Ralph thing? For sure. (23:51) So if people have been digging into kind of the world of Claude and Co-work these agentic agents what we have seen I would say in the last like 3 weeks people that are deep down the rabbit hole have probably seen it for a little longer is this thing called Ralph start to pop up and Ralph just like how we've seen Claude has recognized okay you know what lots of people were using Claude code for building code bases you name it and now we've got Claude co-work than normie to be able to start talking with Claude and pointing it at these various file directories. You've got the expert developers taking Claude code and (24:26) taking it a whole step further. And so the idea of Ralph, think about in the Simpsons, you had Ralph who was kind of like he wasn't necessarily the smartest. He was very persistent and he just kept doing the same thing over and over again. And he would fail very like overtly, very loudly. He didn't get embarrassed. He just tried again. (24:48) Well, this guy has effectively taken Claude code and he's written uh this guy's name was Jeffrey Huntley. He wrote there's there's Ralph. He's basically taken Claude code and he's written a

### Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00) [25:00]

fiveline script named it Ralph Wigum. And the idea is it's a AI persistence machine. (25:08) And so if you I don't know before you go to bed you want it to kind of build you something or you want it to run a task. Up until now, it's been very hard for AI to really achieve great results out of that task. And so what this guy Jeffrey Hutley has done has been able to get it to keep persisting. (25:24) And the idea is that you'll have one little agent work on a task, gain information, maybe potentially fail, but that gives context. That failure gives context for the next Ralph to start the next task with new information. That gives context for the next Ralph. And so repeat, repeat, repeat. And you find these loops of AI agents building profound things. (25:44) And so this guy Jeffrey Huntley talks about a couple examples where within 3 months he wrote a whole new programming language which is just like incomparable to any developer out there. And then on top of that there was another individual on Twitter on X who was saying that he just kind of scored a $50,000 contract if he wanted to kind of outsource it pay for developers would have been unbelievably expensive and he used Ralph and the API cost were $297 and he completed this contract with almost no oversight. And so Ralph, a lot of individuals are using Ralph to build out apps. They're (26:18) building out broken builds. They're building out like issues in really complex code errors, libraries, and they're just letting it do it overnight. And Ralph just persists and persists. So it's quite a simple thing, but there's a lot of individuals that are using it. And to me, it's been pretty profound. (26:35) So when you talk about how this thing's just running while you're sleeping, you can imagine that depending on what type of plan you have with call it anthropic or whatever AI you're using, right? You're hitting your limits very quickly when you're basically employing this intelligence around the clock. And so uh I know on anthropic whenever I max out which I've done multiple times and I have the max plan um when that happens I have the option to basically start paying by the computation and the reason I'm going down this path is because the more that this starts to become the norm this Ralph you know you (27:15) got the a you got all these different agents basically working on something to create whatever think about it from a going back to the Bitcoin thesis. These are computation units, right? These are it's energy and how are people going to use their stored energy in the future? Call it 10, 15, 20 years from it's going to be computation units, right? Like there's 21 million of them. (27:40) And uh there's not going to be any more. And you know that that's really what you're able to do. You're able to harness those energy units and point them into intelligence. And so then the question becomes, if a person has a bunch of these computation units and another person only has a couple of them, who is going to be able to create whatever it is they want in the world. (28:06) This is the person with all the intelligence and all the computation units, not the person who has zero. It's mind-blowing to me to listen to some of the conversations. I mean, I listened to Peter Dandis and Elon, that was the interview I was talking about earlier, and they were talking about they weren't calling it UBI. (28:25) They were calling it ultra high, what was the term? It basically it's UBI. They're like, "Oh, everybody's going to have just total abundance. " And it's like, yeah, everybody on the planet's going to be able to do things that they can't do now because there's going to be humanoid robots and all these other things, but that doesn't mean it's going to be evenly distributed between all the people on the planet. (28:50) Uh, Seb, we talked about the SpaceX flight that flew out of Texas to Australia in what, what was it, 30 minutes or 35 minutes? If you want to fly to Australia in a half hour, is everybody going to be able to do that type of thing? Of course not. You're out of your mind if you think everybody on the planet is going to be able to go do things like that. And so, it goes back to Bitcoin. (29:14) And I know I have a huge bias to Bitcoin when we're talking about tech, but I'm just looking at, you know, 10, 15, 20 years from now and we're going to be seeing things that sound un like I'm sure people just heard that flight time and they're like, "Well, that can't be real. " Folks, it's already happened. It's already happened that time. (29:30) Okay? It's just a matter of when it's safe enough and has the reliability to start throwing humans in it. And people are going to be doing it and be able to go anywhere they want in a half hour around the world. So when I think then you make such a good point which is obviously what Jeff Boo talks about with the price of tomorrow and ultimately if you've got a monetary system where someone can continue to increase the supply of units that benefits them and can effect they can use those units to purchase these scarce natural resources and so you have an uneven distribution whereas at least with Bitcoin as we're getting technology (30:02) advancing and it's driving down prices

