OpenAI Five Benchmark: Post-Game Analysis

okay here we go started the video hello everybody that's gonna be watching this I'm blitz I am a professional dota 2 caster / commentator was a former professional player I am joined here by Kyle who I guess Kyle you are a former professional / current professional player who is played at can I say several t is a little bit of a stretch you have been at t eyes and you will also be working as a commentator for this year's international okay so what we're going to be doing here today is just going over the replays of the games that I played against the open AI we're gonna specifically look at gaming them number one and number three of course I played the game but I have not watch this replay yet Kyle you sort of have an idea of what went down I assume you read reddit so you know how this kind of went down I did you all right so on three two one zero will start the replay okay okay so when the draft face started I guess we'll give you our thoughts behind what was good / bad we knew that Earthshaker was probably gonna be very good just because we felt like fog of war heroes would be pretty disruptive to the AI and we felt like echo slam was always gonna be a somewhat useful ability I think the issue here is that we thought that necro was going to be really good mm-hmm so the boss it kept picking Lich first apparently it's priority was highest for Lich like out of all the heroes in the pool which was the hero that it had the most successful you're it's just like the perfect hero in a lot of ways got like all your spell's are useful and theoretically there's no carry in the game that can deal more damage in like that black window it went some it actually didn't go BKB so then we to I grow and we thought it was broken but it was bad yeah Kyle well we understood that after game wow yeah it just lots of damage like both have really and it ramps up I was like yeah so what we understood to about the game itself was that we did feel like our shaker was pretty strong but we felt like gyrocopter and talking to some other pros after the game about it we felt that gyro was probably the most

important hero in the pool like I know that the bot prioritized which the highest but I think gyro was up there equal if not even more than that just because I think that gyro it's just it's a killer and in this pool of heroes there weren't a lot of killers because

gyro has solo kill potential on anybody with homing missile right plus rocket barrage whereas like if you look at the heroes that are on the board right now there's not a lot of heroes that just go in and get kills but yeah they also I think that they identified because they abuse gyro death profit like every game they would first to those heroes whenever available yeah so then we open up razor we thought that we just needed hero that was somewhat independent which you're gonna find by the way it was like the worst idea of all time just because of the way that the Bob plays the meta and then we had the last hero pick and if I remember correctly here we took shadow fiend that was indeed me okay so the SF was actually great by the way in game so it takes line and yeah so this is the lineup we felt like our laning phase was okay we just felt like our mid game should be a lot stronger as well as our teamfight should just be a lot stronger fights they never really are like I don't know what's gonna happen I know they like quad Lane okay so we smoked up that is like the one thing that we knew we were gonna do we were gonna smoke up try to find a fight wasn't really sure what rune they were gonna go to but we felt like maybe we could just take like a decent level one because we know that Lich is sacrifice right and we do have a really strong level one team with crystal maiden plus or shaker stats yeah oh if you notice they have five couriers so since I think the bot can't quite do individual couriers yet so they've got five couriers and so they kind of adapted to the meta in that regard whereas we were playing sort of outdated dota so they secure top rune so you're gonna find this is like the funny the weirdest part about it is that they start as like some weird Quadling collective to begin the game and you would think like that this should be so Advent advantageous to us right the fact that they start like they're leaning like this and some weird configuration like I essentially get a free mid lane to start like a look at mid the sniper but double shrapnel is on the ground I was like sure why not I picked up a soul pretty early on I kind of knew at that point like the bot wasn't perfect when it came to a mechanical skill like it made errors and stuff like that but up at top I don't know if you caught that but they just do under the tower level one to kill merlini yeah they just don't form of the tower but like even the Lich bot bottoms like the weird part too is that they decide to aggro with two cores which is not something we see very often also they're fantastic it tonight that is like the one mechanical skill thing that was absurd apparently is that Ben had a hard time just getting CS but you'll notice in mid lane it wasn't that bad for me whatsoever yeah like they do it very well in terms of like how all three heroes hit we also noticed by the way that they didn't deal with the pole very well I'm watching top down so they just shove up this