# Most Celebrities Shill Crypto, Ben Mckenzie Investigates it | VICE Culture Club Ep10

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** VICE
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93zScSbjTs
- **Дата:** 05.05.2026
- **Длительность:** 21:16
- **Просмотры:** 27,214
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/52424

## Описание

This is the highlights of our conversation with Ben Mckenzie. For the full interview become a VICE Member.  While most celebrities were shilling for crypto, Ben Mckenzie was investigating it. Mckenzie is most known for his roles in the OC, Southland, and Gotham, but most don’t know he studied economics at the University of Virginia.   He has gone back to his college roots to take on some of crypto's sorest subjects.  In his new movie “Everyone is Lying to You for Money” Mckenize interviews now jailed crypto CEOs Sam Bankman-Fried and Alex Mashinsky.  He also goes to El Salvador to check out Nayib Bukele’s attempt to become the first country to use Bitcoin as an official currency.   We talk about all the dark corners of Mckenzie’s investigations took him to, all the people that have been hurt by crypto, the identity of bitcoins founder, the history of currency, and we play “Steal That NFT”.

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## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

He was like, "Oh, we'll build a Bitcoin city in the east part of the country. There's these volcanoes um in eastern El Salvador, well, all over the country, but particularly in eastern El Salvador. And the pitch was like, "We're going to mine geothermal energy from the volcano and use that to mine Bitcoin and then use the Bitcoin to build this like golden city. " Like, of course, they had this like fancy um mock city thing made up. It was just like — Little rendering. We love a rendering, right? — Yeah. Dictators love renderings. Absolutely, yeah. Very Gaddafi-esque. Lots of gold. What's up? This is Vice Culture Club. I'm your host Jackson Garrett. I'm your guide to what's going on at Vice and hopefully what's going on in the world this week. Got a really great interview coming up with Ben McKenzie. He's best known for his acting roles on The O. C., Gotham, Southland, but he's become one of the world's biggest crypto critics. He has testified before the Senate Banking Committee. He's written a book called Easy Money. And he's got a documentary coming out called Everybody's Lying to You for Money. We had a really interesting conversation about NFTs, shitcoins, the guy behind who created Bitcoin, and how it's usually just used for a crime. So, if you're interested in any of that kind of stuff, stick around. Here's the interview. The first day I turned the camera on was South by Southwest in 2022 and I'm sitting on the floor of the convention center and I see this booth for this company called Celsius, which is just a dodgy company that was being sued in Texas by the Texas state regulator, but hadn't been like adjudicated yet. And I look over and there's like this CEO like in this open green room and I'm like, so I was like, you know, it. I got to mic up, go over there, and shoot my shot. And so, it's in the movie like um it was wild, you know? It was like he was such a used car salesman. His name is Alex Mashinsky. He's in jail now um cuz he was running a Ponzi scheme. And