How to Go From Fired to CEO | Interview with Douglas Conant

the biggest fear I have right now is in my popularity growth that people gonna try to be like me I'm an enigma I was in outer space I grew up in a very different I grew up I'm a firt I was born in the old country I'm more similar to everybody's grandfather than I am to them I'm a different animal don't do it like me you do it like us in our buying into who we were and how we could do it you got your perspective hey everybody really excited about today's podcast excited about the book the more excited about the gentleman that's sitting in front of me Doug is a an iconic I like using that iconic businessman and CEO in the corporate world and was at the helm of one of vaynermedia's earliest clients Campbell's and an avid tennis fan which is one of the first things I think about with him but somebody had stayed in touch with over the last decade who have a lot of respect for and when him and his team reached out and said hey we've got a new book out we'd love to be on the podcast I couldn't have been more excited for this moment and so here we are LinkedIn community I know you're watching live we're taking phone numbers on Facebook where we're live as well I'd really like to give some of you access to Doug because I think the wisdom and the experience and the blueprint that he brings to the forefront is a valuable one and I'm excited to give you context I think a lot of times a lot of the entrepreneurs and executives from this show get enormous value of some of the Great's that have done it and I feel like Doug sits in that category and so I'm really excited to see my friend that's good to see you too Doug why don't you give some context cuz I do have an audience that I think we'll be hearing about you for the first time and I'm excited about that so why don't you give a little 2 to 3 minute rant call it a comic book number one origin story stuff you can go all the way back to who you were as a kid or going to your professional stuff but take the floor for three to four minutes for context and we'll take from there sure I grew up in a very modest household outside of Chicago and were you a Bears fan Oh big time well Allen Robinson the star wide receiver the Bears just walked out of here two seconds ago and I missed him we got to find him so I'll go find him I gotta get him for death he's here that'd be awesome yeah what's done figure it out I don't think we're moving in propping early quick interrupts I'm just like if you could get Rizzo or Chris Bryant here are you examine these for you well speaking of cups sports cards are back and I'm buying Javier Baez rookie cards are crazy oh yeah so go ahead all right she's hot Chicago I grew up in Chicago and migrated to the corporate world very early on I tried to play professional tennis that lasts at a nanosecond and then discovered I couldn't make any money went back finished my MBA when I went to work in the corporate world worked there for 40 years some believe oh my first performance review six months into my job you know your boss signs it and that your boss's boss had to read it and make a comment my boss's boss on my first performance Emily real quick this is exciting story ready your six months in where are you working what are you doing at General Mills in Minneapolis and you are a consumer I'm a brand management a large consumer goods company what brand are you want I was on Betty Crocker potato buds and specialty potatoes and then I moved on to Betty Crocker brownies putting some pie crusts I did it all there you were a Betty Crocker Chuck I was riding the back had a message on the back panel from Betty Crocker as well cross Betty Crocker so you are Betty Crocker at some point I was I love this my mother was in shock she said what are you doing I'm saying I tell there are many Crocker wrestle so anyway six months in I get I have my first review and my bosses plus the only line he writes is you should be looking for another job really first you know and I've moved to Minneapolis Minnesota I don't know a soul and it's cold as [ __ ] yeah it is it was March it was we had it first the first eighteen days I lived there the high temperature was below zero so he so it's below zero I'm getting feedback you should be looking for another job I don't know anybody how'd you handle that I did all right with it good you know I hit you know you have two choices fold or double down and then I doubled down and I was grinding it out how did you learn from that well what's the what's a takeaway from that was it about interactions with your boss was it was or some other random insight I what I learned from that probably was that I could play through it hmm but early on I was like a deer in the headlights you know my first day at work I went there off the tennis tour and I had a everybody was wearing