Lane but it's really hard to get players to coordinate as well as they are because they get the timing at the same frame where it's like so they grab I mean they grab just another kill they rotate down the bottom you'll notice that the bot is really good at this like it gets away with a certain amount of HP every single time then our team rotates the top to try to get the kill onto the gyro I think we're pretty unsuccessful here actually cuz fogged Reddy uses Fischer lots just gonna run around pop the self like middling is great for me though at this point 14 4 I find a regen rune atop I'm telling my team like my game at least is very good to start also we wanted to know how the bots would deal with envious so I felt like shadow fiend was just a good pick we are gonna pick up shadow blade pretty early on I think it just realized like SF is our shadow fiend is a threatened on the map at all times cuz if he has if he doesn't have boots and I have boots I simply just walk up raise him twice and then he dies that's like the benefit of playing this matchup something I should know - is that fogged had a really hard time coming online for game number one and two I think part of it was just like he didn't really know where to be because we couldn't really kill anybody on the map so the game just felt really difficult for him so I tell you I would say you have a big advantage yeah so you're gonna realize that's the hard part about playing in CAI is that it does a very good job of knocking down the early tier ones and then it takes way too much map control in my opinion anyways what the fact that they decide to move everybody down bottom we actually saw that because they did it under vision but they ran for the bounty rune then they said the we

estimate the winning probability the above 99% at that point our team was like minor upset about that because it's hard not to get tilted by that so Fogg had a sick block there just continues to block I think I get stunned here but my team did a really good job of letting me get the last hit they put the sniper so this is something you just never see in dota where they just do the three lane swap like you will never see a mid just rotate to the offlane like this but this is really cool and very effective because razor is not suited to lane against a sniper especially in these thus far behind ya so that's kind of what I thought too like I went to bottom by the way they had the most random century of all time down here which kind of just made my Ganga tim knoll they had two centuries on the guy yeah I do run out of vision and fog lines a nice fissure to stop that but it just felt like where whatever kind of rotation we were making felt really useless and whatever rotation they were making felt like it was just doing too much yeah I think yeah so something I noticed here by the way too that I really want to point out now that we're watching the game or whatever is that their decision to send the sniper to the offlane so snipers

probably the most vulnerable hero and typically you would think that sending them to the offlane or Delaine which is the longest for him is really unsafe but just the way that dota is played nowadays we're largely avoiding playing the safe lane and so it should know where it knows that it's the safest place for it to be so fog line is a really nice fissure I get the double rays off but they do a really good job of crowd controlling me we brought everyone down here for this fight but I think they were just so much faster reacting yeah I thought it was okay yeah so they brought four heroes down here they send their death prophet to the offlane and she just pops this is the tower yeah so I would argue this now it's really rough because their collapse on this mid tower next it's really cool to notice the Lich Max's sacrifice so they're just abusing their the XP advantages because you gain experience when you die creeps so this gets their very level dependent cores and supports really like everyone just gets ahead thanks to this what's XP they're up by a little bit more than 2000 so mid they catch fogged good envision the line was really patient he goes down and the top moon meanders gonna get gone on it's absolutely no way for him to survive this and we didn't really know that they were gonna go at the top and mid at the same time like the thing about dota is that whenever you represents just like two or three heroes you want to try to take the fight where they've got the least amount of people but it felt like they were just so close at finding each other and grouping up yeah they actually completely sandwiched us that was actually incredible I didn't even know that they played it like that we talked about how especially in competitive dota you want to try to defend that's your one tower especially the mid one can't roll so much of your jungle but we just couldn't we just weren't fast enough and you notice that as soon as I go bottom the Lich is already there to meet me and the sad thing is I just can't do anything about it so they rotate more heroes down here they're gonna collapse on me they actually missed the dust but I thought they hit it and so it pops me out of inves all my heroes are down here we were expecting this and we were trying to get the bait off and we just couldn't and you'll notice that the bots always feels like it's in position sniper doesn't