# What WORKS in 2025?

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** Kevin Hopp Cold Calling Coach
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w
- **Дата:** 16.05.2025
- **Длительность:** 51:54
- **Просмотры:** 17

## Описание

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## Содержание

### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w) Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00)

Should we talk a little bit about who we are and why we are why do we have any authority? Why are we talking about this? Why don't we just have someone else? Why don't we pull someone else up from the audience? Yeah. Who are we? Yeah, definitely. Do you want to go first, Kevin? Yeah, sure. So, my name's Kevin Hawk. Uh at my heart and core and soul, I'm an outbound sales geek. I'm a sales development geek. I get way into this stuff. I've been in sales development, very specifically in consulting, training, services for about 10 years. Uh, recently launched my own AI services firm called Smartbound. ai. We're a clay agency that brings Clay to companies. Got questions about that, reach out to me. You know, Clay's the next big thing in GTM. We'll talk a little bit about that. We'll talk about other tools, talk about lots of good stuff. But uh at my heart and soul, a sales development consultant, staying on the cutting edge of what's working with outbound sales, net new pipeline, talking to strangers, all that good stuff. That's me. What about you, Mlonbeck? Love it. Uh hey everyone, my name is Mavlon, founder at Salesfinity. We are uh called Outbound Tool, helping sales teams have more conversations on the phone. So we run millions of calls every month and working with hundreds of SDR teams and that's why I am on the show hoping to share what's working and what's not based on what I'm learning working with all the people and seeing all the data behind the scenes what's actually happening behind the cold calls and super excited to chat with you Kevin and the misses there's a lot going on in on LinkedIn these days. A new guru here and there popping up every day. LinkedIn is dead. Cold email is dead. L cold calling is dead. So, might as well turn LinkedIn into a graveyard now. So, super excited to chat. Let's kick it off. How shall we go about this? So what I what I'm thinking about Volbeck, let's talk a little bit about some of let's like define some of the biggest fads that gurus are pushing. I think that's a really good place to start. And when we start talking about this, everyone tuned in is going to say, "Oh yeah, no, I saw that person. " Oh yeah. Uhhuh. Because when people suggest things like cold calling or cold email is dead, like outbound's dead. Here's what to do instead. It's like the sexiest pitch ever, right? Because nobody wants to actually do the hard work. Everyone wants to say, "Oh, all I'm going to do is buy this platform or get this thing and then this works. " So, let's talk like categorically about like two or three of the big ones. I think the first one that we should talk about and I want your take on in terms of like how you've seen it implemented is signal based outbound, right? This idea that wait, I know we don't have to do cold outbound. We're just going to call people who are ready to buy signals. We need signals. What What's your take on signal based outbound? Have you seen like what are people doing when they think they're implementing signal based outbound? Sure. Um, honestly, signals are really good if used correctly. For example, if someone is hiring for an SDR role, probably they might also buy some tool. Makes sense. But how signals are being pitched right now is like uh it's like a red pill like in a ma matrix like hey take this red pill and all your worries will disappear. You will not have to do cold emailing. stress anybody. You will not have to pick up the phone and call angry people and be swear at. You will only call this red hot leads who are ready to buy which is absolutely like crazy. There's no such thing as like oh I'm ready to buy that's why I'm being called type of scenarios. There's no such thing. Signals sure great might help you but that's not the whole picture of uh that's being pitched right now. So what what I don't understand is when I talk to sales leaders and they say things like oh we have you know let's go ahead and name you know some of the big ones like six sense we have six cents we we've got bombora intent through zoom info we've we know who to call Kevin I try to still have the conversation I say hey like even though you have all this signal that someone's in the market for what you do then pick up the phone and call them and the first thing they should say is, "Oh my god, I was just trying to buy this. I was just how did you know