pinstripe suits red ties white shirts that was sort of them yeah this is mid-70s and I show up in a khaki suit with a yet bright yellow shirt a big wide madras tie and brown earth shoes and a tan line from where I had my headband and my plant you must add and here I'm showing up at a button-down collar place and did any funny comment in the first 24 hours no but I still looks I will tell you I started to look like everybody else about three months in I understand I spent probably the first my entire time there my focus was on fitting in because my feedback early on was you're not fitting in so I was trying to figure out how to make this work it was a whole new world it'd be like walking in here for the first time in Europe yes the energy here Wow yes steroids yes but at any rate and I was trying to fit in yes I understand I was trying to figure out what did you like the work I mean obviously stayed like 40 years like amiibo more than the work was fine but yet it was a party it was interesting but the people I like I'm being part of a large community just like you've got here yeah being part of a larger gene people give each other energy and if you needed help you found somebody to help you did you like playing doubles or did you antenna so you liked more of a singles aspect I would both if your tennis player I was better at doubles but if you're a tennis player you're sort of a long funny way you know because you're it's not a team sport you know you're playing for yourself yeah but so so what happened Lanyon eventually I got fired from that job that's epic nine years in I went in I was working I had the world's greatest job I was director of marketing for Parker Brothers toys and games Oh nerf sport I had two little kids nerf sports and her football their food the green and white football is like the most Americana for me because that's how I became a Jets fan like the nerf spongy nerf green and white football is like one of the most near and dear things to my heart we are a lot of us grew up with little leather there but like that's what it looked like well now you you've gone upscale started I want to be known as upscale anyway so I went into my buses I went in to work on a beautiful spring morning this is now nine years later up in Boston and I and the receptionist said the senior vice president marketing would like to see you I go up to his office and he said your jobs been eliminated you'd need to be out of here by noon simple as in nine years of my career was over in a snap so real quick you were General Mills for how long before I was five years that gentleman zoned Parker Brothers I didn't know that at the time got it and later sold it to Hasbro eventually eventually they spun it off and then has brought water yeah and that's so but you know it was not healthy 30 I was 32 and what like crushed that was that was the most deficit of my career no I had I did you have a more I had two kids I'd have very large mortgage real stuff you know how am I gonna make some gonna go home and tell my wife I'm dying I'm not to go I got to completely go into that wound but like you're a big boy now and had a lot of wait till everybody hears he ended up being the CEO of Campbell's so like he won but like tell me about that day who'd you call first I'm actually very curious about that was a I didn't Cory but you didn't know what to do yeah you know I was still you want to talk me out of there by noon clean your desk yeah clear your desk put it in a box to anybody that you worked with no because you were in a daze I yeah I was did you go to a bar right up I went straight home okay fair enough told it to my wife my two kids my how old it across the caps and this how did the braces nonetheless it was hard what happened next later they were so anxious to get me out of the building they forgot to tell me what my package benefit what my package was so the head of so one of the HR people called you and said I'd like to fit you in yeah and I swore at him and hung up the phone I you know I was so pissed it sort of all came out McEnroe came out yeah there you go yep and after about two more hours with my kids running around and the dogs and the cats I thought I need to get a job I better call that guy back so I was home so I tell you I called him back and that same day and they sent me to an outplacement counselor who saved my life that same day I had the worst experience of my career and I mean that over my 45 year career and that afternoon and I call my outplacement

concert guy by name and Neil McKenna he answered this is before cell phones yeah and before caller ID of course he answers the phone whoever calls him and he says hello this is neil mckenna how can I help and he was there for me completely I called him he said come right on over we're gonna work through this we got to focus forward I know this is tough shopping but yeah and he saved my life Wow you know in that moment and you know the funny thing was the first thing he had me do and he we talked about this right away he said I want you to hand write your entire life story for me and your family's story and I'm thinking what are you talking about I got to get a job I get you know and you and you want me to right hand right you said yeah I want your hand write it I want you to feel this hand write your life story everything you can think of leave nothing out so I spent two weeks writing my life two weeks right my life what are you have a book but what you know when you're unemployed you have a lot of time so I wrote for two weeks and it was in third grade Suzy Thompson and I like oh but I was writing about my family coming to this country finding their way and all of a sudden my losing a job feel significant and I know you found your family same perspective and I had a different perspective and I'm looking at this and I'm saying god I got to get over this you