even die Oh this was brutal it just feels like they're getting the right amount of Heroes out for all these engagements well I feel like at this point the game like it's like the hero lineups where you don't really have a core that can make plays on the map for you razor has no game whatsoever and same with net girl like these guys need to be ahead really function yeah all in on the idea the shadow team's shadow base it's gonna like take over the game but they can just run around in circles than any combination of two heroes is gonna find kills and they can just stay on that they have so much self-sustained there's funneling salves back in like the DP couriers like a mango a raindrop of clarity in a south so they just continue to die I guess what I wanted to ask you about was did you feel like we just played this very badly was there any like stupid obvious things that we had messed up on low level mistakes but I remember playing back with tall fly yeah and we always like the easiest way to lose games is to try and defend tier ones with fewer numbers than your opponents then you have an extra guy TP n but like you still can't turn the fight so now you like lose three players you lose the tower for sure and like your TV's our cooldown like you just kind of throw away the game so it's off to like almost always better if you can't bring it if you can't be sure you're gonna win a fight at a Tier one you just leave a hero to pull creeps like I would say any core the razor cm of probably ideal just because you can angrily waves and the backup shaker behind and you forced then four heroes to try and make a dive maybe it'll succeed they'll kill a core but you don't lose the tower and like three more heroes and you're in your side lanes your mid lane like your other heroes are not accelerating but when you commit to a lane and then who's the fighter yeah so there's a good point for me to make there about that I think part of it you said and people should really realize like dota has a lot to do with just like how human behavior works is like we felt like we could do exactly what you said which is would have for three or four years down there one guy could continue to play greedy which was me and we would just out greet them collect the pressure shoves up the lane while lion is pushing on middle now I think this concept of like giving a core like licha solo Lane and like support gets ahead he'll be able to like rotate lanes and have a massive impact and it's far easier for cores to catch up into a game than a support because they're able to like sit in the lane take CS the supports if you're behind and you're forced to move around the map like you end up just being lost with no game sort of like we saw happened fogged in this game where he's just like level 2 level 3 and then that decisive fight that happened in the tier 1 guys he was just recovering mid cuz he's like I'm a level 3 Earthshaker this is miserable I'm gonna just try and get something here yeah so what you're saying essentially is they sacrifice the early part of the their core sacrificed game so that everyone could have a good game collectively yeah partly because in addition like it's just for the mental aspect of it right these rockets like come out very fast pause the game here yeah okay so there's two things that I want to talk about here is I think that I think it'd be really easy for me to say that we got mechanically out skilled which might be true to a certain extent but I didn't think here was the reason we lost like I didn't think that it was so there was gonna be one instance that you see of the hex on a fogged but even he said I think that he messed up in that instance but it never felt like we were because I saw a lot of people talk about how we were just mechanically out skilled from the get-go but I think it's we should just like nip that in the bud and say that we probably just got out strategy yeah I think they just executed a game plan so there's always a there's always just like saying that kuroh has croaky the captain of liquid that I really fell in love with he said that somebody's game has to be bad so that somebody else's game can be good like you have to part of most of dota is that one person will sacrifice their success so that everybody else can succeed oftentimes that's going to be either their carry player Mitama men is going to have a really rough game but by him having a rough game every other player on liquid has a very good game whereas I think in this game part of it is that none of us wanted to look bad because of the circumstances we obviously want to all wanted to play well individually because like we're I mean this is a weird high stakes game right we still want to show up and play and so I think especially for myself if I'm just admitting it like I was focused too much on like how well I was doing like as long as I was getting a good game I felt like I was gonna be able to carry and you'll notice that I am the highest love I've got the highest net worth like my game went excellently and it did not matter even in the least yeah I think everybody's like had a massive impact in this game yes I think the Lich following SF from lane to Lane is very interesting you don't want to sit in the lane yeah by default and you also can't pressure tower could be skilled armor at level 4 so you just sad the only way to really respond to