### [5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=300s) Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00)

that I wanted to buy this? " If you know any salesperson who's watching this right now, in the comments, tell me if you've ever one time, just even one time, had that exact experience because I've never had it. And I've consulted with over 80 different SAS businesses in the last 10 years. It's a lot. And a lot of them when I come to them they say well we've been using six cents for the last six months and you know the results are so and I say that's good not a bad thing to your point Avon signals are a good indicator a good way to build a list that is still at its heart and soul unless it's an inbound lead saying I would like to talk to you and I want a demo or I want to talk to an expert. Unless it's that, it's cold. So, you need to take cold actions against these people. And that's like what people try to get away from. So, I'm on um there's signal-based outbound. There's another one that's getting really like really popular and these tools are popping up that use AI to cross reference people's networks. Go to network. What's your take on Goto Network? What does that really mean in case people are like not familiar? Uh you're laughing already. Yeah, I saw the there is like a very famous uh I don't want to mention who that is but he was Eric he was down from l LinkedIn recently but basically this guy coming to Twitter and saying all USDR should stop cold calling called emailing outbound the go to network is the same. Okay. Uh imagine me for example let's say I am like 20 year old guy let's say I'm not 20 much older than that 20 year old guy just about to graduate looking for my first job no one is paying 300k for like a SDR role so of course they're going to get uh firsttime job seekers a new graduates someone who has never done entrylevel job. So, entrylevel job guy comes in and then he has a quarter 15 meetings per month SQL let's say and then the manager says you cannot use phone you can you not use email only thing you can do is go to your network I mean where is he gonna get all those people beg his mom beg his dad to buy their software no of course so which is a disaster to be honest. Go to network works. Even I go to network because every time I ask my friends, I feel like I owe them something like it's like begging pretty much to be honest. Please buy my stuff. Can you introduce me to that? Versus I just pick up the phone. I don't have to rely on anybody. I have my uh my destiny on my hands. I just pick up call just random people to see if they'd be interested to buy my stuff. That simple. You don't have to beg people to make money. You can just take initiative. Pick up the phone, send send emails, make phone calls, send the DMs, just do something. You cannot survive. Yeah. Exactly. And if you look into all the big companies that are like 100 million, 200 billion dollar AR, all of them have massive outbound teams. I doubt any of those CEOs when they were 20 something, they had any network at all. For example, when I started Salesfinity, I had zero network, no SDR friends, no SDR managers. How would I sell? How would I make money if I relied on this? network, man. Outbound's dead. You just got to go to LinkedIn and network with people on LinkedIn. That's my other favorite. Uh I think the next one we should talk about is social selling. But the what I have to say about go to network is there are certain scenarios where it's brilliant and the idea the fundamental idea of if I do have a large network which is kind of like with me and growing my company smartpound, right? I I've got almost 20,000 followers on LinkedIn. When I sit down and talk to my co-founder, Devin, and he mentioned like we should start building cold lists. I'm like, well, hold on. Let's go talk to everyone I know first, right? Which will take forever. It'll take a long time for us to talk to everyone I know know, meaning first connected on LinkedIn. I think it's a really good idea, right? It's not uh it's not like a crazy terrible idea, but to your point, Mavlon, it is not

### [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=600s) Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00)

scalable. And this is where like that guru, I know exactly who you're talking about, who comes out and he's like an adviser to all these companies, a VP and all this stuff, and he's got the biggest network in the world, right? He literally complains that he hits the follower limit. You can only have 70,000 direct connections on LinkedIn. If you're him, go to network and dancer. If you are kind of me even 20,000 followers, go to network is a really good answer. That doesn't scale for sales development, right? What you and I specialize in is not showing up with some gimmick or trick to a company and saying, "If you meet this certain criteria and you have this and you and by the way, you got a great personal brand and you got all this stuff, then we could just call the people you know, it's great. " That's not what we do. We can we have processes and technology you we can take to any company in the world and say this is how you can go have net new conversations and generate top offunnel leads. It works every time in every market. Now there are varying degrees that everything works but in general cold outbound will never die for that reason. So um let's talk about the next one right which I think is social selling and like the social selling content like influencer wave where everyone is saying that SDRs need to post on LinkedIn all the time and that is what's going to lead to like outbound funnel conversions. What's your take on social selling? Yeah, it honestly it works for some people, but it doesn't work for some people. Some people absolutely hate being on camera. Some people cannot just text. Like I have a friend, he never texts me, just calls me, hey, I don't like texting. Like, keep it for yourself. Yeah, some people it all it's all about your personal personality. Do you like being on camera all the time? Do you like writing? Can you think clearly and write put them into writing? All that kind of stuff. And honestly, again, expecting young guys who's never work anywhere come and crush social selling is also like not sustainable. Plus, there are many different things. For example, uh if you're working in a bigger company, there are content regulations. How are they going to uh follow that? Maybe if they break it. Another thing is territory. Okay, how do you ensure only people in California like your posts? That's another thing because what if you are making all this content but from your territory, no one is signing up, no one is coming in inbound to you. Maybe it's coming to the company. Maybe company's indirectly benefiting from your content. But if it's not on Salesforce under your name, you get fired. So that's another thing you can do. Exactly. Yeah. I mean for smaller startups it might work because like overall things are getting better but if you are like in an established like 10 15 SDR orgs uh companies like series B C plus then it's you got to take it seriously because no one pays you because you are posting great content and content takes some time as well and as you all we all know one is impatient I'm sure like when you do a consulting If months one you didn't deliver a meeting or something, you are fired. Like Kevin, this is not working. Thank you so much for your services. So you have to deliver something if you're not putting points on the board. You're pretty much gone the next day. So content takes time, forever. It takes forever. Like some people have been posting for like two years, still not getting any traction. So I think you just need to play for your strengths like are you good on the phone go do phone are you good at writing emails do that but you shouldn't be boxed into this is the only way to generate revenue or pipeline 2025 is actually really bad advice. So the other thing that I think is important to say when we're talking about social selling like I think you and I both agree you should be on LinkedIn like if you are anyone who does B2B sales LinkedIn is the Facebook and it's becoming more and more the Facebook of social media for professionals. You should be on LinkedIn. Everybody should be on LinkedIn because sales is such a personal thing. It really is like I I know from selling a lot of consulting deals and watching good sellers, it's people do business with people at

