# UpOnly + Bankless

## Метаданные

- **Канал:** UpOnly
- **YouTube:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA
- **Дата:** 10.11.2022
- **Длительность:** 2:11:41
- **Просмотры:** 37,173

## Описание

Cobie and Ledger join Ryan and David of Bankless to cope together and try and put some of the pieces back in order.

00:00 - Intro 
03:30 - Update / Binance Walks Away / $8 Billion hole
14:50 - BitBoy and SBF / Sponsorships and Accountability 
24:30 - How do outsiders see the industry? / At what point did SBF know?
31:20 - Multicoin Capital / Gods of 2021 / Alternate Exchanges 
39:00 - Improving the User Experience for Normies / Wallet solutions 
44:35 - Winklevoss Twins / How many people at FTX knew? / Politicians 
51:10 - Effective Altruism / Responsibility 
1:01:08 - TRX / Tron / Justin Sun
1:08:30 - Solana 
1:15:45 - Network Effects, DeFi / How many years did SBF set the industry back?
1:31:25 - Comparing this impact to other events / Mentality moving forward 
1:44:00 - Incentives and people in power / NFTs / Parsing out what is valuable 
1:55:50 - Will there be another cycle? / GaryVee
1:58:55 - Final Thoughts / Crypto Winter

## Содержание

### [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA) Intro

stream uh you didn't expect that did you did we start David let's forget oh yeah we're live brother oh what's up guys what's up yeah wow thankless after dark yeah without Kobe just with Ledger well he's still in the shower he's coming right well allegedly yeah he's just showering unless we're gonna get two rug pulls in one day I've heard he's uh he's finalizing the next up only sponsorship he's feeling that deal he's buying FTX right now for one dollar we can all buy FTX that's no longer a problem wait it's only a dollar it's only a dog you just why are we so stressed out over a dollar I don't understand you also might have to pay millions billions of dollars to make everyone whole um to pay their debts listen on our stream we got a corner on the bottom left and maybe Kobe will be there maybe Justin's son another special guest will be there don't know I think if Justin sun gets there before Kobe Justin's son gets to come back in another time after that um Justin's son did you guys seen this I'll share my screen for people who don't know he just announced that he is planning to bail us out uh we have two different form factors of live streams uh coming together right now oh man sorry yeah just tell them they're smart smart audience go subscribe to up only right now what should we tell them uh up only dot TV Wait no that's not right go to Twitter go to twitch. tv slash up only TV something like that who cares best podcast in crypto what are you drinking David uh oh I am drinking a Naked and Famous with a habanero in it uh because like I said while we were getting the stream ready to go uh Sam bankman freed made himself very famous but he's been swimming naked this entire time that is my drink what are you drinking Ledger uh sorry I was dming Justin's on the video link I'm stuck in the waiting room wait is he really coming in I need more people on Twitter here's that here's Kobe pressroom Kobe is okay my scenes coming in fashionably late how you doing David you've upgraded your background is it a green screen uh no this is uh Brooklyn not a green screen it was Brooklyn last time you saw me I was in San Diego yes are you already live yeah we are oh we are live brother yeah we're live on both channels and you already messed up my stuff when two streaming platforms come together bad things happen yeah stream if you didn't spend half your time like redoing no sorry I was like I like literally just woke up so good morning yeah where did you leave things when you uh when do you went to sleep um what do you know yeah uh oh yeah sure I haven't even looked at

### [3:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=210s) Update / Binance Walks Away / $8 Billion hole

like what's happened since um well binance had walked away yep um and like Sam still haven't said anything so he had just tweeted the like I tried sad face thing yeah that's about it I think the only thing that's come after that is like people have concluded that there's something like a six to seven billion dollar hole in fgx's balance sheet I don't think wait I thought we were up to like eight to ten do we know Wall Street Journal said it was about eight right it was like it could be as large as eight how did that happen eight billion dollar hole in your balance sheet I mean I don't know if you're asking me how to lose money on crypto I can tell you um and I mean it seems like they just did [ __ ] up stuff with customer deposits right like they just either loaned them out or directionally traded them or like used them for their own personal reasons um do you think it was all Alameda because imagine okay Alameda should have blown up along with a16 or three hours capital and the rest of them but they got yeah that's not invoke a16c right now uh but they didn't because uh FTX uh gave them a big ass buffer they didn't give them like a multi-billion dollar buffer so like it would have FTX still have gone under without alamina because I feel like that answer is almost yes yeah I mean I don't know I the only thing I can think of is plausible but I have to admit that I just like constantly reveal myself as naive in these things because like maybe they just gave them eight billion dollars dude like we don't work they could just done that they could have gone oh it'll be fine they'll make it back they're really great Traders um but they could have also imagine if they got like a Bitcoin or ethereum denominated whole when the prices were much lower so let's say they had a missing um like hundred thousand eighth hole or something but ethereum was worth like 300 of the time and they were like okay cool we can plug this whole no drama and then suddenly ethereum's worth five thousand dollars and in order to try and cover the whole they've done stuff wrong and made it worse perhaps um I can maybe buy that um but that means that they've been in trouble for like 18 plus months now okay but it's so well that's the thing right it's like um how like how did SBF get himself in this situation right like was this is this kind of a person who's a con man from the beginning did he do you think he began with this end game in mind or do you think he's like a lot of people who kind of go down this path where you know it's a shortcut here to shortcut here and gradually he kind of slips into the position that he's found himself in in early November like is he purely nefarious con man or is this I I can't think he accidentally stumbled into like losing eight billion dollars but is there an element of that a main man I don't know I don't know like I watched the saranas documentary thing recently and it seems like she started with good intentions and then things just like Slipped Away and then at some point she like turned and was like I gotta keep I've got to be evil in order to like keep this like rolling and then she chose the evil path yeah I I just don't like if it's impossible to know the like some people were telling me all this stuff had happened really recently so Alameda had a big problem in like September um and you I don't know if you saw that it was a tweet that said like Sam he was saying we're just moving we're rotating some wallets and there was like the eight billion dollars of ftt moved um at the end of September and he tweeted oh don't worry about it we're just rotating some wallets but um this was the point when um a bunch of the um collateral was like um borrowed against perhaps um foreign which cases like you know they were fine until really recently and then almost instantly blew up but I don't know I find it easier to suspect that like two-step it was [ __ ] for a while and then like the tide going out reveals thought it was [ __ ] like it was [ __ ] for a while and you try and like fix it but like make it worse and then the tide goes out and you're just not in control of that maybe that makes sense um but I mean who [ __ ] knows dude second third biggest exchange there's another element here that I'm confused to buy which is now they're talking about the FTX hole alone so is lending money to Alameda part of the FTX hole or is that the Alameda hole like who you know what I mean because if it's 8 billion not even counting money they lent to Alameda like they did other done that's even dumber that's like right that's what I was saying that's what I'm saying it's not just Alameda they would have gone under regardless of Alameda yeah if it was not just that kind of what counterparty or what did they do with the money well they bought they bailed out half of the industry that was a 250 million dollar line of credit yeah literally weren't they buying a lot of things but it doesn't add up it doesn't add about eight billion worth you can't get a billion dollars worth out of that so if you're at 8 billion then what the hell happened when you're making 10 million a day or more or whatever Kobe did the napkin math on based on trading fees it doesn't make any sense like and if that's the case then there's got to be some like really serious fraud uh maybe it was just really simple and they went right okay so we make you know low mid eight figures a day if we borrow a billion dollars of customer deposits to YOLO into you know like his personal Robin Hood stake or something which I'm gonna buy Robin Hood it's good for like alignment about companies whatever um it actually only takes FTX however many days like three or four months to re-earn that money so like what's the problem there and you do it once and you like cool it works we're now whole again uh we actually just managed to accelerate our business because we use those customers deposits to achieve our business goals and now those customers deposits are replenished maybe you do that a few times trying to be like efficient with your all the money that's available to you um and suddenly like you've done it one too many times and the tide goes out and there's a bank run and like you know like there was literally a gigantic background for this to even be like properly discovered so they could have operated much closer to insolvent like the insolvency line where they just don't have deposits left um if this didn't happen it could have gone on for years and maybe they could have even ended up whole um without us knowing but um probably not given but on top of that they've been raising like crazy for the last year they raise a ton of money at super high valuation so they also lost that money too yeah it was like what two billion in the last year yeah they'd raise their actual Capital raise was 2 billion yeah I didn't realize it was that high I think that's right memory I think they've raised billions of dollars collectively well they the one raise was like the meme race that was 420 million 69 000 or something stupid um right but the um I don't know what the cumulative was don't know what they spent the money on I don't know at least block find a sports Stadium is a line of credit right like it wasn't it was an option all right the stadium is paid annually and it's probably eight figures at most um a lot of it's a really big thing with TSM they did do a yep only podcast sponsorship wasn't that expensive uh I like I don't understand where it went so Sam apparently has 660 million of personal uh credit that he was filing bankruptcy for was that accurate I don't even know what's real was that right here yeah I thought that was someone impersonating tier 10K or whatever okay so that was the tier 13 fake one yeah so what about the other um you know character in this whole thing uh CZ I mean do you think he Mastermind this from the very beginning you think he was planning this was this like downfall of my competitor like pure Machiavellian Art of War [ __ ] where he's just like um trying to knock out SPF trying to acquire the assets for cheap and then like maybe now it just got out of hand like it went too far because I can't think that this feels good for binance it was is certainly terrible for the industry I don't know how far this sets us back like back to 2019 2018 2017. I think the question is like did CZ know the ftt weakness in FTX and also Alameda did they know when he started tweeting yeah and what was his plan like did he want this to happen I don't think he I mean he thought he was spoken poking a vulnerable bear and scarecrow that was rotten to the right oh my God I think that's right I think yeah I think he went into like um put them in line might be like luck look what we can do to the sentiment around your exchange like remember who's the boss type thing and then accidentally exposed um a hollow a gigantic hole but like if he did actually Mastermind this like that's kind of crazy that's like one of the most insane um like business chess moves that I guess I'll get to see in real time in my life um but like maybe that's the thing maybe we never get to know I don't think so we always have to we always wonder so we always live in a fear of CZ oh I don't know about cz's side of it but in terms of we'll know a lot about the FTX side of things oh big time oh yeah the uh but yeah the CZ side that's up to CZ and bitboy yeah uh someone should tweet at bit boy get him to con come on I really don't like that guy

