57-Minute Marketing Masterclass l Young and Profiting

social media for the first decade plus was very simple it was like email marketing you would get as many people to follow you as possible and then you would post and a percentage of those people would see it that intra scrap algorithm is now going to eat up everything cuz it's better it keeps you on the platform longer let's use common sense you're now 27 you went on Facebook at 18 the people you followed are people you met like one night hooking up or at a random party or whatever and now you're seeing posts of them like them in Ohio with their ant and you're like I don't give a [ __ ] but just like email we don't unsubscribe from our [ __ ] list we just delete it or archive it or like we don't put in the work to clean up our [ __ ] so you kept seeing [ __ ] you didn't give a [ __ ] about which made you not spend 4 hours on it made you spend 14 minutes on your feed then you go to Tik Tok and you're seeing unlimited [ __ ] that you [ __ ] with and 4 hours later you're like what the [ __ ] just happened yeah that's good for Tik Tok that was bad for Facebook now all of them are going to be like Tik Tok and every social network is going to have the for you page DNA in them for quite a while now maybe forever cuz it's more humanly true attention is the number one aspect Gary welcome to Young and profiting podcast thanks for having me I'm so excited you know you have been one of my Inspirations as a marketing expert as an entrepreneur I've been listening to your advice for a long time and one of the things that I really respect about you is that you're always giving consistent productive positive advice very different from other leaders out there you really spend time with The Underdogs with the small dogs and so my first question to you is why is being humble and having humility so important to you and why do you spend so much time teaching young entrepreneurs that's very sweet thank you um well why is it important to me first of all I would say that I got very fortunate I think it's in me it was if I'm analyzing at 48 years old it was in my DNA and then it was reinforced at scale by the person that probably gave me the DNA my mom so I think humility and it's interesting I appreciate you saying that I think I'm getting older people are seeing it in the action cuz you know I'm a interesting communicator and so you know I'm competitive and I'm Jersey and like you know I curse and you know I think early in my career I was very empathetic that like humble wouldn't be like what people first saw um but I'm very proud that as um later in my career the actions like for you it's easy as somebody watches carefully enough that it's something I'm very proud of and there's much that goes into it why is it important to me it keeps me I think it's an incredible trait I think it's a very attractive trait and I also strong competitive Advantage I think humility protects you from delusion it protects you from getting high in your own Supply uh and it it just protects you from a lot of things that I think are yucky for people that win you know like I enjoy being liked more by the people that actually know me than the ones that don't and there are many people that we all put on a pedestal that are living the reverse life yeah and so like it is in my Essence uh the reason I give back so much is I never want to get away from the kid in the dirt like I know where I came from it's important to me I'm aware that we live in a world now where I will literally say something on this podcast for sure because I'm confident in that that's my confidence that is going to have a positive impact on someone in a real way like actually and that is like incredibly fulfilling it gets me high uh and um I just I really almost don't like I'm so hardwired to understand why wouldn't I um but I'm very empathetic to why I wouldn't and why others don't I'll give you an example I have a friend who just like she believes like leaving the home like looking pristine is like the most important thing in the world and you know a mix of insecurity there sure but like in her soul like I know her well enough it's like no this is important how you present like I don't know if I'm taking a minute to get ready and go out and I get guy and girl there's things right but everyone's allowed to have things that are religious to them right yeah that are their North Stars for me being a nice person and providing back to the game that put me on is everything you know it's everything to me like entrepreneurship as a framework especially for kids that came from the dirt is what was the game that allowed me to have my life I must contribute to that game at all costs uh and that's that amazing well that's super powerful and I know that me and you actually have a lot in common we both have marketing agencies both entrepreneurs both have podcasts both bullish on LinkedIn both grew up in New Jersey so part of jerse Watchung New

Jersey oh I know it very well the Watchung mall like the Toys R Us in the Watchung mall was like a very substantial spot for me in 1992 and three when I would pick up toys and flip them at Flea Market at Blue Star Mall that's what he's talking about was a cow door there as well back in the day all right anyway sorry go ahead yeah so we're both from Jersey um now I'm nowhere near as successful as you yet right so there's 500 million entrepreneurs I'm just one of them how are you how did you reach the top of Entrepreneurship like how are you so successful why are you an outlier when it comes to the other 500 million entrepreneurs out there um my perception of it is it's similar to the iconic people in other merit-based worlds sports music and entertainment like I think what's cool about business is Like You Can't Hide You know what I love about sports is like you can say you're good at it but you have to actually play one-on-one basketball and if you lose 11 nothing to your buddy that you said you're good at it you're not good at it same with business you could you know this you're growing up in an era like I grew where entrepreneurship was not cool you're growing up in Era where it went completely the other way everybody is and everybody says they are but are they you know I'm a rapper but am I and so couple things one I think because there's more entrepreneurs than ever but they're not really entrepreneurs they're aspiring entrepreneurs they have entrepreneurial Tendencies and so it seems like there's a lot more that's one so to your point out of all like the base is bigger when I was a kid the word didn't even exist you like I when I was 13 16 19 I'm like I'm going to be a businessman that would be the only word I would use I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was as a matter of fact the first time I even remember hearing the word it kind of seemed like the thing that like you were a loser actually like you said you an entrepreneur but like you were living on the beach and your parents like it had a really NE and then it went like completely other way so that's one two back to sports and music like Beyonce was born with her voice and like and her swag and her talents now she put in ungodly amounts of work as a child to today LeBron as a child I think where I really lucked out is I put in a work as a child in a world that almost nobody was doing what I was doing at the time like when I tell you I punted school like I don't believe that people will believe me when I say this but I know that the Adam blums and the gar van fleets and the Pam Moses's and Robin martz's and the Robbie turnic that grew up with me know this to be true in high school I did not do one homework assignment in all four years not one not only that somewhere around I believe sophomore year but it might even been second half of freshman year I for four years of high school did not open a book once I did not hand in one book report and I guessed on my Scantron all four years abcba all four I got zeros on tests I was 243 out of 254 in class rank I had a 1. 