### [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=900s) Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00)

the end of the day. Now AI, which is the next thing we're going to talk about, like the next wave of like automation and AI and all this is going to feain human interaction, make it feel like it's human to human, but at the end of the day, I want to look you in the eyes and say, "All right, man. I'm paying $50,000 for your software. I trust that it's going to do what you say it's going to do. " And it's a personal thing. LinkedIn helps bridge that, right? It puts a face to the name. When you cold call someone out of the blue, you could be a telemarketer. You know who never adds people on LinkedIn? Telemarketers. Telemarketers calling from India or Pakistan or Costa Rica, wherever, right? They do not add you on LinkedIn face to the name and make it a personal thing. That will increase your conversion rate. And I tell every team I ever coach, you got to be on LinkedIn. If you're not pumping numbers on LinkedIn, connecting with people, having a personal brand, having a company brand that is reputable on LinkedIn, then you're just simply not going to be optimizing what you could be doing. So, it's part of it. It's part of it, but I think like the the three big myths that we're talking about here that we're trying to like get people to see are are just myths. is like the idea that signal selling is the way to go and like you don't need to do cold outbound or um uh intent uh signalbased selling and then we talked about what else we talk about I just totally blanked signalbased selling uh go network and then social selling right these are the three things that like everyone is so happy to talk about and happy to launch these platforms that cross reference your network and things like that which is good. But the problem with all three of these is that they don't work every time for every team. There are very few cases where it works really well for a team. And when one of those happens, they go post about on LinkedIn, everyone gets all jealous and they go, "Oh my god, we need the new Goto Network platform because look at this. " Doesn't work for everybody. But there are techniques that work for everybody. Now, before we get into like the last portion of what we should talk about here, which is what does work, let's have a little bit of a conversation on artificial intelligence. Okay. Sure, everyone. There there's a big world of AI, right? And you and I were just talking about this company called Lovable. If you haven't heard of Lovable, go look it up. Crazy numbers, insane growth because they make building any kind of software product really, really easy. like talking to an AI and you know that that's changing the way things are going. The conversation you and I should have, Matt Vonbeck, is what are you seeing in AI as it relates to sales development? Because you and I are sales development guys. There's a big world out there of all these things we could do, but in as it relates to sales development, what are some of the things you're seeing right now with AI that people should be aware of? Good question. So AI is pretty much coming into many areas of sales development. Some are nice to have, some are really cool stuff and one of them is like for list building aspects. So you can be super targeted using AI and find local and go through checks. For example, uh before uh for us, let's say when we are picking the accounts, when we are prospecting in the past, what we would do is like go to every single company and check if they actually have SDRs. Like you can select companies um 200 employee companies, but not all 200 employee companies actually have STRs. If they don't have STI, there's no point reaching out to them in the first place. So that would take a lot of time, right? Going to every company, checking their LinkedIn, do they even have SPIs? If they don't have SPIs, then we are like wasting our efforts on that. That's really cool use case. Another thing is process improvements. for example, for I don't want to get too detailed uh on this followup on different parts of this because we're going to be talking about this later on. Uh but in general helping you process improvement, when to follow up, how to follow a context from previous calls so you can sound a lot more relevant. Those are process improvements where AI is really helpful. I definitely agree. I think the thing that, you know, when I talk to I have some of these conversations with like senior sales leaders and they say things to me when we're in the very beginning of stages. Well, Kevin, you know, we're a AI first company over here. Every one of our reps has a chat GPT license. They I pay for it. We