that would be to like set up moves on the Lich but this strategy is something I don't think any of you have ever encountered in the combined like 30,000 games probably played yeah so that that's something I realized too is that it felt really weird when I was playing it in game it felt like for whatever reason and obviously I know this now watching this game but it feels like in game that no matter what moved that I would normally make that would likely pay off just didn't it was like I would go to one tower I'd go top I'd pressure out the lane and then there would just be a lich there and I couldn't dive him I just not really scared at all times whereas most human players were just kind of a band in that area yeah and the rest of the team would farm and someone would get picked off that leads to a really cool point like dota I think movement is something that's under aided by like the layman as to its importance on a game and it's very hard to understand or explain because it's like a dance or if you miss one step you're gonna miss the next four so just the minutiae of what they're doing like who's rotating to what lane when they teleport like how they rotate across the map it's very smart and that's um there's a Eevee like expected value is like a poker term that a lot of people use their movements are very strong I think the mid dive is a perfect example where they get to kill top and then they're collapsing mid as five and the worst-case scenario for them is they're gonna collect a support and take out the most crucial of your towers by like before ten minutes and that's something that requires like a lot more coordination then people would think because it's very commonplace for as you're saying you know someone might just want to push top you'll never see people like leave free lanes at times and pubs specifically because it feels bad you want to just keep accelerating get yourself further ahead in the game and part of why dota at its core is a very captain and leadership based game is because you need to have one plan that five people are executing if you're going to be the best I think if you look at the top teams that we have they all like kuroky is a great example of an incredibly strong captain his team execute a game plan and then they thrive yeah I think part of the problem here is okay so there is one moment in this game where I felt like man no human player would be able to make that play if I'm just honest like the hex on the fog but it shouldn't have come to this point where we're down 6000 gold at 18 minutes to begin with I don't know I this game felt really weird because normally if I'm playing a hero like shadow fiend I can use my two nukes I can double raise the wave out I can put pressure on a tower then what'll end up happening is that people that's what allows that's what forces people to split up like people don't really understand this but when you push in waves what it does is you get it closer that's our somebody responds by teleporting up there and then it just opens up the other four heroes on the map because they're not coordinated anymore they it slows down the game plan it makes it so that everyone's like well what now one guy left because you're not gonna send four heroes up there you're just gonna send one guy and then everyone on the map should be susceptible to getting killed there should be some sort of pressure being laid out on the map but I felt like that the AI was just really good at grouping up they would send one hero it was almost always the Lich to slow me down then he as soon as I was gone because eventually I'm not just gonna stand up there he would just leave join up for the rest of his team and they would just continue to put pressure on our towers yeah I think the part of this game if you're gonna review this for like a competitive standpoint like what did we do wrong it's all about the tier ones I think the death profit-taking the tier one top for free while losing three heroes and Tier one bottom then you get sandwiched me like at that point there isn't really much for you to do you're relying on the enemies to make mistakes to win the game but they're in the driver's seat and that's something uh it's very important in dota is tempo control and they have the ability to make moves and thanks to their draft like they have so much draw damage there's no save for any of your heroes like if someone gets stunned or hexed even just jewels in the face like you have rocket chases you like you actually just die all five of their heroes can set up kills and the rest of the team is very adapted just following up and ensuring that they landed and they're always on map which is something that I think is a distinct advantage they have over you where they're just doing much better with courier usage and highly prioritizing regen do you want to continue I don't know how much more of this game is honestly useful to watch at this point it just comes out of the fact that we couldn't hold high ground they were just a little bit too far ahead and then we get double racks in the game is just sort of over probably just skip ahead to game number three sure okay what was really funny is after game one that happened we were just like they were like okay you get to draft your heroes and then we just were like somehow we came to the exact conclusion that we should just steal the bots lineup