She Quit Her Stable Job to Become a DevOps Engineer (And is Now a Golden Kubestronaut)

Before I was scared of the terminal, you know, I didn't know what it was, you know, this black box. And now today, my current job, I'm using the terminal every day, you know, every day. And I was seeing a lot of stories on the internet from people that they completely uh switch careers, you know, after doing a boot camp. And I was really intrigued by that. And uh yeah, and I decided to bet on myself, you know, and do the same. Yeah. during that time. Yeah, as I say, it was pretty intense. I didn't socialize that much, you know. It was I mean, you have to sacrifice something, you know. I remember that the first interviews like I was collecting, you know, all this intel, you know, writing down the questions that they were asking and then I was reading all the parts, you know, from your boot camp and then I was preparing, you know, the right answers and then after, yeah, I was doing it much, much better. To get a job in DevOps and cloud, I needed three things. I became a golden coupout this summer. I'm the first one uh the first person in Switzerland and also the first woman in Spain. She took a pay cut, left a senior position at a major medical devices company. Started as a junior DevOps engineer making less money than she had in years. Less than a year later, she quit that job and within two years of the career switch, she's making more than her original senior salary. and her second DevOps job was much easier to get than the first one. Companies chose her over computer science graduates with more IT experience. So what happened in those 2 years? And why did quitting her first DevOps job after less than a year actually increase her market value instead of destroying it? This is a story of Anna Pedra and she was willing to share her very inspiring DevOps career journey with me and our community. So this is full interview

with her. But before we get started, it's important to understand that there is one thing that most people miss about breaking into DevOps. Anna had multiple cloud certifications before landing her first job offer. She had AWS cloud practitioner, Azure certificate, solutions architect, all passed. She was applying for jobs consistently and yet the certifications alone were not enough to get her past the technical interviews. Lenning her first job was the most challenging. She failed her early interviews, face rejections that probably make you question everything and your career choices. But the second job was completely different game, much easier, almost effortless. The question is what actually bridges that gap to help you land that first ever job in engineering field and then what changes between job one and job two. So in this video you are going to see Anna's complete journey but also the complete strategy that she used to become such a successful engineer in such a short period of time. So, not just how to get your first DevOps role, but how to make sure that first role actually sets you up for the second one and for the next decades of a successful engineering career. You'll understand why certifications don't work alone, why some DevOps jobs limit your career while others accelerate it. What are some interview preparation tips that actually work when you're failing technical rounds, as well as the exact timeline of when things get easier. So this is not just an inspirational story. This is about understanding the mechanics of career transition so you can replicate it. Whether you were applying for jobs right now with certifications but getting nowhere or you are in your first DevOps role wondering if you made the right choice and what your career looks like in the future. So whichever situation you're in right now, you will know exactly what to do next by the end of this video. Let's start with a decision that most people think is crazy. Taking a pay cut to enter a field you have zero experience in. So I'm Anna. I am Spanish. I come from Barcelona and uh I studied industrial engineering uh there and uh started my career in medical devices in Switzerland. I moved uh from Spain to Switzerland and I started working uh for big companies in that sector like Johnson Johnson, ABOT, Jill. Uh but after yeah after many years in that industry I felt that the tasks were a bit repetitive and yeah I was craving for more yeah for a more challenging work and during that time it was co um and uh — yeah and I think I started then seeing your videos and you know and I got a lot very inspired and I always wanted to break into tech and uh yeah and I started Ed uh self-studying I started with Python then I did also uh data science and data engineering postgraduate course and uh and then I decided to go deep into devops and after watching your videos and kubernetes and docker I decided to do your boot camp and yeah and also while doing your boot camp also on the side I was studying for certifications uh for uh professional certifications s and uh and yeah and applying for jobs and eventually in 2024 I got my first