### [14:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=890s) BitBoy and SBF / Sponsorships and Accountability

yeah I mean I really didn't like our guests yesterday either so uh Kobe you've never directly interfaced with bit boy right um I spoke to him for the first time ever um do you remember when the lawsuit was happening with a tozy yeah so when he was suing a tosia and then I offered to fund a tozy all right that shows his defense um I emailed bitboy then well that was ongoing before he'd like officially pulled out saying like just want you to know a tozi's in hospital right now his wife's due date is like literally today um so like all this is happening at the time his child is being born um like I will fund him unlimited to take that stress away um and like here is why um like I don't think that you should do this and then he sent me a very thoughtful response and then we've emailed a couple of times since maybe like two or three emails exchanged um the latest one he just asked me like what I thought of the token promotion business model in general like is it even redeemable and I sent him like um short essay about like how I think the token promotion business model is just like only the only people that want the token promoters the token promotions from YouTubers are people that want the price to go up in the short term like you never see like are they going we need to go to like bans crypto banter and get a like a token ad um instead they just built something that worked and um um here's what I think on it and then he made a video which was him basically reading out the email as though it was his own words um which was um yeah I mean I thought it was pretty good that he did it and said like this stuff is bad even though he did that stuff in the past and it owned up to all that stuff but um yeah other than that I've spoke to him maybe three times okay well that's more than that so yeah I mean we just didn't have a full conversation with him yeah we had like an hour other than that yeah we had one email and then we had the show with him yeah I feel like I kind of understand him a lot more after that like I understand like what he is doing in the space and like what his motivations are what is it um I think bitboy really likes attention oh yeah like but I think that that um motivates him in a way that um yeah I don't know maybe money motivates other people he has a background in like internet marketing which I kind of makes sense and I feel like he was like oh this crypto thing I can do internet marketing via viral videos here and then the ethical consequences of what the hell he was doing came up way later and he was probably too far gone in terms of what type of monetization strategies existed so I kind of understand how he got there but I don't understand him per se other than I see what you're saying about from an attention perspective but I don't know I mean I can't connect with it man there's no he could he you should be able to look at those deals and recognize there's no winner with what he was doing with like the token promotions of like you know [ __ ] Jam token you know like it just doesn't you know it's like um he um yeah like I agree with that I think at the end of the day I walked away from that and thinking that like oh I mean bit boy is just kind of like a of regular guy like he's not a devil he's not an angel he's just kind of a he's just a regular guy and one of his comments when we were talking to him was like I just started creating content that my audience wanted right and they wanted to hear about the latest like [ __ ] coin that was gonna Moon overnight and so that's what I gave them and so he was like what's the harm in that I there's demand for a product and I serve it up and like our point is just like yeah but there's a difference between what people want and like what people need and these are noobs and you have like a responsibility if you have a platform of your size um I don't know I'm hopeful he's getting some of that he seemed kind of like actually he came on the episode and he was very um it's a different person right like chastened like I thought we were going to be in the octagon with like a you know WWF wrestler and we weren't he just came on and he was I mean he apologized at one point okay so the most interesting thing Ryan is like our chat right now is we have like 50 people who are like uh a bit boy was right he called out FTX yeah bit boys awesome and then the other half of the chat is like Big Boy's a clown don't ever talk to him again why can we guys talk about something else he posted video today where he was just like zero remorse for the victims and all this was this the one in his bathroom he's like in a bathroom or something he's like wearing this Gucci suit or Batman that's it yeah that's it but he was anyone who wears it's one thing to say like I told you so you're this guy was a scammer I knew it I had proof that's fine but he claimed this like euphoric level Victory and there are no winners here big boy is not a winner here CZ acknowledges that I don't know what cc actually feels but his public stance on it was at least like fair and and reasoned and bitboy's emotions took over the guy cannot control his emotions and he cannot recognize the fact that they're victims based on these outcomes the outcomes from his promotions oh I swam down like the easiest fastest lane with the strongest current that I could to make money I didn't do anything wrong it's like okay it's the same reason that Martin shkreli pisses me off the dude who's like selling pills for 750 a pop because he could it doesn't make it right there's an ethical way to do business and there's an unethical that's your choice that you have to live with as an individual and swimming down the easy Lane for Max profits is in my opinion um not a worthy Choice the theme of 2022 perhaps or at least all those people I don't I don't think he went into token promotion business to like maliciously steal from a lot of people but I think when you're making a lot of money doing a business model that's probably not great for your users it's easy to not acknowledge that while the goings good and maybe even lie to yourself and say like actually everyone's winning the Market's going up everyone's kind of winning yeah there's some losers um but we do good due diligence and we disclose and blah blah so like you know whatever the only comical um the only like really comical part of this for me is that like If instead of having FTX as a sponsor for apparently we just Shield loads of [ __ ] coins and done like token promotions a different [ __ ] token every episode we'd look better now I mean you never know right we look like [ __ ] right now I'm not trying to say we don't like but here's what's crazy it's like um so you guys have had like one sponsor consistently bankless has had like many like we have multiple sponsor slots right a few handfuls and like I'm just like saying it like we do our best to select our sponsor and like our sponsors and we clearly we do not I mean we turn a ton of sponsors away or like we're Shady like you're shady you can't we can't support that but like just law of numbers and crypto I mean you never know and it doesn't have to be a crypto Exchange it could be just like anything somebody wrote some sloppy smart contract code there was like a bridge that was flawed there was some kind of multi-sig that you know was a an attack Vector that we didn't realize North Korea freaking attacked like who knows what could happen and that is um it's just a lot of responsibility well it's the same thing as to like why the hell are we in this industry in the first place we're in this industry because it's an industry about money uh so all sponsors are Downstream of something of that nature uh yeah so there's no way out of that risk no matter what guys the chat's blowing up about um yeah we know SBF retweeted Justin's son we know that that's true you passed the Tweet though is he saying we're figuring out a way to make Tron whatever the rest of them are blah blah holders hole or is he saying they're playing together a solution to create all of FDX um relief basically because he says first time I announcement to stand behind all Tron token holders Tron BTT jst Sun HT holders on FTX we are putting together a solution forward with FTX to initiate a pathway forward so like I don't know is he just saying like we're figuring out with them how to make our own bags good I don't know why SPF would retweet that if it was just about Tron and TRX it only makes sense under the context that Tron and dressing sun is helping does it I don't even know anymore with SPF man uh I don't think Sam's got control of his Twitter account anymore uh you think I think that is in the hands of the company management team

### [24:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=1470s) How do outsiders see the industry? / At what point did SBF know?

yeah crisis do you think Sam had an emergency escape patch plan there's a room my question is SPF On The Run just like everyone else it would be on theme thanks for this industry's freaking nuts like she thought so is mine Ledger what like she was just talking about this so she's like is it dead this time yeah how old are you guys wives lately no yeah I mean my wife thinks it's weird enough that y'all call me Ledger and that they call someone named Jordan Kobe and like she's like what who why do you all do that and then now I'm like well this guy is on the run and he came on the podcast and this guy you definitely know my wife works in the medical field and she hates scarlet and she's like and I was she watched the show for the first time ever for to see that clip um and yeah it's like it's Mayhem I ran into people Pat how are you doing today and I'm like I'm all right like my industry blew up a little bit over the last 72 hours I got that's a little I got totally rugged in terms of what I thought was true and what was actually true um look it's embarrassing it is it's insane like we live in absolute La Land of Total Insanity where the stakes are billions of dollars that very few people can comprehend even the people within the industry apparently even the people that are supposed to be the leaders are freaking morons like taking extraordinary risks the same risks that gains he takes you know he's smarter than them like I would put Kobe in charge of crypto like just Capital C crypto country Kobe can be in charge and he's just a degenerate Gambler that's been doing it since 2013 and survived just like this survival bias survivorship bias so he's damn good at it he's lived through all this out and I'm like put the guy in charge like at least I don't think he's gonna rug everything and steal it all insane I don't know if you read the multi-coin investor letter but they said they had access to the FTX Q2 balance sheet information as part of their ongoing due diligence and they still lost like what 20 of assets like assets under management on the exchange so like can they not read a balance sheet or was the balance sheet wrong like was it like fictional doctored I think not reading a balance sheet is definitely something to be considered that's definitely a possibility yeah like maybe right but if you then write in your investor or we did the due diligence we looked at like the Q2 books and then investors go look at the Q2 blocks there's a gigantic hole it's not gonna look great um but it makes me wonder like were they giving incorrect books or did the problem happen afterwards did the books actually look fine in Q2 um for the books I don't know and if you can have like in the proper Insider information and do like Insider due diligence on FTX bucks and still get rugged by FTX um I mean that's kind of crazy chat said um Kobe did you see that Sam said did come on up only yeah this was on November 7th he said he'd come on up only forever ago that was before uh basically FTX went to zero I think he was interested in talking to CZ because he was real interested in bending the knees before he actually you know and he was saying he'd come on up only you know he's willing to talk saying basically we're not even acknowledging these rumors anymore back to business from the FTX account and it was all sham in the background he's trying to raise six billion dollars to cover the hole Yeah and then like he said to us we got planned into a group chat with him after he said he'd come on um and he was like yeah cool we'll do it today on November 7th maybe November on November 7th or 8th and then we were like great cool do it this time I'll like wake up on time and then we like get to it and it's like oh we're actually gonna have to push it back and then was like the radio silence right it's like right down to the line they were just like lying about it I'm like oh yeah we're just it's gonna be fine I'll go do a podcast and say how everything's fine well that's on theme with 2022 like everyone is like that up until the moment where everyone realizes that you all have to like show confidence until the very last moment I mean but to your point Kopi like so um I just looked at the day um a few hours ago because I couldn't believe it but it's only 11 days ago that Voorhees and SBF had this debate in SPF was lecturing the crypto industry on regulation yeah well Eric well he did a speech in Congress or in I don't know where you go sit in the wooden bit he perches all his people looking at you that work in the government and like they're in like a circle and you're sat there he did that um and he did a speech about how like the financial crisis couldn't have happened because they were like borrowing and like you know re-borrowing and blah blah whereas everything on FTX is like that couldn't happen on FTX and that was last year literally in Congress like you just went and sat there and either a lied to Congress about um all the [ __ ] or all the problems happened afterwards um and maybe it's just like me being naive again and being like why would you go sit in Congress and like intentionally tell lies to like your government um if you just knew they were false it must have happened later on but man I mean we saw this same thing with uh oh I just uploaded uh that sound just went straight to the stream we just saw the same thing with uh three hours Capital where they were like um uh super confident and trying to talk about how like you know a few more liquidations than up only uh and then that was them right and so it's just an insane amount of projection that they have to produce give because confidence right we saw this with Alameda the CEO saying like oh yeah we'll buy all the ftt tokens at 22 you have to produce confidence uh and so it's just like an insane amount of projection that's like required because that's like one of the last bits of ammo that they have left to shoot yeah I'm uh I'm reading this uh this multi-coin um this multi-coin letter so how down bad is multi-coin right now

