$100K/M AI Experts Discuss Job Loss

way back in the day everybody would always be like hey don't go broad go deep right cuz depth is what's going to secure you I think interestingly enough it's actually the exact opposite I even knew the guy who changed his complete career over decoding because he thought this is going to be safe and pure and I think Safety and Security attached to skill sets is going away there are certain things that don't need to be scalable and those are hard honest conversations with people in our groups and people on YouTube I think basically we're going to have like pre AI creators and post AI creators that's that AI model that has a crush on me with Technologies like this coming through the four if you just do one thing like if you're just a designer you know and this model comes out that's like domain specific and train specifically for design and it can do the text placement and the lighting of any um actor or whatever automatically like I was showing you guys a moment ago like how much longevity do you actually have in that role this new b m looks awesome thank you very much um what do you think about my lightsaber Jack actually jealous yeah are you on the light side of the force as I am um dude I think I might go sth Lord I think I like the purple the purple's quite unique you got some Sith Lord energy um but here's the problem I don't know how to turn this back any have this changing colors in your videos at the back no the idea behind this thing is um somebody told me that everybody's using light poles now and I just had to change Apartments like I'm in a different setup as you could see and uh apparently this is just like one of the quickest and easiest ways to like get any lighting setup good to go cuz you know like the way that it is shaped I mean I know it's screwing up the camera in the recording right now it essentially like diffuses the light outwards so you don't actually need a bunch of fancy stuff you can just put a light pole in front of you and get 90% of the way there I'm heading out to Dubai for couple weeks so I've got to do a like a move my setup over on a budget so like I'm just debating what to take and I think a light source

like that will be cool so the Dubai apartment's going to be like bro but we'll figure it out it's going to be pretty rough man not going to lie like I've heard that like in the summer bro pretty hot yeah well it's like I think everyone leaves for three or four months so um yeah it's gonna be hot I'm come back like the Black Panther man this trip okay you know I be very T by the time I get back yeah yeah can't wait to hear more about it man it's going to be awesome I'm just going to put that over there and hopefully people can at least see my face we're doing a little lowbudget thing today

um cool we got a lot to talk about Jack listen first of all it's great having you here man and um you know I appreciate that you have been consistently posting this podcast on your channel over the course of the last two or three weeks or however long it's been for those of you guys that don't know who Jack Roberts is does he even need an introduction I mean he runs the largest school community on AI automation on planet Earth he comes from an extraordinar entrepreneurial background he wears cool shirts and funky hats I mean is there am I missing anything here or have I just summed up your whole personality the shirt did it yeah jump to did it man what a beautiful inroduction man it's very kind of thank you yeah we got uh we got a lot to talk

about um some notes that I sent over to Jack right before this chat I want to chat about a new image model that just came out it's called rev image you have a chance to take a look at that check dude I haven't had a full detail mod so tell me what's your take on this one now um dude it's a crazy image model bro like I know we were just talking about how awesome it would be if we had like a jam like figure um to jump on but actually just before I get into that I want to chat like AI news I want to chat a little bit about um you know this model rev image a little bit about another model called character 3 how it's going to change the game and maybe some entrepreneurial opportunities that are going to result alongside that I want to chat about nadn um specifically the fact that they're raising 60 million freaking dollars to boost their presence and grow in the Bay Area that's huge uh and I also want to chat a little bit about Vibe coding because I saw you made a Vibe coding video where Jack literally constructed a sass app in like an hour it was nuts so yeah have a lot to think about Vibe coded yeah but that's exciting I love the agenda bro that's perfect yeah so it's going to be really fun dude absolutely insane image quality coming out in this new model this was basically like Moonlighting is this one called half moon for quite a while where people like they didn't um this company rev image sort of just like came out of nowhere but essentially this thing is capable of producing any arbitrarily complex image not just uh like pictures of people or animations or whatever but if you go a little bit further check this out are you seeing this right now this is chis these are like text based like look at that man look at that um look at the coherence and the congruence on the text look at these ads that these things are making it's the font it's a typography it's like it the one they always strugle to get text in but it's like how good is the text this is typography this is ex exactly this has solved that and so anyway I guess to make a long story short um the reason why this is so exciting to me in part I is because I think that these AI models have been at the point where like you could make cool pictures and stuff uh for a while you know you could do like cartoon anim like I actually got my start in AI funly enough check with um with an anime image generator where I just wanted to like generate a bunch of images of like anime characters and I found that it was pretty good at that but you know anytime you tried to get more complex like move away from art and more into design which I think is obviously where all the money is um Quality tanked because it was unable to understand how to put a word together understand letter placement stuff but this model is finally at the point where you can and it's not just that it can do so extraordinarily well so my thoughts are this is going to massively disrupt like the design industry which up until now has been using AI uh image generators as a tool to like create backdrops or color gradients or whatever um but I think this is like literally the point where it's going to be putting designers out of jobs like tomorrow the second that this model drops yeah and we've come out of what I would describe as the alarm Bell part of the curve which is this is getting kind of close you know the the tides are getting kind of high like we're up to our waist but we're not drowning yet and then it just takes that slight step change where it goes from you can see the potential to actually physically working I've always had that same observation bro that image gen's really cool getting text on it is really cool but you often find yourself doing 16 to 20 different