job uh as cloud devops at Swisscom which is a telecommunications company here in Switzerland and uh and then uh I moved to my current company speech uh that it's an AI company that does speech and analytics and recognition and yet they have like five different products um all related to speech analytics and like voice bots. — Yeah. — Yes. And we install them in our clients. We have uh clients in the financial uh sector uh also telecommunications, insurance companies. Yes. — Yeah. Okay. So, let me zoom in a couple of areas that you mentioned because I think your journey is interesting. So I want to dig deeper into those decision points uh throughout the journey. So first of all you are in this field which is uh you know manufacturing engineering for medical devices and you have this you know years of experience and you decide you want to go into tech which is kind of a new field for you. Uh so at what point or what was the trigger for you to decide you know what this isn't for me anymore. I want to do something different and I want to kind of dive into that. So what was the point and why did you have the trigger? Why did you make the decision? — Yeah, I think it was a cumulative of things uh that I have already been working in the medical device sector for quite a long time. It was like seven eight years. I also have worked for different industries and I saw that the type of job it was kind of the same you know even if I change companies — and I also it was the time during COVID that also boot camps were very famous you know and I was seeing a lot of stories on the internet from people that they completely uh switch careers you know after doing a boot camp — and I was really intrigued by that and uh yeah and I decided to bet on myself, you know, and the team — and it worked for me. Yeah. — Yeah. Did you so when you um made the

decision, did you think it is something which is future proof? I'm going to go into the tech so that I have like a safe job and career in the future. Uh or did you think you know this is a highly paid um field? You know, the IT professionals are getting paid high. So what was the um what was what was the pragmatic criteria basically for choosing tech in general and then how did you know how to navigate within tech because there are so many different professions right you can be a software developer you can become a data scientist so how did you navigate that initial step of like which profession do I even choose in this IT field — honestly at the beginning I was preparing a bit for everything you know that's why I did data science that engineering you know um but uh then I realized that uh yeah DevOps uh was like a very strong trend you know. — Mhm. And then after CGBT came out, you know, and all these revolution, I saw that yeah, DevOps is one of the more uh career proof, you know, future proof careers uh that exist. And I'm very happy you know that I ended up in this field and also yeah it's a field that it's always growing you know it's uh challenging always you know you will never get bored you know because there are always new tools appearing you know and you have constant constantly be learning. Yeah. — Yeah. And I like — did you see also any difference in terms of like um monetary difference between where you were working the industry and you know what type of salaries you could get let's say in DevOps or cloud engineering or anything in tech uh industry in general was that in any way part of your decision? I yes I did a bit of research you know and I saw that uh cloud devop roles they were really well paid but it was more when you had a lot of experience like after five years you know three five years at the beginning I have to say that my switch is a bit uh particular because I was coming from a position where I was senior from a career so my salary was — pretty good and uh indeed uh you know when I did the switch and to my first role to Swisscom, I had to accept a pay cut. But yeah, I thought about it as an investment because I was really learning a professional skills and now my current job I'm making a bit more than my previous senior role, you know, at medical devices. So yeah, it's already paying off and this is only my second job, you know, in the field — and I've seen that with years of experience it really sums up. Yeah. — Oh, interesting. So like initially when you started as a junior of course it was like pay cut because you came from a senior position from another field but then you quickly kind of caught up um with the experience. I see. Uh so I remember this also from my own experience when I started in tech and IT uh because I started as a software engineer and even within the software engineering it was already overwhelming enough but here you are you're trying to decide you know which and you're doing research about like which specific profession to choose. So when you were doing all these data science v you know tutorials and courses and these other stuff like what was your thinking like did you think like this is all overwhelming I need to stick to one of