6 something GPA and I got a D in speech I went so to the extreme even today where entrepreneurship is allowed we're like a 14-year-old entrepreneur now we're like yo you got it like you're the next Zuckerberg right and we Champion them even those kids aren't 100% entrepreneur and completely punch school it's very rare so I think the reason I stood out was I put in way more work than everybody and had natural Talent yeah that's really the answer yeah and so I'm the same like I was always selling things as a young kid leading inventing things and so I was naturally an entrepreneur like right I dropped out of college to become an entrepreneur you know and so is very natural to me for people who don't take risks naturally who aren't naturally creative do you think they're cut out for entrepreneurship no if you I mean creative is different but risk is the requirement yeah because you're naturally risking from the second you start you are saying I am good enough to stand on my own two feet and I will either succeed in all of your faces or I will fail in front of all your faces and the majority of human beings on Earth do not have the stomach to fail in front of everyone's faces one of the other ways I could have answered your last question is because I'm not scared to lose yeah why did I achieve a lot because I wasn't scared yeah like you know like yep like and I'm very there's many things I was scared to do like I'm like I don't want to do jump out of a plane so I'm not a good plane jum like I

don't like but like when it comes to entrepreneurship my giving a [ __ ] about people's judgment on my failures is zero and it's been zero for so long that it's so ingrained in me and if you can't deal with judgment taking a step back you know how humility works when you make a lot do you know what it feels like you're going through a very interesting journey and so a lot of entrepreneurs right now one of the worst feelings in the world is to make a lot less money professionally than you used to because you once taste the alternative never making $100,000 a year and living $70,000 a year and being happy is one of the great lives of all time getting up to 400,000 a year but then having whatever happened that job loss new b side hustle lost like and going to 180 ooh that tough fineing first class and I never being able to afford it and now sitting middle seed coach that [ __ ] with people's psyches not me yeah not me up and as if like what are you going to say to me that's going to make me value your opinion in a world where I know you've got a lot of things not going well too okay so sticking on this being a successful entrepreneur I know something that you talk about often is doing what you love and how it's so important as an entrepreneur to actually do what you love or you're going to burn out correct so talk to us about that and how Vayner media is doing what you love I love that that's a great question doing what you love and also having the capacity to be comfortable with discomfort and being patient in eating [ __ ] is a very interesting Enigma and I appreciate the way you asked the question because it's going to allow me to double click into it uh the reason Vayner media and Vayner X the holding Co is me doing what I love it's because I'm willing to eat the crow and building this infrastructure to be the foundation of all my other future Behavior so is Vayner media my full Nirvana moment it is not but I like it I love operating I it sounds like you'll resonate with this when you're a real purebred entrepreneur you're happy selling anything yeah it's fun like I'll sell sneakers my fav thing to do that's right you know and so like okay like but I also have a I also have the capacity to be strategic make less money be uncomfortable like I worked in my dad's liquor store until I was 34 years old I need every kid to hear this I worked in my father's liquor store until I was 34 years old so I had patience that was in one side the reason I did it was I was so in thankful and grateful to my parents for bringing me to America and bring and like changing the course of my life and I love them and we very close in age my parents were 22 and 20 when they had me so we're like borderline friends and like it's the best and I knew that I believe that I was going to be a great entrepreneur and I somehow had the wisdom at 22 years old to say you know what I'm going to go in here and build something huge for my parents and then I'll have time to bounce out and go do it for myself that was the greatest decision I ever made but [ __ ] it was hard yeah like you know like working in like you know what I mean yeah a lot of people end up resenting their parents that they push them towards anything that's in the family business but you grateful I no my parents honestly they were agnostic like it was weird by the time I was 16 it was pretty clear to both my parents that I was good but they didn't go like the reason I love my parents is they didn't go weirdo on me and try to turn me into like a slave right they just it kind of just was we were all just kind of moving you know was very immigrant we're just like you know you're doing what you have to do and I walked into it like I was like let me I'm going to come and like wreck house and literally took you know Shoppers Discount Liquors and built Wine Library one of the biggest wine retailers in the country and everybody from watching went to Wine Library it was awesome and you know it was really a great chapter but [ __ ] I'd be lying to everyone if I didn't say like I'm unstoppable with judgment but I promise you 5 years after college at 27 when I'm working the floor helping people select wine during Christmas and some of my buddies that I grew up with now are in Wall Street and driving into our parking lot and their BMW and they're buying a case of Don perion and I'm carrying it out to their car and putting it into their trunk and I see the way they're looking at me like uh man and I know I'm gonna [ __ ] be bigger than everyone holding your breath is [ __ ] hard and I'm [ __ ] Unstoppable so if it even registered to me the normal person with their relationship with judgment [ __ ] that was hard yeah and the bigger thing that was