### [31:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=1880s) Multicoin Capital / Gods of 2021 / Alternate Exchanges

they so they had it was like what 10 of assets under management were affected we're on FDX yeah but then you got to think about a Solana steak the FDX stake the soul coins like the general thesis was like some coins right I saw the actual letter but then the blog post is basically the exact same thing as the letter like the block the one on the Block is accurate um so it should say what the added stuff is but in terms of percentage of everything I wouldn't call them wrecked but like their steak and Solana I mean they haven't sold enough of it for that to not be wrecked it's down tremendously is it crazy to you guys like I you know all of the crypto gods of 2021 I mean I think of like the main ones like it was suzu Kyle Davies it was three hours Capital right and then it was like uh dokwon right and like uh definitely Kyle samani multi-coin like fun of the bunny sister Danny says that was earlier this year that he fell but yeah he was a God in 20 uh 21. um but even people like Andre capronier right I mean he's still kind of active and Phantom all of these things sponsor up only now too really take it and then and then the last one kind of standing was SPF and um I mean where are they now like are there any Gods from 2021 still standing Justice now here's a god before God who's God yeah he's one of the old gods yeah the new gods are dead when did Bible start um 2019 my badge is kind of like casually chilling running a [ __ ] exchange with no kyc just like staying out of the news Cycles I don't even know what like what is by bit that is just like FTX except it's like yellow instead of blue and it's just no not like registered anywhere no identity text no AML kyc no bro don't talk I think it was like I think you could do like two 100 Grand 200 Grand a day if you don't have KFC or something um I don't know I didn't use it because it seemed like kind of dodgy and then um they did a bunch of uh like token launches with like you know like the moon Carl um they helped him launch a token called Caster um which like it sounds like all-time high was on day one and it's just a straight line downwards ever since like it's never made it's just like actually just like a graph of a straight line diamonds um you know what like trying to like figure out what the worst thing in exchange has done if that's the worst [ __ ] they've done maybe they're all right maybe they're one of the better ones I do wonder if um like where do you go now right like FTX at least had the best user experience in my opinion from like the um website and app point of view not from the like you don't have any real money there point of view was that user experience is very bad um but yeah that's the problem binance I find really confusing um coinbase um is like really slow and um like I appreciate the coinbase at this point like for some reason I feel like some sort of like patriotism about coinbase well I've also they have been trying to do cool stuff recently in the last like I guess yeah I'm like more so I think they lost their way a little bit 20 21. we kept raising these on the platform where everyone else was lowering them and like they were not feeding the product that was good for Traders right which was coinbase Pro um they just were doing things that weren't connected to the community like my critique on coinbase is they hired a ton of normies to run a crypto business because they had to scale so goddamn fast and they weren't there weren't enough crypto natives to hire and they needed to hire faster than they could find crypto native so they hired a bunch of normies and like you can't make normies care about crypto so their jobs I get that piece but how come FTX moves so quickly on things I was attracted because they were spending all customer deposits they had a bigger budget yeah I was attracted to platforms and that's why I liked blockfolio when they reached out and wanted to figure out a way to work with them we got rugged on that like blockfolio became FTX app became FTI so we really didn't opt into FTX it just became impossible to say what is the FTX app even but nevertheless um yeah the hilarious thing is we're actually sponsored by FTX us that's our real contract so our real contract is blockfolio Inc right which is right I believe so it's owned by FTX ux yeah apparently I don't know um I'll ask Brett who knows up only did not rug anyone FTX us is completely solvent but right is it blue yeah and if any future banquet sponsors thinkless we're also yeah you know I guess I'm I know for real Ed come back uh so the thing that I liked about it was I could tell a normal person in my life like how do you DCA into crypto right and recommend this way that's not got crazy fees when you're trying to do it um that gives you a reasonable way to swap in and out of Majors doesn't have every [ __ ] coin uh available right away is not 100x leverage I asked Sam and CZ the time we did one versus I mean what a stream I had technical issues naturally but like just in the concept of that and like my biggest question for them is why is your default leverage 20x it's [ __ ] like that is wrong it is 100x then I think the default was 20x and both of them were like it shouldn't be and yet there it was and I don't want to tell a regular person to go to this platform where that's the default that's on by default you're at this tremendous risk and I liked the like Simplicity of connect your bank to an app get it easily have a Robin Hood like experience if you will where the money goes in you do normal things in Robin Hood not they do it well like they can buy weekly options without being accredited uh but it's just insane like make this stuff simpler for just onboarding people to products that aren't Gonna Make You destitute from your bad gambling habits uh yeah I think that's why I I where I think coinbase lost their way a bit around their IPO was that they seem to start making decisions that were based on the share price rather than decisions based on like the previous coinbase ethos um and I think maybe they've gone back to it a bit now like they've like launched some tokens for the first time they've launched like coinbase East which is like a wrapped staked eth um like erc20 which is I think the first token I've ever launched um and they did like d flat D5 front ends all within coinbase right so you can interact with any D5 with clients that's some real Innovation the MPC wallet multi-party computation that's some

### [39:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=2340s) Improving the User Experience for Normies / Wallet solutions

really cool [ __ ] that I think a lot of people don't appreciate yeah um but um for a little while in the middle of last year or maybe even this year they were just like releasing like bottom of the barrel [ __ ] lines that you wouldn't even find on binets right like really really like yeah coinbase Ventures backed uh that doesn't exist anywhere else but here it is the liquid Market here's a token you've never heard of before yeah well I mean so I mean it's hard because like um we need a Fiat on-ramp like we need a crypto exchange at crypto Bank in order to actually like start doing this I think like one thing that's obviously I don't know we've learned this a number of times this year but it's just not leaving your funds on an exchange yeah right so go bankless yeah to actually and that's it look that's a thing that um I mean I know we learned like about gox long time ago but it's just like 2022 has just been that's been hammered into this generation's head like all of the things that have happened we know not to leave our funds on an exchange right yeah but well but that's the other thing is um I do think that you know crypto hasn't done a good enough job making the user experience easy so I still can't tell a norm back to your comment of like Ledger an army getting into crypto you can't be like freaking like and here's a wallet and here's you know uh by this Hardware wallet you know 24 words and if you remember them if you forget them you're dead you lose all of your money like the user experience just hasn't really caught up and so Chrome Ledger Converse uh combo has been rugging me for like a year it's gotten better you know the wallet that impresses me continuously small Scrappy uh maybe good maybe not but from a user experience perspective is Rainbow wallet yeah um yeah it's like I'm talking with Mike modermis next week yeah you need building like look you need to be able to it may not be everybody's preferred thing but you back up your uh wallet to like an iCloud type service or something and you you've uh do the face thing for your authentication and like you're rocking and you're rolling maybe that's your hot wallet maybe you have another way that's more secure whatever like but you need it as easy as some of your mobile apps but you have the self-custody components still involved and I just think they make things easy that it gets hard at times and then you're like having to import your Rainbow wallet to metamask and you know so that you can do a transaction with the same not to cancel the transaction blah blah but it's we need more apps that are trying that right that are really trying to be consumer level so deep irony is if you stored your coins on FDX you lost them know your keys no other coins if you start them in a hot wallet you got your board ape stolen by someone sending you a link on Discord if you bought a hardware wallet they leaked your address to the entire internet so now people can come steal your Hardware wallet and beat you up like there is no good pass the best password to stick everything on binance and go yeah whatever they're the biggest exchange if they go down it's all dead anyway um so I they really wasn't like a good thing and like didn't both Hardware wallets have data breaches or something went wrong with both oh and treasure too I don't know this is where the horcrux method becomes mandatory what's that yeah spray and pray your assets across a number of different oh like centralized oh yeah seven Souls seven places did you not read the books come on man you put a lightning bolt on your head and you're like every kid at the movie theater Ryan were you ever Harry Potter for Halloween uh I was never now you're like yeah another glasses um I'm sad that uh before I realized it yeah let you become bit boy I'm sorry my glasses broke nice glasses Harry Potter oh man he did apologize for that thanks yeah well we kind of made him this event the stream people I come to bank list and say sorry maybe it's cracking maybe kraken's like the last um The Last Hope like they always just seem to be in the background chilling trying to do the right thing they have like the only massive exchange with proof of reserves um like Merkle tree cryptographic well they seem like generally very misaligned I know um Jay power just left um I see uh remains like an advisor or something but um you know facing decent I mean it's just like uh Kraken Gemini Finance coinbase what okay coin oh I didn't even know it gets off of my too far off the bed are we worried about the Winkle V like we go by the travel

### [44:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=2675s) Winklevoss Twins / How many people at FTX knew? / Politicians