### [20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=1200s) Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00)

have we have AI figured out. And I say, "That's that's great. That's awesome. " You know, that's cool. You know, like it's really good to be able to go to track EBT and say, "Tell me everything about this company. " And drop in a little thing and it'll give you a summary about a company. That's nice. It's nice. Now, where AI is like changing the game for sales development and go to market very specifically is in the nature that these tools are plugging in LLMs like chat GBT and Claude and Gemini. You plug in that power into these tools natively, then what you get all of a sudden is AI at scale, right? At every company in your CRM gets smarter, every contact enriched, every contact gets researched. And like the big difference like if if you're someone listening to this right now, you should and you're asking yourself, you say, "Well, Kevin, like we could build lead list in Zoom info, and all these other things. " What is so different about what is AI doing that these other tools didn't do? Well, AI at its core is reasoning and AI is what I like to call a POV, right? POV. There is a point of view inside of your tools. Now, that's crazy. Computers don't reason. Computers don't think through scenarios. Computers can't say this is slightly better than that and here's a reason. It's always been quantitative metric driven meaning numbers binary code ones and zeros. AI unleashes the ability for your tools now to have a point of view on your market on the calls you make on the emails you send on the people you're reaching out to on the status of your pipeline. AI is bringing a point of view which I think is crazy right and we start to think about it right like not to make it you know too scary or add too many hot takes what is knowledge work what is white collar knowledge work in America it is people taking in information making a decision or a judgment on that information and then writing it down and sending it to someone else like that's like 80 90% of jobs, right? It's like 90% of jobs is taking in information, thinking about it a little bit, and then spitting it back out in another direction. That's what AI is designed to do. AI does that better, faster, cheaper. Way cheaper, by the way. AI does that better than any person ever can. So you really got to start thinking about in this whole sphere of AI and sales and AI and tech and AI and you know work what is important in terms of a skill set and what's going to still be here in 5 years in 10 years and that's where I think we should like take the next part of our conversation around what does work. Do you have any final closing notes on AI before we transition to like what works in 25? You put it uh really well. You put it really well. I agree with everything you said. We're coming to the juiciest part. What is working if nothing is working? So, what works? Kevin, I love my question. I bought the social selling course. I bought the email template that said that the guy generated 15 million in one month. What does work? Well, the hidden secret is talking to strangers and following up with them. That's what works. And throwing your marker across the room. That's what works. Talking to strangers and following up. Talk to me a little bit about how sales helps with that or how your customers are looking at that exact process. And let's we can make it less about like what Smartbound does, what sales does, but like what's the process you're seeing that wins? Yeah. So let me briefly touch base on what's not working so we can have some context around what's working. So yes, traditionally a lot of teams are still using old generational tools and putting new generation tools on top of that. So a lot of teams still use uh large databases. There are plenty out there. They build the list over there. Then they all have a CRM. All those leads get in put into CRM. On top of that, they have a sales engagement tool, SCPs. So they add those contacts into sequencers. There's no AI yet. Maybe chat GPT like you said people who figure it out already have chat GPD accounts

### [25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=1500s) Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00)