the one of them I need to do a bit more like deeper research did you ask any anybody like other people did you reach out to make that decision or how easy or difficult was it? It was more that uh I was receiving more uh interviews you know when I was uh looking for uh my transition job — from DevOps you know from cloud DevOps and I think also that helped you know also to pull me you know in push me in that direction. I mean also there data science and data engineering are very interesting fields — but I yeah I find that devops has more different tools you know it's yeah there's more variety you know and I like that you know that you are yeah need to — so you like the challenge as well — yeah exactly — and when you started when you decided okay you know it is a clear trend um I like that it has many tools and technologies so that I'm going to challenged and I'm going to stay um motivated long term and when you made

the decision what was your strategy for learning like when you started watching videos and doing many maybe small courses like what did you create like a curriculum or a road map um how did you decide what you need to learn when before you know either found our videos or decided that you want to join the boot camp? Well, before uh while I was still working at Abot at my last medical devices uh job, I was already um preparing and passing my first cloud uh certifications. I think I already did back then the cloud AWS cloud practitioner and I think I also did the AZ 900 from Azure. Um yeah and then yeah I think that at the end of that year of 2023 this is when I yeah December is when I left my job at Abot. Yeah I already was starting uh very deeply uh cloud um cloud providers. Yeah like AWS I think I already did the solutions architect and other um more advanced certifications. And I think it's also back then when I started with your uh with your boot camp. — So yeah, it was that period you know between end of 2023 beginning 2024 that I was doing this change you know that it was very intense for me because I was mixing interviews with uh passing and preparing cloud certifications with your boot camp while also building the portfolio. So it was all at once. — Yeah. — But it was very stressful but also I learned a lot. That's the best way to learn, right? Intensity, high intensity. Okay, I understand your approach. So, you basically started uh gathering certificates because you also had a proof that you know you now know this specific cloud platform and you can you know do this specific stuff in another cloud platform — uh while you still had a job. So, it was kind of a safe way to you know kind of prepare this stuff. Did you start

applying for jobs right away with those certificates like without thinking first to actually do like a proper boot camp? Yes, I think uh I um applied for data scientist jobs and I yeah I got some interviews but um I didn't manage to yeah to pass the final round but yes at that time also I was seeing that I was more drawn to the DevOps cloud uh route you know and then I think I was researching a lot your boot camp or I even — started with your boot camp. Now let me explain why Anna's pay cut was not just desperate move. It was logical and strategic. So she was senior in medical devices, comfortable salary, stable career, but she looked at the trajectory. Where would she be in 5 years doing the same repetitive work, maybe slightly higher salary, same type of work, same limitations and then compare that to DevOps. Even junior DevOps roles pay competitively. But more importantly, the salary curve is very steep in this industry. With 2 to 3 years of experience, you are making significantly more. With 5 in high demand globally. And more importantly, the skill set is transferable across industries and countries. So the calculation was simple. Temporary pay cut for 6 to 12 months, then recover and exceed within 2 years. And that's exactly what happened. She's now on her second DevOps job, making more than her original salary as a senior in her previous career before switching to DevOps. But here is what did not work initially, certifications alone. She passed AWS cloud practitioner, Azure or a 900 solutions architect certificate. And consider that professional certifications take time and money. And she was still struggling to get interviews. And when she did get the interviews, she was not able to pass them. So the question is why? Why do certifications not actually help? Simply because certifications prove that you can pass exams, but they don't prove whether you can build production systems or not. And that's what employers actually test in interviews. And that's the skill set that they're looking for. So she clearly needed something else, something that would prove that she could actually do the work as a DevOps engineer once the company hired her to the decision to enroll in our DevOps boot camp. But very important to understand, it was not just doing the DevOps boot camp. It was how she approached it that actually made the difference and what makes her story so inspiring.