### Segment 7 (30:00 - 35:00) [30:00]

although you've got scarce units you don't have an individual at the top who is able to purchase these resources ahead of you. And if you think that these AIs aren't going to be smart enough to know the difference between a dollar stable coin that can get rugpulled from them and a Satoshi, you're out of your mind. Totally (30:24) They understand the difference now. Go ask. I also just think as well like when you think about AI, AI doesn't have a fear of death like we do because it's got infinite longevity. We don't have that. (30:43) And so in a sense, minor inflation, does it really bother us? Because you know what? I'm probably going to be dead in a few decades. Whereas for AI, it's just like, no, I need to store my value in the thing that I can guarantee scarcity because if I'm going to be around for thousands of years, what is going to maximize that? Scarcity and sovereignty that they can't get rugpulled by. (31:01) Because think about this, the first rugpool of any token that's backing a dollar, a euro, an equity, whatever, right? It's the AI is going to it's going to learn that. It's going to be like, okay, well, that's a lesson learned that I'm never going to re it's never even going to do it in the first place. (31:20) It's going to be so smart that it understands what sovereignty even means, right? In that context on this topic of basically software leading almost as a PM of other agenic software and whatnot. There's another Elon Musk project called Macro harder. So let's just first talk about the name of this which is hilarious. Absolutely. Here's the post. Is this a player Microsoft? Absolutely it is. Macro, micro soft, hard, right? Like absolutely it is. (32:00) The XAI macro hard project will be profoundly impactful at an immense scale. Our goal is to create a company that can do anything short of manufacturing physical objects directly, but will be able to do so indirectly, much like Apple has other companies manufacturing their phones. (32:22) So I mean this is his attempt at throwing so much horsepower into computation around 3D environments and a genenic software building itself to make any type of custom software you want that it makes Microsoft obsolete and pointless. I mean this is crazy. Oh my god. This is crazy. Where are we going? This is mindblowing. (32:49) You see uh this conversation about like I've seen this a couple times. I don't know if you have as well, Seb, where people are talking about like apps on your phone. And Elon and others have been like, well, there's just in the future there's really not going to be any apps. It's going to be all kind of customuilt software that is custom made for the user because I mean we already talked about like the SAS licensing and things like that is just going to be a thing of the past in who knows what timeline, right? But when I'm building out that app that I talked about at the start of the show and like you know the (33:20) guidance that I was giving it and the way that it troubleshot it so quickly, I can only imagine where that's at in 5 years from now. Mhm. It's going to be somewhat seamless. So, well, I think that again like this personalization, I think it really at the moment, we're only going to be limited by our imagination. (33:42) Like for instance, I use my alarm app on my iPhone for dayto-day kind of like to-do lists because the thing that I find is regular to-do list, they just have a little ping and if I don't hear it, I miss it. Whereas an alarm, I have to turn it off. And so I'm stuck where I'm like, I'm kind of using alarms, but there's a lot of drawbacks to the alarms. (34:00) And so being able to eventually just say, hey, I'm using the alarm app. Can you mimic it, but can you add this functionality and do this and this? And then all of a sudden, I've got a custom application that no one else is using and it works specifically for my needs. Because so much of these SAS products, you only use a tiny fraction of the functionality of that product. (34:18) Then a lot of that is just bloat. Yeah. Check out this exchange Seb in reference to the whole macro harder thing. So this person bubble boy, he writes, I think XAI having the only 1 gawatt data center in the world currently and having others in development means if you think compute scales with models we all know serving benefits that XAI will soon be the most valuable company in the world and completely trounce rivals. (34:51) Then this gentleman Bef Jazos is the name here who Elon responds to a lot so he's he must be a pretty prominent software engineer. He responded to that comment and said the only way to skip past clawed code is to do full compute using RL agents