where they can look up. I doubt if it's not systemic process just giving the tool to people is actually going to break that you got to build this systemic approach to actually doing things building the habits otherwise wow this is so cool the next day everyone forgets back to what they were doing which is find the leads adding those 25 leads to your sequence and then sequence creates you the tasks And then you call those tasks. Somebody picks up the phone call and you forget the research or anything is done. You go back to your habit which is fitting. We help companies like yourself do X Y and D. We're all said thank you so much. It could have been a really good account. great prospect but they replied to your message. They picked up your phone call and next step is they get removed from sequence. Okay, they get removed sequence. I mean 100% of the time you speak with people are not going to be book meetings with you. Some of them are going to be good fit not now. Meaning they have existing land or you need to wait for the renewal or they have for example timing issues, they're working on something else or they they have different priorities basically. Okay. Doesn't mean they should never be contacted again. But because how's the systems are set up, they get removed from sequence. So you don't call them again tomorrow and bother them. And guess what? Those leads go to that black hole. We call it graveyard of C, graveyard of leads. And wow, no one calls them people and nothing happens. And now a lot of people are getting tools like parallel dialers or power dialers to improve efficiency because people are in book meeting. They were doing 40 calls in the same process. Now they get a parallel dialer which people advertise as 10x uh results. So they're now going from 40 dials a day to 400 dials a day. And guess what? The problem gets even bigger. Are they going to book more meetings? 100%. They're meetings, but they're going to send a lot more leads to a black hole than they realize. And in 3 months, they're going to run out of new contacts. And guess what? They have to recycle the leads. They didn't follow up on time. They didn't do anything. And then just cold calling all over again. Kind of like you are in a like a rat race, spinning the wheel, spinning the wheel and stuck there. That's why a lot of SDRs are burning out. A lot of them dream of becoming an account executive. Why? Tomorrow is always harder than today. The day after tomorrow is harder than tomorrow. It gets harder harder. Kind of like a zero sum game. But it doesn't have to be. There could be a brighter side which I'm sure you are implementing for your customers. So love to learn how you are doing and the follow-up processes you are. Yeah. So, so let me summarize what you just said there. So, you're saying that the typical sales development team spends a ton of time, effort, and energy doing first touch cold outbound. Exactly. Search everything. Then they call and then prospect says, "Not now. " Then they then go, "What happens to all the research you've done? What millions you spend on intent data? just evaporates. Okay. So, I couldn't agree more in terms of what you're talking about here, right? So, there is this obsession with cold outbound, cold calling. And the metric that most teams measure a lot is dials, which is like I just need volume of outbound. Now, you can't get away from the fact that you do need a volume of outbound. Right now, there are companies like, you know, let's just I let's call it out, right? There's a company called Titan X that is really busy and loud on LinkedIn and their whole thing is you don't need volume, you just need to call the right people because what they do is they just call your list and they find out who picks up the phone because it does turn out that there is a habit and

### [30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=1800s) Segment 7 (30:00 - 35:00)

that habit comes from your mom and your dad and your grandma and your family. the way you were born and raised, you were taught to when the phone rings, you pick it up. Or you didn't. Or your dad was in Wall Street and he was like, "I never pick up the phone. " And when the phone would ring, he'd be like, "Honey, don't pick that up. " And you watch that growing up and you're like, "Oh crap. " And now that's kind of personal calls. It's like a it's a very deep psychological connection people have to their phones. And all Titan X or these other platforms do is they identify by calling them who picks up their phone. Like, oh, are you a guy who picks up his phone or are you not? Right? And if you're if you've ever made a cold call before on a list, you realize if you forget to take someone out of that list, if you like just upload as a CSV and you don't have any automation to take people out, you call that list two times in two days, you will get pretty much the same connects. You'll get very similar connects. Whoever picked up yesterday will I I'll bet 50% they will pick up again the next day because they are picker uppers. It is a habit that they have because it's how their mom and dad taught them how to behave. Crazy right now. It's not it's not God's gift to prospecting finding out who picked up the phone. Here is a graph. Let's let's turn to the board right here. Here's a graph that I show to explain to CRO's and VPs how sales development professionals should work a pipeline just like AEES, right? What Kevin pipeline? I need them I don't need them working on pipelines. I need them getting cold calls. I need them talking to our they need to go get more. I'm like ah I know but 90% of the people you talk to are not ready to buy right now. They're not like holy I can't believe you called me. like let's what send the PO just send it that's not how it works right we timing is a huge factor so let's look at this graph right what is this graph so this graph is going to be um number of uh dials and this is going to be time okay can everybody see we got number of dials and we got time so we're going to have brown be our cold calls and Here is how it should go. What's that? That means that in the beginning when you first start developing your pipeline, you got to make a lot of cold calls. Why? Because you don't have any pipeline. You have no one to follow up with. Like you start day one, you're that 20-year-old kid, right? One of my clients, we just had an SDR start, and he's like, "Wow, I feel like I'm at the bottom. " And I'm like, "You are. And you will be at the bottom if you don't fill up your pipeline. if you don't go have conversations. Right now, here's the magic one. You also start out at the very bottom of your pipeline with zero follow-ups. I'm gonna use a different color because I want to be visible here. What do we got? Here's this color. This is going to work. Is this going to work? Yeah, it'll work. All right. This is what we call follow-ups, which are so important, right, Mavon? You just talked about why they're important. So, what do we actually find? We find that over time you don't have any follow-ups. And then do you notice how these lines are parallel? That's because one is feeding the other. If you keep your cold calls consistent, like look, this is zero. This is $500 a day. But your cold calls should never get to zero. You can never stop cold calling or doing cold outreach. You can't stop doing the cold if you care about the follow-ups. And where do your meetings come from? They come from, right? We end up seeing more meetings on your follow-up than you do your cold. Shocking. Unbelievable. You're telling me, Kevin, I only cold call so that I could follow up? Yes, that's what I'm saying. You're not just cold calling to get meetings and be like, "Ah, the best pitch in the world. Oh my god, yeah, send the PO. " No, you're cold calling to go from zero to one. You do not know this person. If I asked you, hey, Mavlon, that your job today is to figure out why we aren't selling to Acme Corporation. Cold call them. Talk about the problems you solve. Ask them how they solve those problems in their business. Then turn around and report back to me, your VP. Hey, I just had a conversation with the guy at Acme who covers what we do. He mentioned they use this competitor. He's a little busy right now, but I sent him some resources. And guess what? I'm gonna follow the up. Boom. Do you want to be different? You want to know what works in 2025? This. That's exactly it. Like, it's super simple. You know, to back it