traveling band I don't I haven't seen their band playing in a while but they like well you send them you said it once though yeah on Instagram yeah I didn't actually yeah they're in New York love you guys mosh pitting um it's like going to like play gigs for like college kids at least they're not in DC lying to Congress yeah even larger enemy okay the thing is right if if you had like a decent actor go to DC and try and mediate things I'm sure that is a better strategy than like [ __ ] nothing right no one in the industry talks to them we all just try and hide surely a good actor who is being sensible and fighting for the right type of like stuff that the industry needs is a good thing but the worst possible outcome is that the person doing it taking photos with them like taking photos of the head of the cftc and like members of Congress and all this [ __ ] then turns out to be running a Ponzi scheme exchange now they all go this guy made me look stupid at my job we must crush him and return we can't look they like we accepted money from him we can't look like weak and corrupt we now need to like retaliate severely yep surely that's significantly worse than just doing nothing I mean guys he donated 70 million dollars political campaigns you know right customer deposits yeah of customer deposits it may be more than that you know Ryan who apparently was left in the dark and all this Ryan's salaam or however you pronounce it celcus are you talking about no no no no number two at FTS just think of Sam think of the absolute opposite and that's Ryan so I'm getting an IV as a hangover cure and in Miami like a like frat boy type of guy all right um apparently he was left in the dark and all this but he was profiled as well as Sam because his spouse is running ran for congress I don't know if she won or not um but he donated like 25 million dollars to Republican causes he was like a top five Republican donor while Sam was a number two or whatever Democratic donor they're both from FTX they both like whether Ryan I don't it doesn't appear that Ryan is care it really seems like a very small number of people at FTX were aware of this like I've had employees reach out to me like I'm in the dark they're helping me with support tickets for people trying to get money off FTX us it's crazy but Ryan was also a large contributor to Republican cause they were some of the biggest players in this world of politicians giving money on both sides it's not good all right let me ask you guys like a crazy like uh Joe Rogan type of question here is like what are the chances that you do a Joe Rogan voice yeah I can't what are the chances that this like SPF was a plant I mean all this to your point Kobe seemed like so scripted all right like this whole industry is crypted the wrong simulation where did he come from I mean he rises from nowhere 2018 2019 builds he did come from nowhere the fastest growing Exchange in the world how did he go from zero to what like 22 billion dollars how did that happen how did he infiltrate DC and become like the spokesperson for [ __ ] for crypto and D5 right and now after he's earned the trust of all the politicians the whole thing turns out to be smoke and mirrors right like industry wrecked like I don't know what happens in the wake of this is there like any chance in your minds that there's something it's something the only thing that adds credibility to it is these parents are like deeply right hey turbo um his parents yeah and like his mom like created like some like get out to vote Coalition or some [ __ ] um which means his mum's Hillary Clinton and foreign you know like I think it's like probably not true but I thought that oh God it was probably not true that they were insolvent so what is reality anymore CIA so I think it's much more likely that he had a really fast growing exchange okay okay maybe it's this he had an exchange it was really fast growing totally by like a mix of like luck and aggression like you know if you're willing to trade customer deposits maybe you're willing to be a bit more aggressive on stuff that other people aren't and like that sort of insanity or psychopathy um translates into like business success um at some point he [ __ ] up and had this hole in the balance sheet but like you can't tell your parents can you they'll be so disappointed that they're [ __ ] up really badly so he's like political Elite parents are going like you should go to Congress and you should talk you should donate to these guys yeah they were telling them never getting crypto in the first place yeah like yes Mom yes Dad I'll definitely do that and like in the back of his mind it's like [ __ ] I like all he wants to do is make his parents proud you just can't tell them that he's got and that's why it's snowballed out of control because he was mummy issues how old do you think SBF is possible how old he's under 30 right like 29. must be about 30. he's exactly 30 years old he's born in March 1990. um How old is vitalik 28. did you see the Tweet I've metallic person it made me so sad so he like um replied to someone about like sbf's net worth plummeting to like 900 million yeah and vitalik replied and just said that is much more than that is still much more than I have and that was the only words of the tweet and I was like

### [51:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=3070s) Effective Altruism / Responsibility

yeah his net worth is 95 to a billion dollars one billion dollars this is SPF now I don't really know what effective altruism means but I feel like vitalik embodies that much more means I've read the book I read the book when I was in university or maybe after University went in my early 20s or something um and parts of it are like extremely enticing and I could understand the attraction to the book right because it tells you stories about um uh certain charity initiatives throughout history that were basically completely ineffective and it gives us the example of something called the water wheel which was a apparently in the Bush Administration ERA this huge um uh popular initiative to like help um like poor countries in parts of Africa have access to clean water um and they went and they removed loads of these hand pumps these water hand pumps and they put these like um like these big wheels that you push around in um but it turned out if you pushed the wheel constantly for 24 hours you've got about 18 hours worth of water because this wheel was like completely ineffective and um like they hated using this wheel it was like demoralizing and degrading it was like a playground item to push around um but all of the uh like I think it was the first lady was like all in on this initiative going and like taking photos with these water wheels saying look we're saving um we're saving the poor countries like a merry-go-round yes something chapter said we're saving the poor countries but in practice they were just burning money making things worse and not helping and that was an example of like ineffective altruism where people get excited by how by the cause of like I'm going to look so great solving this problem that like is emotional and another example is like plastic in the ocean where it's everyone's favorite topic so there's so much money being poured into it that it becomes like used ineffectively and the most effective like reduction of suffering was really unsexy stuff like deworming of children um in like parts of the world where like if you dewormed kids uh like there was a 50 increase in people classic passing school and then that policy paid for itself within three years because the tax dollars from the people that were going to the workforce from this initiative would then pay itself off um and there's this box that like kind of says so you should focus on like impact with doing good you shouldn't focus on what feels good you should focus on like actual reduction of suffering but the book The book gets a little bit strange in that will ask her the guy who writes it uses this like logic to go into the argument that actually therefore the best way you can reduce suffering is to go work at Goldman Sachs steal everyone's money and use that money in the most effective ways for reducing human suffering because if you go work I haven't heard a charity you're doing a small amount whereas if you steal or if you acquire multi-billions and then use them really effectively you're actually reducing human suffering by a lot more with your life with your like um with your time because you're good at making money in Wall Street exactly you make money and then you use that really effectively not blowing up in the process and yeah and like that is a that's exactly what that's the Playbook SPF read this book and ignored all the bits about like human suffering and was like okay gotta make 30 billion dollars um to reduce human suffering by stealing everyone's money great let's go um but genuinely it's it's quite a good book um the uh the whole effect of altruism was like Guillotine insurance it's like oh yeah you just liquidated all of the industry but you have this Banner of effective are you talking about you're talking about for SPF espresso yeah you're not talking about like effective altruism like conceptually I'm like a big fan I mean that makes sense well I got it it's malaria deworming like Yeah well yeah I refuse to except that process doesn't matter right like I think like how you make the money do you mean yes I think process matters if you say like there's a like Biblical reference if you give someone a dollar and what do they do with it you give someone a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars what do they do with it s shekels or something but you know what I'm saying like what you do with the dollar is going to reflect what you're gonna do with a thousand of them or a million of them and if you say like I will do good work just give me lots and lots of money in whatever the way is possible and then I'll do good with it you need to do good along the way you need to show that you can be responsible with the resources that you've been um entrusted with along the way to then be entrusted with the resources when they're larger I refuse to believe that just get it all while it's hot in whatever way possible and then do good later you just won't yeah yeah no I like that a lot yeah I do agree that it it's like he sort of I think he read this book called doing good better and then sort of used it as a shield as like I can't be evil because look at what I'm doing on the other side and like took the like most perverted just like the most perverted way you can read the book and go okay that makes me a good person that justifies the stuff I'm doing because that book says it's the like best way to reduce human suffering or whatever um I reckon uh the dude that wrote that box in complete shambles he's like his life Alive's work it's like been made of mockery I mean SBS would be because of SPF yeah he was his personal advisor for a bit oh wow any guy that wrote the book wow you know the dude that was texting Elon on his behalf was the dude who wrote the book so like SPF was a poster child for the effective altruism is what every article was about that's like the Paul PR strategy was effective yeah and I mean anything that was like actually decent in that book is just like wrecked Now by association I think David was uh you were always skeptical and I used to give you yeah I was like all right I used to be like but like he hasn't said he'd do it right now he's still in kind of the phase Kobe you were talking about earlier where he's like a Goldman Sachs making all the money right and I'm like David you can't call him out on not giving it away yet because it's always been a strategy to make the most money possible and then to give it away later right but you're always super convenient like process to go back to Ledger's point is like yeah you need to do good with one dollar and then do good with ten dollars them because you get to pre-mind all the glory right when we were talking about this on the weekly roll up I was like yeah I also plan to commit to not give away 99. 5 I will also do that 10 seconds before I die Jack from Twitter kind of did this like he didn't laugh about it in advance he actually did it he actually did that well you don't remember it was a couple years ago he transferred like half of his wealth into an entity that would give oh yeah like grants away and he picked the causes and there's like a API that you can or an RSS feed or something you can pull and if you go look at it just every few days he's like we gave two million dollars here and like they're all they all look great this is the Cardinal I laugh about all the time and put it on posters around this is the cardano problem right like Jack just did it was news for a day and then it was done the cardano thing is like yeah we're gonna have Smart contracts contract we're gonna have smart right we're gonna have Smart contracts and then it's like so disappointing if and when they ever occur but you talked about it all that time you implanted it in their minds versus the person that just does it it's forgotten like you said that I had to be reminded that Jack was just actually alternating you're right it's kind of the way it should be but by the way speaking of Charles uh you know he popped up in my timeline earlier today I'm so sorry yeah he said this is his comments on things um just on some twid uh some thread criticizing SPF and um somebody tweets out and he says uh at least you found the real villain before you can give uh Charles Hodgkin's in credit for being actual good billionaire calling Charles an actual good billionaire and Charles jumps in it's really amazing the level of bile and criticism that I've gotten throughout the years been almost 10 years waiting on the great Charles Hoskins and criminal Scandal but please tell me all about Laura's new book you know for Charles it's always uh it's always about Charles I think didn't no one expected a child's criminal Scandal did they no because that would mean that he would actually do something well I mean he does things David they had a great yeah it was an official statement from huobi um that they will help TRX holders on FTX with one to one can anyone find this one to one so that means if you migrate for TRX orders apparently well from this oh thank God the TRX holders get bailed out fantastic wait TRX holders Tron