variations to try and get the text slight to the right to actually have a model that does that and a really congruent when it's excellent and crucially has a typography now n i knew you're stick for typography man I myself included so for me I think that's sex delicious dud that's good it's kind of given your general standard Creator or business like the opportunity to make production designer grade level materials and actually if it can do the hard thinking so one of the things that we find it come to Vibe coding later but they D like you say hey design me a sexy app right what how have you defined that AI doesn't always know what great design looks like so that's kind of that like additional value layer that these businesses add like they say hey we will pre-code and pre-built in understandings of what good typography and good text and good design is so the image G models could be this I mean I guess that's I'm assuming that's what this company's done is add that additional um translation layer from user input to the generation models which I think is really sick D and I i' I'd see myself using that quite a lot Agreed 100% I think that when I see changes like this happen I wonder as to how quickly we're going to see the major economic impacts that you know you and I have been talking about right one thing I always get in my community and I'm sure you get as well is like Nick Manis just came out and uh you know it can now sign up to websites and I don't know fill out forms and do all this fun stuff is my work as an AI automation agency like screwed am I just like totally destroyed is there no hope or no future for me I think that people like us actually have the most job security by far out of anything with

Technologies this coming through the four if you just do one thing like if you're just a designer you know and this model comes out that's like domain specific can train specifically for design and it can do the text placement and I don't know like the lighting of any um actor or whatever automatically like I was showing you guys a moment ago like how much longevity do you actually have in that role and like that domain specific role I think interestingly enough way back in the day everybody would always be like hey don't go broad go deep right because depth is what's going to secure you I think interestingly enough it's actually the exact opposite it's people that you know like entrepreneurs for instance or people that are in roles that require you to integrate a bunch of desparate information into one thing High agency sort of roles that require you make decisions that are realistically the most insulated from this sort of like major disruption to um you know like the workforce and I think that those are the ones that are going to last the longest so I know that this not 100% to do with rev but I was just curious to hear your thoughts on that dud I think that's really well said it's emblematic of what's happening at every Arab and I think just to like zoom out a little bit for AI automates it's like you have these different streams of technologies that are developing at a very rapid pace and many of them are on Crash courses to collide into one another like we spoke about didn't we bro in my last podcast about um Sesame which is this aite Tech that is on a direct Collision Course with game development game design so you have all these separate Technologies and once they combined the technology feels like it takes a whole jump Le forward so that's why I always say you need that breadth General awareness of what is even if you don't want to be an image specialist it's good just to be aware of it because you will find different ways to ingrate it and bake it into your park somewhere Sesame um you mean Maya right that's that a model that has a crush on me yeah dude she she's inous G I actually spoke to Miles dude he um actually funny I I was chatting my girlfriend had me laughing dude I was like this is really funny dude he's a funny guy that I say right miles the first thing he says get the hell away from Maya what are you yeah dude he's not quite as flotation he's a little bit more aggressive actually mat so can I say dude they um you know they launched the API for that right I saw that man yeah oh sorry it's not an API my bad my bad I think it's the SDK or whatever like it's on GitHub you can access it and you can like use it for your own stuff you just need to whip up a server and have it running you got Local Host it yeah you can't do it for like I'm really I'm wondering about that like I should play around with that that'd be so cool it'd be really cool yeah I mean like the it's better than the open AI one I think yeah for sure like then um real time assistants realtime voice assistants yeah I was thinking about uh just the swarm of AI girlfriend apps that are just going to like be created sometime the next few years and it's just gonna be freaking it's GNA be nutty I know we chatted on that last week so I'm not going to cover it but yeah they're definitely going to be popular well it already exists right like you've seen those influences that kind of fractalize their personality um with images and stuff like and people already paying that I think one guy was doing multiple six figures with his girlfriend you serious already happening yeah already holy crap dude should be pimping out AI models now you know like that's H you've heard of the whole like only fans agency business model my friend was really interested in this a while ago and you know putting aside like moral and ethical whatever the hell you want to call it um I know a few people that were printing money with this stuff were essentially you know like you help a model run their brand and then you I don't know you use AI to assist in like the responding to hundreds of thousands of messages a day um I wonder what sort of opportunities this is going to open you know like if there's a will there's a way I guess but hey this is great job in the world isn't it so yeah I mean you just have to look at like candidly like what are the most popular websites are on the planet and people are using it like it's a fight you know what I mean so like if you can I mean like it was funny there was a guy I met once and he was always introduced as a guy that bought firewalls for prawn websites and I was like that was just like do like this guy went to MIT 7 so that was like his calling card and stuff and oh God that's a bit like everyone was like whispering that a little bit but like