hard was my dad was not paying me that much money when I was building a huge company and then I started forming I think calling it resentment would be too much but I started having feelings like the business went from 4 million to 60 million and I'm still making 80,000 a year you know if I would have been better off going anywhere making millions so you know I think but but again I was making my own bed the reason it was cool was I knew I chose to do it just like I chose to leave and start vinner media yeah makes a lot of sense okay one more question on entrepreneurship because I want to spend most of the time on your new book and this one is about mental health so I feel like it's going to become hot like a hot Trend where entrepreneurs are going to start focusing more on Mental Health as I'm doing my podcast I feel like more people are talking about it and I read that entrepreneurs spend 73% less time with their friends and family y 49% of entrepreneurs have some sort of Mental Health issue anxiety add things like that so my question to you is for all the entrepreneurs out there or people who want to be entrepreneurs what's your advice to make sure that we're taking care of our mental health and our relationships I mean I've been pretty consistent on this like long before I think we've gotten more thoughtful about the mental health aspect like I will never to the day I die understand why anyone would choose anything over being happy I think people think money will cover up the scars and make you happy I believe that people don't that don't have money believe that money is happiness M and that if they buy a BMW or get some an attractive husband or wife or have three homes or have a seven karat ring or a private Chef that will unlock the happiness I have lived a life where I came from the dirt and now live a life where I see all the tippy top 1% and I can promise you and one day you'll find out if you don't believe me that money does not buy happiness it creates convenience it creates opportunity to do things but I'm talking about happiness so what is my recommendation [ __ ] around and find out that's my recommendation if you do not believe me or the other people that spit it who've lived it the reason people burn out is because they choose money not entrepreneurship without the money is the game mhm you and I weren't picking money when we're selling candy in school we're just like living our life it's some inventing yeah people were gravitating towards trumpet Spanish class people were gravit like nobody I didn't read a business book in second grade to and open up a lemonade stand my mom didn't tell me to do that it was the light it was all I knew it was my hard wiring that's different than I mean I need that's why this fake entrepreneurship era is tough because a lot of them are making a bad name for the game they're like entrepreneurship [ __ ] with my mental health it's because you [ __ ] were trying to use it to cover up your issues therapy should have been what you were doing not entrepreneurship yeah and it's that you know I've never said that before and I appreciate your reaction like that's actually the truth people thought the money could cover it up the money accelerates it money exposes you it doesn't change you yeah so what would I say I would say what I've been saying my whole life even my first book coming out the gate my message even you said it earlier like it was crush it cash in on your passion everybody who's listening right now think about the thing you would do 247 if you could if you really could what is your play what is your downtime what is your leisure what's your favorite golf cooking music skiing travel like if you can spend your 20s trying to make a career in that you will win if you go and try to be practical and be an accountant cuz your dad said so or you think it's cool and be an entrepreneur when deep down you know you don't have the stomach for it you will lose and so I think the reason that people are struggling is that they're not in their right path yeah but what about the entrepreneurs that are doing really good but they're obsessed with being an entrepreneur and they're spending so much time on their business that they ignore their relationships it means that they may not value their relationships as much as they want to say they are got it you know a lot of people like to talk [ __ ] without going to the third level yeah g but you don't get it I'm not spending enough time with my boyfriend I'm like maybe you don't like your boyfriend because I promise you if you're obsessed with your boyfriend and your business you'll make the time yeah actions over words we become very wordy we're really [ __ ] wordy yeah and this is not just Jen Z or Millennials like boomers are wordy as

[ __ ] on Facebook humans have become incredibly wor wordy because there's somewhere to put your words y social media's allowed us to talk and most people talk straight [ __ ] and so Gary you don't get it like I'm I miss my kids I'm like go see your kids yeah people are not accountable people like to posture for Optics but have a different reality mhm you know so because if you actually mean it you would do it yeah be honest about it you know be honest about your priorities yeah I think people just are getting really good at like looking for um pity yeah like I'm going to struggle to cry for someone who is actively fully in control as an entrepreneur who's crying about it and now someone's going to be listening and say but I have a job and I'm stuck no you're not you could sell your home you could pay rent at a smaller apartment you could sell your car and take public transportation many people did for many generations we've just gotten so entitled and are looking for easy do you know many people complain about money and buy Starbucks so many and take Ubers and go to Coachella like if you're complaining about money save it yeah well let's move on to some of the marketing and Tech stuff I want to talk about your day trading attention new book so you've been on the cusp and The Cutting Edge of a lot of things you were on the internet doing e-commerce before it was hot with Wine Library you were one of the first pioneers on YouTube so how can you tell when things are going to get hot um you know how there's like good anrs in music like how' you know Lady Gaga was going to be big whoever discovered her like he or she was just had a knack for it usually that Knack is because you know how people are going to feel so I very good feeling of what the general public likes and doesn't like but also I put in the work back to what we were talking about earlier when YouTube when I jumped on YouTube in February of 2006 and went all in I spent most of the summer of' 05 reading Tech crunch every blog post and they would write about the new startups if I hadn't put in that work I would have never or would have clicked on like the articles that led me there if I didn't work 15 hours a day building Wine Library