### [1:01:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=3668s) TRX / Tron / Justin Sun

holders if you have TRX on SPF all right sorry on FDX SPF everything's a [ __ ] abbreviation all right RSA um I can't see any official statement about it but is that the thing that um Justin's son was I'm excited about oh my God have you seen the picture of Justin's son's face Photoshop front of Superman saving a baby um that was posted by The huobi Exchange in response Justin Justin's own exchange was he was like put my face on clock and the baby is always not a baby like a toddler or something but the toddler looks really uncomfortable you gotta admit in terms of interviews we've done we've never given God we've never given somebody so much direct heat and they just roll with it and he's like that's Justin's son yeah and then you guys have talked to Justin's son yeah he was amazing yeah he was incredible he was amazing Kobe was like he was confronting him about sleeping with someone's wife or something like that Justin's like do you remember the song how did you know about this no there was this Saga and it was the May 2021 crash where there was this rumor that they were trying to liquidate someone was trying to liquidate Justin's son and chain because he'd slept with their wife so it's like some crypto whales wife and Slayer Justin so something and this is rumor it was like obviously just like a meme rumor that someone came up with um but he came on and we like asked him about it quite early on in the show and he was just like laughing and was like yeah it's true yeah written wired had written this like 10 000 word article some journalists spent two months on this and Justin's son quote tweets it and it's like LOL what is like he just it's the full Embrace of the stupidity of our space and he just makes billions guys Prince ethereum clone makes billions keeps his billions the 20 in 2018 I thought like Justin's son was like the peak scammer like they were a scammer this industry and now the scammer of this industry yeah and I'm like this guy I mean he seems like an angel no one truly hates him and I think it's not just because it was like like it it's like the time the time since your transgression is long enough people don't care right like CZ was the biggest villain in crypto for such a long time in like it's the victim of my day it's the victimless crime totally yeah and dressing son were working together like kind of in the back alley to do token promotion stuff on finance right like the Tron white paper was like parts of it was just copy pasted of the ethereum white paper side yeah um and you know like did an Ico raise billion dollars or however many however much um and then just chilled but because like he's now just chilling and having a nice time people just go oh that was ages ago he doesn't need to scammers anymore and he's kind of entertaining he's like well he's we've also completely redefined to a much worse degree what a scammer is like the scammers have gotten worse they've got they've gotten worse yeah well is it isn't Justin's son like he's like a huge like whale right I mean defy whale dude I still subscribe to his wallet I'm gonna find it right now all right doesn't he like rumor is I think I'm sorry Ryan how old do you think Justin's son is um I'm looking at the Superman photo he's looking pretty good pretty young I'm gonna I'm also gonna say uh 30. so far also right like he yeah he did like a he did an Ico for some chain which is just an ethereum clone and is not super um like it's not remarkably interesting to me it's a copy pasted white like the white paper was copy pasted the chain whole thing yeah but then like you know they moved to proof of stake and they did a bunch of stuff and then their fees are always insanely low he kept working it this whole time and now it's like the biggest chain for like tether or something USD payments yeah so they like actually carved out a niche and create a bunch of values and it's like well you know yeah if you build something of value even if the beginnings of it were not um incredibly honorable people forget is that actually a scam yeah you kind of grew into legitimacy he uh his default his main defy wallet it only has like 250 million in it now but it had like a billion plus two billion three but I don't know it doesn't he have more Ethan vitalik yes he does oh yeah he's unbelievably wealthy more Ethan Vitality multi-billionaire know that because the talk only gives away money he doesn't earn anymore Justin's a multi-billionaire on channel pre-mind well just on channel also Justin's also quite good at trading I don't know if you like followed his like macro directional stuff but he generally buys the bottom and sells close to the top um like he sold all of his ethereum at like four um around this time last year yeah that'd be nice when we follow his wallets David and when we talked uh this is this bear work is the first time I've actually bought bottoms well you don't know yeah it's like yeah 8. 97 I feel pretty damn good yeah that's not bad so um yeah Justin was came on the show and he was talking about his D5 movements and his liquidation he's like oh I was actually asleep when that was going on I was like well you had a thousand dollar margin at risk because he was like farming crap left and right he's like yeah that's when I hired somebody to actually make sure that I'm like managing stuff because before that it was just managing billions on like Leverage defy yield Farms YOLO and the crap out of the whole thing so fun fact uh Tron is now worth more than Solana foreign I mean what's the price of Salon I haven't looked at the price I have I am now uh chill with Solana where previously I was less not no tron's number 16 number 13. FTV or not I'm on a queen gecko sorry guys I'm Boomerang price of Solana too holy crap in three and a half four and a half hours Salon is gone a low of 11 46 to 15 12. 10 to 11 11. where are you looking I don't know let me see it's kind of crazy that Tron and being beer also yeah I have to change all my trading view stuff they're all FTX anymore they're it's literally fake Internet money over there screw you Sam like honestly you gotta make me change my trading views watch industry has to re reconfigure itself yeah trading view come on make the indexes we need more indexes

### [1:08:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=4110s) Solana

uh Solana gonna get hit harder I think some unlocks coming yeah I thought somebody came in and did like they changed some delegator thing today did I wasn't okay so when Pharaoh's Capital got liquidated that was the bottom like it was the bottom within like 24 to 48 hours of the big news like spreading throughout crypto Twitter and everyone uh being worried about contagion oh contagion's coming contagious coming turns out now the bottom was right then and there so like that's if we're going to repeat that like I'm not a Trader but like my gut take is that the bottom of the prices is going to be happening the day of the worst news which is FTX being insolvent don't tell me you're not a Trader you I gotta go to our direct messages trusts list is he giving trading advice I was like I was good at trading on the way up it was like on Tuesday it's one of my most severe regrets because at the time I actually had a bunch of money on binance us where Matic existed right and my DM February 15 2021 I do not want to time to stamp the price all caps Matic and I was like screw you I was like what is this is 20 cents at the moment or I think that's 11 11. 11 cents I like stopped out at 10 cents or something I was like all right David let's roll baby stop out at 10 cents goes two dollars was mad I was really mad at you sorry buddy yeah anyway I forget what I was trying to bring up there bring back pain David uh you are a Trader man you called the um you called a Solana bottom I think on our Tuesday live stream that's what you're talking about remember what that was I did that doesn't sound like it yeah I just I re-listened to that part of the episode um good for me the problem was problem Anna is that you still have all these like liquidity issues people that can always fall back on what they have vesting in Solana to just get rid of it and you have the three dollar I'll buy all you want meme which is strong right like very strong those things they gotta be magnets right totally and I think so I think Solana is like very well positioned to be the eth of the last cycle because like Ethan last cycle had all this Ico cell pressure like at a mountain of Ico cell pressure never mind consensus and Joe Lubin and that's Solana of this cycle where they have all of the insane investor lockups and just the dumpage from FTX and all these things three dollars this is exactly 99 off the top and you know that's going to be juicy in some ways you've got to imagine that um the Solana Founders feel very Bittersweet about this FTX stuff because obviously they you know it's horrible for the industry and um like bad for them reputationally because Solana was kind of like the Sam coin the samcoin that enabled all other Sam coins um in a way it was the uh like Sam was sort of the poster boy for Solana yeah the OG Sim coin but at the same time the removal of that narrative can only be good for Solana in the future right like right and it started a while back if you're in three years and like you still have FTX looming overview as Sam leaning over you as the like the biggest thing about your chain yeah this just like removes it as a problem for them and sure maybe there's a lot of FDX owned Solana that needs to get sold and maybe it was you know all that stuff and there's maybe ongoing um reputational damage but at least it's like out of the way it's behind you and you can move on and like Solana can do its own thing and like try and build its own sort of um future without being like cross-pollinated with FTX and SPF stuff it's one of the biggest bits of fight of soul is the concentrated ownership by all the ABCs so if we can get it out of their hands it's the same thing as like ether back with all the ice concentrated Ico ownership what has what has more multiples upside with eth-like development mode then Solana especially if you get it three bucks right three to Thirty is a 10x that's a thousand to ten thousand dollar each where we're gonna be like our eyeballs are gonna be bleeding all four of us if each goes to ten thousand like we're just gonna be unbelievably euphoric so okay so that's Solana three to three to Thirty is the same thing so when you're looking at that relative pair if you get three dollars you just you just Buckle in and you buy Solana at three dollars right like I don't so uh when ether capitulated down to eighty dollars that was a eight billion dollar market cap for ethereum Solana right now is at a five and a half billion dollar market cap I touched five earlier today uh so we're already like if you want to compare these things uh one cycle apart like we're all right this one is almost like half of what ether was last cycle I'm not saying this a lot of potential yeah it's highs of life cycle with much higher than Salinas highs of this cycle though right like if life cycle went crazy because of the Ico stuff but it was like very deeply used for something and it was used for something for the first time and like maybe that thing was an illegal fundraising platform but it was like there's private Market fit for smart contract chains here to do something um whereas um like the proof of proving point for Solana is like what the price went up a lot and like yeah I mean personally for like for me I I've never been uh bullish on Solana like probably you know to my uh like uh you know would have been nice to buy three but um there is a price at which I am bullish on Solana what price but it's for me it's not this for me it's closer to three not ten it's not 15. like so right now Solana 2 another way to look at it is it's off 94 from all time high which is basically what eth traced last uh yeah last cycle right down uh 94 I still think it's got a ways to draw it before this is fully washed out it's a big yellow box on my chart from three to four which was the high of uh 22 September 2020. yeah it's basically the whole Gap up from Sam coin Fame yeah I mean that really propelled it that was Rocket Fuel and so we gotta go back sometimes we have to go back we gotta go back before we can go forward yeah I think it's the coin of Last Resort for too many people still I think that's fair but it is I do agree though David

### [1:15:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=4545s) Network Effects, DeFi / How many years did SBF set the industry back?

