Starting in January, I was unemployed. And it actually got bad that my church community uh did a GoFundMe for my family so that like we could, you know, like keep the lights on. I have three boys and then a wife and, you know, running off trying to do some silly AI thing was uh kind of scary, but I was like, just give me one month. Let me try it out. And my plan was to join your class and just to like try to get it done. It ended up being around 25K. — That was in month one. Yeah. Isn't it just so much easier to just get going with the actual core thing that matters and then just, you know, worry about starting that LLC after you've actually validated it as opposed to spending days, weeks, or maybe months filing paperwork or dealing with whatever rigomearroll just so that you have a business model that you realize doesn't work 2 months later. Like validate it first. Do you have any advice to somebody that's watching this right now and thinking, you know, this sounds great, online business sounds great, AI automation sounds great, but I don't know if I could do it. Oh yeah, I would 100% say, — Mr. Cooper, great having you. Thank you very much for coming around. — Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. — So, let's just dive right into things. How much are you making this month with the automation business? — Yeah. So, this month I am closing a little over 30K. — $30,000 US. — Correct. Yes. Not — Canadian. Always have to double check. — Yes. Yes. — Dang, man. That's awesome. Congratulations. — Thank you. What is that made up of? Like what sorts of clients, what sorts of deals? — Yeah, sure. So, my like first really large client that I have, I'm still doing like custom work for him. So, about 15K of that is towards that and then another 10K on a new voice automation and then there's some retainers in there too from both ends. — Nice. — And then I have some other smaller clients that I'm doing some work for too. — Cool. Like total number of clients up until now? — I would say four. Four or five. Cool. — There's a lot in the pipeline right now that like just are about to close and then uh we just need to get, you know, some work done for them. So, — yeah, for sure, dude. That's awesome. All right. Well, let me know. I guess for you it's probably been, I think, over four months now, right? You joined, was it the beginning of this year? — Uh, I joined right around um March. — March. Gotcha. — So, yeah, right near Yeah, like the end of March. — Cool. So, I guess about five months ago now. Um, what were you doing before you found your way into Maker School and all that? Give me the whole backtory. — So, I've been in tech and uh product management. I've been doing that for the last 10 years and I've worked at small companies. I've worked at um larger companies like Arizona State University and then the last 5 years I was at American Express. — And back in July of last year, I got let go. And that was kind of a shocker for me. um being let go and like you thinking you're in the corporate, you know, ecosystem like you're good and you're fine and um so that was definitely a shock and was really difficult to find another job. I've always had like an entrepreneurial spirit. I've always wanted to do my own thing, but it was just difficult like getting startups off the ground. Like I didn't know how to raise millions of dollars and like how do I do that last part? Like I got the MVP, I made the thing, but I don't know how to like make a bunch of money um or raise a bunch of money. I was able to get another contract back with American Express at the end of last year and they ended up cutting it short. So, starting in January, I was unemployed and it actually got bad that my church community uh did a GoFundMe for my family so that like we could, you know, keep the lights on. And um I then started um Ubering and like doing just different gig work. And as I was doing that, I started, you know, I've always been an avid YouTuber, so I was just like listening to a bunch of YouTube stuff and uh got kind of going through that and I fell into the whole AI automation black box, you know, the whole that whole rabbit trail of YouTube. And I first entered into GoHigh Level stuff and I was like, "Dude, this is amazing. Like, this is so cool. Go High Level's awesome, you know, and then I start learning like, oh wait, most of these guys are charlatans. Like they've had never actually done anything. Uh they're just selling. you could call any local business today and get them whatever. And it's like, yeah, right. Well, let me see you doing this. And then they show their, you know, their Stripe account and it's from all their money they make educating people. And you're like, okay, you're a liar. And then I eventually fell into you and I was like, oh, this guy actually knows what he's talking about because I've been involved in tech and you can speak tech and you have, you know, a lot of street cred of like different things that you've built out over the years. So I was like, okay, I really like this guy. And so in March, beginning of March, my wife was like, "Hey, I really want you to like try to, you know, start really getting serious about looking for another job cuz I was trying to do like entrepreneurial stuff during that January to March. " And I was like, "All right, well, let me try this AI automation thing. Just give me one month. " And