know this is not the worst thing that's happened to my family in my history right yeah and so it really helped me get some perspective and then what happened this is what was interesting he read the story and he got to know me and within another two weeks when we met he said I don't get it this just doesn't add up and I said why he said the person who wrote this story is a fierce competitor and is determined to make a difference and you're showing up tail between the legs yeah and as and you're not showing that this the person I'm reading about the person I'm meeting are two different people I'm an introvert I've even more then than I am now and I wasn't talking unless spoken to I started polite I was trying to fit in make it work keep my job and do all this defense yeah yeah and I was reacting to things and he said you've got so much to offer go but you're keeping it all bottled up inside and that's where the spirit of this book started to be born because you know my observation and we do a little story David Brooks from the New York Times writes about are you lizard living for your resume or your eulogy are you trying to get all the tangible things you know the new car the corner office are you living for that or what they're going to say about you when you're gone and he said you get seduced living for your resume and I started realizing that you got to put your resume and your eulogy together and it should be net together with a sense of purpose that grows out of your life story not out of all the testing and all this other stuff grows out of your life story because as we see in the book your life story is your leadership story it's worth comes from I met with a young woman that doesn't work here and she wants to go do something and she's not leaving because she's worried that her resume is gonna show she only worked at this place for six months I was like it's 2020 nobody even [ __ ] reads resumes what are you talking about yeah that's a good point one night when I lost my job it's like you were ashamed that you lost a job and you didn't tell anybody people still her that way and if sigma's are real yeah so what happened to career where did you get picked up I ended up going to craft had a good run at crafts where I moved to yep did you love and did you go did you odd go to Chicago I went back to Chicago tailed between my legs to a degree because that's where I grew up yeah the craft was a job honey I had a great job there and it was the entry point I was a category manager for Kraft salad dressings mm-hmm but I went on to the director of corporate strategy at Kraft and then I got recruited right after barbarians at the gate right by KKR I gotta tell everybody a little bit about this is an iconic book in the corporate world I want some of the youngsters and entrepreneurs and outside the corporate world to hear this tell everybody just a few seconds on that iconic book and story well this was the story of the second half of the 20th century it was the world's largest OBO at the time it was KKR buying RJR nabisco RJR was a money machine tobacco machine they acquired Nabisco and some other food companies and built this massive business but the handwriting was on the

wall for the tobacco industry and so business started to soften KKR came in and made it the world's largest LBO they planned to flip it in five years it took us ten and they there was so much money coursing through the veins of this company that it was like the Wild West of corporate spending and this is there were sporting yeah there were stories of the chairman who since passed sending the corporate jet to pick up his dog on the East Coast to come out to Mission Hills California for a golf tournament on the west coast the dog and we had we had a team he had assembled a team of the greatest athletes of all time we know this story the Johnny Unitas all of them they really had no income in their retirement they hadn't made the money right and so they started they had about 30 people on payroll who lived off RJR nabisco and showed up at events and everything else it was a larger payroll I believe than the Yankees at the time but it was the who's who of Hall of Fame land because he loved the source and just wanted hang out there yeah hang out and you know it was a it worked so they it was just amazing excess KKR bought it we had a sort of wind all that down because corporate governance was getting in the way I mean you couldn't do that some of that stuff and so yeah we ended up taking a lot of cost out I had a good run there the last five years I was president abisco Foods running that and then we sold that actually back to Kraft who I had left and then I was recruited to go help fix Campbell Soup Company which was I was there for a decade as CEO and that was great that was wild I went in there and headquartered in Canada how did that feel remind me I apologize was it directly to CEO yeah so how did that feel how did it feel on the dawn of knowing you're getting offered the CEO job of one of the most iconic American I mean this is now your full career at this point right from the early days and Parker Brothers generally you should be looking for another job that's why should be cleaning I clean out your desk did you try to our I'm sorry you're like me did you try to find those two guys that wrote that review the night before you took