like you know it does have an ecosystem of Builders right there's something in real Community that's Network effects Network affects the most powerful thing in crypto bitcoin's actually draining Network effects right now and eth and Solana are building them Salon is building them faster than eth is the dominant has the dominant Network effects in the ecosystem uh Bitcoin Community is divided once again bitcoin's got big problems man Bitcoin has got big problems that's for sure yeah yeah Mom we've all got big problems okay well actually you know being in ethereum D5 for all of 2022 has felt like the world is just ripping apart around me and all my little eth friends are on this tiny little like Oasis you've been watching ethereum D5 Oasis and Oasis we went straight downwards for the previous like two and a half years well yeah everything else broke Kobe like every time you're talking about defy token price which is dead no no I'm talking about just like The Ether that I have in the apps that I have it in it's like yeah the price is going down but they're still functioning as design when Ethan meanwhile Solana is halting meanwhile FTX is insolvent meanwhile three hours Capital like nuked everything and so like yeah like we're down bad in correlation with the market but like I still have my ether you're the only person I know this has ether I've been saying ether since eight one yeah but you are right I am one of the few people that says that yeah I say it surprises me that Heath is down relative to BTC this week like it doesn't feel that way because just the relative price of bitcoin's been dancing in the 1516 case and eth is over a thousand dollars it just feels stronger but it's actually down on the week feel like if we were back in last cycle uh the fact that each BTC is performing so well is very independent for ethereum strength yeah exactly eighth is down 76 percent uh all-time high Bitcoin is down uh 77 percent that is insane I mean it makes sense now because I believe in ethereum's fundamentals but like if you compared this to last cycle that was unheard of kobus and his mind drafting tweets from his Bitcoin Maxi alt account are you still a Believer I might actually all account for a while I've got a hundred thousand followers now it's my favorite thing to write I'm beloved and beloved in my community somebody Kobe who was it that did the Tweet of like Kobe wakes up and picks up his mask for the day and puts it on like it's the truest tweet I've ever seen of you yeah for a little while I'd uh um oh like a lawyer account where I was commenting on the giant app Amber Heard defamation lawsuit just making stuff up got quite a lot of followers on that one as well I mean Twitter's um I don't know man like I think like this whole like whoa is Solana the good bet for next cycle is like like how's everything doing etc etc it's just decisions you don't need to make now like you can think about it now if you're bored like if you want to spend your time thinking about that stuff and make a plan for however long in the future um like fair enough but I think just like reevaluate it when the time is right like I think in the last two three years the optimal strategy was like find a thing that's going up the most and Chase it okay like okay so Mike seems to go up quite a lot Solana seems to go quite a lot and then it just kept it kept out performing everything for the entire cycle and then it was over and then there was some stuff that didn't go up very much and it underperformed the entire cycle and like you probably couldn't have guessed what they were three years prior to that um so just like wait and see so much stuff can change between now and then um and stuff I heard they have physical things a lot had a significant percentage of money on uh FTX are we I think they both just discredited that rumor both Labs there's a good rumor though you probably started that um the could you imagine this Kobe starting and ending rumors with his own alts yeah I made up a rumor that Caroline used to date Sam um as a joke okay when it spread like [ __ ] wildfire and then someone said it in a group chat and I was like no that's not true I made it up and then someone was by no actually is true and it actually just turned out to actually be real yeah that's amazing Jesus Kobe just opens up Pandora's Box and can't get the rumors back in how many uh how many months of winter did SBF set us back I love that yeah all of 2023 all of 2023. well I mean months can be I mean there could be more than 1000. yeah it 12. you could I think it's quiet but I think it's probably several years 24 months I'm asking specifically what SPF you think added to the crypto winter yeah seventh edition added several years oh yeah I am he was he was the poster boy of Trad yeah like it's not just DC crypto moving even if he wasn't like you know the person um uh uh like pushing for that he'd sort of become this like he'll be the most recognizable crypto face to a lot of um uh politicians Regulators uh Etc I think um and he went and blatantly lied to their face um it seems or told them something um yeah like told them something and then like had the same problems later and made the same mistakes later like or just lie to my face let's go with the lie to their face um as he did to everyone else only days ago um but if he lied to their face they won't welcome whoever else with open arms they're not going to go oh these people have like you know good intentions good faith um just like discussions with us they're just gonna say like their mindset for several years now if it wasn't already is gonna be um these people uh I was just lying to us and trying to pull the ball over our eyes um and they're not going to care about the distinction between like a centralized exchange operating as a bank and you know a fully transparent um Unchained self-custody um you know protocol yeah they're just not going to care about the difference they're just going to say like that's all the same thing to me that's crypto um and that is very bad and the like the guy that donated hundreds of millions to us um was also um doing like the worst possible thing um plus if you think about um the amount of people who will have lost money there the amount of people that will have narrowly avoided losing money there um the amount of builders that will have treasuries there so like you know how many projects are secretly dead now because they've lost everything and we don't know yet um how many industry participants will have had a relationship with Alameda and FTX that their business is now significantly worn down but not gonna affect that all these people lose their jobs um because the their businesses go they go out of business um and the progress you need in uh you know Innovation or like building or Whatever Gets significantly um delayed because of uh because of that um so trust is down like actual progress in the industry um is moved backwards um and not just from like Mount gox being like it's kind of like you use the exchange it feels like it's kind of broken and you know it's like this like overseas thing it's not like you know and then it's operating at a time of like Silk Road being the biggest like Bitcoin app um so like it makes sense that goes down it's the Wild West Sam was pretending not to be like the opposite of that he was like where the people are getting our ship together trying to look I guess as coinbase looks um a little bit but like cozying up maybe more to um uh traditional power structures um so I think it's like uh well probably smaller industry-wide impact than Mount gox um much worse timing and probably much worse knock-on um effects if like an exchange dies really early it's like you know no one knows how to do custody yet people don't know what's going on if it dies like after 10 years after Mount gox went down um it's uh right I think that trust is harder to repair it's bigger or smaller than if tether itself fell um don't say that oh much yeah okay and it depends how tether would fall like if it came out that tether had four billion unsecured to Alameda that I can't get back and there's like you know um a five percent I don't know how much the market cap of tether is but let's say there's a five percent haircut on all tether assets or something then um I think that's not the end of the world if it's like you know oh tether's backed by nothing but like that would obviously be like catastrophically large um several years I think it's several years I have a couple things to add I guess if you know uh if it's several years guys we're all gonna need new sponsors we'll sponsor up only if uh up only sponsors bankless how about that bro we can print free money that way a lot of people don't know that I'm pleasure um what do you add yeah a couple of things that I think are just worth noting there is I think the VC Market just went on major ice um you know I run a i co-run a startup and uh everything uh it's flip. xyz Flip Flip XYZ thank God we have Runway right but like we don't have infinite Runway nobody almost nobody has infinite Runway every single company with anywhere from whatever Runway they have three months to 36 months I don't care what it is they're thinking how can we survive and this is the the the willingness of the VC Market to go take risks at this point in that way is low so you got to figure a whole different dynamic it's all the metrics that you used to think mattered don't matter it's new metrics it's new baselines it's new demands this is not the startup Market this is the money's Market the money the liquidity is at a premium and that is going to impact projects big and small I mean the way you're describing this is um order of magnet and this kind of was hitting me today of how much larger this is than anything we've seen this year um this is bigger than carrier's Capital yeah in terms of legitimacy for the space and those froze to space for months yeah I mean this is bigger than no Quan's I'll go stablecoin uh this is the ranking of criminals dokwon actually probably comes with the Bottom now like all he did was build something that made no sense yeah he was and I was extremely confident was the happy idiot right well maybe maybe he was very aware it made no sense and was doing a lot far in the background who knows but like it seems like SBS is by far the worst and then three hours is probably the next worst because it's somewhat similar to FTX but without customers I mean spf's going to jail right so this is the thing that's going to happen I mean I hope so as well but like you deserves political Elite lawyer parents and donated a lot of money to politicians so I think one of the reasons why this is so much worse is that it's just the next one like the one that's after um Terra Luna is going to be worth in Terra Luna that was three orders Capital the one that's after three hours capital is gonna be worse and it always Stacks because it's just like another shot to the heart like E2 Brutus like you too Sam uh and so like at this point we were joking when we started the live stream today it's like it feels like the final season of The Game of Thrones of crypto blow-ups but then my mind goes like all right what could be next I don't see much more but I don't think you know completely know that until after the fact did you think after FDX would blow up no and no so climax like if cucline had gone down I would have been like that kind of makes sense to me but like but that's right like who's left after FTX this has to be this I mean there has to be the final blow up we had Tara Luna we had three AC we had Celsius we had the good actors Celsius everyone keeps forgetting about them yeah we had the good actors of like block five right like the ones caught up but significant now we have FTX we don't know what the hell it is we have the people that are the collateral damage of FTX but FTX in my opinion was the climactic finish of the blow-ups if vitalik turns out to be a scammer then I'm just raging space I'm out I'm going aggressive yelling sailor like Sailors sailor can get liquid it's a slow fit it's a slow bleed finish like it's a multi-year which could happen right like a crypto winner he can't service the loans I mean but what about tether you were talking about tether Ledger do you think that's over I mean yeah I mean tether tether's Mount gox level I don't know but I think FCX was found Ox level FTX well but okay here's a tweet from um I mean I wasn't here in the mount Cox days I came a little bit after but um Dan McArdle was uh he now works at uh Masari he started massari with selkus a comp uh Mount gox blow up that was 6. 5 of market

### [1:31:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=5485s) Comparing this impact to other events / Mentality moving forward