my plan was to join your class and just to like try to get it done. Good plan. Yeah, exactly. And so I join it and I'm like, "Okay, I get all my cold email stuff set up. I get all that going. " I did sell some of the go high level stuff like so I had a couple like smaller clients. I just kind of like contacted my rolodex and was like contacting different people and so I was doing some of that but it's so like small and kind of insignificant. It wasn't like a big project that I knew I could handle. And so I followed your whole plan and got roasted on my Upwork and profile and everything else. And uh I then submitted a proposal on Upwork and the person like listened and liked what I had to say. And um it was around like an AI cold email and or AI outbound system. And um I definitely felt confident in the cold email from what I learned from you. And like I started getting it set up with another client. So then I submit that pitch to him and um he liked it and he's an amazing guy. But he was also like I came in like just like your whole thing. lower. I was like, "Hey, I just want to build a relationship, work with you. " And he was like, "No, like I really like you. Just give me something that's fair. " And I was like, "Uh, okay. What the hell is fair? — I know, right? — So, I was like, okay. Um, so I kind of looked around and saw what people are kind of typically charging around and so it was around like 5 to 10K depending on like the detail of everything. And this was a super custom job of like sending all the info um back into HubSpot and everything. And so I came in with a around 20K and he was like, "It's a little bit over what I wanted, but I really like you and I want to work with you, so let's do it. " Okay. And then he's like also is there any other like I then pitched a whole bunch of other automation to try to like get a retainer? And in there I pitched like a whole new way of him using his whole system around using AI and he loved it and was like this is exactly what I need to do. Like this is amazing. And then I pitched other some other sales enablement stuff like auto presentation creator and like stuff like that. And so it ended up being around 25k um was the project. — Jesus. And that was in month one. Yeah. gotten the same you like to your wife and you were like, "Hey, so about this whole job. " — Here's the check. Yeah. — Yeah. It was really cool cuz I mean before that, like I said, it was like, you know, maybe a couple hundred here and there of like little go high level stuff and it was like, okay, I had this whole plan of like making a website and doing this and doing that. And I love that you were just like, don't make a website. Don't even file an LLC. You're like, and it's like you can get so caught up in all the stupid business stuff that you don't actually end up doing anything. And so I was like, okay, I'll just make this Upwork profile and I will, you know, figure out how to position all my prior work and, you know, in my career and see how I can do this and uh it's worked out very well for me. So — yeah. Yeah, there's just so much like inherent friction to doing all that stuff. Now, I'm not a lawyer. This isn't legal advice. Also definitely not a financial adviser, so take all this with a grain of salt, but — so many people are worried about like the tax implications and the legalities of like, you know, getting up and running, selling as an individual as opposed to a business. And it does depend on where you are in the world. But the way I've always seen it as is, wouldn't you rather just sidestep all that friction and just like start selling stuff, validate that you can sell the stuff and then if for whatever reason you do have to pay, I don't know, 5% on whatever BS that you just made, like you can deal with all that stuff afterwards. Like isn't it just so much easier to just get going with the actual core thing that matters and then just you know worry about starting that LLC after you've actually validated it as opposed to spending days, weeks or maybe months filing paperwork or dealing with whatever rigomearroll just so that you have a business model that you realize doesn't work two months later. — Like validate it first, right? And then once you make the 25 grand or whatever the heck you made uh in month one, like you can worry about all that stuff later. It's just going to be a fraction or percentage of whatever net income that you're making. Mhm. Yeah, I totally agree. And I I've definitely fallen prey to that cuz like I said, this isn't the first time I've tried to do my something on my own. Uh but it's definitely the first time it's been successful. Um and uh yeah, you can get so caught up in like logo designs and just stuff that's just not actually doing any of the actual work or getting something done. — Yeah, dude. I distinctly remember spending like two weeks on my website not realizing that it was just like it's like a fancy business card. Like if you're running like a SAS or something or you're like raising funds as you were talking about potentially doing um you know like your website matters right it's like your digital footprint if you're running like a surface business like trying to sell a service — it's like a fancy business card digital business card like you know they're not going to care if it's printed on linen stock or — super shiny glo like nobody gives a crap