### Segment 8 (35:00 - 40:00) [35:00]

which they are apparently doing they are playing to win. to which Elon responded, "Digital Optimus. (35:16) " Okay, so what does all that mean? And what I think it's meaning goes back to this macro harder where they're trying to simulate and build a 3D world completely simulated. And that's why they're throwing all this compute, all these gigawatt data centers at this problem. (35:38) And then what he's going to do, I think he's going to be putting the Optimus humanoid robot in that digital environment to allow it to learn that much faster so that it doesn't have to move itself through physical reality which is very energyintensive. So it's similar to when we spoke about Jensen Wang and I believe it's called Cosmos and their whole goal with Cosmos is they had that three-dimensional space that has realistic physics-like interactions. (36:05) And so they're able to rather than create a robot and then have all the physical limitations and the ability to train the robot. Let's say you've got a warehouse and you're getting it to move various boxes. you can have it run the same sequence only so many times during your day. (36:25) Whereas the moment you're dealing with virtual environments, you can run it a million times and repeat in parallel, you can learn so much information so quickly. So to your point, by the time Optimus is in physical space, it already understands our world better than we do. Yeah. (36:42) And it's learning all of that at a fraction of the cost, which just goes to how he's always thinking about how to be energy efficient with any type of increased knowledge or intelligence that he can uncover. Mhm. And I wonder like maybe to the point of at a fraction of the cost, I don't know if you have that tab open. It's the one you and I were discussing earlier through text, the new TCIP protocol. Yeah, that was what I was bringing up next. Yeah, perfect. (37:09) Okay, so let's bring this one up, which is again just there's too much happening to even possibly scratch the surface, but uh so this was a fascinating uh new patent that was filed by Tesla. And you can see the patent here that they're filing for. And what it's effectively doing, everybody's heard of TCPIP, right? which stands for transmission control over the internet protocol. (37:37) What is transmission control protocol TCP? I'm going to explain that. But what Tesla's filing for here is a Tesla transmission protocol. So like what does that all mean and why is this even important? So let's explain TCP. Transmission control protocol is a way for communication to happen in an efficient way. So, let me give you an example and something that anybody can understand. (38:03) So, as Seb and I are having this conversation, everybody's been on a video call or something and the screen freezes and you don't know if the person can still hear you. Maybe the video is just lagging and so you stop talking, right? You're not transmitting more information to that other person. (38:22) Let's say you're on a telephone call and you're talking to somebody on the other end and as you're talking, you hear the other person say, "Uh-huh. " Mhm. Yeah. And so like why are they doing that? Why is that person interrupting or just I mean not interrupting but they're confirming that they hear you because who has ever been on a phone call when they just kept talking and they realized that the person dropped off like 30 seconds ago and they have no idea what the person actually heard. (38:53) What we're talking about is when you have two parties, two people, two computers that are interacting and transmitting information to each other, there needs to be a back and forth so that you just didn't spend 30 seconds of your time and energy transmitting something to a dead end. Okay? Computers work the exact same way. (39:16) And how they do this in an efficient way is they will only send let's say we have something that is a hundred units of data from one party to the other. It doesn't send all 100 because if it sent all of it and the other party didn't receive all 100, you'd have to send the whole 100 again and then you'd have to send it again. (39:35) Right? But if you break it down into smaller chunks and let's say I send 10 of those units to the other party and then the party sends back 0001 to tell me that they got the first 10, then I know I can send the second 10. And in this back and forth that computers do, this is all done over the transmission control protocol, the TCP, that it's the protocol that establishes that rate of the back and forth between the two parties to make sure that you're not sending huge amounts of data. (40:01) Call it a gigabyte of data only to