yeah hey Ronald I got something for you so they know they I know they know did the did it feel spent was that I was like it was just it was a head under yeah but I we had been acquired and I they knew I was the market knew I was not gonna go back to craft right so there were several opportunities percolating I ended up taking the Campbell were they all CEO jobs or yeah got it so it's the only one I could go to at that point in your career I get it said I always said you know I was I'm slow so I'm not as fast as you but I had always said I want to be a CEO by the time I'm 49 and what's that right and I was 49 when it happened you just you'll find funny Doug I speak fast my Energy's fast but I'm actually wildly slow like even this company I'm running now you know when we met way back when for some org this has been built really to buy brands I'm far more KKR far more private equity than I am agency like I'm actually going slow the Energy's high I would argue that you 49 it's a pretty young age at that time of year of that era to be the CEO of something like a much last it was it's pretty cool yeah challenge with that kind of family there's a lot of challenges going I happen to have enough knowledge to know like the Campbell's family died like there's some day the family owned half the company and they were five families because it was third generation you know yeah multiple generations that's right tricky and we were headquartered in the poorest most dangerous city in the United States Camden New Jersey challenged 75,000 people 70 murders a year and we were being we were running it was a canned soup company I mean our product had been invented in the prior century and was unchanged and I was saying I was talking to our folks and I said well don't we need to evolve and they said you don't understand we can run canned soup faster on our lines than anybody else you're like and I said but you know but don't we need more and they said but we run our canned soups really fast and so we evolved but the company's highlight for you personally in that decade if I'm saying to you in that

10-year window hot tape you know I hit strike you know we talked earlier about your resume or eulogy that came together for me I showed up more authentically during that era in that era actually the last five years at Nabisco I started to mature I found my sea legs I developed the courage of my convictions that I probably hadn't had before love that but being challenged at Kate by KKR all the time yeah and the people around there five years in I sort of hit stride and said you know I can do this so for you and then so at Nabisco and then a Campbell I hit my stride and that I it became one you know what I do today I live for my resume but I very much it's in harmony with the things I hope people say about me someday talk to me about the book and awesome Amy who has a big title Amy the awesome Amy is truly awesome I'll tell you I'm a 68 year old white guy I've heard and I'm writing this book and I would write it like a 68 year old white guy respect and and I the book is designed and we'll talk about in a minute to be approachable for anyone right and I needed help and Amy's a 30-something gifted writer she writes all the social she's editor in chief for Conant leadership she writes all of our social media content and what is called leadership for everybody excuse me what's call it leadership it's what we're on to promote leadership that works in the 21st century because most of the models is it a consulting business is it we don't do any consulting we don't make money I don't take a salary we charge for a few things to cover our costs if we more than cover our costs we give it away and we a legacy that's now for like seven years for you and and we're loving it we're in it for all the runs the book out the book just came out yesterday congratulations who do you feel like this is gonna hit most right in the chest this can hit anybody from my kids who are 33 35 and 38 mm-hmm on up and that could actually I could actually work with college students the beauty of this book is there is no one right way to lead you know and if I talk about your leadership story is your life story is your leadership story excuse me unique so you should lead in a unique way there are some timeless principles that you should apply which we talk about in the book but this book is designed for you to create your own blueprint you anybody in this room and it will all be different I have probably because I'm older I have thousands of books I probably over a thousand books in the office and there are a thousand books to tell you how you oughta lead yep and none of them resonate with me completely they're good a good idea here good idea there so what we decided to do was write a book that help people figure out how to lead in a way that worked for them how much is relationship with adversity and losing self esteem self-awareness how many of these you know well that's all I mean it's all part of it this is complicated if it was not complicated everything would have been figured out already so you know and the key to this book is and all those other books it takes it's like a diet after the holidays you have your diet you say I'm gonna lose 20 pounds and here we go my wife and I are gonna start a diet we last about two weeks and we say this is never gonna work