### [35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=2100s) Segment 8 (35:00 - 40:00)

up, I also uh brought some data in. Let me show that to you guys. So basically I also run a newsletter called cold calling benchmarks uh where I every week analyze billions of cold calls and bring in the data. So as you can see what's happening right now here is these are the data from cold calls. So specifically I analyzed 43,000 conversations. These are not dials. Those are not connects. Those are conversations. Conversation means anything over 60 seconds on salesfinity platform. 43,000 conversations. This is out of millions of dials. Wait, so this isn't theory? This isn't like Wait, this isn't theory? I thought you were going to like Don't you have a book talking about your your theory on this? I actually have a 99. 99 course which you can buy at the end of the webinar. What? Wait, wait. So, you're actually showing hard data. You're not just saying, "Hey, what's up? I make Tik Toks for a living and I'm a LinkedIn guru. Here's Keep dialing today, guys. " You're showing hard actual data from actual live conversations that reps have had 43,000 times. Yeah. So now look at the call dispositions. Number one most common disposition is there are no answers because these are all conversations over 60 seconds human life conversations. So number one is not interested. No. If someone stayed on the phone for 60 seconds plus and they said not interested, it's not that they're not interested otherwise they would not interested. Thank you. Hang up. But they stayed with you for 60 seconds. Most likely it's like not interested right now. Okay. But other if it was like don't call me again, I'm not interested. That would be a lot more quicker than 60 seconds. Number two is call back later. Someone is busy hiring or about to get into a taxi. They're not going to stay with you. 60 seconds they're going to say, "Yeah, call something we can consider. Let me talk to my boss or something like this. Call back later. " Yeah. 14. 4%. Okay. Wrong contact 10. 99%. Do not call again. 8. Yeah. Let's remove those. Send an email about 7. 41%. Bad number 5. 86%. Answered meeting said 5. 81%. Which means out of 100% of people that are speaking to you, about 6% of the time you're booking meetings. Of course, this varies repto. Some are outliers, some are average reps. But so moral of the story is if you remove all this bad number, wrong contacts, do not call me again. There's about 70% of your conversations that could be good fit, not now that requires followup. So now pipeline that's 70% of the calls you make are developing pipeline for you. Exactly. And now imagine what's happening behind the scenes on your SCP. All those leads are getting lost somewhere and no one is really actually uh actually following up. Someone said didn't answer. Some people might mistakenly um choose the wrong disposition. That's why it's there. Maybe it's that's why. So, let me show you another screen right now. Okay. So, this is my pipeline. Okay. Uh our pipeline basically. So on salesfinity platform what we normally do is we call people which is fine exactly like you described cold calls. Cold calls are very important. Every interaction starts cold. Every baby is born without friends then finds friends through interaction. So it's just like this you cannot find clients out of scenarios. They don't grow on the trees. You have to go get them. So here there is we have a pipeline. Okay, after we call all those people, this nurture AI automatically builds us pipeline. So now we have 569 contacts that we've spoken with that show some interest but didn't want to follow up, didn't want to go ahead with us and we know exactly why