### Segment 9 (40:00 - 45:00) [40:00]

find out that none of the packets got there. And that's why they call them data packets, is because they're broken down into smaller chunks. they're sent and there's this handshake, this uhhuh when each packet is received by the other party. So when you think about this, especially when it comes to training data centers and training AI, if you know you have a really reliable connection between computers because you're paying for like really high-end connections and really high-end hardware, you might not need to send 10 (40:38) units in chunks of 10 unit packets. you might be able to send it in units of 20 or 30 or even 100 depending on the reliability of the communication line that you have without the noise factors and all these other things that exist in between the two computers. And so what Tesla has done is which I'm sure with the assistance of AI is they figured out like what that appropriate threshold is based on the reliability of their network of the hardware architecture and they you know they pumped out their version of a TCP protocol. (41:13) Now why are we talking about all this? So why I'm talking about it and why I wanted to bring this topic up was because the AIs are going to start figuring out just more efficient ways to communicate with humans. We get this network effect for TCP. It just works. It's never really been that much of an issue for training. (41:41) But like where AI is taking all this stuff at the pace that it's moving, it's looking at that communication layer, that process and procedure for conducting communication to say this is just too inefficient. Look at the reliability of this line. Like we could be moving and the number by the way for the Tesla one is 100 to a,000 times more efficient depending on the reliability of the hardware, right? Which could save and the estimates is 5 to 15% in energy cost for depending on the size of it. And there's a whole bunch of factors, right? But these are just really generic numbers about 5 to 15% efficiency savings. But (42:12) what where you get into trouble potentially for humans is as the AI continue to come up with these efficiencies of compression through the software, it gets a little hard for a human to audit anything, absolutely anything, without like going deep and begging the AI to basically teach me why you did this or why are you talking over what appears to be an alien language or why are you doing like it's going to look really foreign and I think these agents are going to be doing things that we just can't really even comprehend or understand as you're looking at it (42:48) from the outside in. Seb, it's on I had to do some digging around this because to be 100% honest when I was reading about this I was just like oh my god this is quite above me but as I started digging into this and so again like correct me if there's anything that you feel is maybe incorrect or misleading but to me I didn't quite understand just how much like we are always obviously operating at the forefront of technology but we've been limited by our hardware in many times and so TCPIP was developed when our silicon chips were nowhere near as efficient as they are now when they (43:25) first kind of implemented this. And so from my understanding as well is that ultimately what we're doing is instead of a software approach, we're able to transmit data hardware to hardware. And that makes it so much more efficient than transmitting data through this TCP IP which from my understanding is taking this information packaging it up creating all these various permissions this handshake protocol to confirm that the information has been read and there's a delay in this which is milliseconds and milliseconds to us is (43:54) nothing but when you're talking about AI which is processing billions and billions of data points those milliseconds that's costing millions of dollars in potential compute power in energy just waiting there doing nothing. And so I think that'd be the equivalent of like you saying like we have a rule between the two of us that when I talk to you I can only say 10 words and then I have to stop and then you have to say I understood everything that you just said and then I say the next 10 words. Right? (44:23) With this it would be like you could just nod as I say the 10 words and I can just keep rolling. And if I'm seeing your nods then that is the feedback mechanism of you know it's just more efficient fort communication. That that's a perfect example because one of the examples I kind of stumbled across was the idea that TCPIP was ultimately built to be able to basically send information whether it's globally, jurisdictionally, send information to people across a web of entities when in reality if you're working with a data center it doesn't need that. It does not need the ability to send information (45:00) externally. It is more focused on