you kind of like someone's got to do that right so like yeah dude all about to say it's definitely a boning industry and like did nothing to say from AI every industry is getting it like left 100% man I have so much more that I could talk about like porn and its impacts on technology more generally but just for pure distribution of this podcast I will stop here we'll do that another after hours po after when the coffee turns out for some old yeah um it's great that we were chatting about this because I think this leads really naturally into our next topic so um essentially just like we were talking about a moment ago you know you can generate these beautiful designs and stuff like that a new model came out just in the last week and a half or so called characters 3 I chatted about it on my Instagram this actually ended up being one of my U most viral videos but this is an AI generated image of a girl podcaster okay and essentially what you do is you feed this into hedra's character 3 which is the um company in the name of the model and then it allows you to take a text uh a text thing and then like it basically so check this out so there are some obviously issues on that side there that we saw with like an additional hand and that's just because the images um I don't know I think like The Wider frame images had more issues but imagine if you just cropped this okay yeah imagine you just crop this right in the middle this dude here as he's talking I mean these are like Pretty Natural and organic looking that really impressive yeah right there were a couple other ones check out this I mean Jack I would have told that I wouldn't spot that was AI immed yeah me neither bro me neither like I mean you know obviously there's still a couple of like image problems and stuff like that and I'm not going to dwell on those minor ones because I think it's just abundantly clear at this point like if you look at the tech that did that like a year ago it was like stick figures going like beep boop right like the ha Jun stuff you know as cool as it was yeah well it's your defect we're now at that like we've hit the 95% Mark it's now those like marginal improvements to get those so the little like the finger that appear and stuff those are getting less and less bro I think have you've seen you may have seen content on YouTube about this proliferation of AI generated media um it's especially becoming prevalent on Google I always thought Google was getting like I don't even use Google anymore personally yeah like it's just I just chat gbt it right it's also like as these things get better if I like if we were thinking about what's the opportunity for businesses my kind of lens on it is that you are going to reach a point soon enough we don't know what date specific speically but this generated content will become a commodity you know the guy who's 17 in his basement in Arkansas can use it just the same guy as the meteor expert who's 45 and freaking Birmingham what whatever it is why why Arkansas there something to say about the arkansans or what watching this let that was for you Legend um the point is like um it becomes commoditized so I actually think and I get a lot of questions I don't if you get to SP about how you scale and create faceless video content and stuff yes and you can make money from that 100% I fact you know I've expect people to do multiple you know 10 you know 10K 20K a month with that but I I'm of the view that it is a one of the lowest leverage applications of your beautiful knowledge that you can have and I think the more that this becomes a commodity there's always these fractions of opportunities that appear and emerge until someone else jumps on it so I saw this to say that the big opportunity I believe is in your personal brand anding a uni identity online and using your own unique voice that will become the prized asset it will be made by humans as opposed to made in the UK or made in calg or whatever um so I think that's Direction I'm going to so if you're a bit of a hacker a kind of trend Hunter I weaponizes to generate income in the short term if you want to optimize for generating income long term I would lean into authentic natural organic personal content yeah I've heard it said that we really only have like a couple of years left to make a personal brand from scratch because the next couple of years is going to feature like a a veritable torrent of content just like this and like let's be real you know you and I we can only make like a few videos per day we only have so many new insights and cool pieces of knowledge we could share and ways to motivate our audience to actually get out there and do the work right I mean how much more content could you generate with some model trained on my face that like looks just like me I mean supply and demand right like if there are 100,000 videos s such similar videos that are posted on a daily basis right now then in a few years there's going to be like 100 million um so I mean like I think the bar for content is going to go up but that that's one really interesting concept I guess that I've heard about and that's one of the reasons why just to be transparent about my own brand strategy I focus so much more on authenticity than I think a lot of other people do and I focused more on just like crazy long form content where you just hear me breathe and like go down some shitty detour that doesn't amount to anything cuz I actually think that is going to gain a massive premium when there's so much of this perfect amazing AI influencer content stuff out there like this this Trove that I built and also like this authenticity and like reputation for being positive like I think all of that it's almost like it compounds you know what I mean just like compound interest it's just I think it's going to compound way faster than like actual interest I think um I think basically we're going to have like pre-ai creators and post AI creators and then I think like you know we should be doing you and I and other people that are watching this that are maybe starting we should do literally everything in our power to like become the pre aai Creator um to be known for producing content in the pre AI world do you think that's because