okay that we just came like every time like hero after here and we're like guys Lich looks like a really good hero let's play it then it was like wait you know what gyro seemed really opie and then we just kept stealing the lineup and then we last picked necro because they had three four melee heroes and an axe in his friend so it just seemed like a really free necro game yeah III think the gyro one thing I would say are we are you watching the game at all are we just talking about this but I'm not sure I recovery is back for that reason I think we'll see it at TI and this game kind of demonstrates why cuz it's just so easy to play around it feels like the hero is never really doing something wrong if you show up in a lane to try and find a kill you're probably best you're great at that if you want a flash farm or take stacks you can do that like you've so many options and part of what makes notice of difficult and complex is that at every facet of the game there are so many options decisions that you could be making uh you could be stacking you can be farming you can be setting up a gank you could be positioning defensively yada yada and you're all it's not just your enemies that are important it's your own teammates what are they doing how are they playing the game and it's just so hard to do all these things correctly I don't know I'm watching the start of this game there quad laning bottom and like interesting yeah okay so we figured that this actually didn't work because they were missing a crucial element that they had in the previous games that we now had which was just the ability to kill people yeah like the gyrocopter and all this stuff made it just so easy to get kills and I think that's like a really good point that's the issue with the razor necro where once they're behind they have no method of gaining of getting kills so their only option is to try and recover and farm the map and when the enemy team is ahead and more adept at finding kills like you just end up feeding at some point that's what happened I also think you played this a much better where you didn't just abandon lanes you keep someone mid at all times it's your net grow you don't feed at this like initial dive you just pull the creeps away it's no big deal that one death under Tower I think of the lion like that's good for you guys in the grand scheme of things because he got a full XP off the wave and it takes so much resources for them to so many complete that die yeah I'm at 3:40 in game but what we realized I was pretty interesting about this game too is that they killed moon and they just kept killing him like they did everything in their power to ruin his game more or less then they went for this dive at Tom at 4 minutes and they actually got more kills than I feel like they should have what the type of lineup that they had like the score right now is 4 to 7 despite them having the most garbage lineup I've ever seen in dota 2 yeah it's like damage cheap these are nice to me trying to see like what their IM decisions are they don't make sense they prioritize boots on like all their heroes which is interesting like first item on the Clark Sven and axe after their initial no ability to move around map yeah although this is much as simpler if you have resources at all times thanks to a free courier like just funneling you regen yeah it's an easier decision to make yeah that was the one knock on the body felt is that the reagent game felts a little bit different it did change I did feel like it changed them at a more than it yeah I still feel like if I'm being dead honest like it's easy for me to say that but we did just get out moved her on the map the first game you guys like I it was just really bad the first eight minutes like you lost the game it doesn't matter if you recovered like learn from it because at that point like they really did have a 99% chance of winning the game yeah especially considering that they weren't gonna make like those critical errors because they know how to close a game but that's what separates good from great teams and what you'll see at this ti we're like the liquids if you give them the advantage that the human team did in that first game like that's it like they're gonna collect that and they're gonna take a free win dota is very much like an easy game to finish when you're in a position like to win it's sort of like just not crashing on the last lap when you've got you know the quarter-mile lead at the last leg at Daytona like you just have to not crash and they do not yeah what are these wards they double warded by accident in this bottom lane yeah so they sort of learn from that in game the spent suicides to kill the tier two later on but you'll notice in this game especially like with how easy mid was because they just didn't send anybody MIT this time around they didn't have their what I noticed that was really different is because they don't have the Lich to just sit there and defend the tower they don't have something that just pulls it back in and plays defense so no one really wanted to be there on their team yeah and look now you can just do exactly what they didn't game on you're just here with three chords that are incredibly strong lion runs up like there's nothing you can really do here at team bot test this power push yeah that's uh we just essentially sold their strategy and we sent