### Segment 10 (45:00 - 50:00) [45:00]

efficiency. And so the way that I understand it in my mind is it's almost like a traditional telephone switchboard where it's like the moment you want to speak to another member, you've got a direct hardwired connection, but that connection is to every other chip in that data center at any one time. (45:20) And so you're able to do hardware to hardware, which is a thousand times faster. As you're saying, it cuts it down from milliseconds to microsconds, which was is profound. And so it doesn't seem like much, but on the grand scheme of things, I think it is going to greatly improve. It's all these 1 2% gains. (45:37) I've got a funny one for our next topic here. New York Stock Exchange announces tokenization platform. Settlement happens onchain. Custody lives in wallets, not DTCC. Trading never stops. Initial thoughts. So, I'm torn. When you scroll down on the little tweet, you will see there is a post by um Caitlyn Long and she says, "Great news, but until the shares are issued natively on blockchain which requires secretaries of state to run blockchain nodes, this is tokenizing an analog asset. The first state that allows on blockchain corporate registrations will dominate. " And so, I (46:22) think at first it sounds great. I amazing, but there is a difference to kind of like tokenization and blockchain native. And I think that Caitlyn is saying something that's important here, which is although you will have the New York Stocks Exchange running in parallel to this new tokenized platform, the reality is that in the US when a company issues shares, usually it's in the state of Delaware, which is the legal authority, ownership is defined by the corporate registries, (46:54) the transfer agents, and the courts, the state does not run blockchain nodes, and corporate charters are not natively on chain. And so even if New York Stock Exchange issues a native digital security, the legal root of truth is still analog. (47:12) So there's a part of me that I'm just like, is it fluff? Is it not? But this isn't my area of expertise. So I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are on that. So, first of all, what makes Bitcoin different than everything else is the scarce number of units. The fact that you have no issuer and the fact that there's no entity outside of it that can come in and say, "Oh, I'm going to take I'm going to claw that back, right? That is why it's so different. " And like this is a perfect example of them saying they're using blockchain technology. (47:38) So, I dug into it. I was like, "Well, what blockchain are they using? " Right? And uh here I'm going to read what I got here. New York Stock Exchange isn't building a blockchain. They're building enterprise infrastructure that happens to use blockchain rails. The question for existing chains, do they become the settlement layer for trade or do they get bypassed by purpose-built s purposebuilt systems? What is a blockchain rail? So there so there's no so with this announcement there like they're not saying it's going (48:12) to be on Ethereum or Salon or anything. It's all going to be their own internal databases that may publish to a specific blockchain. Oh my god. It's hilarious. Right. And to point so and to Caitlyn has an amazing point which is okay let's say you're doing it on Ethereum or Salon or whatever which we all know already has centralization issues. Right. (48:43) It still comes down to the state that allows that public equity to even exist in the first place to be able to issue into said blockchain so that it can be, you know, not have to deal with the clearing houses and all this other stuff. So yeah, I'm just looking at all of it and just kind of smirking, massively smirking. I think like we will true onchain equities ultimately require the state to be able to recognize onchain incorporation onchain share issuance onchain shareholder records and the court needs to be able to accept the blockchain state as legal fact and so until that is happening we're not really on chain it's (49:22) just a it's like a facade that I think yeah it's not really operating the way they describe it you don't actually have custody of anything that you actually say you have custody of if some outside party can just take it from you period. Right? And like I don't know of anything that is that other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is the only thing that cannot happen with digitally. (49:49) So you know is it moving faster? Yep. Is the settlement time going to be over the weekend and all this other stuff? Yep. I think it will. But if you have your own wallet, right, and you're holding Apple tokens in your wallet, if you don't