sitting next to Eric castner my developer who probably was the one that said read this Tech runch article because three years earlier I asked him can I put wine videos on the website how much would that cost and after he told me like a billion dollars to host them because it was old back then he was like you probably going to like this because it's free I'm like it's free you know um and so I'm good at human psychology I'll give you a real interesting one that you might find interesting since you're such a young buck but back in 2007 when I was yelling about Twitter mhm almost everyone would say to me this is so stupid who cares that you're walking the dog who cares if you're eating pizza and my answer was everyone and people are like brain [ __ ] with that they're like what do you mean now that must seem mundane to the all you youngsters like everybody shares everything about everything yeah back then nobody shared anything about anything M so you know I think human psychology helps me right like why did I understand musically because I understood that it was putting in front of when it was only 14-year-old girls it was still putting in content in front of them based on content they liked not based on following someone I saw that in Tumblr when I was an early investor in Tumblr and I knew why Tumblr was winning it wasn't the social graph people it was the interest graph what are you into yeah and I always thought that was more powerful because like DUS and I could have been best friends in junior high but then by high school if our interest changed right we all lived through Junior High SCH we all saw you know one or two or three people stay a lot of times just because they've been there for so and you just got War Stories together it's not even like you are into the same [ __ ] anymore but the natural human flight is you do change friends based on interest times and life things right and so that made more sense to me so it's the skill of human psychology it's the putting in the work like I wake up in the morning and I look at the app store and then I play with things if I think recp is interesting I download and play with it yep and right now the only ones that are playing with reclip are gen Alpha it's like me and the 9-year-olds you know like and so like I put in the work I stay curious I watch and then there's always moments where there's a Tipping Point and I've been pretty good dust you know Dustin's filming me in the back for all the people that really follow me obviously dck is doing his own thing and I always have different people filming Dustin's now really been locked in with me for a little while and he's been here five six so he's now seen a cycle here's what I mean where I'm about to go next if we're getting very marketing nerdy

yeah he was here when be real was starting to get hot he was in the meetings filming me when I was like I think it's a feature like it now it's not him reading about it yeah now it's not the kids everyone who's listening right now on podcast like me talking no he lived it so he can see that like there is a skill set to being good at it not just throwing against the wall and see what sticks and so you know I'm excited about this skill I focus on it very heavily for example the cliche question people ask me all the time is like okay so what's next I'm like I don't know yeah but the second I see it I go all in I taste it and whether that was vine where it did mean something but then it sold quickly or was social cam or Vero or all these other things that peach was a big one for a week back in 2014 like I'm very focused on paying attention putting in the work saying maybe you know what [ __ ] everyone up I say no Tik Tok no and I always say maybe yeah with a hope to yes I say maybe in a world of people that say no yeah because you want to make sure you capitalize on it while they're still underpriced attention like you say in your book right that's right the thing that many people will definitely understand right now that are listening is if you did move on Tik Tok when I was yelling about it every day six years ago that would have been good and now that I think people have gone through a cycle cuz I was big enough at that time unlike 10 years earlier that enough people heard that enough people didn't go you know why insecurity everybody that could and go crush it was on Instagram and they didn't want to start over well I got a million followers on Instagram like zero on Tik Tok and people got caught yeah so talk to us about the supply and demand curve that happens on social platforms at first if they're meant to be big the ones we all know there's so much attention there but there's less content creators and so anybody that's posting is going to get more of the percentage of the attention as it becomes normalized it gets harder to go viral or get as many people see it and then at some point it becomes really challenging kind of like the thing everyone's dealing with on Instagram right now because so much attention got deviated to Tik Tok not that anybody on Tik Tok is only on Tik Tok and not on Instagram obviously the very young may be that way but most people are on both it's just that pre- Tik Tock it was four hours on Instagram for that person instead of two because two is now on Tik Tok the problem is at the same time that went down from an intention standpoint the amount of content that's being posted on Instagram is through the roof yeah so yesterday more content on Instagram than any day prior in Instagram's history yet the attention is now fragmented between YouTube shorts Tik Tok uh by the way streaming services by the way twitch by the way like and so what ends up happening is there's only 24 hours a day there's only so much attention but there's more and more supply of content so you have to know how to day trade it like a stock somebody who day trades stocks you're buying in nanc whether it is the actual social media platform buying ads on the platform the influencers on the platform to do deals with or anything else in between and across all these platforms from LinkedIn to Pinterest to Snapchat to YouTube shorts to Facebook to reals to Instagram and then the units inside do you post Carousel do you post a video do you do a reel long form picture do you do a lot of copy do you do no Emoji what time do you post like this is [ __ ] science yep and like Talent like if you're remarkably beautiful that will probably work if you're remarkably funny that'll probably work but for the most people like being good at it is the point of this book I really like this is the most textbook that I've ever written like I'm going there yeah uh and you know I'm very proud of how well I've played all of the instruments and I just want to try to help people get better at it yeah cuz it is the game yeah I loved your book by the way I thought it was you guys gave me an advanced copy and I read it and it was great can I can I reverse this on you for a second so you might be the first person I'm really or maybe the second but I didn't get to ask them like so obviously because of your success and your knowledge and your strengths I kind of wrote this book for someone like you like this isn't a you weren't going to read this book and be like oh this is like of course like I was I'm curious what parts or what things or what hit for you well it solidified things for me so for example I'm one of the biggest LinkedIn marketing experts I teach like a two-day class it's the most popular class and I'm always I can hack the algorithm and that's why people hire me so one of the things that's happening this year is that they're prioritizing interest relevancy over engagement probability it used to be that you would post something motivational something inspirational if people shared it you'd go viral now it's all about posting a specific topic educating people and then LinkedIn will match users based on the things they like the interest graph exactly so I actually wanted you to can you go super deep on the interest graph because I feel like this is the major