about that man — right — so give me a calendar booking — yeah exactly yeah well and I think that's what's nice about like all uh kind of the Upwork like you mentioned is just like everyone there is just ready for you to solve a problem right away, you know? Yeah. It's kind of like eye opening to see it work out cuz I was like I was, you know, of the mindset like what am I like Fiverr? Like I'm going to be like a Fiverr guy, you know. — Um and I did not think I could — find, you know, an amazing client from Upwork. So yeah, I think the further that I get into it, the more I realize that lead genen is lead genen and the only thing that matters is what is the ratio between your customer acquisition cost and then the average order value plus some weighted lifetime value. Like if you just zoom out enough like it really doesn't matter what you use to generate leads so long as it works. Once you've validated that lead genen mechanism works, once you've made a little bit of money, you now have a business. You don't just have something you do on the weekends. Once you have a business, then you can worry about maybe taking some of that and then reinvesting that into alternative lead genen strategies like cold email and whatnot like we were talking about. — But so many people get psyched up before they even start. They just say, "Oh, I've heard that this is bad, so I'm not going to do it. " And it's like, just try it for yourself, man. Like you can figure this out pretty quick, right? Like as you saw, you know, you got some validation, some feedback within a few days starting. Was it the nicest? No. But you, you know, you got enough positive feedback to keep you going to get that actual major win, — right? Well, and yeah, for me, I'm like, when you're making barely $200 a day doing Ubering, like you're like your back's up against the wall, right? And I'm just like I, you know, cuz I was making six figures obviously like at working at American Express and other, you know, big companies, but it was a shell shock to be in that scenario. — Yeah, for sure. And it sounds like, you know, you got a family. You clearly have a cute ass cat in the background here. — Got a lot. — Exactly. Um, and so yeah, a lot of responsibility. I have three boys, um, 10, eight, and six. So, and then a wife. And so, yeah, I have a lot of responsibilities and, um, you know, running off trying to do some silly AI thing was, uh, kind of scary, but I was like, all right, I'm just going to just listen to everything you say and even if I feel like it's silly, I'll just do it because you're done this more than I have. So, yeah. Yeah, fair point, man. That's awesome. Um, okay. Well, speaking about the six figures of American Express, then, do you have like a goal or did you have a goal when you started this business? I mean, $200 a day replace the Uber probably. Sorry. — Yeah. The first one was to Yeah, exactly. at least make enough what I was trying, you know, scraping by with um — uh I would say now like is to probably be around like a 20k MR would be really nice. Um I'm at like five right now. So — like consistent uh recurring project based and stuff. — Yeah. Yeah. And so just trying to move into like more recurring. But the thing that this whole thing has done for me is like opened up so many opportunities too. Like even with this first client, big one, he wants me to like be the head of AI for a startup as it's growing. And so I'm like torn. I'm like, do I continue the agency thing or do I like go and do this, you know, head of AI thing. And so it's just, you know, there's just so much opportunity, which is like a good problem to have, right? especially in this economy right now with like what you see at least from the articles of like jobs and stuff like that and I definitely have seen it's insane how many people apply to jobs and it's hard out there for sure. I definitely think this is a much bluer so to speak and it's so much easier to get paid what you're worth, right? Because you just have access to significantly more supply. You know, it's like one client paying you X versus like 10 clients paying you — one over 10x. It's like — if you lose one of them, you have significantly more leverage in the negotiations. you have — total control over like the approaches that you take, you know, is with like a job. Um, and I'm not just saying this to position maker school as an alternative to a job. If you have a job, like stick at the job, join maker school anyway, and then worry about quitting later. — But, um, like when you have a job, like when things go well, you know, you don't claim full responsibility for the win. And when things go bad, a lot of the time, like it's completely outside of your control, then you bear the brunt of the responsibility of that going bad. aka you lose your job or whatever. — So I feel like it's risk asymmetric compared to reward. — Whereas when it's you when you win it's because of you and when you lose it's because of you. So it's just very fair that way and if you're a Compton operator like that's obviously what you want to do, right? — Yeah. Exactly. It's totally true. It's just hard when it's like — now you know figuring out insurance or all these other things where you know having a job it was very easy to be like oh here you go here it's all done for you. So there's definitely that part of it like trying to get all that