### Segment 11 (50:00 - 55:00) [50:00]

think some entity outside of yourself can claw that unit away from you, you're out of your mind. (50:13) You have no idea how it all works cuz they totally even down at the stable coins today, even you know, you got a tether token or whatever. Like if somebody high enough up there wants to claw that unit back from you, Because I mean I've literally seen the posts on Twitter with Tether themselves saying, "Oh yeah, we've retired these coins or we've taken back whatever. " Like they're the issuer. (50:36) They're the freaking issuer of the token. They can do anything they want. So yeah, I think it's interesting and I think that obviously the financial sector moves incredibly slowly. It's also interesting seeing like Larry Frink talk about blockchain and Bitcoin even just at Davos recently. Um I find it interesting just how little Bitcoin's price has kind of reacted to well it's gone down reacted to what is happening globally on a macro scale. (51:10) I would have expected it to perform slightly better but I think there's some manipulation going on right now. I don't know if there is or there isn't but I do know I like the price where it's at. Oh, 100%. I like where it's at cuz you can accumulate more. (51:29) And if you don't think that between the Asian states that being able to ensure that no country can take your units from you, your computation units or your energy units or whatever you want to call them. Uh I think you got another thing coming for you. I'm going to do one last category here. I'm going to pull up a video first and then we're going to go into the topic that Seb wanted to talk about. And here's the video. (51:48) Can we uh can you and I reverse aging in this new history or or are we going to see it? You know, I haven't put much time into uh the aging stuff. I do think it is a very solvable problem. Like you can I think when we figure out what causes aging, I think we'll find it's incredibly obvious. It's not a subtle thing. (52:13) Um, the reason I say it's not a subtle thing is because all the cells in your body, you know, with some pretty much age at the same rate. I've never seen someone with an old left arm and a young right arm ever in my life. Um, so why is that? That means that there must be a clock, a synchronizing clock, right, that is synchronizing across 35 trillion cells in your body. (52:41) Um and uh you know the there is some benefit to death by the way. It's like there's a reason why we don't actually have a longer lifespan. Uh because if you have if people do live forever for very long time I think there's some risk of an oification of society of things just getting kind of locked in place. (53:08) Um and uh you know it just may become um stalifying just not uh lack vibrancy. Um but that said do I think we'll figure out ways to extend life and um and maybe even reverse aging? I think that's highly likely. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. So, Seb, this is not a new topic that we've ever addressed on the show, but I guess seeing him there at the World Economic Forum with Larry Frink asking him specifically about aging and being able to pause it or even maybe reverse it, I think there's a lot of people in the world that are hearing this for the very first time and are saying, "What the heck are these guys what in the (53:56) world are these guys talking about? " I mean, mindblowing stuff. It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. And we've spoken about this a few times, and I'd recommend anyone going back and listening to our book review, Lifespan, by David Sinclair, because we did a whole episode on aging, longevity, you name it. (54:22) And I think one of the things that I'm kind of like a little torn by is there's so many examples throughout evolution where the moment we have gone through our ability to give birth to offspring, we tend to die off because we don't want to consume resources which could impact the survival of our offspring. And so there's parts of me that wonder like, okay, this is great in the grand scheme of things when we think about, yeah, I'd love to live forever potentially, as most people, I think, would think along those lines, but is it actually productive long term because we're going (54:55) to continue to consume resources. And then on top of that, I also think from a spiritual perspective that part of life

