# Former AOPA President and CEO Darren Pleasance on the next chapter

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** AVweb
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJbwg-1jl0
- **Дата:** 10.05.2026
- **Длительность:** 32:59
- **Просмотры:** 4,022
- **Источник:** https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/52714

## Описание

Plane + Pilot Editor-in-Chief Cayla McLeod sat down with Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association former President and CEO Darren Pleasance while attending the iconic Valdez STOL Competition in Alaska. From Darren’s Alaska backcountry adventures to his corporate leadership experience—and what’s next on the horizon—you won’t want to miss this organic conversation. Plane + Pilot is AvWeb's sister publication.

## Транскрипт

### Segment 1 (00:00 - 05:00) []

Hey everyone, it's Kayla Cloud here with the Plane and Pilot Podcast. Today, I am super excited to be joined by Daren Pleasants. Daren, thank you so much for joining me today. — Thanks for having me today, Kayla. I appreciate it. Goodness, I have never recorded a podcast in an environment quite like the one we're sitting in right now. — This is pretty spectacular. I don't know if your viewers can see it, but there's probably 20 airplanes beyond that uh Cessna down there, all here to compete at Valdez. Yes, these mountains are stunning. We saw the snow the sun for the first time today. Lots of snow all around us. It's freezing. You are probably — got layers on. Thank you Cirrus for giving me this quarter zip a year ago or so, so I appreciate it. — There you go. Well, Daren, I like to start these episodes off big and broad. So, who are you and what's your role within general aviation? So, I am I guess a general aviation enthusiast since I was 13 years old or so. Uh love kind of all dimensions of aviation, whether it's jets all the way down to little airplanes like these and do cool things in the back country. Um uh business guy, too. I spend a lot of time in business, although aviation was through that journey all the way. Um and uh I'm someone who loves helping people discover why amazing is so why aviation is so amazing. Well, Daren, you know, we've been spending some time here together in Alaska over these last few days. I picked you up in Anchorage and here we are in Valdez. For those of you that don't know, it's a what was it? 5 and 1/2 hour drive? — Yeah. It was quite the drive, so we thought, "Hey, why not meet up, share the time together, get to know each other some more? " So, thanks for reaching out to me and making all of this happen. — That was cool, cuz yeah, otherwise, I'd never done the drive. I'm sure we'll get into it, but I've been to Valdez probably 50 times as a pilot way back when I was I'll call it a kid. I was in my 20s. Um but I never done the drive. And so, I thought rather than just buy a ticket and fly out here, I would drive. And when I saw you were here, I thought that would be a great way to spend some time, get to know you. I've been enjoying watching you on Facebook and Instagram and all the social media. I think it's cool what you're doing. So, and it turned out to be 100% exactly that. It