situated and everything. Um, and convincing the different families and the grandparents that are like, "Why why don't you have a job? " And you're like, "What do you mean? I'm thinking money. " You know, — like, "No, you should get a job. " And you're like, — "You're staying home all day. " — I know. — Exactly. So, there's the family pressure, you know. — It was brutal, man. Well, like I got into um self-employment, which later turned into, you know, because I think I was employed by myself first and then I eventually like ran a business where I was employing other people. Very uh big difference. But when I was very young, like very young, and I had no responsibility. I had no family members that were leaning on me. I had no, you know, no cat, no son, no daughter, no nothing, you know, it was just me, myself and I. And god damn, was that hard. And I had nobody else. I can't imagine how much more committed and how much more the risk side of things are bigger when you go into something like that with responsibility. So kudos to you for making that bet. And obviously I imagine it involved a lot of long nights, probably a lot of really hard work to make it happen. You're sitting here smiling. We're laughing. You know, you're on the other side of that, right? — Oh, yeah. — Must not have felt that way when you were diving in. — No. Yeah. I mean, with those smaller clients at first, it was easy. It was like, "Okay, I know to do this, you know, and then there's so many tutorials. I can figure this out. " But like with this um with this bigger client, it was uh it was scary for sure cuz I just felt like I know I can do this, but I don't want to screw it up. And if I do screw it up, I'm just going to give him the money back. like I was totally fine with that because I I don't know. I'm more quality over quantity. I'm more, you know, just want to do a good job. And so I was like um I knew that I would do that. So I um so I surrounded myself with a lot of good people. That was one thing I knew when I especially when I was kind of putting this together, I wanted to make sure I could get it all done. And so I, you know, know a lot of different people. And so I'd reached out to different people like, "Hey, can you help me with this? that? " And what's crazy about product management is I didn't realize I was basically a mini agency owner for the longest time. Like I as a product owner, you work with the business side and you understand what they want and then you go to the developers and you get it built and then you're kind of keeping everyone happy and keeping everyone at bay. And so it's like I've basically been an agency owner for the last 10 years and I didn't realize it until I was. — Damn, I never even thought about that. So you're yeah you're basically performing the similar function where you get like you know scope requirements and stuff like that synthesize them and then translate them into something that the client understands. — Yeah. Exactly. So it was like all built into my like proposal and everything. I already knew like hey we're going to build this agile. I'm going to have weekly milestones. I had all this like set out how I was going to do it cuz I knew that's the best way to get software made is you have to do it quick and you have to get feedback immediately. I've basically been doing this uh for the last 10 years. Just I wasn't making any of the money. Yeah, a hell of a realization, huh? You rectified that good enough. How was um software to no code that transition? — Well, so in product like you don't really develop, you know, uh so I can read most code. I definitely know APIs and integrations. So the no code and maker stuff was really very easy for me to kind of know how all that works. The cold email side was a lot I felt like harder because there's so much marketing involved in it. Um, and so I'm like I'm not really wanting to sell the cold email kind of machine anymore after kind of doing this big project cuz it ended up becoming like they wrote the script because they didn't like the direction I was taking with it and then they had their own opinions and then you know so it was just so much back and forth just around copy and I'm just like oh my goodness. I found I really liked the voice side. I have a background in film and lighting and so the voice for me almost felt like script writing and Sam Alman has talked about this that like with AI now we can do software on demand. Um and so I came in with the pitch with already like a pretty killer voice demo that was fully integrated with Gohigh level. Um but we ended up doing it all into HubSpot. But it was like it was fully integrated. I talked to it. It took notes. It sent me an email. It did all this just in my demo. And I prided myself on being kind of a funny guy. And so I added a lot of humor to it. I just wanted to be out there, you know what I mean? And so I added a lot of like quippy jokes and some of it I wrote myself. pre got like I went to AI and like pre got a bunch of like they do tennis and pickleball so I got a bunch of like tennis and pickleball jokes and then I the ones I thought were funny I added them in into my script. — I think that's where like you know AI and other things excel is like being able to like add in your own personality into it. And so that was kind of, you know, very helpful to kind of like have him see it and be like, "Holy