it doesn't fit in our life and the way we wrote this book was it has to nest perfectly the change process perfectly in your cockamamie life the way it exists today anybody in your office all of whom everybody feels swamped hundred-percent swamped right it's unbeliev a lot of people have one hours worth of work feel like they're swamped and I want to kick them in the face I know it's true it's the human spirit people fill their bucket with thought let me make fun of myself I thought I was the hardest-working guy going at 27 I laugh at that kid well you were pretty hard work I was but really you know you hit different gears yeah that's right it's true it is around happiness from what you're supposed to be doing Amy jump in here for a second we just want to ask go ahead don't be scared I want to ask you a quick question from your perspective cuz I think it really matters and gonna help you know from your perspective as this book was written what stood out to you what was an aha for you maybe going through the process which I think sometimes happens or what was your ambition or as you were listening and debating and conjuring up with what when you now look at this as a finished product where do you go with like oh I'm really glad this happened through the process or I'm excited to see this group of people absorb this and I'm excited like some random thoughts on that front yeah so I

think one of the epiphanies was anchoring this story in that moment of Doug getting fired because it brings somebody with such gravitas down to earth yes relatable yes and it really is the story of the worst day in somebody's life how come you've been that day and how do you get there yes and it's a practical guide so when you look at a story that big it can feel too big be approachable so that's how we also had kind of the Epiphany to make it really practical people that I talk to my age also feel swamped whether they only have an hour of work or 70 hours yeah and they're saying well how I don't feel right I need to wait for the perfect conditions to get started on a change process what am I gonna feel ready you're never gonna feel ready so this is for you whatever how much do you feel that is people's inability to have a relationship with other people's judgement I'm sorry say that one more time sure well I think it's a like to your point and I couldn't agree with you more like people come up with enormous amounts of counterpoints to why this is a time to do something that we mean happier more successful mm-hmm and so it's something I've been thinking about my whole life I think one of the great gifts that I was given is immigrant grew up with very little and then on top of it which is rare for immigrants bad student writing that it that's an added element which very early on gave me a relationship with losing and being an outsider that made me very comfortable with not worrying about people's judgment and I observe and I'm like right they're scared to quit their good job because they're unhappy because they're worried about their mom's judgment their husbands their bestfriends judgment in what you just said how much have you observed what's your hypothesis on how much of this is actually grounded in people's inability to deal with other people's judgment yeah that's a really good point and you're actually lucky that you failed early you got comfortable with Reid there's a lot of people especially who ascend to the levels of leadership that the leaders Doug's talking to where they're used to being really typing right achieving and they're not comfortable erect with something that's imperfect so the message in this book is forget perfection throw it out the window it's not gonna be perfect you just have to get going perfection is a disguise for not wanting to do absolutely it becomes an excuse to just not even start a hundred percent yeah I love that here is this you can start right now with what you've got right away and within a week you can start to behave let's get one question before we wrap up and then I'll give you the floor to give some thought to the last things we want to say before we head out of here yeah just makes sense you know it's really funny podcast form book form you know ultimately I think why I wasn't a good student is my relationship with reading I was never diagnosed but it's clear to me you know I love that people learn in different formats Adam don't blow your only chance Adam this is Gary Vaynerchuk say hello to Doug and Amy are you good what's your question brother you know I just I know has done some research in the past I'm actually reading a blog right now it's kind of funny that I'm even on this but I'm ready to blog right now and it's about just talking about employees within clients and just showing appreciation and specifically how to write the perfect think you know and I know a little bit of Doug's history and how he has written I believe over 30,000 thank-you notes and I just kind of wanted to pick his brain as far as like the impact of just simply showing appreciation and being genuine and like what that means and how do you do that many suggestions with it and yeah first you thank this guy for knowing that history about you well everybody I'm surprised you don't Gary you know what I did know about the thank-you notes I know is the number in the range he's right aye I did know big time on the thank-you notes I didn't know as to I mean that is scale well you know and thank you when I Adam lob my exit my outplacement counselor said you're gonna be a horrible interview you're too shy you're too introverted you got to figure out a way to have a signature practice mm to get a job figure it out so I started I come here I'd meet 10 people I'd get all their names while I was interviewing I would go to the coffee shop next door I would hand write a note to each of them