was a great trip. — Well, thank you. So, let's just jump straight into it. You know, you mentioned Alaska and flying out here and all that good stuff, but let's go back to the beginning. What got you started in aviation? Um like a lot of kids, I think, I got into model airplanes young at like 12, 13 years old. Um I was lucky that I did not come from Although an aviation family, uh I discovered model airplanes by accident. And that translated into a an interest in aviation. And I was lucky that my parents were willing to let me do that. So, despite them having no interest or connection to aviation, they saw how much I liked it. And I happened to live about a 25, 30-minute bike ride from the Livermore Airport in California. And so, every day after school, I would ride my bike out to the airport, and I would watch airplanes. And then eventually, as often happens, somebody noticed, and they invited me in to help wash their airplane, change oil, gap spark plugs, all those things you learn early on in exchange for an airplane ride. And so, that's how I got into it. And then that became, you know, got my I soloed at 16 and private at 17, all the stuff a lot of people have done. Um but I was lucky by the time I was 18, you know, CFI and instrument, commercial, all those things. Flew all the way through college, got into charter flying, ended up coming up when I was 22 to Alaska. Uh I'd seen a talk by a fellow who's become a dear friend of mine in all these years, but he was an Alaska bush pilot, and I saw his talk, and it just lit this fire in me. And so, I came up here and went door-to-door and managed to find a job up here, which included flying into Valdez almost every day at 22 years old. Uh and then went on to fly corporate jets for about the next seven or so years, got into competition aerobatics, warbirds, all these things. So, it's been a amazing journey of general aviation on pretty much every dimension. I love Well, you mentioned, you know, flying out here. So, what was that transition like, learning to fly in the lower 48, and then coming up here to Alaska and really jumping in headfirst? Yeah, it was First, I was lucky. I um my first ride was in a 7 AC Champ, and I didn't know the difference between tailwheel and nose gear at the time, but I've come to really appreciate the luck I had in meeting a set of pilots who all were almost all of them were tailwheel folks, which got me into Taylorcrafts and Champs and Citabrias and Decathlons and eventually Pitts and all the competition aerobatics. So, when I arrived up here, as you can see behind me, you know, a huge portion of airplanes here are tailwheel airplanes. So, I already had a leg up on the average person, let's say, coming up here. Um I'd been a glider tow pilot during college every summer. Didn't make a lot of money, but man, I flew a lot, like 30 hours of 30 landings a day. Um and someone was paying me. The money was flowing this way, not that way, and you know all about that, right now. It's nice to have money flow this way, even if money is like $50 for a day of flying. It was plus 50, not minus, you know, 500. Um so, when I got up here, it was really around um trying to just find