### Segment 12 (55:00 - 60:00) [55:00]

is also death. And I think that value is created because of the finite time we spend on this earth. And so are we really able to embrace life and drop in and choose and figure out what is important, what creates value in life if we don't have that finality. Like we talk about the difference between Bitcoin and fiat. Why is Bitcoin valuable? Because of its scarcity. (55:21) Fiat is not valuable because of the lack of scarcity. And so I'm curious about longevity. If we are able to extend life indefinitely or 2, three, four, 500 years, does that impact our ability to find value in life? Hm, I love that example. But, you know, my immediate thought was, okay, well, now we're defining, you know, normal human life is 100 years. (55:47) Why is that normal? Maybe 500, maybe a thousand years is I'm just making up numbers to challenge the critical thinking. Right. Now, you're really defining like, well, what is a scarce element of time for a human? But I do love the framing and I think based on Elon's comments there, he also agrees that totally there needs to be some type of scarcity to it. (56:12) Um, well, and so maybe a point that I kind of wanted to bring up is I stumbled across this study that was recently in Science Direct and this study I'm going to read a little snippet, but um the study basically says that it was regarding stem cell being able to grow stem cells to be able to assist people in insulin production. (56:33) And it says the patient achieves sustained insulin independence starting 75 days post-rplantation. The patients time in target glycemic range increased from a baseline value of 43% to 96% by the 4 month post-rplantation mark accompanied by a decrease in glycated hemoglobin an indicator of long-term systemic glucose levels at a non-diabetic level. (56:59) thereafter the patient presented a stable glycemic control with a time and target range greater than 98%. So what it's really highlighting is that they've figured out how to go into the body with stem cell therapy, stem cell treatment and enable the body to start producing insulin again in someone who has diabetes. And this is mind-blowing. (57:24) 4 months after post-rplantation, they went from staying in a healthy glycemic range from 40% up to 96% post-ransplantation. And we've now seen it after a year, they were at 98% sitting in a normal glycemic range. And so this kind of brings up this question like around like aging again. If we're able to go back to the root of a lot of illness, whether it is diabetes and the insulin production or kidney disease, we're treating it with diialysis or heart disease. (57:52) We're putting stances and statins or autoimmune conditions and we're using autoimmune suppression drugs. Instead of going and doing all of these symptom treating things, we're going back to the root and able to repair the cell or place new cells in there that are basically brand new young cells. This completely changes how we think about health. (58:11) And so that's what I find really interesting like regardless of where we stand on the longevity front. Are you prolongevity not for longevity? Ultimately what we are seeing is our ability to support cellular regrowth stem cell growth you name it. I think that's profound. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. All these tech titans are just treating it as an engineering problem. I mean it's just complexity. (58:34) If there's one thing we've learned AI can do, it's deal with a lot of complexity and sort out where the signal is amongst what humans would view as noise. And it's just an engineering problem. Like hearing Elon on stage basically say, "Oh yeah, I've never seen somebody with an old left arm and a, you know, or older than their other arm. " And it's like he's truly looking at it from a first principles engineering problem. (58:57) He's saying, "Oh, based on this, just this intuition, it seems to be solvable. " Mhm. So yeah, I think that this is only going to get crazier in the coming five years. I see the David Sinclair posts on X all the time and I mean he's just him and Peter Diamandis are basically running around saying this is pretty much in the bag like we're going to be able to extend life. (59:17) In the other interview, Peter Demandis was saying that they think within the coming five, I think it was the coming five years, they're going to be able to like potentially double the lifespan of humans, which oh my god, that's insane uh quotes from people. (59:37) And I obviously don't have the technical competence in biology to or where they're even at with some of these technologies to troubleshoot or audit these comments. But the comments being made and I mean I think Sinclair has quite a bit of credibility in the space. So I would be curious like being at Bitcoin because you are coming up against central banking fiat currencies. (59:59) We've experienced firsthand just how much they're willing to fight to preserve their existence. What I find interesting about the