when AI reaches a level where it becomes somewhere indistinguishable the volume of comparable content will just be so high people won't be clicking on new brands yeah I mean like there's only so much like search engine space right like I think that Discovery algorithms will get better at showing specific types of content to the specific types of people that want to watch it but like I mean how quickly is Humanity growing you know what I mean like 8 billion people today um how long is it going to take for us to get to 9 billion which is like a 12. 5% increase in total population comparatively how much longer is it going to take for us just to get to a 12. 5 increase in the amount of content on the internet well that's probably going to happen in like a week you know what I mean like the amount of content out there is vastly outpacing the number of people out there and the number of user seconds available to watch specific people so that's a good point if you look at the supply and demand there is a finite number of attention points and minutes available per person to invest in platform the question is why invest it with you versus any else but on Instagram I came across an account called AI Surfer and you may have seen this guy yeah I've heard of this guy yeah yeah this guy um it's all AI generated it's kind of haen his head doesn't move very much so you can tell he's kind of an AI but Bros got over 400,000 followers I think last time I checked so it obviously there is a strategy that works like you can do it for sure if you want to on Instagram um I think I saw this guy yeah it's like the key thing is like and it's so cool I always bring back to YouTube because I freaking love YouTube but um it's also like your brand is something that is an asset that follows you definitely like it's like if you don't want to talk about AI image gen in the future it's great to have an audience that have trust in what you do what you cover and I think it's worth doing that like the cost of doing that only in increases of time and it's a beautiful opportunity to do that I think and you can still leverages Tech and stuff it's just like I always say to people you're you know let if you're going to spend your beautiful brain investment points on something let's solve bigger problems let's do something huge but it's very popular people really love doing that stuff it's massive yeah for sure I was watching a couple of other guys on Instagram and I was like some seems a little bit weird about this content there's like you know these fast-paced reals that are similar to what I'm doing which is mostly news-based content and like first second and a half it's like hey in this video we're going to talk about and then it immediately Cuts right but then I kind of like I zoomed way in and then I realized like the hand placement was the exact same in every video every single one was like Hey in this video we're gonna hey in today's video we're gonna and I was like holy is this all Ai and dude like hit me like a ton of bricks bro this guy had I think over 50,000 followers on Instagram which is about my size now and I was like could I have just not recorded anything like I just done all this in my boxers like what the hell it's crazy that's why you're W that and you I've seen a few lazy ones I saw one uh what was it now Grant Cardone did one where like was like hey this is gr Cardone and it was like really badly generated voice Ai and like the com like it's like if you do it like incorrectly you flame you have to get that like beautiful like sweet spot if you're going to crush it that's a really interesting point the social cost of being an authentic Creator who is caught using AI that's really interesting so one thing that I was championing um over the course of the last year was responding to every single one of my comments on my own and I spent a few days dude going through YouTube and I responded to like every single comment I had gotten up until I was like 20,000 followers so some something around that point and I had you know I started talking about I was telling people about this like dude you're responding to every comment what are you freaking crazy what are you nuts like dude like that there's no leverage in that where yeah I thought you were the automation guy dude automated it and I was like well actually like I feel like that's like a completely underutilized resource I feel like every com comment that I leave is a statue that I am building a testament to myself as like a human being that spent the time to resp like I feel like that adds so much more authenticity and then I had somebody uh bring it up to me and it was like dude you know like I trained a model on all of the text you know all the stuff you've ever written and then I actually went and I responded to a bunch of YouTube comments like you know thinking pretending that I was you like I didn't post them I just drafted them and then he sent over a bunch to me and I was looking at him like holy that's basically exactly what I wrot my God but then but then I was just like man like what would the social cost be of this if somebody like kind of like found out that I was using AI to respond on them and it wasn't actually me do you know what I mean I actually think that would be huge dude especially for Brands like ours where it's like okay people like us they like our personalities they like what we do and I was like I can't so I decided a long time ago I'm not going to touch that with a 10- foot pole like if you're if I'm responding to one of the comments it's me responding to the comment you know what I mean it's not going to be a model robot you could chat with a Nick

to be a robot you could chat with a Nick chatbot if you want but like you're going to do that I'm not going to like pretend or whatever you transparent about that saying D it was like I'm actually for saying like every post I do in my community it's written by Jack 100% yeah you're right it's like well okay it may be right but my gosh to people it just on it destroys everything it's like oh my gosh it's all AI generated and is it there's a kind of plasticky um I guess it says hey I don't value your time enough to spend my precious time quoting this content so I've just it so it's like you need to be indistinguishable if you're going to do that but I think that's good I think you can never be too close to your customers you can never spend enough time speaking to people and having conversations like that's the boring dirty, thousand actions that get the results um that people just don't want to do and like I don't think you because you know you and I bro you know we're scale Centric and we that stuff it's also like there are certain things that don't need to be scalable and those are hard honest conversations with people in our groups and people on YouTube I think that's like I think that's really well said man agree 100% also if you think about it statistically speaking like if your average post or your average comment gets I don't know a thousand or 10,000 views or something like that and if you just leave like 20 every day for the next 10 years like you will actually reach the vast majority of human beings that are out there that could be interested in your content like I was thinking about that as well I was like do I really need AI to do this stuff no I don't like if I just continue talking there is already inherent scale built into media as a as a tool of Leverage that like you know I'm just going to keep being myself for as long as seemingly possible and who knows man if a big AI Overlord comes and turns us on a paperclip so at least have tried it's also your 20 coms are seen by other people so it's like get like visibility in every one of those comments as well so yeah d i think that's really well said it's like we always talk about where AI but there's also times when not to use AI right exactly this point I think it's yeah really good point though damn right speaking about AI um nad's raising $60 million Eh this is interesting to me yeah so what's the digging into what they've done I don't if there's an article L but like have they said why they're raising 60 mils let me pull it up alongside you um I mean you know like there's stated reasons right and then there's like actual reason yeah anytime a company makes a PR statement it's like we're raising it to help divver and help increase access to AI models you know what I mean it's like all right sure bro I'm okay I'm looking at it right now Berlin Bay Ann said and now has over 3,000 Enterprise customers around 2,000 active users on its books they're going to use the series B to continue investing in Tech and expanding your markets like the us home to more