cow, this guy can do this. " And I'm like, "Yes, I can. " — Sure, dude. Man, people do business with people they like, right? And like that's a big chunk of it. So just showing that you're also just like a person. Um I think goes a long way. — You know, it's silly, but back when I was going door to door, I was working off this like old school sales script and yeah, I was just chugging it like 50 80 times a day. And I did that for like a year basically almost every day. And there's this one section of it which I always thought was stupid and it was like building rapport. It's like one artificial way to say like being a cool person, you know, it's like building rapport. Ask them questions about themsel and I was like ah yes, I must ask questions about them. It was so artificial and stuff like that. Um but like when I abandoned that I did very poorly. Like when I actually took relationship building and I considered that like a core part of the sale uh I performed significantly better. It's not like freaking rocket science, right? I feel comfortable giving my money to Cooper because he's just a cool, fun, relatable guy with a cat in the background. Definitely would not feel the same, you know, chatting to somebody who's like very dry and robotic and is clearly just there for — uh positioning needs and problems and solutions and whatnot. So, that's cool, too, man. Like, don't knock the soft skill side of things and like the relatability and whatnot. Obviously, we chat big about specific tactics and, you know, how to implement our services as uh effectively as possible within the given market, but also just being like a cool dude that you'd grab a beer with goes really far, too. — Yeah. Well, I mean, hopefully you can back this up, but like with any sales, it's all about building trust. — And so, trying for them, you know, to trust you, coming being presentable, speaking fluently and confidently. Like I said, obviously you can hopefully back it all up. And I believe I did because, you know, the things are working. The cold email is working really well actually. They have over 10% reply rates. Um you know I know — that's interesting. — Uh our bounce uh our bounces you know are doing fine. I haven't lost any mailboxes like so deliverability is working really well. Um that was helpful to uh from you but then also to uh Jay uh lead genen Jay. I learned a lot of tactics from him too. Um and so — yeah. Um, and then voice, like I just followed like tons of different communities and um like I said, voice is pretty it's pretty straightforward. It's definitely like more around I feel like the creativity of the conversation, knowing how to hold a conversation, how to not like a lot of people build a lot of voice agents that are just like, — "What can I do for you? Tell me what to do. " It's almost like you're being held at gunpoint by the AI. It's like, "Whoa, man, calm down. " Um, and so I try to build it to feel conversational. Try to quickly get them to reply as fast as possible so that they are talking to the agent, you know, and maybe after two or three sentences, they realize, dang it, I've been talking to a robot. And for some reason, they're like, I don't want to hang up cuz this is kind of interesting or, you know, cuz if you just go in with like the pitch, then it's just like click, you know. Um, so yeah, it's been fun. — That's super cool, man. What a set of skills. Very, very high income skill right now. So kudos to you for developing that. — Thank you. What are you spending your time on right now? Like walk me through a typical day in uh Mr. Craig's life. — It is crazy. Uh for sure. There's um so I mean obviously like checking communications, Slack, emails, and just replying to any of those kind of things. I'm starting to build out a team. My buddy who's like my CTO, he's helping me, but he's been busy with other things. And so I' I've got like now like a senior dev that's helping me with like a lot of the NAND and any of those kind of like super technical integrations. So I have him helping me with that. and then just some other people that have been interested in like wanting to learn about sales and so they're kind of trying to make calls and doing stuff like that. So, I'm starting to build out um a team, but yeah. So, communications and then just committing to like some milestone that I want to get done, whether it's like building out a demo for my first big one and then the second one right now that we're working with, it's a voice agent within HubSpot. And so, we're just kind of in that whole pipeline of just getting all that made and testing and making sure it's everything's working. And then what I need to get better at is then the other end of like getting more clients cuz like the smaller ones, they haven't really grown into anything. And then that really big one, I focused 100% of my time on it after we were done in like May, June, and July was still like picking up other pieces with them and trying to fix some certain things. And so I hadn't like I went back to Upwork and tried, you know, but this time I was like, well, I can make a lot of money. So I put in like higher bids and no one even opened my proposals. Um, and I was like, "Okay, I got to play the whole like come in for pennies because I don't have a good Upwork. " I mean, I literally have no reviews. I don't have, you know, of course. — So, yeah. They