cap total crypto market cap FDX blow up 0. 8 percent market cap less than a percent yeah but like you're talking total crypto market cap right which the majority of is fake because that includes like oxy and serum and the bags that Alameda have borrowed against that's not real like um like it that's what I mean that's what I meant earlier when I said like it's much smaller in terms of scales and mount gox I think the Dow hack was like 30 of all ethereum or something right yeah um we don't have [ __ ] on that scale anymore because funds are way more spread out but the impact of this is going to be I think much bigger than like either the Dow hack or Mount Cox or the bitfinex hack or right there's a lot of intangibles like that's market cap is one thing but legitimacy is legitimacy sized is massive is there any Silver Lining here are you guys planning to say why are you guys playing are you planning to stick around we don't know well like I've been doing this for 10 years man it's like part of my identity it's like third of my life what else am I gonna do third just a third why so low well because I'm old as [ __ ] what's the other two thirds of your life Kobe well the first 10 years I was a kid oh sorry I thought you meant like he's like I thought yeah you spend one third of your daily time doing crypto I'm like you're doing two-thirds of your time not crypto stuff I mean my entire life um yeah I don't mind like it it feels to me a little bit like um like my mental model of the crypto industry goes back quite a long way goes like moves backwards in time quite a long way because I like I was always very paranoid and like skeptical of everything and like every exchange is going to die every coin is going to go to zero um like it's all [ __ ] um the only thing that is important is Bitcoin right like Bitcoin is like this like um almost pure uh thing that has not been like perverted by um Market participants or whatever um and then like ethereum came along and then ethereum was like a legal GoFundMe for 2017. um and I was like I don't know if that feels um super great either surely there can be something more important than just doing a legal fundraisers and then D5 started to kick off and I was like okay cool this is the turning point for the industry like there's real stuff happening um here like people are building important products that are better than their centralized counterparties right like it's actually a better product um and then these like venues started popping up that had good user experiences for the first time and they felt like a safe like product to use for the first time and um like actual institutional money was in the space and like backing people that seem to know what they were doing and my mental model of the crypto industry switched to like oh it's grown up a little bit not a lot it's still obviously completely stupid but it um it's not the Wild West anymore it's not all just like shambolic um nonsense and um like whack-a-mole exchange uh life but turns out it's exactly the same in my mind it like if people are just like printing like fake money borrowing against the fake borrowing real money against fake money stealing user deposits and the exchange dies exactly the same as it did 10 years ago and periodically throughout those 10 years um and the only real difference is now like there are some things that are genuine products that are kind of cool um so I like try and focus on that stuff a lot more um uh to remain optimistic about that stuff like building uh um protocols and platforms where like the sensor resistant that allow self-custody um allow you to like own your own stuff rather than having to rent it from um a bank or a crypto bank or whatever um stuff like that is getting built and it's important token prices of it all sucks like the some of the most important and useful things were the worst performers over the last few years um but um those things are kind of cool right and like someone will build or maybe already has built it if it's like dydx or GMX or all those other ones like versions of FTX that don't require you to give your money to some dude um and um like that stuff's important I think and that stuff uh is will remain interesting and you just got to see how much of that happens because a bull market comes around people forget about that stuff people stick take shortcuts again and um uh and like focus on the money rather than like the point of everything um and like every single bear Market I've been through at the around this time one year from the top or two years from the top by the way today's like basically exactly one year from the top on the dock um it's one year since Barry tweeted it's gonna be a big week and it was a big week it was the top um but like one year or two years from that every single time it feels like it's [ __ ] it feels like okay it's like there's no coming back from this one like it's actually [ __ ] over this time it always feels like that and you feel it like viscerally for a few months um and then it washes out things go sideways for a while the world doesn't explode and um you can start to like people can start to rebuild um so yeah who knows I think my take on that interpretation of uh this last bull market is like oh we found some legitimacy and that oh we've discovered defy we just discovered some real things that solve some real problems uh and then the bull market started and then crypto started to like return to its roots and return to what it was familiar with from previous bull cycles which was like fork and fair launch launcher token and just get more degenerate right and so we start with legitimacy at the very beginning of a bull market because that's what triggers the bull market in the first place and then as the bull market goes on like the collective IQ just goes lower and lower until the way back where we are back in like 2013 where we're just like forking Bitcoin 17 times uh and that's probably maybe if you carry that forward that's how like the next bull market will start we'll build something real some new Innovations will come we'll build out through this bear Market uh and then we'll just like go back we'll Benjamin Button it and just go backwards into just like adiq food coins and that'll be the top it's 80 low or high IQ probably high I'm prepared for next cycle it'll probably be still pretty high yeah Ledger what about you are you gonna stick around I'm gonna take your advice your wife's advice and like I don't know what she's telling you to do if she's like she's okay with me being in this space I don't know if I'm okay with me being in the space really like has this been pretty like shaking for you it's not just crypto but what we consistently learn is life man this life like everyone's an idiot like we need rational actors there's no where are the rational actors I don't understand how is there not an adult in the room the adults get crowded out by the children and the children don't deserve the power but they have the power they're the populists they're the um irrational Risk Takers they're the ones that don't deserve the keys but they've end up capturing the power of the keys and it pisses me off like from a crypto perspective I fell in love with the idea of a trustless and programmatic blockchain Bitcoin took a while to connect for me but ethereum connected with me right away because it was trustless at least in my naive eyes at the time programmatic blockchain and we saw that come to some real fruition with D5 summer and that changed everything for me to where I was starting to get dejected after a few years of your Trading coins that are supposed to have decentralized Concepts on centralized exchanges to you can actually do things on chain and even nfts really clicked with me in that regard of you're doing things on chain you're taking control of the programmatic elements of a public blockchain and I can see through the jpegs and into the D the 721 represents and what that can become 10 years from now or 20 years from now and those things excite me and then the freaking monkey brains take over again and they throw [ __ ] all over the place and they make a mess and then like hopefully some adults clean it up when it's all done and it's in the next bear and then their bags underperform all the dog [ __ ] that gets spread out over the next Bull cycle and it's like it's depressing so yeah it's like a thankless job not that I've participated well in it like I've been one of the monkeys um but it's a thankless job to like Express the reasons why you should be here I mean people are in the chat are talking about how Andreas is who they admire he's not taken like the full um by the horns stance of profitability he's taken the moral High Road along the way and very few of those really shine and last the reward is in the Quick Fix and hope you jump off the train right in time before it implodes in the next cycle and we got to get past that stuff to True Value and I haven't seen that and it pisses me off and I would like to see that and we have I don't think we've really seen it yet and you know this is only two cycles for me it's a second cycle where it ends in some pretty tremendous disappointment like the climactic finish of who are these always happens yeah but who are these children and where are the where's the good stuff we need the good stuff I need we need the real change not the dog coins and not the jpegs and not the Clone coins and the scammers and the [ __ ] and the criminals running off on the private planes like we need the builders and the change makers and they're not being rewarded or incentivized to be the good things and we need them to be able to show up to be rewarded to show up and we need them to take control and do something and I haven't seen that yet that's disappointing every you don't have any yeah kids right I have two kids you have two kids uh right here yeah they're both nft Founders uh Ryan's got three kids do you guys kids like the presence of your kids like impact how you think about the degeneracy in this industry yes for I mean for me it impacts how I think about like the future like I mean the reason I'm like the reason I'm in crypto is because um I believe in what we're building you want to do the maximum public good yeah effective altruism I guess I don't know it was the poster of SPF the reason I'm in crypto is to do the maximum political is that what he really says God there's like a poster there's like from the streets in San Francisco yeah I mean but like but this is the problem it's the Alex machinski is saying um you can't trust the banks right like I'm on a t-shirt or the SPF saying I want to do the maximum public good I mean this is the problem so I've been asking uh you

### [1:44:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=6240s) Incentives and people in power / NFTs / Parsing out what is valuable

know people lately have been in crypto for a while it's like just you're experiencing crypto has it made you more bullish on humanity and more jaded um and the answer I consistently get back is like yes yes and I guess I feel that too and this is definitely a moment where we're kind of in a trough in a valley where I'm just I'm like you guys I'm feeling pretty jaded about what's going on like how did this is such a self-inflicted wound how did SPF and the so-called adults like screw this up so royally I mean this is like catastrophic failure how did we even get here how did this happen and it's greed it's degeneracy it's not being satisfied with being a you know multi-millionaire and a billionaire you have to be like 30 billion dollars richest dude on the planet I it's that sort of thing that is dragging us down and I think Ledger you write like the right people aren't getting rewarded right SPF is still worth more than vitalik buterin like what like how does that happen um so yeah it's um it's depressing sometimes maybe this is just kind of a low point maybe this is uh the bottom signal you know it's now this time what's depressing is this was it a bottom signal of the world like Putin's being a [ __ ] Trump is an idiot like shouldn't exist like Biden's been in public offense since 1971. like what is going on like none of these people deserve to be there like it's all ridiculous the absolute freaking apes are in charge and they make no sense and they've there's like billions of real people who are eating the consequences of this you think this is what like the early internet you know fathers of the internet you know yeah created the internet and you're like we're going to give access to knowledge to the entire world right I mean just such a um Utopia type of vision and now fast forward and look at all the ways we're using the internet for negative it's done Untold good but like I mean are we any smarter like than we were you know 30 years ago 20 years ago I mean it just it does feel like uh crypto is kind of repeating some of these mistakes and um yeah I mean I do get jaded when I look at that things like FTX yeah at the same time guys I mean there are so many builders in this space and there's so many projects that are worthwhile and like I don't know Kobe you probably have the one when you say so many you mean like 10 right I mean honestly right um like there's uniswap there's Ave there's what else come on help me guys uh yeah I think that's all of them oh wait can't touch that anymore is kind of a good point in a way though because like and to tell this story I'll have to do a some somewhat of a anecdote or tangent because um I don't know how to explain things simply um because I'm not very smart but um not long ago I got into a little fight on Twitter about nfts and I called them all coins with pictures and um in defense of nfts a bunch of people point to like three or four artists that have built sustainable careers of selling like a one of one over time and their prices have gone up over time and they have genuine collectors and they're like nfts and not all kinds of pitches it's not a scam it's not all just like speculation casino because luck here at this like slice this slice is interesting pure it doesn't have any of those things it's everything that the nft space is supposed to be um there's a real artists who have managed to connect to an audience and monetize their work um and that's beautiful um it's not selling pictures of like bought Apes for millions of dollars or whatever um and at the time I was like how can you just ignore everything else right you're looking at this one percent of the industry and going of your industry or hobby or whatever and going like this thing these things are great because look at this slice and I'm gonna ignore everything else that just deny that information and now I thought about it a little while afterwards and I was like well when I meet friends who are anti-crypto or not into crypto um and stuff I wonder if that's what I sound like to them because I'm kind of like wow Bitcoin ethereum look at uniswap look at like ah look at maker Dao you know um I like this stuff is really good this stuff is like you know pure and like it you know what I mean it's not exactly like that nft guy and I'm not like ignoring uh like all the other stuff I obviously see it and I know that it exists but I do certainly attribute to it like that is that's not the important stuff that's noise that's like you know that's not the industry and really maybe that's like 18 of the volume of the industry or something maybe it's like a lot of the industries propped up on that stuff and they're like biggest players participate in that like binance as 80 market share or something and they did uh they released their own ethereum copy paste clone like you know like the top um tanon um playing gecko is not the things that I think are like people with good intentions building something that's important it's like weird stuff um so I do wonder if we turn a massive Blind Eye to a lot of the stuff or just disregard it as noise because um we see parts of the industry that are important but those are not the um the parts that are like flourishing and growing it's just you can focus on them and go these things are good and yeah I don't know I think that there's a lot of people that build a career on being um like critical of everything in crypto no matter what they call everything um a scam of fraud blah blah um and find something bad to say about everything and then there are people who build a career of being completely uncritically like favorable about everything in crypto um saying everything's good um you know free markets blah blah and I wonder a little bit if to people I sound a little bit like the latter rather than the format like that I think there is like a real there's a healthy line somewhere in the middle of being like optimistically skeptical um uh and it doesn't feel like that space is actually very popular but I surround myself with people that like are in that space But I don't think that it is actually a good representation of the industry perhaps um so yeah I think a lot of the disconnection about how other people see the industry how we see the industry and when these events happen why it's disheartening is because it just reveals to you again all the parts of the industry that you like like you just attributing as noise and unimportant and actually it's really important that make the big the most significant events of every year within our industry by [ __ ] up something like catastrophically um so I don't know I think maybe there's something to do with that but also maybe um like we just sort of kind of ignore in real time um like what can you do about it what do you do yeah this is something I've battled with uh as well I want to argue this guy on stage about something uh I can't remember his name but I had to it was one of those guys Kobe that you identified as people that build a brand off of just like [ __ ] on crypto and that's like what they do and they always come out when prices go down and uh I started off this debate um with my opening statements of like there's always two people in the world of crypto there's the crypto idealist who zoomed forward 50 plus years into the future and talk about the future crypto Utopia that crypto is going to bring and how great it is uh and then there's the crypto Skeptics who look at crypto as it is today and say like oh like well clearly the whole thing's a scam uh the whole thing like through and through and like uh honestly Kobe I actually find do that you actually fit the that middle ground pretty damn well um where you see you're here for all the right reasons but like you can you can call out a bunch of [ __ ] noise when in the middle of a bull market which a lot of people are willing to drink the Kool-Aid um when you're when you were talking about the whole like nft industry where you're called it like all coins with jpegs uh it's just super right it was super right and that was like kind of the same reference I was going with like oh yeah as soon as we figure out crypto industry figures out this new primitive we like regress back to our former selves and start to do what we're familiar with which is trade alt coins but now they've got pictures associated with them that's how I felt in ethereum in 2017 with like the Ico movement I was like oh yeah ethereum's full of icos and I was like and but I'm seeing ethereum as like well no smart contracts icos are just the thing today smart contracts are the future uh but it takes like such a long conviction a long-term like time Horizon to be able to exist in that future State um it's tough man and this is what we do as an industry is like we Zoom forward 50 plus years it's a super cycle we're going to teleport there oh like Oh no just kidding uh interest rates go up uh every new buddy needs to pay back their debts uh all the monkey pictures that you paid a million dollars for are now worth nothing uh I mean it's that it's the inevitable like laying the foundations of things that are real uh and then we just speculate on top of new things and that this was what the bull market was in the first half of 2021 it was a real foundational bull market and in the second half of 2021 it was like GameFly and like weird knockoff Fiverr nfts um but those same things will be back in greater numbers next cycle and they'll be stronger uh and then we'll just do this whole thing all over again man you say super cycle type stuff it's suppressing to me we I don't know about you guys but I mean I got duped by the super cycle meme for sure yeah Kobe's been I don't know about Kobe's been uh consistently when I try to still be believe in something Kobe like brings this healthy skepticism to my chats like the very little time that we talked that's not on the air but even on the air um we've really basically never talked but it's not on the air but um but when we do it's often like him bringing this like skeptical lens to something that I'm okay with right like that I trust inherently or something I just realized we talk about super cycle or whatever else or like meeting your Heroes type of stuff it's like my first cycle I was really dumb my second cycle I was capable and stupid uh that's now