than half of nen's user base so it seems to be that a big chunk of it is this is like a like an EU based company right Berlin headquartered they're raising this money to penetrate the American Market um they're raising this money essentially to like uh one of my friends and one of the people in my community they're actually interviewing for around as like a community manager I'm for Iden right now and the whole stated purpose of this is to uh I think it's to like improve visibility in like the San Francisco area so I think like I think they're actually trying to like migrate into the center of tech worldwide with this money yeah because they did a according to a series a for 13. 5 mil four years ago yeah now they're on that series B for 60 million yeah interesting um well dude they've really blown up recently I mean like the prevalence of AI these NOCO platforms I mean they're only going to increase time and it's just interesting to me that they're really building down I'd love to know what their price per their sort of like profit per customer is I'd be very to know what that number is because lots of people are self housed to it and I'd love to know what the percentage of people who doing that are so I'd love to business give Steelman the na10 business model bro where do you think like most of the control I mean if I were to steal man it obviously they're getting tremendous amount of market share just in terms of like sheer percentage of people using their tools versus other no code tools by offering the self-hosted open source version okay so tremendous amount of market share um but they don't turn they're not making money out of it right now right yeah so that said I mean like imagine a future where everybody uses naden like every like 80% of people or whatever and then imagine naen produces some extraordinarily simple and cost- effective and very low lowcost things that's just a no-brainer for most people to like I don't know add on some Plugin or some extension or whatever imagine that like it's just a few bucks a month I mean like they would instantly I don't know what the user base is right now how many millions of people are using this thing that's a good question that's I think that'd be a really good to figure out yeah check let's check it out Jamie pull it up oh right we don't have a Jamie do we need a Jamie we're hiring for a Jamie roll if you're AI Jam down Bel the comment Okay so allegedly 230,000 active users so okay and I wonder to be I reckon that surged up to be fair quite recently I wonder be priz 3 that so they have the Enterprise customers like what that offer is for the Enterprise customers because make is a good example they are double Downing massively in their Enterprise clients because they're just worth way more right if you're look if you make for instance right you get paid more uh based on operations there basically usage and frequency and embedding the operations and then there's the friction of a leading platform like uh like I had even someone reach out to me on school saying hey we're whoop come and join us is like no like obviously not because you're not just going to like upro your platform right and school's awesome I love school yeah so it's like when you get these NOCO platforms that really integrate with the business like the transition costs get so high that you kind of have like inbuilt sticky this with that corporate client which is why if you're selling a business like that is a good kind of like nice X plus Factor so from n's perspective I wonder if they're similar in a sense that they say hey we want to Broad Market penetration we recognize there a people that will self host because N1 10 appeals primarily to I'd say more developer Le individual it's not you know I I wonder where their cor Revenue comes from I wouldn't be surprised with Enterprise but I don't their offer is for Enterprise so very interesting I think I could see that as being their strategy yeah they just frontload the self-hosted thing popularize the hell out of it um you know get behind large AI based initiatives like model context protocol mCP like their you know the community node is out and uh they're they're now bundling uh you know I saw a developer the other day on NN saying that like they're bundling in um mCP or something of that nature um to make it like a core part of their platform so maybe the reason why they're doing all this and pushing it is just because there is such an entrenched no code Market with Enterprise clients like make to come they just have to make this thing like a total no-brainer like you know an Enterprise client might be paying I don't know $10,000 a month or something like $155,000 a month for the operations usage of something like make. com thing where you can self host it for free unless you're they have some kind of Revenue cap on it I think yeah I mean like yeah but how are they going to enforce it in practice you know what I mean like dude like there's going to be hundreds of thousands of people that are going to be using this thing and they're it commercially and they're not going to be but like what's you know how's NN going to know like unless there's some sort of like baked in Telemetry inside of it and it's open source right so if that were to happen couldn't you just like swap that little function out I uh I don't know it seems to me like they're basically trying to be more like infrastructure than ass sass you know it's almost like infrastructure is a service it is yeah Le yeah I think that's should play I mean like the big money seems to be an Enterprise um even with like your general Joe blogs individual solar preneur yeah for example he's using make he's not spending that much realistically person on the platform like all of your big Roi comes to Enterprise clients I think what it says to me the fact they're doing such a significant raise is a really big growth signal for the group and as you expect the proliferation of