Trend happening with all social media sites and that's what I from your book I was like oh he's right on the money this is yeah this was I told my brother that I thought Tumblr was going to be bigger than Facebook and Twitter I'll never forget I called him after I invested I said I got the biggest I went Twitter Facebook Tumblr in my investing those are the first three companies I invested in my life out of a liquor store in New Jersey it's like funny it's like I'm like you could see I'm laughing at my it's so improbable like I don't even cuz it's my life I don't even think like it's absurd comma I thought Tumblr was going to be the biggest because of this conversation just took 15 years for it to happen uh the in again everybody social media for the first decade plus was very simple it was like email marketing you would get as many people to follow you as possible and then you would post and a percentage of those people would see it that was the game and that was easy for me to figure out because I did email marketing in 97 98 99 when that was like new and I was a big winner in that game that was underpriced attention I was competing against liquor stores that were making catalogs but I was getting to the customer for free instead of how much a catalog cost and getting to them faster it was huge it was foundational so I saw the same thing in Social so I masked big followings that was the focus tiktock ification of social media like I talk about in the book that interest graph algorithm is now going to eat up everything because it's better it keeps you on the platform longer let's use common sense you go to your Facebook you're now 27 you went on Facebook at 18 the people you followed are people you met like one night hooking up or at a random party or whatever and now you're seeing posts of them like them in Ohio with their aunt and you're like I don't give a [ __ ] but just like email we don't unsubscribe from our [ __ ] list we just delete it or archive it or like we don't put in the work to clean up our [ __ ] so you kept seeing [ __ ] you didn't give a [ __ ] about which made you not spend four hours on it made you spend 14 minutes on your feet y then you go to Tik Tok and you're seeing Unlimited that you [ __ ] with and 4 hours later you're like what the [ __ ] just happened yeah that's good for Tik Tok that was bad for Facebook now all of them are going to be like Tik Tok and every social network is going to have the for you page DNA in them for quite a while now maybe forever because it's more humanly true that's what I focus on and that's why focus on your Niche is about to [ __ ] up everyone you're going to need to talk about more things than ever that are true to you because you're going to need that content to find more different audiences for you to be as big as you want to be I was going to ask you does that mean riches are in the niches now because of the interest graph but to your point if you've got multiple topics it's an and game think about how weird I am the reason I know everybody from afar especially in the game you're in are like what like garage sale videos then I mean my grid has been [ __ ] up for 12 years I was like make a good Grid it's got to be on brand I'm like you [ __ ] have no idea what you're talking about the grid is like five % of the consumption the feed is the whole game so you go to my [ __ ] thing you're like who is this Jets video garage sale keynote board meeting vriends what the [ __ ] is that like people are like what B like I'm confusing the [ __ ] out of people because I don't care about the grid I care about being as relevant to as many different people as humanly possible so it's really just about posting one post and that could go viral to different people rather I'm so glad you just said I was about to jum in earlier another thing let's talk about viral sure I'm going to use baseball I know it's not as popular anymore but it's the easiest one going viral is hitting a grand slam do you know anything about baseball a little I know enough to be dangerous you know what a strikeout is yes good most posts are a strikeout okay right doesn't do what you wanted to do MH I'm in the business of singles and doubles and triples with the occasional home run and Grand Slam but could give a [ __ ] about hitting a grand slam or if you don't follow baseball everyone I'll I won't use an analogy I don't ever think about going viral ever I only think about making good content that is valuable to the people on the other side and that means that most of my stuff will consistently do solid occasionally do better than solid and once in a while go viral I believe that most people suck at social media because they try to go viral on every post and when they don't they cry to Mommy so you're more about posting as much as you can hopefully they all do pretty good and posting as much as you can is also based on self-awareness of like I start with like do I have something to say that could bring someone value again I need everybody to hear this that comes in all shapes and sizes I mean this if you're funny and you do a skit like King Batch that's value you made somebody smile and it's a [ __ ] up world out there and the feeds are [ __ ] negative and media's negative and like that little hah haa if you're attractive like people like looking at Attractive people if you know something about LinkedIn that's valuable to the people that want LinkedIn like we