I would then walk it back to the coffee to the front desk give it to the receptionist and say could you deliver these today I did that everywhere I went Wow and I started to hire actress of reaching out in a personal way it doesn't have to be much receptionist had never received a personal thank-you note in their life from somebody calling on the building that's amazing and so I started doing that and then I went to work at Campbell and even in Campbell which was hemorrhaging 8 how to attend things being done we're right we had to make some real tough decisions let go 300 of the top 350 liters he's never been done in fortune 500 history at the same time we had all these people doing good work so I started writing 10 to 20 short notes a day to employees I was commuting two and a half hours each way from New Jersey down to Camden from Moores County down to Camden I started reading all the stuff that was going on in the company and I would write notes to these folks 10 to 20 a day six days a week for a decade I was when I was retiring the person from Forbes said how many of these do I'm hearing about all these notes from everybody how many notes have you written I said I don't know so we did the math during the interview and figured out just the Campbell employees I had written 30,000 notes we only had 20,000 employees wherever you went in the world we were in 38 countries we were marketed on 125 countries wherever you went in the world in a cubicle if I was to walk up you would see a note from handwritten note from man amazing just about every person's cubicle somewhere you know what's amazing about that Adam any parting shots cuz I'm gonna wrap up here but thank you for that awesome and you gotta make it personal and keep it short awesome piggy for mud you got about you know it's funny a lot of people don't know this but in my transition from the wine business to the tech world I reply to every single tweet from 2007 to 2011 period anybody who replied to me and I think that's I mean but it's the same game you play it was you know it makes and context right you know like sending a note aiming me like I liked your black and white jacket that you wore in the office today like when you actually are paying attention when you actually know a little something it's subtle little things that really tell you the note I wrote we're not gratuitous I like your jacket they were you delivered the business on plan under budget or a nice job with the deferred diversity Network every note I sent was reaffirming our company strategies and I was talking performance but you know the theme was I'm gonna be tough minded on standards we let a lot of people go but I'm gonna be tender hearted with people and the people that were getting the work done they heard from me too I love that so it's mine would've been like a me good job we got the pages in and I also like your jacket well I think no mistakes I respect that no I wish it's bad by the way it's back to the blueprint yeah it's back to 11,000 books yeah it's I would done that and you would have done this and that's the biggest punchline but because fear I have right now is in my popularity growth that people gonna try to be like me I'm an enigma I was in outer space I grew up in a very different grew up I'm a firt I was born in the old country I'm more similar to everybody's grandfather than I am to them I'm a different animal don't do it like me you do it like us in our buying into who we were and how we could do it yeah it's your story you right 100% our story and sent all these leadership books sir here's my story and here's how you should do it it's wrong I'm with you it's wrong parent now if you're the kind of learner that learns from other people's examples that's why you went on to read those books because you were able to get a little here a little there at 15 20 bucks a pop and if you're a quick reader you can get value but whether it's a free room people you can learn from you know I I met Stephen Covey when he was Stephen Covey you know he was advising presidents and I and he you know when the student is ready the teacher appears oh and he had a profound influence on me so did Neil McKenna who was my outplacement Connery right time right place right human I mean there are people to learn from always you have to listen to your inner voice love and what our observation is most people don't know their inner voice they'd not say him and reflected on it they don't think you press it or they fear you out because it doesn't even matter whereas they fear it because they hear it but they don't see it fitting into the narrative that has been forced on them right I'm here right now what matters watch this everybody's watching go to Amazon or your local book store Barnes and Nobles calm and pick up the blueprint Doug Amy thank you so much

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