AI and the use of automation to grow n10 would be a platform that you'd expect to smash it I mean bro you and I have spoken to lots of people who are creating their own n8n not n8n but their own platform like Lindy AI is a good example of one make's one zapier's one there's also some other smaller ones that are coming up and it's a growing Market it really is and I know several people that use multiple of them so it's not even a zeros some game with these platforms that's a good point I didn't really think about that um it really isn't a zero sum game I mean the reality is that you know like all of these tools can basically do all the same things they're all like Turing complete from a computer um science perspective right like you can do what you can do and make in naden it's just like slightly different in order to do so in the same vein you could do what you could do in Java in Python do you know what I mean like it's like a different programming language a different tool to get the job done so yeah um I'm pretty jazzed about this I think that naden you know like we one major issue that we talked about before that I see a lot of naden guys and girls that like you know the platform and want to make money with it do is like it's just so much more Technical and there's usually just some of these more soft barriers to like actually going and deploying something like with self-hosting it's little things like oo and whatnot that the the the base tends to be more developer friendly and developer oriented and because it's they tend to get caught up in the weed they don't actually know how to use it to make money but I do think that like you know with this much uh funding behind it and then with this growth this massive growth and dissemination I think it's just a matter of time before naden gets a lot more userfriendly as well and they solve things like the ooth BS or you having to set up like a Google Cloud console account for every integration you know like I think it's just a matter of time and when that happens yeah well it's also like I mean my last my first tech startup actually we would Creed loads of different businesses in the UK and every single one of them had a completely different process and we wanted to standardize that we were like Hey we're going to take the bullets for

you br Nick we're gonna like we're going to deal with all these companies for you but then every single business needed a really specific different thing and that is how you begin to create I wouldn't say emotes but it's it's good like if you can integrate and MTP is a good example with different softwares and stuff but you the more you can standardize and simplify what those processes look like the better more advantageous that is and they just have to keep on adding 5% 5% every single year or every single month or whatever to make that whole process super simple make is you know if you're a business owner it just wants a quick Automation and you're going to say look na10 may have X it's just going to be quicker to do it to make pick up and learn it so for sure I think that's solvable by n make doesn't have a you know a patent of making things simple like anything but there's like nice little you like it's actually it comes back to design right it's how they don't make me think like I think in this 60 million what I would like in end is you to hire a freaking be beef out your UI team beef out like our sole job is to make this look freaking sexy and just like that's what I think like I genuinely think that you'd be getting such a good r with that investment dude same or like some simpler hotkeys or some like extraordinarily simple onboarding process that just shows the average person how to save 30% building or I don't know it's like little things when like you add a node like why do I have to click on that little plus freaking that little plus button which is a tiny little thing in order to add the node you know what I mean like have some sort of Auto magnet thing on your cursor like there are so many these tiny little ux changes that just like make it so much easier for and so much less clunky for newbies that um I think when they get a yeah when they get somebody competent on board I'm sure they'll figure it out well dude let me ask the next questions either man so let's say and make okay they're all converging around okay you know you seen the PS the controllers right like you PS5 Xbox they're all the same right yeah it's and same with cars like give or take stuff and this idea that like over time once an industry becomes mature like there is a defined like thing that works we are not there yet with these no code and AI like platforms right my question be once you get to that certain point like because where we're sort of heading with this icy is text to automation that's kind of like the Holy Grail I mean Zach started with that like I want an automation connect to my Gmail and blah blah XYZ and the automation develops where do you see that like affecting the automation space man like especially from an agency point of view I've got some racy takes on this but I've interested like looking down the barrel a couple of years what you think is happening with that yeah man it's really cool that you're you're mentioning this because the way that I've always envisioned this and I clearly clicked the wrong button on my lightsaber since it's changing colors the way that I've always envisioned this uh working is just like all cars get more and more aerodynamic because it's just more like you know technically efficient um I think all of our user interfaces will just get closer and closer to what I'm calling a uni box okay kind of like instantly is uni box you screw around instantly right instantly yeah the cold email tool whatever they this thing called a unibox it's like some big email thing anyway it's not actually like that what I guess I mean is um you know if you have a Mac or whatever and you press command in space there's this little Spotlight search thing that pops up okay imagine that but for just anything you could ever possibly want to do so imagine yeah I mean like chat gbt is already doing this lovable bolts already doing this like all of these like you know Vibe coding Builders and even no code tools with like the make. com AI assistant you put in what you want and then it interprets it in natural language and it'll actually spin up an interface for you on the Fly using Code so that you could do whatever the hell you want and the more sophisticated this Market gets alongside the more capable these tools get I think just the more that all of them are going to Verge on this unibox sort of idea just one little chat box where it's like you know what do you want to do today I want to do X Y and Z it goes in on its back end it spins up like a user interface that's like specific and relevant and it's good for you it knows your history it knows what sorts of user interfaces