don't know who I am. Um, and I try to get my Loom videos to be like, "Hey, I'm awesome. Look at me. " Um, but — do you know who I am? — Yeah. Do you know get 155 likes, — but they don't open my proposal at all to even watch my video, you know? Um, — isn't it interesting how like how much of a game everything is? Like I mean I'm I used to play tons of video games as a kid. — It is. Yeah. — Like Upwork is like a game, right? Like there's a bunch of these buttons that you press, you know, X, Y, AB, whatever. If you just press them in a specific configuration, like you keep the prices a little bit lower, come in, prioritize a sales call, deliver, demonstrate high value, you know, foot in the door, and then grow your thing. You'll do really well. Cold email is similar, right? It's like plausible deniability in the subject line. Like make us they don't are you a customer? Are you like a friend? Like what the hell? you click on the email. Whoa, no-brainer offer. Okay, sure. — Like there's just all these little games that you have to play. And uh honestly, your intentions don't matter. It's just like what is your performance in the game? As Shane does, you could be the biggest hot shot ever. And I see a lot of people join Baker School that have like crazy experience. Like you have a very good CV, right? MX uh you know, you talked about a couple other companies a moment ago, product uh development, stuff like that, but like dude, there's some people out there that like I personally closed $150 million in sales and it's like, — you know, and then they get like zero success on it cuz their CV, you know, like the cover letter sucks. — So just realizing that it's all a game at the end of the day. I mean, it doesn't seem like it when a gun's to your head and you, you know, like drive an Uber, can't pay the bills or whatever, but like when you put yourself in that mindset, I think, um, it's almost like that natural kid mindset of just like playing a game and uncovering how it works, I think you perform a lot better. And I have a feeling that's what you did in your first month, man. That's why you crash. — Yeah. I mean, it totally is. It's Yeah, it totally is a game of knowing and just got to know what the rules are, you know? And one thing like I've learned as I've gotten older and matured and like you had broughten it up in your Maker School course around like how valuable speaking English is. I just never realized like how fortunate I am that I am a native English speaker and like just realizing like what you have in Maker School like you're working with a lot of people, you know, all over the globe. And so I was like, man, that's that kind of sucks. Like I wish everyone could speak English super well, you know. Um so I just things like that. It's like that perspective of realizing like how fortunate you are just where you're born. Um yeah. So — yeah, dude. I was asked for the highest income skill um a few videos ago. I do this daily updates thing. I'm not sure if you've seen it but — Yeah. I follow it. — Yeah. And somebody was like, "What what would you say is the most valuable skill to learn? " And then I'm pretty sure I was just like English. You know, English simply because it's like the de facto business communication language right now. And you can certainly make money speaking whatever language you want. Like obviously you can. But um this one just has the widest uh like market penetration, widest accessibility, widest um correlation between countries with high labor productivity. — All these platforms just like default to it. So just the simplest straightest line path. And I feel the same way. way, man. Cuz um yeah, luck of the draw at the end of the day, right? Like flip a coin, you could have been born somewhere that did not afford you that same access opportunity and whatnot. and you would have had an entirely new challenge literally learning a whole language that you would have had to juggle or tackle alongside the stuff. So much respect you every time that I'm like talking to somebody and this is an aside not related to any of this business stuff. I was just thinking about the other day like anytime I talk to somebody and they are in um their native language is not English and they are speaking English to me and I'm like I'm talking with them and I'm you know we're discussing whatever and then you know maybe there's some peculiarities of the ways that they're phrasing certain things. I'm like that person is so goddamn smart because they're communicating with me and they're just fundamentally disadvantaged in some way if we're honest. They're fundamentally disadvantaged. they have like they're like painting with like a thicker paintbrush that isn't as fine detailed and they can't draw and make all the same little things that I can simply because you know they were forced to get all the concepts from their language and then shove them into English boxes which may not be onetoone and I always think about it that way like anybody that is forced to communicate at that like disadvantaged playing field that like doesn't have a lot of time into it like how courageous and how much intelligence is behind like that brain that is constantly fighting that uphill battle. Like it's always just so impressive to me, you know. — Mhm. — So, — for sure. — Yeah. Kudos to anybody that uh is doing that, — too. There was I forget the guy's