What was the decision like? Like why did you decide I need guidance? I need structure to learn DevOps like what was your decision like specifically for doing the DevOps boot camp with us? Yeah, I mean what I found it it's quite overwhelming you know the DevOps um environment um ecosystem there are so many tools and so many courses what I really like from your boot camp it's that it's really structured and it mixes both theory plus hands-on you know and you build a really strong portfolio with your six exercises and they are very challenging and also you prepare for the interviews because you really explain very well all the concepts s and yeah you can use uh review your theory you know and use how you explain these things for the interviews for the when you are looking hunting for jobs. — Yeah. And what about before you enrolled like did you feel like you know I've watched these videos and I've you know done some small courses but I need like a really structured guide or what did you decide to even enroll before you kind of knew like what was expecting you in the boot camp? Do you remember that reasoning — before? Uh yeah. I mean uh I knew that uh to get a job in DevOps and cloud I needed three things. I needed certifications professional certifications. This is something that I was already doing. I needed the concepts the theory the theoretical concepts very clear and this is something that I yeah that I had a gap that and I needed a reinfor reinforcement and also I needed a very strong portfolio to show my projects to the interviewers and so these two last areas I needed help and that's when I was researching on YouTube yeah because on YouTube also you can find good projects but yeah sometimes yeah the problem of YouTube is that many people can find them and probably the interviewers they will find a lot of candidates with the same projects you know and you need to stand out somehow and when I found uh through your YouTube videos that you had a boot camp you know in DevOps I was really intrigued and then I did some research and I really liked it and I'm very happy that I finally did that because it really helped me finding a job — um so our demos boot camp is pretty intense like it also takes a lot of time for someone to dedicate like fully and do all these projects because as you said the projects are actually challenging because uh you can't like do like two hours and then stop and then come back and do another like you're actually building something for or days kind of a chain of demos like put tied together because at the end you have this full project. So did you have any goal when you enrolled like you know I'm going to uh learn this intensely. I'm going to study. I'm going to dedicate my time and hours because I have this goal to start applying for jobs. Uh like did you want to uh how did you balance the speed of learning and making sure you get it done as fast as possible so you can get a job versus the depth of I really want to take my time and learn all the concepts and understand and do all the projects hands-on which take time like what was the learning uh journey like for you? Yeah. What how I approach it, it was I had like a first um I uh put in play all the videos, you know, to a bit fast like maybe 1. 5 or even sometimes two fold to have like an overview, you know, I watch the videos passively to have like week understanding like an overview of what were the tools that I was going to use and then I did a second uh round when I was really doing the exercises. Then I reviewed many times, you know, as much uh times I needed to really understand and grasp the concepts, you know, in order to do the exercises. And also I did a third round when I had interviews, you know, then I really uh reviewed uh that topics, you know, that they were normally asking in the interviews, Kubernetes or Docker or Terraform. So I built that parts you know so that all the concepts stick you know I had them in my memory so I could explain them — when they asked me. — And did you learn like every single day like multiple hours or did you like did you have free time actually to do the boot camp full-time? — I mean yeah during that time yeah as I say it was pretty intense and I was doing yeah multiple things. I was doing the boot camp and I also I was preparing certifications, cloud certifications and I didn't socialize that much you know — you have to sacrifice something you

know. — Yeah. Yeah. Let me pause here. Anna just revealed the complete framework what I call the triple proof strategy and this is what actually gets you hired when you have no DevOps experience. So proof one is certifications. What they prove is you invested time and money. You studied foundational concepts. You passed standardized tests. So it definitely proves your dedication and knowledge of fundamentals. What they don't prove is whether you can build anything in practice. So here comes proof number two. Structured learning similar to boot camp. What it proves is you followed a complete curriculum start to finish. You learned in the right order. You built integrated projects, not just isolated demos of individual technologies. And what it gives you is conceptual understanding. So the why behind configurations as well as big picture overview of all the tools and concepts which are part of DevOps which is by the way the skill set that usually mid-level to senior engineers have exclusively because it takes a lot of time and experience to build that knowledge by yourself. Proof number three is portfolio projects because that's what proves what employers and companies are actually looking for which is the fact that you can actually build production systems that you have practical experience. It proves that you understand how tools integrate in practice. You have solved real problems. You have built these