our own list on the bottom but they just dome but it doesn't really matter at this point I felt like this game was like much easier to play yeah and I see two heroes up at top I think I was the one that teleported here if I remember correctly which I was don't a memory still good because I felt I just felt like I was unkillable in this game like it was my job to be the one to be up here to defend this tower yeah I would agree you you're the one that wants to be douve and then it's so easy for your team to play around yeah and that's exactly what's happening right now you'll see fog comes in completely whoops the stun but it doesn't really matter and that that's what I would have liked to see in Game one but it's much more difficult this game it's as Fenton acts in a recap in' if the gank is played out accordingly where you bait the hero that's strongest he just kills time his supports can come in and now you've just completely overextended on the open AI team and suddenly you're in trouble and in the meantime you were farming to Lane style push that bottom D be pushed out mid he's recovering final point on the first game is something else we want to bring up was the sniper going top brilliant I think that's something else we might see more in the future is that if the mid gets this big advantage and you have some hero you can just plant there a la a Lynch you just send them to go up against the opposing carry you have a hero advantage a two-level advantage and it's so hard like you don't want to play in your safe Lane as you turn into the mid game in DotA you want to be able to play around the enemy jungle because it gives you the ability to threaten two lanes and to remove the enemy woods as an area for them to acquire resources and advantage so how do you contest this sniper when you have a razor in your safe lane like it's really not possible you could kill him by bringing three four heroes there but now what like what does that accomplish yeah because you're not getting the objective alpha that it's not easy to take that tower right after yeah it's a really good point okay so relieving pressure you're not actually applying any yes just playing catch-up essentially the other team is still now in control of the tempo leading the dance and you're just responding that's never really want to be in DotA it's very important how many so you notice in this game too they're still making similar moves like they brought two core heroes made in fact I'd say I don't even know who qualifies is what in this kind of game but they bring a bunch of heroes here they take the mid tower like they're still doing in my opinion that actually I wouldn't go yeah with their lineup is kind of it was kind of sad for a bit if this is like two teams of human is a dire line I was running down mid like y'all ready well I got from the draft and nobody really wants to play this so the fact that it is as close as it is something I want to point out so what the bot did let's say like let's skip to what's like a good time to skip okay so if you come down to about 15 minutes and 50 seconds in game 15 50 or I meant 1551 I guess all right I'm at 15 53 okay let me just catch up to your fuss okay three two one zero okay so you'll notice that the slark is just kind of wasting time at bottom so what they're doing right here is a concept that I think everyone should have pretty good approximate knowledge of is that it's just trying to keep the creep waves pushed in at all times like you'll notice that the same time the spin is pushing out top so we sent three heroes down to deal with bottom they send one hero down to push in mid and they send this vent here up to pressure top and what they're doing essentially is they're just giving themselves more opportunities you have a radiance I do I mean thing this item was GG once I caught it was it's a great item it's just I'm just the timing I mean I had a free lane nobody came to my lane like but yeah what they're doing is all times like you notice the bottom the axe immediately goes to the creep skip yeah I admit they're always applying pressure to all three lanes at once which is probably what we should have been doing in the game that we were behind but they just they do it pretty effortlessly and I guess the reason why I want to highlight this or why it's important is that what it does is it just gives you more opportunities on the map at all times because if you think about it eventually we will slip up and we'll send the wrong hero to the wrong place and if they get one kill then suddenly it feels like the game is reset not to mention if you die shoving the lane like we've seen it's not that much of a punish because you've already seconds ahead in that Lane now because their wave is dead and yours is alive and yeah walking towards the enemy so even though they find that kill they have to now catch the creep wave like you're a creep wave ahead so you're buying time especially if there's multiple heroes in the lane like you're just you're not actually losing anything it's something a VP I would say does the best in the world at the moment they're always playing three lanes and it allows them to then connect with their heroes to find kills or in the event you die you just immediately swarm the other ends of the map because you've forced enemies into an area that is now dead yeah so you'll notice that this is