### Segment 2 (05:00 - 10:00) [5:00]

a job at tailwheel time. I did have over 1,200 hours. In fact, I had over 1,500 by then, because I had taken my ATP check ride down in California, but I wasn't 23 yet, and as you know, you have to be 23 to have your ATP. So, it turns out, for those of you who like want to know, you can still do your ATP check ride, and what you get is a nice letter from the Fisto that says, "On your 23rd birthday, you know, redeem this for an ATP certificate. " And so, um so, I had a fair amount of experience. I was flying Navajos and twin Cessnas and Senecas and all of these things as a charter pilot at 22. And so, when I got up here, I had both tailwheel time and 135 experience, and so, that's really what opened the doors here. It's um Although, I will say the one thing that was interesting is I sent probably 300 letters up here in like January, February time frame of that year. Um looking for a from the yellow pages. Yeah, we had to talk about on the trip out. We got this whole story, but Kayla's view of the yellow pages are it's what you use to be able to see over the dash of an airplane. — Yep. Absolutely. — reason you'd have that is I thought that was awesome. So this in this case yellow pages in those days were designed to help someone like me figure out who are all the charter companies in Alaska across the entire state that I could send letters to. So you went from, you know, learning to fly in the lower 48 to really becoming a true professional pilot here in Alaska, but then you went on to also fly some really cool people. Uh you know, you had mentioned that you were John Travolta's pilot. What was that experience like? Yeah, as is often the case in aviation you're right place, right time and I was instructor in Santa Barbara. John Travolta had a Hawker Jet HS-125. And um he uh just had his pilot, he didn't call me himself, but his pilot called the FBO looking for someone to be right seat person in his Hawker Jet cuz he had just taken on a new movie called Look Who's Talking is filmed in New York City. And so he was going to be doing flights back and forth across the country. And so of course I said yes immediately and I had a multi-engine rating and I was a multi-engine instructor and all these things. Had some jet time, not a lot. Um and it was a part-time job. So I was still going to school, teaching, doing other stuff. Um but I got to do that. And he was just a great guy, you know, he had uh it was right before he did Pulp Fiction. So he hadn't sort of re-energized his career, but he you know, he was still he'd done Saturday Night Fever and Welcome Back Kotter and he was doing Look Who's Talking and um and so uh I it was great. Especially for me at the I was probably 20 21 right around that 21 22 at that time just before coming up here. And uh it was just cool to have him get come up to in the two seats up front somewhere over Salina, Kansas or something and he'd usually have food. He'd feed us and then ask how the winds were and just a really nice guy. And then one really cool thing was just 2 months ago or so living legends. Um I had reached out to a spoke saying I haven't seen John Travolta since I flew for him as a 20-year-old in my early 20s and uh and somehow it got back to him and some guy came up to me at the table and he's like is Darren Plewesant at this table? And I was like yeah, that's me. Like what did I do wrong, right? So he says follow me. He's this big bouncer guy and he takes me backstage and there was John Travolta and he had heard I was there and I don't know that he fully remembered me at the time cuz I it was years ago, 30 years ago or more. Um but he knew I had flown for him that was when I called and so he was so gracious and I was hopefully gracious back cuz he had opened up a lot of doors and as a 21-ish year old guy getting to fly for a movie star, getting to fly a jet going across the country. It was just super cool closing the loop with someone who had, you know, unknown to him I think at the time it made a pretty profound impact on my career journey. That's incredible. Well, your career journey, you know, you've been a professional pilot, but you've also been a really accomplished businessman. So how did you make that transition from, you know, the left seat to uh leading in the business world? Uh my last flying job was for private equity company in Santa Barbara. He had a guy that ran that had a saber liner and a citation. Um and uh it was I was there for almost 6 years. And after about the first probably four or five months of flying for them, uh he asked if I wanted to spend time in the office when we weren't flying. And you know, reality is most pilots are like absolutely not. Like you pay me to fly. When I'm not flying, I want to be home with my family. Well, I for one didn't have a family. I was at that point 24 years old. Um and also I was just intrigued and so when we would land the jet I would go into the office and sometimes it might be a week or two between flights. So in those weeks or two I'd be in the office learning about buying and selling companies, building cash flow models, commercial real estate. And so uh I ended up doing that. I went from kind of 100% pilot to kind of at the end probably 80% business associate in a private equity company and 20% pilot. And then unfortunately about four years into that journey he had a heart attack and passed away. And uh I stayed on for another year and a half or two to help wind things down, sell the boats and the planes and the cars and the businesses. And then didn't really know what to do with my life. Airlines weren't hiring. I desperately wanted to be an airline pilot, and as often the case, ups and downs, they were going bankrupt and they were furloughing people. And so I applied to business school and thought I would burn 2 years and then maybe go back to being an airline pilot. And I discovered this world of business and end up getting hired.