### [1:55:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=6950s) Will there be another cycle? / GaryVee

and like I feel like by the third cycle maybe I'll be capable but also like kind of paralyzed by skepticism and listen you guys are all talking very confidently about his promise next cycle well I'm not saying win little B I'll be more bald more fat whatever like saggier cheeks I'll be like that Telegram uh AI version the sticker of me when I'm like 75. um I just want to know this is the first time in history that people have been extremely confident that another cycle is promised to us I remember thinking that last cycle I thought another one was guaranteed I always thought like oh everyone's talking about the next cycle uh is it really gonna happen then if everyone's talking about it I remember thinking about that I I'm a believer that it's inevitable that we get into this cycle but I'm not going to call a time on that for sure 100 but I like and I could be wrong on that like what if it's in 20 years will you like whip up the podcast again growing freaking old together David what I mean we're not old enough older I'm still how old is garyvee he's old he's very busy everyone 40 43. yeah I was gonna say 44 or whatever I have to type in age how are V friends oh wow he is 46. the more well like with guy he like his streams and stuff but I think maybe it was also because it was all about like cringy jpegs and [ __ ] so I was always like I feel like this is what ledge is going to be like in like 10 years I just watched him like wow this is the future for Ledger because if he was just like no way pushing 50. it's been like check out this rabbit I just minted guys like that's what I see Gary totally unreal energy you know but yeah let's just get books I'll get it yeah like jab jab right hook like he wrote a whole book on this concept jab jab right hook that this is a book yeah I think so I don't want to read it Gary garyvee was like a web guy influencer way before nft so are you all not familiar with his previous works uh-ish yeah it's been on the podcast it was a it was a full-on web guy well I guess I was too but in a different way comment from the chat garyvee dresses like a middle schooler but I love him I mean he's the he is the dude with the skateboard you know yeah two fellow kids guys should we uh think about winding this down and um do you have any parting words of wisdom how about for people who just um just feeling really bad right now dude

### [1:58:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH10DKRMblA&t=7135s) Final Thoughts / Crypto Winter

we I mean we just told them they were gonna get multiple years of uh crypto winter multiple years of the bank with podcast is all I'm hearing we have uh I hope we have the stamina for this David yeah just staking right we just eat it's free buddy that's how that works I mean for most people um more years of crypto winter is probably better um I think for the majority of people listening it will like it would actually be the optimal strategy to have like five years or something um it would be optional for them probably not the people listening that have like a full net worth invested now it probably sounds like quite bad um but like uh if you get a longer time to uh you know um DCA accumulate um figure out your positioning and stuff um with like a clear mind I think that's probably um probably optimal like I had um a job like full-time job for the entirety of the 2017 cycle all the way through the bull market I could have not had a job I could have you know only done crypto and I kept a job and it allowed me to have like a very clear head about the whole thing or as clear as it as clear as I could have had whereas if I was all in doing it all the time it would have been quite bad for me I think um unlike the fundamental parts of the uh the mission and the purpose behind Bitcoin and ethereum and um a very short list of stuff that uh I think like crosses the chasm of legitimacy is not like that is not to me that's not have been doubted by any of this stuff and in fact it's like uh is the opposite of that it's like proven over and over again that like these centralized systems that require you to rent your own assets back from them um will not be um not always be honest with your money and you should not have to trust someone else just to like access a financial service or um uh you know use your own money basically um so that part of the my thesis for the the importance of the like technology and you know um things that we have remains um true today um and that has sort of been like at least my guiding principle for 10 years um yeah it might get really bad in the meanwhile um but until that part until that seems like it's no longer um important um like I think that's the thing to focus on um maybe it was all speculo crypto tokens and like there was a hundred year Bull Run and interest rates went to zero and people invented Bitcoin because there was nowhere else to put your worthless dollars and we had a 10-year super cycle of crypto coins right before Economic Policy regime change and it never recovers and never goes up ever again but in that world like what like hey what can you do and B what else are you going to invest in anyway so um I think just like do you find the mission of having peer-to-peer sensor resistant technologies that allow you to uh the freedom to self-custody your assets important um and do you think that a centralized exchange blowing up a hedge fund blowing up a poorly designed Ponzi scheme mechanism or a different crypto Bank blowing up in any way plus doubt on that thesis for me it doesn't I think that's important um and I'll think about that um but uh I don't know if you saw in chat spf's apparently playing league right now because like because it shows you see the game is playing Kindred um does it say that he's playing that that's Gulfstream blown off steam who knows geez that's got to be a meme uh if that's real that is like what would you do after your multi-billion dollar head of fund blows up don't answer that well um I mean that makes sense Kobe what about you bludger David what do you guys leave us chat Chad was asking for some hope leave us with some hope earlier I think Kobe hit on a point that's right which is like the chain hasn't failed us you know um right the the things that were the worst were the vulnerability points of human actors yeah human failure centralized entities that were unsatisfactory Solutions whether they're trying to meet regulatory criteria or subvert it either way it was human failure over chain failure there was app failure and there was you know hacks and stuff like that but overall the base layer with the chain showed lots of Promise the cycle Kobe mentioned about like who can stomach it for another one what I've recognizing myself and others is can I go in with conviction again in the same way and if I can and if I'm right then the upside is huge right like you go in with conviction a significant percentage of your net worth to do it again and it actually works the upside is not just life-changing the upside is insane if you're wrong there's this Perpetual disappointment opportunity that could be really depressing to go in with that conviction if you disappear you might be all right have changed your life a bit and it was a fun ride but then maybe you missed out on it on being right so you got to determine why are you here for this like Financial Freedom component something deeper and can you stomach the outcome no matter what the outcome is and I think you have to decide for yourself like whether you can stomach the potential outcome ranges whether you want to participate in those and why are you actually here and I uh my personal priority list is family first and then like function set second right like I want the I want my family to be secure and then I want to build well I want to be able to build and do and invest and talk whatever the hell I'm given whatever platform or opportunities I'm given I want to do those reputably that I can look back upon and be proud of my effort and I think that there is still an opportunity to do that within crypto so I intend to do it um but if I feel like that's no longer possible I just won't anymore I don't think we have to give up on those things like this is super bottom signaly type of speech um but I think that we uh I think we still have an opportunity for good I don't think it's guarantee I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done I think a lot of people need to do work we need to talk about the importance of the chain and the um like the Eric Voorhees argument versus the Sam argument like the Trust trust in that which can be trustless don't trust in me because I'm I can wear a suit with my shoes untied um yeah we got to get back to the basics and we gotta wear solid fundamentals and carry on back to the basics um David you saw conviction on the space are you buying I think the main thing to think about is that uh during the 2017 to 2018 crash we basically had nothing to stand on as an industry we had Bitcoin and we had this theoretical use case of ethereum um that was about it um and then we built some stuff during the bear Market that caused a bull market to happen later uh things like You're Gonna swap seeing things like Ave synthetics a few more uh governance tokens now we got some Dow stuff we got some cool nft stuff uh and but we then we've locked in some very real progress um with some very real things that are moving the needle even though that there's like maybe five percent of the total crypto industry is that the real stuff and then the 95 is just like Leverage of that real stuff in pursuit of financial gain again it's just what crypto's gonna be but we've locked in five percent of really cool legitimate like internet changing things and that was and you know Infinity level improvement from the bull market prior going from like zero percent to five percent I think if we just play this out like we don't go from like five percent to ten percent next time we 25 percent or five percent to fifty percent if I'm being optimistic uh and so my bold case for like if this is a five-year bear market and you need the conviction to just grit your teeth and dump your paycheck into crypto because you want that generational wealth it's like not a linear Improvement of legitimate things that crypto produces it'll be an exponential Improvement um uh and so we'll be able I think the people that are here with conviction that are doing good stuff and building real things are going to only have more ammo than all of the scammers who get washed out every single year uh and so like the real people doing the real things will always have a stronger foothold than the scammers that come and just like do the cool thing that happens every single ball Market uh and so I'm optimistic for next Bull cycle that and every bull cycle subsequent that there's always a tilt a slow small tilt towards the legitimate Builders because we have the last year's last Cycles bull market legitimacy to stand upon uh and so that was that's what makes me optimistic uh is that like we'll we just it's just about learning lessons um so that's why that's what I'm optimistic for I agree with that yeah and I mean I guess for me I don't know everything about all the acids in the space but um I feel like this these recent events have actually proven the use case of some of the core assets I have conviction on um correction I have some conviction on bitcoin but you know mostly ether mostly some of these D5 tools that sort of thing uh ethereum I mean this kind of proves the use case right like that we can't actually trust these centralized intermediaries um and uh I don't know to me ethereum in particular has never looked stronger like I would be happy to as long as I have some income it means to do it by triple digit all day and whether that takes one year two years three years five years to come to fruition I mean like is it it's a totally different feeling to me than buying eth in like 2018 or 2019 where we weren't sure about the road map like was proof of stake actually going to happen was ethereum going to scale did it even have use cases besides the stupid Ico thing uh and uh we're well past that now so I don't have conviction on all of the assets in the space and all the use cases but some of the core ones I have more conviction than ever uh so I don't know how long this is gonna take but um guys uh this has been fun thanks for uh a little bit of catharsis this evening uh appreciate up only thankless live stream we'll do these more often maybe not just on like climate stays like this maybe uh more routinely but it's been really fun hanging out with you guys appreciate it cheers cheers guys see you later

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*Источник: https://ekstraktznaniy.ru/video/53150*