happening again where the slark yes he died but we call this like a net neutral death because it doesn't really do anything like we don't really care they don't really care that he died because he's just gonna go bottom and do the same thing and what he's doing is he's opening up the rest of the map for his team so either what you're doing is you're forcing them into a decision which is either we come back and somebody goes to defend this or they make a move on the other side of the map so we sent moon me under here because we just need one defensive hero here mid the queen of pain is being aggressive and then what they want to do is create some sort of movement on the map try to catch somebody right and they're just gonna keep shuttling heroes around until they find somebody to kill that's nice it looks simple but it's really good complicated movements like I've tried to teach this to people many times in my career it's quite difficult yeah this shouldn't die here but like as you can see like look at all the time wasted spells use three heroes the creepwave dead look at what his team is able to do yeah axe is like aggressively farming enemy jungle he can cut next creep wave mid wave is just marching down and this is something like you don't see inferior teams do where even though two heroes are dead on the map instead of retreating and just sort of giving the map away they still just try and output pressure and remove the time of the having dead allies yeah so you noticed by the way that you were completely right like that is what the accident because that's just a good plate he cuts the wave then he just farms our jungle so fog notices him obviously because we have a ward here and I think we do get the kill on him if I remember I reap recite them everybody I reap or save the queen of pain somebody gets reversed it's on cooldown she's kidding yeah and the spend they're behind now so these plays are cool they are playing the map really nicely but the issue is that now you guys are the terminators and playing like you're just all over the place they can't actually find kills on you partly due to their heroes being inferior but also because now you're so far ahead they can't ever kill necro and necro is going to kill everyone if they try and battle him yeah I mean at this point the game even twenty minutes in it's over I just thought the cool part was that they're doing something to expand like the possibility of winning I guess like they're still trying to make game-winning plays I mean I think this game is hopeless just from the lineup if I'm just honest but it was cool that they still try to make plays around the map to get something done yeah I actually think they're playing to win like this is a winnable game if their hero composition is just slightly better and there's a glitch I think you guys are in trouble yeah so moon I think actually picks up a double kill here if I remember correctly yeah but I mean at this point there's not much else to talk about I think like the game just repeats in this fashion but I thought they did a pretty good job of just giving themselves more options which I think more teams or more players should try to do it's like I think a lot of people are obsessed with the concept that potentially dying but you just sort of had to take these risks when you're this far behind I I'm happy because I think the bots are utilizing two concepts that I've always sworn by and also had like a lot of resistance to which is notably one you want to try and ensure every player on your team has a game I don't think this idea of having a like a worthless 5 position that's really a 6 is what you want in the current meta just because of the way items function and how strong experience is on nearly every hero in DotA thanks to talents um and in addition they really heavily prioritize what I would call like mid game carries that don't need a lot of time to come online they're always strong throughout the game and while they might fall off and like a 6 odd verse 6 thought against other heroes like their if they're ahead they stay ahead and they can maintain an advantage so it just feels suffocating they really just tighten the vice and inevitably it feels like they're going to win the game like in the first game again the game is over at 8 minutes from then on out it's just following the script and I think that that's the ideal way to be playing good dota it's just obviously very difficult when you're trying to coordinate with five other players and the 5 couriers do give you a big advantage too because you could always stay on map which is an even further big advantage to heroes that are already stronger on map than their opponents yeah that was a mouthful but yeah that's like oh I like that that's what I would say is it coolest okay so again this is blitz here with Kyle thank you for joining me in reviewing game number one and three and I think that's gonna do for us yeah thanks for having me on I appreciate it I'm sure it was interesting yeah you guys you know what do you guys were missing what you needed a captain a five player yeah who's fallen from grace need to reclaim some glory to pick up the banner and uh yeah next time next we learned a lot this 100% the boss will have time to Train and I'm sure at some point you'll end up back in San Francisco and I think that you have a much better shot this time