systems in real environments with real infrastructure. You have troubleshooted and fixed the issues when things went wrong. And what it helps you with is interview conversations. Because when you present project portfolio that showcases your practical skills, it actually invites the interviewers or the employer to ask you questions like, "Walk me through this project. Explain to me what this project does and how it's built and why you built it this way. " So the interview actually becomes discussion around the projects that you have built that showcase your actual practical knowledge. Now here's an important part that I want to highlight. Anna's three paths or three round learning method and this was very inspiring for me. So this is basically how she approached learning itself. What strategy she used when doing the DevOps boot camp. So she did it in three rounds. Round number one was for big picture understanding. So she got the full overview by watching videos at 1. 5 or 2x speed to basically build the mental framework. See what tools exist, how they connect, what are the concepts and technologies in DevOps and how are they connected to each other on a high level big picture view. So not memorizing any code or configuration or syntax of Kubernetes and Docker file just understanding the entire ecosystem and how things are connected. And then round two was for hands-on knowledge, actually building all the projects. So she went through the DevOps boot camp, which by the way is 80 to 85% hands-on projects and only 15% theory. So she followed all the demo projects and built all of them hands-on, which naturally meant that she was building her project portfolio. And this is where the most fundamental and solid learning actually happened. This is where the most time gets invested. most focus is needed. But this is where you learn the most. When pipelines broke, troubleshooting them, when configurations failed, understanding why while fixing them, using our support to immediately find the issue and the fix. And this entire round of learning by building things, not just theory, laid the actual foundation of her DevOps expertise and knowledge. And number three was for interviews which was reviewing specific topics that employers would test practicing how to explain concepts out loud after having understood the big picture but also the individual implementation details of end toend projects. So basically transforming all that knowledge theoretical and practical knowledge into communication ability. Now some people do round one only. A lot of people do round two but almost nobody does round three. So that is literally the extra step or extra mile that she went through to really nail her knowledge but also be able to communicate it most effectively during the interviews. And notice the sacrifice but and I know this from my own experience but I still find it very inspirational when I hear such stories. She literally did not socialize for 6 months. She had full focus on her goals and learning. No half measures and half-doing things. And it makes sense because here's the reality. You cannot learn DevOps deeply while maintaining your entire social calendar and maybe some other full-time responsibilities on the side and just doing one or two hours on the weekend of casual learning because deep learning requires sustained focus. The good news is that you only need to do that for a short period of time. So that sacrifice is temporary. It's literally just six months of intense focus. It's not ears, but that's the trade. And it works because after those six months, you have all three proofs. You're not just another candidate with certifications. You are someone who can demonstrate structured learning and ability to actually build things, which is the only thing that employers care about. Those certificates, even the project portfolios, everything is just to prove that you can actually build something. Now let's see how her strategy played out in actual interviews. So Anna had her triple proof strategy in place, certifications, the boot camp completion with integrated projects, portfolio on GitHub. So she started applying for jobs. And this is where most people will discover that getting interviews and passing interviews are completely different challenges. So let me show exactly what that means.

Mhm. Um, okay. So, let's talk about the interview part. So, you know, you complete at least some part of the boot camp. You are already applying for jobs. Uh, you were doing all these careers, you know, the cloud certifications on the side, like too much intense stuff going on. Um, so you were lending interviews, I'm assuming, at this point because you were you actually were, you know, collecting all these certificates and you were building your project portfolio, but how were the interviews like? Like when you were going to the interview, like did you feel confident? Did you answer the questions? You know, did you feel like, okay, there's still something I'm missing. I need to go back and learn more. Like what was the first stage uh or phase of those interviews like? I mean I was surprised that they were very technical but as I said uh you cover all the topics that uh they were asking and yeah probably the first interview that I did I didn't do it that well but I think it's also like a skill you know like doing interviews is a skill and you improve you know while you do more and then I remember that the first interviews like I was collecting you know all this intel you know writing down the questions that they were asking and then I was rereading all the parts you know from your boot camp and then I was preparing you know the right answers and then after yeah I was doing it much better. Yeah. Do you remember any challenging or like difficult technical questions that they asked you like little