all have value if you know something about BMX or wine or sneaker like value value I think people have niched themselves in a corner if what happens if you know a lot about sneakers and bourbon post both but I don't want to F go [ __ ] the algorith and then people are super insecure they almost never post because they don't think it's going to do well as if that means anything yeah like okay you normally get 5,000 views on your video and this one got 49 what is okay yeah [ __ ] like what is the matter with this right yeah like I mean seriously we're just in like it's like we treating our lives and social media like we're still in junior high yeah so speaking of niches let's talk about creating audiences because like you just talked about we can talk about multiple topics we don't have to be scared about that we can be a dynamic person on social media which means we're going to be speaking to multiple audiences that's right and you say we should develop cohorts with teeth so what do you mean by that when I make content sometimes I'm like this is this piece of content that I'm going to make is going to hit 45 to 55 yearold firsttime moms on the coasts more New York La mentality than London than Ohio then Spain so if I know that I'm doing that don't you think that my adjectives and analogies tone intent right so I want everyone who's listening to start thinking about cohorts uh Gary what do you mean I just do sneaker content okay well there's a lot of different niches within sneaker content there's people of High net worth like myself who can afford bougie [ __ ] you know Nike Air Force One collaborations there's other people who just like really like New Balance like there's the rebok movement that I'm getting into as well like there's a lot going on Crocs if you want to expand it a little bit like do you know who you're making this video for because everyone's going to vanilla I make content for entrepreneurs I'm like okay not yourself out like can imagine how much better a piece of content is that you know that you're going to make I'm going to make content for first generation Hispanic entrepreneurs that are 18 to 22 that came from immigrant parents that came from Mexico I'm going to use analogies I'm gonna make reference to rigatone I'm going to talk about San Antonio culture like use their slang and however they talk 100% it's called relevance everyone if you're not relevant to someone the second can I make a longtail bar stool joke every bar stool dude is like [ __ ] yeah like it's not super complicated and so because everyone gets so boring in vanilla right away people say to me all the time they're like it's a really funny thing that I [ __ ] people up with like because I've been so consistent in growing and all this stuff but then like sometimes they'll be like but Gary you say the same [ __ ] I'm like what do you want me to make up stuff I don't believe in and then they go like if they stick with me in that combo they start to realize ah I say the same macro 15 things but the way I say it differently and how and where and what and to whom that's the game so cohorts these are consumer segmentations in old television talk it was we're trying to reach the 18 to 35 year old demo I like to think and I know I'm looking at your crew a lot because I like doing that like I like to think everyone in here is at a point in their lives where they realize an 18-year-old person and a 32y old the same person are very different so like but that was television you didn't have the internet now that we have the internet like everybody who's listening should be posting on Facebook it's huge still I'm getting 25 30y Old audience on Facebook now they're on there like once in a blue moon compared to whatever but like you should be relevant to Facebook audience Tik Tok audience Snapchat's culture slightly different than Tik toks Tik Tok like it's all different rooms out there and you want to be in every room and so what I talk about in the book about cohorts is consumer segmentation and the reason I say with teeth is adland Don Draper advertising marketing agencies the big brands that we work with the biggest brands in the world they like to talk about consumer segmentations but they have won they're like we're going to sell this beer to uh Health seeking enthusiasts they make it [ __ ] broad as [ __ ] because they're going to make just a super a one commercial on television and health seeking what they're basically telling you is like let's make a beer commercial where like the couple went to yoga and after had a beer do you see what they're doing what saying is if you want that beer to be relevant to a lot of people like you need to go deeper in that it needs to be like yoga moms Young Yoga moms in Kansas City you're going to make a very different piece of [ __ ] Facebook content or Instagram content than if you say professional moms in New York City who are having their first child at 40 and [ __ ] with yoga can you imagine how different those two pieces well that's called [ __ ] cohorts with teeth love it and so that was your first variable of your Modern Advertising framework also the day trading

attention framework and then you lead into something called Pac platforms and is huge platforms and culture if you take anything out of this interview and you want to crush social obsessed with platforms and culture platforms are what are the platforms currently doing that they give a [ __ ] about so when Facebook announces carousels good news they need to test it that means you should be making carousels cuz more people are going to see it organically right if the trends of the consumers on the platforms are people like skits that's a platform and culture thing because you got to always know what's going on in culture is pop culture do you know that baggy pants are back like CU tiin were [ __ ] crushing seven years ago right do you know that Crocs came back five years ago because six years ago they were dorkville USA but 20 killing it do you know what's going on with Aiden rosson sexy Reds controversy or don't you do you know like do you know pop culture or don't you because if you do know pop culture you're able to create crazy relevance right do you like because you're able to integrate that into your copy or the create of itself there's a few moments there there's three weeks to seven weeks there where the corn kid is a social media Obsession or that the Walgreens private label nice mango gummies are hot with J Alpha for a week but if you're in the [ __ ] gummy business you should know that or you sell candy you should like do you have a pulse of popular culture on everything because what's pop culture to maybe us is definitely not pop culture to somebody that lives in Peru like you know like there's people that literally I had a friend literally CU I'm 48 now so most of my friends are [ __ ] finished and what I mean by that is like deep pop culture I literally had a friend six months ago text me yo have you heard of this guy Bad Bunny I'm like what the [ __ ] I'm like dude please don't text anybody that like you know what I mean I literally took a screenshot of me dming Bad Bunny in 2017 for him I'm like yes I've heard like you know razing him of like he's finished that he's a [ __ ] Suburban dad like do you know or don't you know yeah so culture matters heavy for Content because we're going to have to be better than everybody else and if you can intertial pop culture you will win mhm like do you know it's a lavender latte at Starbucks for this season you can factor I like that you see like but notice what just happened she like shook her head cuz that one hit for her whereas sexy red and Aiden like you know like so imagine if I want both of them to give a [ __ ] about me I've got to do both those things because I've got one second in feed for them to give a [ __ ] platforms and culture to me that's very point in time right they're always changing you've got to know what features are hot on the platform you got to know the algorithm you've got to know what's hot day training then you have strategic organic content and to me that's more about understanding human behavior strategic organic content is the content that follows the pack framework in my mind if you know those two things then you make according to that is the outcome yeah that is the content I'll give you an example it sounds like I haven't dug under the hood but I will after this interview that you're doing real work in LinkedIn so that means most likely that you want on the P part the platform I know that because I also heard you talk about what the platform's doing if you do more about this is how you get way better this is how I get way better every day in the pack framework you could get to a place pretty quickly six months where you really know how the platform Works you've clearly done that on LinkedIn what is really cool for you to go to the stratosphere is if you actually knew what was in pop culture talk for literally SAS salesman for literally a like I know this is going to resonate with you like if you knew the [ __ ] slang and the [ __ ] that every Fortune 500 CFO cared about or every late stage VC CIO now you're [ __ ] cooking got it yep because now it's not just you know that this kind of content will work now you know even what the video or picture needs to do got it that's pack okay and so what and then what we call sock strategic organic content is the framework it's the reason I created sock and run it heavy here at Vayner is organic content meaning posting without media behind it or amplifying it is now the single most important thing in marketing in the world it's the game okay if I needed to put the s in front of it because by making it strategic I'm trying to make sure that everybody in my company and all my clients and anybody around me realizes I need you to think about this that's what we've been talking about for the last 10 minutes there's a lot of people listening right now that I can feel them right now as they're walking the dog on the treadmill I can feel them saying ooh there's a lot to this it isn't just like

no wonder my videos are not feeling good you know there's something to this that's how I think about this yeah so I want to dig in on strategic organic content so one of the things I want to write my first book on is human behavior online because I feel like if you understand human behavior even if algorithms are changing certain things don't change you always want to see a face have a hook it everybody wants things shorter and skimmable right so there's always things that last one the first two I liked a lot the last one's an interesting one for me I guess it depends on the platform and what the purpose is Right you'd be shocked I mean I promise you we'll clip this in the future there's gonna be seven minute videos on Tik Tok that Crush in three years crush the thing that this goes back to a big thesis in the book if it's good you can do anything if it's a if it is a wildly compelling 19-minute video you can crush on Instagram though it is very unlikely to be good enough to be able to do that right so I just I want the reason I jumped in is you're not wrong yeah I just wanted to add a curveball to everybody listening it's not Universal just because you make people make unlimited 7c videos that people stop watching after a half a second because it's a shitty 7-second video and there's also incredible amounts of outliers if you pay very close attention of longer form video in Social a minute 2 minute 3 minute 4 minute that have a lot of validity and honestly for a lot of people listening they might have just heard something that got them excited because in their gut they're like you know what I really can make epic four minute videos I guess Tik tok's not for me but it is there's a reason these platforms back to P have extended the length of their video time there's a reason so how what should we do when we have really good performing content we should amplify it if you can afford to spend media dollars after a piece of content went crazy then you should do that and if you're just a Creator by yourself and you're like a kid if you're listening right now and you're 16 and like you dunked on your little sister in the basketball rim in your room and it has three million followers on Tik Tok and you have ambition to be known and you want to do something with it don't let the algorithm be the only way you get reach Google how do I run ads on Tik Tok chat GPT read and learn you know like how everything works or watch a video and then you as a 16-year-old take your 40 bucks and spend it on getting more people to see it yeah okay so because the world has shown you that it's good you're not guessing you didn't dunk on your sister and then spend 40 up front this is how all advertising work is you know we guess now we can live in a world where we can do it post spend media not pre-s spend media it's huge so once we see something working lean into it invest in it don't just invest in things that you haven't tested yet think about it it's like working out like if you see something's working and your physique is looking why would you stop and try to do something else and hope it works like you got it go we have not figured it out because the way media had worked forever was you spent the money on something you were guessing on you thought the commercial would do well you thought the billboard would go well you thought your newspaper ad was good you know what I mean yeah so where does storytelling fit in with all of this Like Oxygen storytelling is Omni I don't even as you know I bar it's not something I really touched on a whole lot because it's oxygen life is storytelling everything's a story I don't want to get super philosophical here but everything every person in the world all eight billion of us everything we believe in is a story all of it amazing it's the whole game the reason I don't really go into like storytelling all that much is like my book on storytelling would be literally one page it's everything the end like meaning like the reason you believe in anything you believe in is because you bought the story yeah so I think a good way to round this out would be to get a full example of somebody using the Modern Advertising framework if you can just think of an example and walk folks through Mr Beast sure let me make it easy and lazy for everyone be perfect at one of the greatest platforms with attention thumbnail first second every beat at three or four minutes or whatever the science is there copyrighting what time to post language translation Crush be consistent eat [ __ ] for years to figure it out then explode then use that attention as a platform to build a absolute media Empire and cpg Empire right and notice what he does he goes and tests Twitter right I'm hearing Twitter is gonna give me a trillion views like he's you know I've never really fully crushed YouTube um because there's a lot of post- production and I'm not living that life um but we've had better years that and worse years but that was a commitment um I mean