### [40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=2400s) Segment 9 (40:00 - 45:00)

they haven't booked a meeting with us. For example, uh is it for timing competitor? So I have a dummy data here uh for this scenario and when I open it up it will show me exactly why they haven't booked what competitor are they using and what's their what's the problem they have with their existing solution how happy are they uh with their current solution and then automatic followup date when they're going to be ready now if I call this guy my interaction with him is not going to be a cold anymore. It's going to be John, we spoke with you three months ago. You were using um some dialogue and you weren't quite happy with their HubSpot integration. Curious how is that been going on for you? Yeah, still the same. Is it still the same? Something like this. Okay, I'm not called calling him any anymore. I'm not interacting. That's the definition of being strategic. You call, you start this call. Sure, do your intent data, do whatever you want to do. Sure, you're free to do that. But the conversation hasn't doesn't have to end on the first connect because you need second connect, third connect, first connect and time your outreach really well because prospects don't buy because you are telling all the magic words, all the intense signals you saw on some paid platform, they buy when they are ready to buy. Same way, for example, are you hungry right now, Kevin? Uh, kind of. Not going to lie, it's almost uh almost noon here. Okay, let's say you're not hungry. You just ate a burger. If I said, "Kevin, would you like some uh McDonald's? " Like, now thank you, man. I just all good. But uh after like eight hours, I call you again. Kevin, um there's fingerlicking good KFC right here. Would you like some? Sure, give me some. See like it's exact same way in in this world like sometimes when we call people they are already using a power dialer. We can help. We can do anything about that. But figure out who they are using, why they bought them, and what's their experience have been with them. And then call them back. What's their renewal date? And tell hey has it been living up to the expectations that you had in the beginning and then yeah, let me take a look in your platform and then it's a rip and replace right there. That's the only way. No, I I guarantee that this is a process that actually works. And so, you know what else we were just looking at there? That's your tight X list. That's a list of people. You know that this person this number when you call when this person picks up this number. That is like what these platforms like Titanex and others are selling is the concept of like we have the secret sauce. No, they just go through the process to figure out who picks up a what number, which is great. Which if you're at an organization of enough scale, uh you have enough reps, you could I could help you as a consultant go build this process in the Philippines. It's not hard. And then you can get 50 60 70% connect rates, too. But you leave out a lot of people, right? Like that's kind of like an issue. There's a really big issue, really big red flag with only calling people to pick up the phone because guess what? If you call consistently over two weeks, the first week you try to, you know, phone ready leads them or whatever, they're on vacation and then you say that they're a dead lead. Oh, they'll never pick up the phone. Call consistently over time, right? Calling consistently over time is really important. Joey Montano, my god. Hey, thanks for that, Joey Montana. Appreciate that shout out. Um, the other thing that uh we should talk about, right, is AI, right? So let's I want to talk, you know, shameless plug for kind of what my company does as well. So the concept of we want to use AI in sales development. There's a lot more questions than answers when it comes to how to do that. Very specifically, what Smartbound does is we solve how to use AI in your targeting, prospect research, and account research, right? Which is Clay. Clay, if you guys don't know about Clay, is probably the most powerful go to market platform in the world right now. And it is so for three main reasons. And the three main reasons that I think Clay is like the bees freaking knees when it comes to data because data is everything, right? If you're going to use a tool like Salesfinity, you need good data. By the way, if you're going to use any of these tools and you put crappy data into it, you know, Joe