you like you're good at dealing with and capable of and then you know like it like whips it up so I actually think that the moat of like the vast majority of these SAS companies is like you know there there's a very short amount of time that we can like actually make a valuable SAS company or something because in a few years you'll literally just be able to type the SAS that you want in the uni box it'll whip it up for you um ephemerally for like you know I don't know like an hour or whatever and then you'll do the thing that you want to enrich some leads it's like I it'll like create a little dashboard for you and then you just like Okay click here to upload your leads for instance um that's fascinating yeah I think that's the way that things are tending I may be wrong actually yeah that's a really good point the okay I would I would like differentiate that between user and business okay yeah good point differentiation with business is like which I think you're thinking about as well is it's integrating with their systems because like they have so many different Legacy systems so the question is like how do you weave the things weave these things in for you and I who were like how do I do with X Y and Z we'll just be up I actually think that's a really that's an really interesting perspective like I thinking about that actually that like actually these apps I mean imagine Li b as a one out of 10 or B not new right what does five out of 10 look like what does the 10 you are literally talking genuinely transformational things like Vibe coding is so freaking cool I guys like personal story on this like my last tech startup I bought on ctm P him Sweat Equity we so he made some cool money if I were rebuilding that today I wouldn't need to do that I wouldn't like genuinely speaking you could and he's awesome he's very talented but it wouldn't be necessary now that's how far the technology is coming on so this period of sass we've got this really unique window bro I think you're right with that where um basically we've not seen all the sasses that are being made or being made in this last year actually come to fruition yet because what we've done as aable creatives or business people with tools to create and effectuate the technology it used to be the case like when I was doing like fundraising and I was like having conversations and stuff they would say who's the technical co-founder they almost wanted a technical co-founder on the team one of you need to be I said well that is not me I am not the technical right I can spell the word technical but I can't Cod really I can't it's like yeah it was like it was almost like don't bother unless one of use a Cod like that's completely like I don't think bro like if you said five years ago they'd say that's never changing and now it's completely changed yeah I would 100% agree dude I 100% agree when I saw um if you guys haven't checked out Jack's video on how to build like a I think it's called how to build a 1 million doll sasap with lovable and stripe or something of that nature start for bushing but um I like I just watched it earlier today and I was like I was blown away I mean I'd play around a little bit with the stuff but you know just I could tell you like youd build a couple of these and you sort of knew how to like prompt it and you kind of you know you you understood it uh to a deeper degree than I did but I just I couldn't believe that there was this moment where you like you were trying to hook up the payment feature or something and then you were like I want to hook up this payment feature and then I think it said okay great just Supply me your private key and this and then you were like you copied and pasted the private key and this and it's like all right cool I'm setting it up right now I couldn't believe that because when I set up my SAS app um for one second copy which is my old content writing company which we skilled a 92k a month we spent probably like a week

dude just trying to hook up stripe to the back end to be able to process credit you did it in like five minutes max it was insane to me like my job was I was like you can do that sometimes it feels like if I'm not constantly scrolling through thousands of lines of new AI news and using every tool that I'll miss out but I understand that that's the exact trap that I try and get people in my community to avoid which is the shiny object syndrome still though I think Vibe coding more generally is just a movement is dope as hell man and I think that um I was thinking about like you know how you and I were talking about potentially creating a sass of some kind and how our SAS we would want it to be something simple something extraordinarily straightforward and something that just adds a tiny bit of value to a process that people in our Niche are doing on a daily basis anyway some sort of lead enrichment or some sort of qualification or scoring autores I don't know like there's a million of things that we could do obviously and I was thinking about it and you know we were chatting we're like hm should we hire you know should we hire somebody if so how are we going to hire somebody what sort of like responsibility should we give them to help us with this stuff like dude when I see that I'm like do we even need to hire somebody bro like are you just going to be the dev you know what I mean just G sprinkle on some lovable magic or some bolt. Dev magic or whatever and we'll just like make the app in like three hours and start selling it dude it is genuinely phenomenal and like this Vibe cating and Sass that like that the brother and sister in the way it's like the thing I would say bro and like it's interesting to talk about that video particular because like if you want to spin up a minimal viable product right so in other words hey we've got this cool idea we think people are going to dig it uh the idea right is short as path towards how do I validate that hey someone thinks this is cool and they want to buy it this is amazing for that I mean it's amazing for you can build for applications of course actually though you can spin this up in an hour like we did in the video and you can put it in front of a customer who can put their credit card details in and buy it was like you know and actually guys you could have that fully and maybe you don't even have cryp attack I mean we used to say like um the classic MVP you you'll probably laugh at this make you remember this was website image buy now and you just track the number of clicks on it like now you can actually deliver the product as well right deliver the product at the same time if you can think it and you're willing to sit in front of a computer with a coffee and enough time you can make it happen and that's what's really flipping cool essentially it's this theory of constraints like there's a constraining factor and I I've had to T Dar this from my point of view it's like we've now removed