there's really un I mean King Batch I mentioned him but like you know Vine comes out Bring value you could be funny make skits it was underpriced attention him and Jerome jar and Logan Paul and all those characters you know Rudy manuso like they're like literally in [ __ ] like I mean is anybody paying attention who's in these movies they were from Vine right they St they stole I almost said stole they didn't they operated as a great marketer on that attention they built if I was there so I'll tell you what they did they took all that attention from Vine and most of them put it on snap and became big snap story people and then boom Tik Tok and Instagram kind of went to short form video and they took it over there and then to YouTube and then to television and then to film right and it works hand inand clicks the video game player like and all these streamers I mean streaming is such an opportunity like kaed and like Aiden and clicks and Booga and like all these you know like just there's really unlimited opportunities uh poppy soda Prime energy drink um Ocean Spray I spoke about they didn't even do it opening of my book a random guy is drinking a [ __ ] Ocean Spray listen with Fleetwood Mac music in the background going down his skateboard longboard it goes viral on Tik Tok and it sells out of Ocean Spray around the country like you know these are like this is marketing now the era of television commercials is over outside of the Super Bowl where it's very important and I recommend anybody who's listening who's a Fortune 50 Fortune 500 company to deeply consider the Super Bowl because it's very underpriced attention I can run every wheel and cranny that I have and I can't spend $8 million to get $150 million Americans to watch a full 30- second video are you [ __ ] kidding me but Super Bowl does people watch those superow commercials the problem is if the video is not good you've lost right yeah but outside we no longer live in a television commercial world we now live in a social media advertising world and everything starts there and then you can do marketing campaigns and billboard everybody's Billboards every big company's Billboards should be imagery that was already proven out to be successful on social that's a very different world for everybody who doesn't come from marketing it's the reverse yeah so short question before we close this out in terms of entrepreneurs and your marketing advertising framework your day trading attention how can they use this to compete with the big dogs The Fortune 500 companies it's the first time we can you know because For the First Time Ever the creative is the variable of the reach and that's marketing jargon so let me say it again for the first time ever be how good your picture or video is can lead to millions of people seeing it that never existed before in the history of time you'd have to be on television or on the biggest magazine or newspaper to ever get a million people in America or the world to know anything and you'd have to spend millions of dollars for that now every day we all know every day that happens to somebody now what we've also learned is just because you go viral once doesn't mean you're going to be a billionaire it usually means that you're G to have this moment that you refer to your whole life and you're actually be sad six months later because you weren't able to capitalize it that goes into being a real entrepreneur but for the first time ever on entrepreneurs you have a Fighting Chance Ember Chamberlain's coffee can compete with folders Charlie demilio's popcorn can compete Logan Paul and ksi's energy drink is really competing Mr BEAST's chocolate is really competing and they're the preview not the anomaly I started a wine brand and sold it to consolation for tens and tens of millions of dollars because I made organic content on the internet about wine and then started a wine brand that will be a very normal occurrence for a long time well Gary this has been amazing this has been a master class in day trading attention and social media marketing so I end my show with two questions I ask all my guests what is one actionable thing our young impr profits can do today to become more profitable tomorrow um the number one thing they can do is to be honest with themselves every single person stop this podcast right now go to the mirror and literally actually tell yourself what are you actually good at not what would you wish you were good at what are you actually good at if you're asking me the I'm answering your question literally how to be more profitable is completely and utterly based on self-awareness of what you're good at Andor what you like and most people lie to themselves because they hope instead of their being real with themselves and what is your secret to profiting in life and this can go beyond business and money by giving more than you're taking amazing I believe the number one reason I think we might have just touched on it I talked about yesterday and something I was doing the reason most people struggle on growing

in Social and in life is when they post on social and when they act in life they worry about what's in it for them I'm looking to go viral I want to get followers I want to sell something if you think about your audience instead of you the things you want will come to you hey everybody I wanted to say that a new B is coming the followup to jab jab right hook originally called jab jab left hook but I finally captured what I've been doing for the last 20 years as an entrepreneur as a Creator and influencer as an operator of a marketing company that works with Fortune 5,500 companies and really the punchline of what I'm seeing in society which is day trading attention how to actually build brand and sales in the new social media world I'm really proud of this book when I read it and some of you follow my social enough to see the clips when I read it in studio it got so deep it goes so detailed it goes macro and micro as I like to roll and so if you've not picked up a copy yet go to Gary de. com DTA which stands for day trading attention I have a feeling that this book much like jab jab right hook literally got an email they just read it it's 10 years ago the updated version of the marketing manual for your marketing team definitely you have social media person that runs your stuff you need to get a book for them and definitely the marketers and Fortune 500 for your staff and the entrepreneurs and creators and influencers who are trying to build something for themselves so proud of it hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed putting it together the manual that we were going to give to everybody when enjoy mainor media to read and hopefully the manual to the modern marketing world and especially social media first world