### Segment 3 (10:00 - 15:00) [10:00]

Uh end up going to work for a company called McKinsey & Company, which is amazing management consulting firm. That then led to a job after quite a few years at Google uh leading a global team for them. And then that led after about 6 and 1/2 years to a job at Cisco Systems uh working with the CEO and his leadership team on transforming that company. And uh and then, you know, year and a half ago got the call to see if I'd want to come lead AOPA. So that all kind of happened, I'll call it accidentally, but um you know, a lot of dots lined up with my background and skill set that resulted in that opportunity. Well, you know, I think a lot of people are familiar with AOPA, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. But for those that might be listening that, you know, maybe they're a new student pilot or that kind of thing, could you go into detail about what the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association Yes, the oldest of the uh aircraft associations. It was founded in 1939, so a long time ago. Uh what is that? 80 87 years, I guess, now. And um you know, I think the main AOPA does a lot of things, but it's a lot of about advocacy, so really fighting to make sure that we all get to continue to do what we're doing out here. And that's helping protect airports. It's uh helping to keep fees as low as possible. Um it's also helping to bring people into flying, whether it's scholarships or things like the high school program. Uh it's advice to pilots, who could be as simple as how do I fly to Canada cuz I'm going to Val d'Isère to the stall competition to, "Hey, I just uh my blood pressure's increasing and how do I make sure I don't lose my medical? " All of those things are things that AOPA helps with. So that was a big part of the intrigue of getting asked to go lead it, you know, for basically 2025. And um it's it is an important organization, so I was happy to be part of that. And it felt to me like it was a perfect combination of um what I had done in aviation across so many different dimensions, and then what I had done in business across so many, you know, world-class companies. And it's like, okay, this is the chance at this stage in my life to come in and take on this great organization. Yeah, I can't agree more. You know, our common link, even though we weren't there at the same time, you know, I was there at AOPA from um October of '21 to February of '24, you know, we both spent time there at the organization, but very different levels, you know, I started out as assistant editor and then as social media marketer. I had the pleasure of leading the AOPA Sweepstakes S-170 uh restoration. Um so, loved my time there AOPA. Just amazing people, amazing folks. But, you know, like I said, you were leading the organization. So, uh from someone on the outside, you know, can you go into detail about what that role looked like for you? Yeah, it's a cool role. I really did love it. Um there's a lot that goes on to it, right? Cuz a big part of it is connecting with members, of course, it's a membership organization. So, a lot of it is spent out at events like this or Oshkosh or Sun 'n Fun 'n whatever. Um donors play a huge role in enabling AOPA to do what it does, and so spending time with donors. Lots of partners in the industry, whether it's Cirrus, Hartzell, um Embry-Riddle, you know, and uh University of North Dakota, CAU out in California, a bunch of these really cool schools that help get young folks in aviation. Um and then it's obviously it's a business at the end of the day, the money comes in, money goes out, and you have to manage that. And so, there's a lot of interesting aspects. And for part of the year, you know, probably 7 months of the year, it's a 7-day-a-week job, pretty much, because you have the business stuff during the week, call it. And then you have all the aviation member stuff, donor stuff, typically Thursday or Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And so, um uh but to me it is super energizing. So, uh, you know, obviously I'm out of AOPA now, but whoever ends up taking that role again, I think that to me is what was exciting about it. So, I think whoever ends up taking it, that's it's if you're all in on aviation, there's like no better job, I don't think, in the world where you get to spend pretty much every waking and sometimes sleeping moment thinking about how do you make aviation stronger. You know, we were sitting at lunch, uh, just a very short while ago eating our clam chowder trying to warm up in this Chinese restaurant here in Valdez, Alaska, of all places, uh, to sit down and have a meal with Darren Pleasant. Uh, you know, we're sitting there and I was asking you, you know, what was it like and the most surprising part about leading organizations, particularly from an advocacy standpoint within Congress? And you really enlightened me in that arena. So, would you mind going into a little detail so that our listeners can also kind of get an inside look at what that process is like? Yeah, I didn't have any experience in Congress. And AOPA has a great government relations team that, uh, is both, you know, handling all the airport stuff that happened at the local level like this, but also helping, uh, navigate what happens in DC. Uh, and it is really interesting and again, I'm a I'm I only scratched the surface, I would say, compared to what that team is capable of doing, but uh, I did have in my role had the opportunity to meet a lot of Congress, uh, both on the house side as well as the Senate side. What was interesting, um, is, you know, the vast majority of people in Congress, whether it's on the house or Senate side, don't know anything about aviation. And, uh, you were fortunate