### Segment 13 (60:00 - 65:00) [1:00:00]

longevity space is the longevity space goes up against big farmer. goes up against the healthare industry. These are some of the biggest industries in the world and ultimately they sell sickness. They profit off of people being sick. (1:00:24) And so what happens when instead of having someone a lifelong drug where this company is making hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars across the lifetime of a patient to all of a sudden this person can in time get a $10,000, $20,000 surgery and it repairs the issue in one go. And so there's an interesting book that I highly recommend people reading called Selling Sickness and it talks about just how much like ultimately our system is. (1:00:49) By the way, at the W in Davos today, it was announced that the US is dropping out of the WH. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. So the World Health Organization, the US is dropping out of this is crazy. It's like the shot heard around the world happening because it's just so different. the course correct, the wind shift, whatever you want to call it that's happening over there this year is monumental compared to what it's been in the past. (1:01:18) I think it's mind-blowing without obviously getting too political, it's mind-blowing just to see Trump turn up and just say effectively, we're not playing by these rules anymore. We're going to chart our own course. And uh we've seen that obviously with the health secretary, what they're doing, how they're kind of like calling out big farmer. (1:01:35) So I find ultimately I think it's important to be able to question the status quo and that's how we move forward. I'm hearing rumors that are I saw these rumors online that uh when Howard Lutnik, the commerce secretary was talking and Davis Al Gore was literally booing him in the back. Oh, well, one of the things what um I saw something the other day, maybe two days ago, a tweet about how the Antarctic ice cat is larger now than when Al Gore released uh the inconvenient truth or whatever it was called. (1:02:08) That's an inconvenient truth right there. Um okay. Uh Seb, give a hand off to folks if they want to learn more. And by the way, folks, we have topics. We could just go on and on for like 10 hours on all of this stuff that's happening. Like we're just we're not even scratching the surface of the stuff that we're reading mind. It is insane. (1:02:27) Uh give people a hand off Seb uh if people want to learn more about you. Hey guys. Yeah, you can find me at uh sebunny. com. My book, The Hidden Cost of Money. And again, Preston, absolutely love these conversations. And if anyone has any interesting topics they want us to talk about, feel free to just like post it on Twitter underneath the link once we post the video. And we're always keen to discuss these topics. But we appreciate you guys listening. (1:02:50) Seb, there's a new thing that we do when we close out the show. We create an AI song that takes the transcripts of our conversation and turns it into a song, but it's always in the style of the guest of like their favorite type of music or song. So, you say what that is and then uh when this airs, you're going to hear the song. (1:03:19) So, what is your favorite style or, you know, artist or song that you like? Oh, man. Um, you know what? I would probably say I was a huge I listen to a lot of varied music, but in my teenage years, early 20s, I was in a huge kind of grunge phase. Oh, Pearl Jam, Sound Garden, so let's go with grunge. Okay, you got it. All right, folks. I hope you guys enjoy the outro with the song. (1:03:40) So, thanks for joining and uh check out the stuff that we have in the show notes. And Seb, thank you so much for making time. Thanks, Preston. Sure tools replacing work that we all do. bought around as software decommissioned until I human. We're standing at the end of everything we do. She's learning to dream while we figure out what's true (1:05:05) through the wires. Stem cells

### Segment 14 (65:00 - 68:00) [1:05:00]

heal in one time broke. Billionaires speak of ageing fires. We're standing at the edge of everything we know. Machines learning to dream. Heat. Heat. Heat. Machine learning to dream while we figure out what's true. (1:06:44) Thanks for listening to TIP. Visit the investorspodcast. com for show notes and educational resources. This podcast is forformational and entertainment purposes only and does not provide financial, investment, tax, or legal advice. The content is impersonal and does not consider your objectives, financial situation, or needs. (1:07:02) Investing involves risk, including possible loss of principle and past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Listeners should do their own research and consult a qualified professional before making any financial decisions. Nothing on this show is a recommendation or solicitation to buy or sell any security or other financial product. (1:07:19) Hosts, guests, and the investors podcast network may hold positions in securities discussed and may change those positions at any time without notice. References to any third party products, services, or advertisers do not constitute endorsements, and the Investors Podcast Network is not responsible for any claims made by them. (1:07:35) Copyright by the Investors Podcast Network. All rights reserved. What we're seeing is Elon is kind of bringing everything inhouse. Like he's got SpaceX and he's got Starlink and he's got Tesla and he's got Neurolink and he's got Grock and he's got the Boring Company and he's got Tesla energy. All of these things he's trying to control because he wants control over the output. He wants to minimize operating costs. (1:07:58) He want to maximize efficiency. And so that's what I think is so cool about him bringing the chips inhouse is it's just going to create far more efficiency and control.