um that was our first day of filming. So, I was like, "Well, yeah, I should probably keep going. " I mean, you used your celebrity a bit to like be able to get into these rooms. Like, in that scene, it feels like they're like, "Oh, Ben McKenzie, we know him from The O. C. and different movies and TV. " Like, yeah, let's just talk to him cuz all the other celebrities we've talked to want to grift with us. Every other celebrity is like, "Oh, yeah, just let me put my name on it and you will sell this, sell that, or whatever. " And you did the exact opposite. Yeah, no. You could have made money, Ben. Why don't you I know, man. That's what people are going to ask you home. They say, "Ben, why didn't you just make a bunch of money like everybody else? " — so much more money, you know, buying into the whole thing and using especially as I started to be outspoken. If I had like switched in the middle and been like, "Well, but this cryptocurrency is really great. " Um I just couldn't do it, you know, I couldn't do it morally or ethically. Uh a bunch of other Yahoos got in on the act. I'm all in. Are you? You know what? I'm in. Oh, I'm in, bro. Now, here's the thing. Celebrities have always shilled products ever since there have been celebrities. Even my wife has done it. There's nothing wrong with that. But this isn't a sandwich or skin cream. This was a financial product. Crypto will really be the future and — If you aren't a licensed financial advisor, you're not supposed to offer people financial advice. It's literally illegal. — the new wave. It's what everybody's doing. As an actor, I'm a professional bullshitter. Yeah, I don't think so. And my gut told me the guys selling people on crypto were full of it. The cryptocurrency, you can trade for conventional money. Oh, so it's a hustle. Yeah, it's a hustle. Why didn't you just say that, man? Don't spoil it for everybody. It's a hustle. Do the math. Up against a multi-trillion dollar industry shilled by every celebrity on the planet, I did what any other actor would do in my position. I hired a film crew. This is Giorgio. He's going to be filming me. Is he going to film? He's going to film, yeah. He's going to make a movie. You want to be in a movie? Yes. It doesn't pay to uh be an expert for the Senate in the Banking Committee, but it does pay to do Super Bowl commercials and you really missed out there. — Yeah, one of the funniest, you know, so many trolls on the internet, obviously, and definitely on social media, but one of the funniest criticisms I got was I'm a sellout and that like I'd switched from television acting to writing books and making documentaries to where like make the big payday. I was like, man, that's either completely disingenuous or you are the dumbest I have ever met because nobody makes I'm crazy like crazy, man, but like documentary filmmaking and writing books over TV acting, come on, man. Um yeah. — career of documentaries and journalism and calling out corruption. That does so well for everybody. — That's where you really make the big bucks. Yeah, no, but it was fun, man. I mean, I'm honestly, I'm privileged to have been able to do it. Like obviously, I was you know, because that's not that lucrative, I was like trading on the fact that I had made money in TV and my wife is very gracious, as you see in the film, very like um patient with this