### Segment 4 (15:00 - 20:00) [15:00]

though that there are enough people on any of these committees that do know something that we've at least got advocates in there on the, you know, within Congress, uh, who will care enough about aviation to spend the time to learn about the issues. And they all look to AOPA as like the beacon out there to uh, educate them on what are the things we care about and why do we care about it, right? Why does it matter to this country and to pilots in this country? And there's enough people across the country who do fly that they have to pay attention. So, that was interesting to see that, but also to had a lot of meetings with folks who know nothing and they're on the transportation infrastructure committee or they're on the aviation subcommittee or the commerce committee on the Senate side. So, Ted Cruz and the group up there. And there's a lot of people who know nothing about general aviation and you meet with these folks and you come away going, "Holy cow, like they're making decisions that affect all of us with essentially zero or many cases zero understanding of what this is. " And that, I think, is a big part of why an organization like AOPA plays a critical role in this cuz they'll get in there and not only with the congressmen and women and the senators, but more importantly, I would argue, is with their staff. It's their staff who are often there through multiple election cycles, multiple individuals in that role. They will be there to learn the issues and learn the challenges and they'll invest the time cuz the senators themselves are so busy. They'll invest the time to educate themselves and be educated by likes of myself and the team on what matters and then they'll educate their congressperson and then if all goes well, that congressperson then advocates for what we care about. So, it's having been to Europe as well, we have it so much better here than in Europe cuz there's almost nobody in Europe who is in a role of leadership in the government that has any aviation experience. And so, even as few as we have here, you know, and it and it's dozens, but it's not hundreds. Um it's a huge benefit we've got and so, keeping them in Congress matters. And then AOPA working with them to help them understand the issues and advocate for us matters. So, that was an eye-opener. I didn't really realize how important that was and all to some extent how fragile it is if we weren't to continue to do that. You know, aside from members of Congress not knowing anything about general aviation, what do you think are some of the major issues that we're facing here as pilots today and particularly, you know, our freedom to fly concerning general aviation. Yeah, there's a bunch of issues out there. I guess not in any particular order. You know, transition unleaded fuel. So, that's a big one. You know, we all depend on 100 low lead today or most of us do. Some of us are running lower octane and car gas and things like that 94 UL and other unleaded fuels. But, most of us depend heavily on 100 low lead. And so, that transition to unleaded fuel doing it safely, doing it timely, doing it in ways that don't jeopardize the airplanes that we care about. You know, that's an important one. I think increasingly we've seen ADSB being used for non-safety related things whether it's I mean the primary one is fees being collected using ADSB and that's you know, we all care about safety and ADSB is an amazing technology. And so, anything that you know, dissuades somebody from installing ADSB I personally feel and I think you know, AOPA as an organization felt like that was a misuse and it says not that it didn't work well for tracking landing fees. It's just that it creates a disincentive to installing it and that results in less safety for all of us. And so, that's another issue. You know, we want basic med in Canada. All these folks are coming up. Many of them are probably our basic med folks and you either have a chance either lie and don't let the folks in Canada know or the better way to do it would be to have the Canadian government recognize our basic med medical and allow people to fly in Canada with that. And so, there was a lot of work that I was doing and I'm sure we'll continue to help advocate for that. You know, hangars or hangars at airports are difficult to find. Airports aren't investing in hangars anymore as much as they should. They have an unclear view on how you make the economics work. So, that's another source of advocacy that you know, AOPA needs to keep doing to make sure that we all have places to park airplanes. You know, and and there's a bunch of stuff. Keeping airports open, keeping it cost effective, keeping it free to fly as it is. Well, Darren as I've gotten to know you over the past few days especially well, I feel like you know, we've had plenty of time in the car. You know, An hour and a half hours. Yeah, we're talking, eating, all the good things. You know, I've also had the pleasure to learn that you know, as well as a true passionate aviator and businessman, leader, you're also an author, which I don't think very many people know about. So, would you mind going into your journey into writing a book? — Absolutely, yeah. I was I thought about doing it probably 20 years ago. It just kind of occurred to me that I was I kind of stumbled into this really intriguing life of aviation in the main thing and in so many dimensions of aviation. And then I end up in the business world and I was surprised by how many people were not particularly happy with their lives and it kind of surprised me because they were typically making good money, living in good neighborhoods, had gone to great schools, working for respectable