bit later once you had learned everything from let's say the devil's boot camp you had completed all this stuff and that you were like prepared and they asked you like some either technical deeply technical question or maybe architecture question and you were able to reply with confidence like you knew that you answered it perfectly. Did you remember any such question? many questions about Kubernetes can be very challenging and I remember yeah that thanks to your boot camp yeah I was pretty confident answering them — do did you remember do you remember the questions specifically what they asked — no I mean it's been a long time more than one year but yeah I remember that they were challenging yeah they can ask you about the architecture and also maybe how you would you troubleshoot that issue you know things like this you know like sit this scenario based situational They can be tricky questions to answer. I would say — you need to prove that you have experience you know to answer them. — And what about uh because you didn't have a like a DevOps working experience but you like you didn't even have experience to work as a you know survey administrator or software engineer. So how did you fill that gap? Do you think that because DevOps is not an entrylevel position in it right? companies would usually require some kind of pre-existing IT experience. So, how do you think you managed to uh get those interviews and convince those potential employers to see you know I actually have this knowledge that you re you need even though I don't have the experience. How did you bridge that gap do you think? Yeah, I think uh showing that I have completed a boot camp, a deos boot camp, this is like a social proof and also people recognize you, you know, I remember that when I was applying and when I was talking with interviewers, they know who you are, you know, from your videos from YouTube. So, — so yeah, it's good. I I usually tell students to actually include it in their CV to include it in the LinkedIn profile because you know when people know okay you actually did the boot camp from us especially if you are applying at a technical company like they would actually know the name so it's actually beneficial but it's good to hear it's amazing — yeah and also uh yeah the projects I mean you have to send your CV and your CV normally you have a link to your GitHub so they can uh see your uh projects you know beforehand and um that you know the projects uh if you can explain them confidently you know then they know that you know your stuff and also the certifications the professional certifications because they are tough to get I think if you have these three things like um the Deops boot camp yeah it was super useful for me because I don't have a computer science background you know — but also I find that they don't really teach DevOps you know uh if you study computer science so the only way to really learn it is either by the job, you know, if you have the experience or through a boot camp like yours. Yeah. Or self-study. But yeah, if you self-study, it's a bit difficult to really show, you know, that you have the level enough, you know, to work later as a DevOps. — Yeah, that's a really good point. So, you can't have a traditional degree in DevOps. That's current at least currently it's not possible. So you have to have it either from self-arning or from experience or like a boot camp or a professional program. So you sent your DevOps portfolio along with your applications to kind of showcase your skills, right? Did they ask you questions about your projects that you sent them? — Yeah, they always are. Yes, — they always are. Three words that prove everything that I said before. Every single interview they asked about her projects. Not do you have projects but explain this project? Walk me through your architecture decisions. Why did you configure it this way? And here is what this means. Your portfolio is your real resume. The CV may get you an interview or it may just put you in the pile of 100 other candidates who have CVs that look very similar to yours. And I'm talking specifically about those who are just entering the engineering career, who are just trying to land their first DevOps job. So once you get past that initial stage and you actually lend an interview, they will not pull up your CV. They will pull up your GitHub or GitLab account. They will look at your repositories, your projects, and they will ask you to explain what you built. And this is exactly where random tutorials and cheap courses fail you. Because if you copypasted a project without understanding it, you can't answer these questions like why did you use this approach? Or what architecture decisions did you make here? What alternatives did you consider? Or how would you handle this differently in production? And more importantly, if you did some crash courses, including ours, by the way, on YouTube, or some, you know, quick and cheap Udemy courses, your projects are going to be basic and simple. They will not be applicable to production environments. If you have a Terraform project from a small course that just provisions a few EC2 instances on AWS, there is not much discussion that is going to evolve out of that during the interview because it's not a complex production grade project that you have built with some architecture decisions. But if you built projects through a structured boot camp that took you through end-to-end projects with an array of tools involved and integrated with each other for complex scenarios. Plus, while building those projects, you actually understood all the concepts, the configuration details, why you made certain configurations, what decisions were involved in every step of that building phase. Then you can explain everything in detail during the interview because you understand