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

bizarre uh obsession that I've had. Um and uh and it's been kind of wonderful, actually. I mean, you know, I met all these different people that I would never have met, traveled all these places like El Salvador that I never would have gone to. And um and it's opened up my conception of the world and my like belief in myself and you know, it's been a pretty awesome experience, actually. As dark as the world of crypto is, the experience for me is actually been kind of great. I'm a sucker for, you know, any kind of uh media mashed with uh finance. I started in accounting at Vice, actually. — No way, really? — Yeah, I did a show called Offshore, so you kind of got into the crypto side. I was in the offshore banking side, made a whole show around it and I was watching your doc and saw all your books in your office. I took a picture of my books. I might have to show them to you later cuz I've done the same thing where like I just kept digging and digging. I was like people need to know more about this and trying to make something financial interesting to people can be tough. People think it's such a numbers oh scary, you know, like you made it fun, you know. — good. Economics is so much about the so like the social interaction like you're talking about. You've got a cast of characters in this one. You got the same Bankman-Fried as well. So you have two people in your doc that have been arrested. Sam Bankman-Fried Thank you for taking the time to speak with us. — So, I had a conversation with um Alex Mashinsky. Celsius. Yeah. Yep. I asked him how much real money is in crypto. And he said 10 to 15%. He said the rest is speculation. — Thank you. So, as of today, I think the number of dollars in crypto have not changed massively between then and now. One when perhaps they've lessened. They certainly have not increased. Um I don't think they've decreased massively though, which I think lines up with some of your thought that like a lot of this was leverage leaving this system. — of the problem if they haven't left is that people can't get their money out. Imagine this is a regular regulated bank. — Oh, yeah. That's — This would be a big problem. — This does not seem like the decentralized democratized future of money that we were promised. I think we've seen all the major carnage um in the crypto industry already. I think that things are on a bit of a recovery path from here. But to be honest Sam, like it doesn't feel like it's creating a lot of good for people. It feels like it's a net negative. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah, two people that are in jail now and Sam was a you know, on top of the world when I met him. Like he was one of the 100 wealthiest people in the world supposedly and he was being feted all over the place. The mainstream press was kissing his ass and he had just done a uh a conference in the Bahamas, which is where FTX was headquartered out of uh and like Bill Clinton was there and Tony Blair was there and I mean, you know, he's top of the world and I still I think I maybe now know why, but I was always surprised that he was willing to be interviewed. Cuz like Jacob and I had already sold the book, and it was like in our Twitter profiles, writing a book about crypto and fraud. Mhm. And here's a guy who — And you had the mug. I thought that made him nervous. He was so nervous. I don't know if that was how he was all the time, but you had a mug What did the mug say on there? Do you remember? — Uh fraud investigator, investigating frauds like riding a bike, except the bike's on fire, you're on fire, everything's on fire. Just like a mug that I bought on Etsy, you know, like the week prior. Cuz I didn't know exactly what he was doing, but I definitely suspected stuff, and I figured like A, that'd be funny, and B, it might throw him a little bit, and sure enough, yeah. There's a funny moment, we cut it out of the phone, it was just too long, but we like sit down, and then some people were being loud in the hallway where we were where I was interviewing him, I needed to go talk to them, so I leave frame, and he does like a it was almost like a quadruple take or something over the mug. Like he just can't like not look at it. Um anyway, set the tone for the interview, which was both hilarious and bizarre, you know. Is that his real name, Bankman? Yeah. I feel like that's too on the nose, — I know. right? If you wrote that in a script, the guy named Bankman is the fraudster crypto guy. Yes. And his father is a professor of law at Stanford who specializes in tax avoidance or oversee us. That's my thing. They was a lot of talk about his parents, too, right? When he went to jail, that they were like helping him avoid some of that stuff. People were talking about if they need to go to jail, too, or not, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, his dad uh was helping him set up the corporate structures of these things. They I think they were both on the payroll. There was like a very bizarre exchange where I think it's the dad is emailing his son on behalf of his mother saying she needs more money, like she needs to be paid more. Hm. Which is like, that's an interesting family dynamic. I mean, always grabbed me when I was hearing about FTX that it was set up in the Bahamas. Yes. That was my go-to of like, okay, there's no good reason if you're not being shady but you want to set up in the Bahamas. No, it was all they were trying to say it was like it was just a good working environment. We've got them all on the island together. I was like, all right, sure, sure. Like you're the only one that wanted to do that, I guess. The most like physical format of crypto or like place you can go would be El