### Segment 5 (20:00 - 25:00) [20:00]

companies and so to me by all accounts they ought to be among the happiest people in the world and often times they weren't. And so that was kind of the first like how could this be possible? Especially in you know, this even more I'm in aviation, you're around people who are just fired up about life and I was in that other world where by all accounts I would have thought people would be fired up too and they weren't. And so the book was really around what are the characteristics of people who build inspired and fulfilling lives and I had seen it in not just aviation but other industries as well. And so the book called True North which is kind of a play on this whole aviation world but also around how do you set a course in life that sets you up for success. And it's called a handbook for inspired living. And it's done great on Amazon. It's been out for about two and a half years I guess now and it's fun now. I travel the world and people come up all over the world with the book. They want me to sign it which is it's just really cool cuz I hadn't anticipated. It's really more of a me project. I just wanted to get something down on paper and then it's turned out to mean something to a lot of people. Well, thank you for giving me a copy of the book. I was kind of funny. I always carry one with me everywhere I go. If I know there's someone I'm going to run across where I think there's something in this book that will hopefully spark a thought that results in decisions that help them live inspired and fulfilling lives. So, as we talked coming out I'm like, "This is perfect for you. " — Oh, well, thank you and I can't wait to dig into it. Can't read Can't wait to read about the step-by-step guide to creating and crafting my perfect life. — It's an audio book, so if you want to hear me ramble at you for about 5 hours. So, it's about a 5 and 1/2 hour book. I read it. So, if you're driving back here next year and you haven't quite read the book, you can listen to me. Yes, absolutely. Well, I can handle your voice for plenty of hours. — I know you can do 5 and 1/2 hours at least. Absolutely. Well, you know, Darren, as you mentioned the name of your book is True North and here you are in life kind of creating a new path for yourself, you know, looking I know, you probably know what your true north is, but you're in a transition period in your life, if I can call it that. Good way to phrase it. — So, what is next? I think a lot of people are wondering. I mean, the good news I don't really know. So, that's the truthful answer. However, I've had enough stuff and this is in the book, too, but enough stuff that didn't go my way in life and at the time felt really crap like I wanted to be an airline pilot. That never happened, right? I and I remember feeling really bummed out about that at multiple points in the journey like just why not? It was just bad timing. You know, in hindsight I'm like, "Wow, thankfully. " Not that I'm a guest airline flying, but so many other opportunities came my way to go do stuff that I never would have had a chance to do, uh you know, had I not ended up going down the path I did. So, I've my mindset is very much one of, you know, when something appears bad to have happened, um I don't think about it that way. I think, "Hey, this you know, what is the next door that opens? " Like, "This is something that happened. " I don't even judge it bad or good. "This is something that happened. What comes out of that? " And so far in my life, every time something like that's happened, something really cool comes out of it. And so, I'm kind of a treat I'm almost like I'm in a uh you know, a sitcom's maybe the wrong a reality TV show a little bit, right? And I'm the main character in my own life and I'm as intrigued to watch the next episode as hopefully you know the audience might be. So you know I wanted it to be aviation. I love aviation. I I'm I have the freedom now to go do whatever I want. So I'm coming to things like Valdez. I was at Aero Friedrichshafen over in Germany week and a half or two ago. You know I'm going to be I'll be at Oshkosh of course. That's just you know that's imprinted on me now at this point. But I'm going to as many aviation things as I can unless spending time with people that care about airplanes and and that'll turn into something. I actually don't know what it'll be but it'll turn into something. Well I think there are a lot of AOPA members and supporters of yourself that are out there that are wondering you know how can they make a difference? difference in GA? within AOPA perhaps? What are your words of wisdom to those folks? I think uh I'd say you know help young people get into aviation. You know you and I are both beneficiaries of other people who took time to help us get to where we are and you'll have lots more of that ahead of you as you do more of this and I have had so much of that and continue to do this day right? Even just I went out flying right and we went out landed on a gravel bar and I met a new guy today that I didn't know 5 hours ago and uh you know and that's just how aviation is. So um but it's expensive as we know aviation's expensive. Um there's more fences even this even Valdez there's fences around these airports. You can't ride your bike to the airport and ride between the hangars like you used to be able to like I used to. And so I think that just raises the bar for all of us to try a little extra hard to expose young people to aviation and then make it possible for them to get that first airplane ride and then come back out and fly again and you know I unfortunately kids aren't I don't think as ambitious as maybe you and I were. Like I would you couldn't keep me from the airport. You if I had any chance to wash an airplane to change oil I would do it cuz I was not that I expected a ride but I knew that if I did those things often enough a ride would happen and it did inevitably it did. And so I think you know for all of us create those rides. And there's a friend I met along the way Kenneth Morris I'll give him a shout out. He's awesome guy and he had a saying he grew up in the projects of Houston and he had a saying about, you know, you got to see it to be it. And that was really true for the