name, but he had this like super famous tweet now that it's like um I forget how it's worded, but basically that like English is the best way to write code now. — Um and it's so true with AI and like that's just how you're interfacing with computers is like they're all written in English. Um so, yeah. — Yeah. True. Don't tell that to China. Game over. Yeah. — All right. Cool, man. So, yeah, you know, in terms of like day-to-day, I heard you a moment ago talking about how you're juggling various things. Things are pretty busy, though, to be clear at, you know, $30,000 in the last month, right? — Oh, yeah. — Yeah. It's like managing like all the clients and like keeping them all, you know, happy and they're making sure everything's working well and Yeah. Um Yeah. So that's why I'm like trying to get more of a team to help me out with certain — Makes sense. Yeah. No, I totally feel you. — Which is kind of the I know like I wouldn't say the opposite, but you don't really recommend that. You kind of re recommend the one guy thing and so I don't know how to I need to productize. I know that that's what you talk about. I need to like get a product um because I'm kind of in the agency scramble mode. You know, — you kind of have two paths, right? Like hit that fork in the road where it's like you're big or getting bigger. You know, I don't know 15 $20,000 a month. Depends on you and your technical ability. But then you kind of have those two paths. The one path is like, okay, now it's time for me to learn management skills, become a better manager and like synthesize a team. So that's like path one. That involves obviously a lot of hiring, a lot of like vetting, a lot of talking for the most part. And the second path, if you just hate management like I do, it's like, okay, I could figure out a way to systematize the business, so I don't need I don't necessarily need those people yet. And uh that involves a whole set of different skills. Uh I think and I think both paths are fine. Like it's not that one is inherently better than the other, but I know for myself as somebody that has managed teams um over 20 people, I just dislike it and I it's not really where I want to put my time and energy. — Now the real alpha is when you can find a way to you know combine both. You get like productized set of services and then you get like the skill necessary to hire people to implement those services really well because with standardization there's not as much of a quality drop off as there is when like you know you the exceptional founder delegate something. Um, and that that's really where like the greatest agencies uh live. One of my friends and old clients, Joe Davies, he runs an agency called Fat Joe. I think they do like over 10 million a year. Um, he's a really good example of like an agency that's done so, you know, SEO productized content and stuff like that, but like they productize the nth degree and then they also have like really strong hiring practices, really good team culture, and yeah, you know, that's why they make over $10 million a year. — That's awesome. Yeah, I'm working on um just because I like I said, I've enjoyed voice. Um I'm working on uh like a productized voice um agent. So currently calling it voicemail pro um. ai is the website. And uh because as I've talked to different business owners, a lot of them, they all pride themselves on customer service, which is yeah, of course, but then I'm like, well, who talks to them when you're closed? Oh, well, they you know, get a voicemail or call back later. And you're like, so it's not the best customer service that you can provide. And so realizing that like doing miss calls and voicemail um kind of like a smart voicemail where it's an AI agent that this one would just be pretty cookie cutter just answers talks to them kind of if it qualifies that it's maybe kind of urgent it'll maybe try a different number that it has of the owner uh and try just to forward it so it you know makes like a warm transfer — and then if it doesn't then it'll just send an email recap of the conversation to the owner with the other person CCD saying hey this person has reached here's what they, you know, wanted help with. — Um, so at least that like feels better than just like leaving a voicemail, you know? You get immediate feedback, too, which is important. A lot of the time, you know, you get hit that voicemail and you're thinking like, oh, — I guess they're not there. I'm going to move on and call the next person on the list and then you just lose that business forever. But with you, it's like you're connecting with somebody and then there is some plausible deniability that is being handled and dealt with and if it's urgent, it will be handled and dealt with. It's a great system. — Yeah. And then like going up, so that's like the entry level like maybe $300, $500 a month. And then going up there is like more of the custom stuff that I've been doing where it's like we get into knowledge base, we get into this, we'll connect to your CRM, it'll do a lookup and check the and you know, just getting to way more like of the difficult custom stuff. Um, which it's not actually that difficult. It's more about the refining and making you know, managing expectations. That's the big — very true. — That's the big one, — dude. Your um $300 to $500 thing. I mean, it depends on the vertical and depends on the