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

Salvador, right? Tell me about going to El Salvador, what did you find there? Why is it such a big deal in crypto? Yeah, so in 2021 uh the president of El Salvador, Nayib Bukele, announced that Bitcoin would be legal tender in El Salvador. The only country in the world that would actually be trying to use Bitcoin as real money. El Salvador dollarized years ago and so the actual currency of El Salvador is dollars and it's cash. It's it's a very poor country, so the average Salvadoran only makes like $400 a month. And the foundation of the economy is remittances. It's the two to three million people of El Salvador and descent that live in the United States sending money home to their relatives and it's a quarter of the economy. So the pitch from Bukele, which you know, sounded kind of like an interesting idea is like we'll build a system so people can use crypto and they'll be able to send money instantaneously home uh home um without the fees of MoneyGram or Western Union or whatever. Um you know, and sometimes those fees are pretty high. And so Bukele rolled out this system and it just was a debacle. Like everybody got like some small amount of Bitcoin like 10 or 20 bucks or something of Bitcoin for free. He like famously bought Bitcoin while sitting on the toilet, right? — Oh yeah, he would tweet about reserve bank money. — Yeah, yeah. And that was supposed to go to the people, I guess. — I guess. I mean the document yeah, he said he was using big like government funds to buy Bitcoin, but there's very little track record of like there's very little paperwork on that. So, it's very hard to kind of like understand what's really going on here. Um one of the biggest crypto companies is probably the biggest crypto company has a sort of a foundation there. It's this company Tether that Adam Back is has a really deep relationship with the uh — Well, here is name again. Yeah, there he is. Adam Back. Uh so, anyway, so I got on to El Salvador because I'm like, all right, well, let's see let's see if this experiment's working. They they've already tried the remittance system and it's not working, but like maybe on the streets of El Salvador, I don't know. Cuz that's definitely what they were trying to sell you online. Like if you were on Twitter, they were there's lots of videos about that. So, I go to the biggest market in San Salvador, that's the capital city, and there's a funny sequence in the film of me just going around and asking people like, you know, um can I use Bitcoin? And um they look at me like I'm the stupid gringo that I appear to be or maybe am. Um no, dude, we don't take Bitcoin. We need dollars. We need cash. Uh nobody would take it. Um but even worse than that is the other the second part of Bukele's pitch was cuz the first thing was kind of a flop, but he was like, oh, we'll build a Bitcoin city in the east part of the country. There's these volcanoes um in eastern El Salvador, well, all over the country, but particularly in eastern El Salvador, and the pitch was like, we're going to mine geothermal energy from the volcano and use that to mine Bitcoin and use the Bitcoin to build this like golden city. Like of course, they had this like fancy um mock city thing made up. It was just like — a rendering. We love a rendering, right? Dictators love renderings. — Absolutely, yeah. Very Gaddafi-esque. Lots of gold. Um and uh and so, I was like, okay, well, then let's go over there. So, we we drove from San Salvador a few hours east to like really middle of nowhere uh El Salvador. Like it's way on the east. There's nothing going on. There's a fishing village there. And um and basically, long story short, like spoiler alert, the Bitcoin City doesn't exist, has will never exist. But they said they wanted to build an airport to service this fictitious city, and um and they displaced this whole community. Like I was hanging out with this fisherman named Wilfredo. And he's just like, "What are What is going on? Like you're kicking me off my land to build an airport? Like To build like a fictional city. Yeah. — Yeah. Uh which is also weird because since El Salvador has an international airport, it's only 100 miles away. So why does a country the size of New Jersey need another airport? I Who knows about that, but whatever. It was kind of like I needed to show it in the film cuz it To your point earlier, like it's so hard to find like a so much of crypto exists just online and it's kind of ephemeral. It's like, "How do you make that real? How do you express the real ramifications of an embrace of crypto? " Well, going to El Salvador and seeing Wilfredo and his community displaced over this you know, marketing plan, basically. It's just a marketing stunt. Um it was really kind of sad. Um but it armed me. Like then I came back and like I was interviewing Sam Bankman-Fried just a few months later. And I went and asked him, like, "What does crypto do? " His first answer was remittances. Mhm. I was like, "Bullshit. Right. I just went there. Um nobody's using it. Um so if a country built on remittances is not using it, the only country in the world trying to use crypto as real money, then that's not true. And he was, you know, "Well, it doesn't work now, but it'll work in the future," which is like a With his crypto. What's that? Maybe