### Segment 6 (25:00 - 30:00) [25:00]

community he grew up in, the young black child, lot of drugs. Aviation was not something that any of his friends saw, and he managed to get exposure to the Coast Guard at the time, and that really opened his eyes to a world that he didn't know existed. And I think that's true for a lot of people today. They don't know all of what exists in this world of aviation, and they won't know unless, you know, AOPA does a good job getting the message out, and they're doing more and more every day, but I think all of us individually have a I call it an obligation to give back, you know, we've all been fortunate, and help others see it so they can be it. Absolutely. It's a full circle type of industry. I'm so thankful for my mentors and for the people that have impacted my life and said, "Hey, you know, we're going up for a flight. Let's go. " Like you got to do today. So, I want to jump back into that. This is a full circle opportunity for you, you know, you were a young 20-something out here flying around Valdez. You had never driven into the town of Valdez before the other day. Only in an airplane, yeah. Only seen it from the air. — yeah. So, what does it mean to you to be back here in Valdez for the STOL competition and flying? You got to fly today. What does that mean to you? Yeah, it was super cool. And it was even when we took off today, I hadn't seen that view at least 50 times or so, and so it was cool to go, "Wow. " And you know, and it felt like it was yesterday, which is kind of crazy cuz I, you know, I'm 60 now, and I was 22, wasn't quite 23 yet, my paper ATP letter that I could take to the FSDO in August of that year. Um so, that's a lot of years, and it feels like it was yesterday. It was really cool. And then the fellow I was flying with, um you know, he knew the airplane well, I didn't know the airplane, but I knew the area. And it's like, he's like, "You fly, and you be my tour guide. " And so, we went up to the Shoup Glacier up here, out to the Columbia Glacier, out over the Prince William Sound, and it was like it was yesterday I was here. So, that was super cool. Other interesting thing though is, man, the glaciers are not what they used to be. It's kind of crazy. It I have pictures on my phone. I showed you yesterday the Columbia Glacier with the cruise ship up against it. One of the fastest moving glaciers back then. Still probably is. And man, it's way up there. So you know, that's just it's like it's not what it used to be. It's still though I think the most spectacular place in the world. So for anybody who's listening who's not been to Alaska, you have to come to Alaska. Cuz in reality, you can only see probably 3% of it from a road. The only way to see Alaska is via an airplane. And the good news is this audience, I'm sure most of them are pilots. And there's no better place to use an airplane than Alaska. Absolutely. Well, there's a young 20-something listening out there that's maybe flying in the lower 48, maybe you know, paying their dues. And they hear this podcast, they're like, I have to go do that. What are your big pieces of advice to them? Well, good. They won't need the yellow pages. There's this thing now, you may have it's called the internet. Super cool. I don't know if it's going to survive, but it's a really cool technology. I hope it does. Um there's nothing Well, one is you know, the single thing that opened more doors for me than anything else in my life, strangely enough, was tailwheel experience. And most people don't get that anymore. Um and I think if I think about all the things I did, like there's no doubt flying up here, even though I didn't only fly tailwheel stuff up here. I flew a lot of nose gear airplanes. But the fact that I had tailwheel experience differentiated me, set me apart from the vast majority of pilots already. Um two, you know, I had you know, management rating and all those things. But the tailwheel rating allowed me to get in open the competition aerobatics. into warbirds I'm doing now. And frankly, it does make you a better pilot just in the sense that you have to learn stick and rudder skills in ways that you don't have to as much with nose gear. So the one is, if you can get tailwheel experience, upset recovery, even aerobatics, all those things are found amazing foundational things. So I would give that advice. I think secondly, uh learned this, there's nothing like being here. Like I tried to get a job from the lower 48. I called, I wrote letters, I did all that, and then it wasn't until someone finally was like, "Look, I get car tire kickers all the time. Uh and most of them don't have any Alaska time to begin with, for one. Uh and most of them won't actually come up. They're just kind of dreaming, they won't come up. " And so I bought myself a one-way ticket to Alaska. Went to Fairbanks, started knocking on doors, and hitchhiking. I showed you that picture of me hitchhiking down here. I hitchhiked to find a job. And I think there's something to be First, it just kind of shows the you know, sort of the energy you're willing to put into it, the initiative taking. But also, you know, you get to look someone in the eye, and they get to kind of size you out and say, you know, you talk about your experience. So I would give people that advice. Um attitude matters a lot, I think, you know, it's uh people want to work with someone that they think on average sees the glass half full, not half empty, isn't about blaming other people, it's about, you know, if the problem happens, you fix the problem, you figure out how to make it better, and I think attitude has always served me well. Uh and then I think maybe lastly, I'd say there's just a you know, there's something about just appreciating the opportunities we have in this. And I think, you know, there's a lot of egos in aviation, and I think there's a lot to be said for people who show up and just want to