sort of business you're selling to. But I see no reason why you can't sell it for like five times that amount. I mean, if you consider just like on a monthly package basis, like the number of calls that occur outside of some defined business hour if it's a brick-and-mortar business or it's one that operates in like an 8 to 10 hour time window, like a lot of businesses, unfortunately, — you know, like a sizable portion of all of their inbound is coming at times that they're not available. Perspective inbound. Um, — you know, a lot of these businesses, man, they work like 9 to5. And it's like, well, that's when everybody else works, so they want to call it six. — That's like 30% of your business. If a company's making, let's say, 20,000 bucks a month. And if you can offer them a solution that allows them to recoup 30% of their business and make six grand a month, like you can charge like 1,500 to 2,000 bucks a month for that. Just letting you know. Um, just off the top of my head. — Okay. — Yeah, — that Yeah, that would be awesome. — Anybody that wants to buy this Cooper's website, right? Yeah, that's funny. My mom said the same thing. She's like, you should charge more than that. I was like, is it I feel like that's kind of I'm like, okay. — You're like, "Mom, you don't know anything about Wait a second. " — Yeah. — She knows about what you're worth, Cooper. — Exactly. If anyone does, it should be your mom. — True that. Uh, okay, man. Just last question. Do you have any advice to somebody that's watching this right now and thinking, you know, this sounds great. Online business sounds great. AI automation sounds great, but I don't know if I could do it. — Oh, yeah. I would 100% say that learning AI and automation is one of the most valuable skills right now. The adage that everyone's saying is AI won't take your job, but someone who uses AI will. — Um, and I think maker school, you put it together in such a good way. Like even if you don't want to run an agency, like you're going to learn the skills and learn like how to get work that you're going to be getting paid to learn, which is kind of crazy. Um because there's so much work out there. Um and that people are willing to take a bet on someone if they know that you can get it done and work hard. And I think that one aspect of your school I found is unique is the community part of it. Um I asked a question in an AI um community and I asked it in yours. Uh and the other one got zero and this is a very expensive paid community big YouTuber guy. Uh and um it was a simple question around like hey when I build someone an automation do I build it under my account or their account? What do I do? No replies. And then yours had like five replies and then you came in also and replied and it was like holy cow. Like that's insane to uh this community that's actually fairly cheap was able to you know provide that level. One last thing that I think is really unique to your course that I've not seen in many and I' I've joined different masterminds is the whole accountability roadmap. Like that was just so good. Even though I only maybe did like one or two weeks cuz I then have been busy working. Um — that's a success. Damn. — Exactly. Um but it was just insane that you had like this whole thing like day two you're going to do this, day three that. And I was like okay. And it was just kind of nice like hey Nick there you are. All right. What do I do today? Um, and uh, I need to get back on the horse because I want to get a better like pipeline and be kind of doing that better, but I'm just been so focused on like fulfilling and doing fulfilling the best way I can. So, um, — makes sense. You know, there's a lot on productization months two and three. Um, I think as you proceed through it when you do eventually double back, like you'll probably answer a lot of those questions that you had about how do I pitch voicemail proi and so on and so forth. But dude, just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for both joining Maker School. Spending a whole day of that Uber salary on this program — made a really big difference. — It did. It was the best. Yeah. Risk. — Yeah. Talk about — I have savings. — No, I know. — My last $200. — What should I spend? Got that Ryan Gosling energy. Dude, you got like you got a lot of energies going on. I don't know. It's tough to say exactly which Ryan you are, — you know? — Hey, well, Ryan Gosling's a good-look dude. So, you know, if I if you're saying I have that, then I'll take it. I'll take to the bank. — Yeah. I figure like it's it also depends like which movie we're talking about. It's like — Oh, sure. — Ryan Gosling in like the in Barbie. — Yeah. That's a little bit — Ryan Gosling. — Like notebook, right? — Yeah. It's very different from Ryan Gosling and like Crazy Stupid Love or something. — You know, the Driver. I love that movie of Ryan. — Just a sprinkle of like the autism plus the badass. Yeah. No, I get it. I could see it. — Uh yeah. Well, yeah. Okay. — Just I'm just [ __ ] with you, man. — Yeah. — No, I uh I do really appreciate it, Cooper. The consistency and the dedication, getting the win, and then showing a bunch of other people just how possible it is as well. I very much appreciate that. Also, just a cool dude to get to know. So, thank you very much for the call, blessing us with your time, bud. — Yeah. Thank you. — All right.