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

his crypto? — crypto. Yeah, Solana will work because he owns a lot of it. I'm like, "Okay, dude. Whatever. " Did you try to meet Bukele? Or is that a Bukele? Bukele. Yeah, I tried. He did not uh He likes to refer to himself as the Batman or has. And I was Jim Gordon on a trip to Gotham. And so I tweeted at him from inside the country, like, "Hey, man, want to meet up. " No response. So does that help with access-wise? We talked about already a little bit, but like have you like had some where they're just like, well, my wife likes the OC. Yeah, sure, I'll come talk to you. I've got We've done the coins now. So, now time for NFTs. I have a little game for NFTs. So, I want to see which one you want here. I've gone ahead and stolen some NFTs off the internet. They don't like you to do that. Yeah, I printed them off, you know, so they're very They don't know People don't know you can do that. They're on the internet, you know, black and white everything. So, what I want to do is I got them here. So, you can have that for now. Oh, man. And the game's going to be you get to choose one of the other. Don't look at all of them yet, just the top ones here. So, that one's called Ether Rock. Ether Rock, yeah. And we'll we'll get on the screen or we'll edit them in or whatever, but Ether Rock and it's worth a certain amount. The next one is Lindsay Lohan's furry NFT. So, you're going to choose between the two of those which one you want. At the end of the game you get to keep one of your NFTs cuz I did, you know, like I said, I stole them off the internet. These are physical versions. I'm going with the rock. You're Ether Rock. You sure you don't like the Lindsay Lohan furry? I I feel furry is a very it's breaking my brain. It's it's it's uh Go ahead and crumple it up then. We're going to destroy the NFT. That's a destroyed NFT, everybody. That's how you get rid of them. That's it. They're done. Now we got the Ether Rock. I don't even know if I'm saying that right, but it's just a rock. I love it. Wow, no, sir, it's a unique digital signifier that the blah blah blockchain blah blah. Thank you. Yes. This is priceless art, man. So, you got that one. Your next one on there. We got a couple more to choose from. You said two and I We're playing them all the way through here. All right. You get to keep the last one. The next one is called a ton of coke. It is a picture of cocaine. An NFT of cocaine or a block of cocaine. So, pick I know you like your marijuana. — I like my marijuana. I'm not much of a coke guy and my kids might eventually will see this. So, I'm going to pass on the coke. — Okay, crumple destroy it. That's destroying the NFT of coke here. All right, next one. Ether Rock or Melania NFT. Melania Trump sold some NFTs. That's her artist's rendering of her in a hat. — Oh, Melania goes down. No Melania. All right, I think your last one you're choosing between Ether Rock and Bored Ape Yacht Club 8817. A lot of celebrities like yourself have bought in. Jimmy Fallon, Justin Bieber. All right, Bored Ape down. And now let's see what you ended up with. I am so proud of this. And guess how much that sold for? 1. 3 million dollars. Good job everybody. He did it. He got a successful one. — What a gift. Thank you so much. — furry NFT. Do you want to hear your furry ghost? — Yeah, oh tell me. Thousand dollars. So, you're good. Only a thousand for Lindsay Lohan. — Wait, did I pick the most Okay, don't do a spoiler. Ton of coke. Two thousand dollars. You're still doing great. 1. 3 million there. Melania NFT sold in Solana. 170,000 dollars. So, so far you still got the most valuable one. And the last one was the Bored Ape Yacht Club 8817. 3. 4 million. So, you lost out of 2 million dollars. Now, pretty sure none of these are worth any money at this point. — That's the other point. But they at one point someone thought they were worth 3. 4 million at some point before I stole it. That was worth 1. 3 million. — Yep. Now, it's a piece of paper. I love it. I mean, cuz that's what an NFT is a uh is a receipt for a link to a JPEG. It's like oh a record that you at some point bought the link to the two-dimensional thing that you could just right click and save. So, congratulations for you know, the people that did it. You know, but behind all the stupidity and the speculation there was one of the reasons why these things were sold. It was a fake trading, of course, and then it was also um money laundering because, you know, in the art world money laundering is ubiquitous and cryptos makes it even easier. So, there's a lot of money in that. — up the two. Two of the biggest money laundering combinations here. — Exactly. — And don't ever say the Vice Culture Club doesn't give you things. You know, 1. 3 million if you play your cards right on there. — That's right. I will now I need to hype it on social media cuz I need to sell it again. That's the real problem. — We need to get a token going. Me and you token on here and we'll go in the forest and do something with the narcos. We'll figure it out, — it. You want to say anything else about your documentary? — No, man. You can check it out. everyoneislying. com uh this website has all the theater dates and um come see the movie. It's fun. And I'll be going to as many screenings as I can in person

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 21:00) [20:00]

doing Q& As. All those will be listed on the website as well. And uh yeah, come out, support, and have fun. It's a fun movie, right? Like it's It's an easy lift. It's uh It's an enjoyable night out. So, um no, I'm really proud of it. Thanks for the time. Thanks, Vice. Thanks, Ben. Thanks for coming. Yeah, thank you. Crypto is really small at that point. It's only it only came into existence in 20 2009 is when they actually put it into into function. Um So, Back in the day he does not like me. Um he uh he's refers to me as a crisis actor. Oh, we're that deep. I mean, what are you even talking about, dude? Like how does that apply to me? Like do I need to be doing this? No, I don't this, right? And anyway, it kind of to me shows his colors, you know, Mr. Back. He might be um he's nervous I might be onto something. Yeah. — Hey.