### [45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=2700s) Segment 10 (45:00 - 50:00)

blow@xyz. com and the email bounces and the phone goes problem. You're not going to get there, right? The reason that clay is the bee's knees is three main reasons. Number one, it allows for like the democratization of access to data. Suddenly with one login and one price, we get access to 50 different databases. Well, I have Zoom info. Aren't I good to go? It's one database. Okay. Well, I have seamless. It's one database. Clay gives you access to 50 different databases. You can waterfall to your heart's content to try and get the right contact information for people, which is very disruptive in the way it's built. The second thing it does is literally infuse AI at any point in the journey so that you have intelligence, a point of view, an actual thought process, a decision-making criteria that is followed with opinions inside of your data. And what that allows you to do is take a nonlinear approach to how you build your lead list. It's something that really wasn't really possible before Clay. And the last piece and why it's really interesting and why if you're watching this today and you're like, "Shit, this sounds amazing. It natively integrates to like everything you already have. It's got like 50 60 different integrations. So it does all of this and plugs natively into your stuff so that you make every piece of data you put into your go to market systems like salesfinity better. It underlines your investment in your sales engagement, in your dialers, in your LinkedIn automation tools, whatever you're using. You got to have good data. context. And you should be stack ranking and prioritizing who you reach out to in the market based on what people are actually saying and talking about, right? That intent feeling, that intent vibe. But let's be very clear, nothing beats building a list, following the list, and following up. Following up, following up. It is the real key. Um, if you're watching here, uh, and you want a free clay table that will help you categorize accounts and find the right people inside of accounts, DM me. I'm giving that away. I'm sending you a link to the clay table and a YouTube video explaining exactly how to use it. So, that's a cool giveaway to thank people for tuning in today. Um, and free, absolutely free. Clay itself is not free. Uh, you can go if you've never signed up to Clay, I I'll give you my link, too. You can get 3,000 free credits for signing up. And then the table that I'm giving away is absolutely free. That's still guys, you got to get it. That's right. DM me. Um, Mavlon, how do we wrap this up? What final comments for you? What is working today? And what you know, what do the gurus say works and what what really works? Um to be honest a lot of things work like you said many things work a lot of the times for some people they don't work all I want to leave this if you if I want to like share one nugget from this call is um the first connect is usually the opening it's not the end if you couldn't book a meeting on the first connect it doesn't mean you should never speak with them again. If someone's wasn't in a good mood or something, doesn't mean you shouldn't follow up ever again. It just means you just need to categorize those people. Some people say bucketing, categorization, anything you want to call it. Once you call people, put them into buckets. Don't miss out on those because you are creating your proprietary intent data. any other intent data is vastly available to anyone. So software categories are so crowded they're competing for exact same buyers. So thousands of companies they all have to exact same zoom info data to all those clay all those many different tools everyone has tools to exact same tools. So that's good. But the conversations, the insights you are gathering from this calls are proprietary to you. Just stack them. Don't lose them. Don't throw them away. Don't become the victim of your sales engagement tools rules. Make sure every single conversation, after every single conversation, the prospects are put into the shelves. So when the right time comes you text them back again say the words they said during the last call build familiarity further the conversation it's not about I call the prospect they picked up booked meeting it's called the person it wasn't they picked up wasn't the right time called them again it's

### [50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdYoV7jM01w&t=3000s) Segment 11 (50:00 - 51:00)

about furthering the conversation so build pipeline for your pipeline pretty Make a list. Call the list. And then if you keep calling the list, just like you brush your teeth, you call every single day. You don't just choose which day to brush your teeth because you want your teeth to look beautiful every day. You want them to look good on the weekends. a Monday, Tuesday. You want your pipeline to look good, you have to continue to cold call. The cool part about this, if you follow what we're talking about and you follow up, you're actually going to start getting a lot more meetings, faster connects, have a better time. But you got to get organized about the way you follow up. So, thanks for sharing that, Mavlon. This is great, man. This is really good. Uh, I already got two DMs, people asking for the Clay the Clay giveaway here. I'm going to drop my SalesFinity affiliate link in there, too. Sign up for Salesfinity. You guys still do like sign up and get like two or three dials. Is that still a thing? Uh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Uh, anyone comes through you, we give them free trial. Nice. Awesome. All right. In that case, DM me. I'll get you a free link to Salesfinity, the clay table that allows you to organize things in a YouTube video discussing exactly how to use it. But at the end of the day, you should be using a tool like Salesfinity. Clay. Uh there are other ways to do it, but we actually do know what really does work for our customers and we're not making this stuff up. So awesome, Avlon. Thanks for the time, man. This was really fun. Thank you, Kevin. And thanks guys for tuning in. And if you need to nail your ICP, build the best list you can build a process on cold calling culture, bounce is smart bounce. Let's go. Love it. All right.

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*Источник: https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/46025*