the constraining factor from technology to somewhere else that's kind of what's Happening here and it doesn't there's no value in having a super duper Cod I mean like what we need to look at is like what are the big guys doing Mata for example um you look at what they're doing with their devs and what are the devs doing now like the number of jobs available for developers like realistically when I was at school um they were saying you need to learn coding if you want to live in the in the future right which is so I don't know if you heard that bro but they yeah totally B said to like you got to L code you have to L code I even knew of a guy who changed his complete career over to Cody because he thought this is going to be safe and I think Safety and Security attached to skill sets is going away like there is no jum anymore there is know if I just can do this you need to play Infinite games you need to attach yourself to different things and with the S that Nick and I were talking about we were thinking well weren't we bro in terms of what are the most common problems that you and I see that we think we could solve in a really crisp beautiful beautifully designed place that delivers it really quickly and whatever the thing is it does that if we stick to doing that we wouldn't get married with technology we would say hey we'll just figure out what works what needs to be done and then deliver it yeah we'll figure works now and that is probably not what going to be what is working in a year from now but that's a cool thing I love your point around there is no skill-based job security anymore I think there's a meta skill which is learning skills and I think that that's really the thing basically being high agency is the skill you know if you're a high agency person and if you can like if that's the skill that you improve your entire life then it doesn't matter what skill is in or out of fashion at that moment in time like you'll figure it out and I mean yeah you know I I'm really grateful to entrepreneurship for letting me cultivate that high agency skill I don't think you need to be an entrepreneur start a business in order to do that but a lot of the time in order to succeed in business you do need to be high agency so it filters people out right as well bro that like it's actually baffling to me and I we're probably in a like a I'm say we not I wouldn't say an echo chamber but we are in everyone that you and I see and think about on a daily basis you know wakes up saying the word AI but like you know my sister for example she's a HR professional you know she does well what she does she doesn't even use chat GPT I went to a dentist Nick and the guy was like hey Jack have you ever heard of trat GPT I was like never you're like nope tell me yeah what's it doing these days and you he was a degree educated early 30s like

even this other gu SP how what do you use AI for and I I constantly find myself having these questions like I don't know this is probably more people than not actually who are not even at the chat GPT level yet we are so far at the edge of the stuff that's happening it's easy to forget actually the demand V is this a plot absolutely and also I think now that you're putting it that way the Leverage that people like us have because we're so early is massive if you think about it you were talking about your dentist earlier in chat GPT right like if that dentist used flexible AI processes in their firm or you know in their clinic or whatever how much more efficient or effective would that business be I think it boils down to you and I and other creators in the space essentially having a responsibility almost like a duty to literally make the economy more efficient because if 99. 9% of people don't even know how to drag and drop a module across the screen and we are of the gifted minority of people that do and if we help a business drag and drop a module across the screen we can impact the lives of you know hundreds or thousands of people at that dental clinic over the course of the next years like doesn't that isn't that just such a beautiful thing Jack to like be able to help people do so at like one of the highest points of Leverage this early on in all of this massive explosion of Technology I agree bro and if you think about like how much wealth generation is happening at the moment people it's like there's created value and captured value and that's the captured value but the actual trickle down created value of that like the jobs that exist that never existed before the people that are now able to quit and do different things like the economical impacts of what we do in AI automation is insane actually like if you really think about it like in for example if you would just to break down step by step right you create content on a automation awesome then a client sees that says Hey I want to work with Nick I'd like to work with Jack or whatever and then they go and they do this they implement the processes they have like a core marginal effect on their business they can then hire new people so now you know Steve McQueen that lives at 72 bendo Avenue has now got a job because the dentist has my money inable Capital to hire one to do V and it's like the trickle down economics of it are freaking unbelievable which is why I'm kind of like I'm optimistic about um markets in general at the moment because we've not seen the full effect of AI really across his businesses so I think that's something that you know I'm thinking about little bit at the moment it's like okay knowing what I know about the fact that the actual technology because like some people compare it to like cryptocurrency in a sense which I think it's very different than that but they say one comparable Factor could be the Hy but the key difference is this is actually changing like I can point to a billion examples of how this is actually in the real world change the way people do things you couldn't really say that for some of the

Technologies necessarily so dude that blows my mind and I think like the economic impacts absolutely huge all that to say now is the best time ever to get involved and learn this skill set uh and it's I don't know if you think of this but it's you will never complete it you are essentially becoming a lifelong learner of this technology you are essentially committing yourself to indentured servitude of shiny objects engine just like a hell of your own making exactly yeah 100% bro I could hell yeah Jack listen man anything else you wanted to cover dude I think that's beautiful I think we covered some fresh stuff um dude I think that was beautifully said man me too man I'm really stoked to get this podcast out if you guys don't already know Jack please make sure to check out that lovely YouTube channel of his I'm also seeing you pop up all over Instagram and Linkedin um really appreciate your time my man looking forward to the next one good to see you cheers