### Segment 7 (30:00 - 32:00) [30:00]

yeah, appreciate it, help other people get into it, say thanks a lot, cuz you get a lot of people are more than happy to spend money and invest in you as an individual. Uh and the least you can do is express appreciation for that. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, we're out here shivering. I think it's snowing on us. I can't really tell. I'm layered up, you're not. I think there's a barbecue going on behind us. — We have one coming, I think. Yeah. Maybe a a cold beer, who knows, but uh — Yeah, or a hot toddy. — Or a hot toddy, I think the latter. That was Yeah, that was last night. Um but one last question, then let's go warm up. What are you looking forward to most here this weekend in Valdez? Uh I mean, I've already gotten some of this. I was hoping to get a ride and just going to re-experience that. So, I got that already. Um Uh I know you got offered the opportunity, as did I, to go out to the line. It's all about the line, as we heard the other — The white line. — Yeah, it's all about And for those listening, a little bit of background on the white line, because I haven't done that interview yet. But, you know, as someone who comes out here all the time, the Air Boss, he's been out here for years and years. — Yep. It doesn't matter what piece of equipment, how many mods, how crazy cool your airplane is, how much money you spent. All that matters is that white line. — Yep. And you either came up short, meaning you landed too soon, you defaulted, or you went too far, or you were the shortest after the white line. And uh it is So, that'll be fun. So, I'm looking forward to that, being out on the line and seeing that. There's so many cool airplanes and cool people, and uh hopefully you'll get a chance to You can't see her behind you, but Lee Coats um and her husband Mike, super cool people. Candy Copter, follow Lee uh and her adventures. I think one of the best helicopter pilots probably in the world. And she's here. She lives right here, and she's in Arizona in the winter time, but she's up here now, and uh she's super cool. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to spending time with cool people and watching cool flying. Absolutely. — is I got no other obligations now. So, every day is a Saturday, as I told you. So, I'm kind of liking that actually right now. — Yeah, you're quasi retired. — I am quasi retired. So, we'll see how long that lasts. But, right now, at this moment in time, that is what it is, and I'm going to take them full advantage of it. And so, yeah, I'm just no obligations, but just loving being around airplanes and watching cool stuff. Well, Darren, I can't thank you enough, not only for, you know, taking the time to sit with me today and reaching out to me and Jen General, but also for your transparency throughout this entire journey. I know it has not been an easy time for you. Um I really appreciate that. And and, you know, the face and the words that you've put out there to the members, to the world, to general aviation. So, um I just can't thank you enough. It's been a pleasure, and uh I think it's time to go warm up. Yeah, there are ways to do that. It's only called indoors. So, Well, thanks for taking the time to have the conversation. And I have love and what you do out there. It's fun. I know you're a tailwheel gal, too, and beyond. Tailwheel's not the be-all end-all, but it's a big part of aviation that opens up so many doors. So, I love watching your journey, and you know, there's a lot of our story that's kind of overlaps. I'm a few years ahead of you, but what you're doing, I love your hustle and integrity. So, so thanks for what you're doing. It's really cool to watch. — Well, thank you. Let's go warm up. — warm up. Thanks.