what decisions were made. You understand entire project from a highle perspective, the architecture decisions, the design because I literally explain everything in detail while building the projects in the DevOps boot camp. So when you have that combination of a very complex production grade project that your interviewer is analyzing and basing their interview questions on, but you also understand exactly what was built, how and every single line of configuration was explained to you, then you're going to be able to answer whatever questions they ask you about the project, which is automatically a proof that you worked on those projects, you built those projects even though it was provided by us as an educational material. Now there is one thing that Anna said that I want to highlight here. She said they don't really teach DevOps in computer science which is true at least currently. Computer science degrees cover algorithms and data structures maybe some networking basics programming obviously but they don't teach Kubernetes or Terraform CI/CD pipelines infrastructure as code and there are different reasons for that. One of them is they just can't catch up with the curriculum. And second, it's really difficult to find practitioners who are actually teaching those technologies in universities. But these tools and skills are usually learned on the job or through specialized trainings like our DevOps boot camp. So you don't get them in a official computer science degree. Which means that if you have computer science graduates applying for DevOps roles that are competing against you who did a structured DevOps boot camp which teaches you exactly those skills that employers are looking for, they actually have a disadvantage because they don't have that knowledge despite their computer science degree. So once they land the job, they will be learning all this from scratch in many cases. And as I said, the boot camp projects will be more relevant than their degree in many cases because your portfolio will demonstrate more practical knowledge than their theoretical coursework.

Did they ask you to explain like okay why you know what is this configuration or why did you configure it this way? So to make sure that the that so it's proof one they actually look at your portfolio because otherwise they would not know what to ask and second that they uh you know even if you have the same project as someone else they can still test you um whether you understand what the project means because you can you could have copied it from the internet right so they the proof that you understand what it is. Okay. So once you got the job uh by the way did you feel good about the interview about the from the job that you um received afterwards like did you actually feel during the interview that you did a good job? — Yes. And normally they are tricky because I remember that for my current job I not only did one interview I think in the end they were like three or four so they so yeah it was quite a long process — but yeah I felt confident and yeah I felt positive and — so did you have it with different people or did you did they just increase the complexity of the questions and interviews? — Um yeah I had it with a couple of people and also with my yeah current manager a couple of times. Yes. — Mhm. — Okay. — Yeah. I find that I mean I cannot really say because I didn't experience it before but this is what I read that I find that now as the job market it's very challenging. Uh yeah the process it's more and more difficult and there are more rounds than they used to be and also the difficulty you know on the interviews it's much higher than what it used to be. — Yeah. Especially for — you know it. No probably you know it because you have experienced it uh before COVID. No. And — when how was for you? Yeah. When you got your first job it was very challenging to — so for me as a software developer uh software engineer it was not challenging at all. Uh because I think when I started um years ago software engineering was still super highly demanded like DevOps engineering was not even a term back then when I started my IT career. um like platform engineering devos engineering like didn't even exist even I remember when I did my um internship as a programmer as a software developer it was a pretty large company actually it was a B2B software development company and we had one room in this entire building like one tiny room and there was one engineer there who was doing cloud and that was it like there was nobody knew like what was cloud engineering like we had our servers were actually in the building. So there was this uh team who were managing like the actual physical servers. So it was completely different landscape to be honest like I could get a job as a junior or like mid-level software engineer within a week uh with like one or two rounds maximum. So I think this has become very challenging for software engineers. For DevOps engineers it's challenging because you need a previous experience. So if you are right now because you already work as a DevOps engineer so for you to get the next DevOps engineering job will be or uh you are doing envelopes it's going to be way easier than the first round because the first round they see you don't have any experience um in IT or in DevOps so they test you way more but when once you reach the mid-level seniority level then it becomes way easier so I think it has become more difficult for juniors, but it's become easier for the mid-level or senior engineers. That's why getting your first foot in the door and getting your first job is so important and then afterwards everything just becomes uh easier and smoother for years in the future. So, um yeah. — Yeah, that's true. My

advice is that uh as a junior or as a career switcher, you need to really prepare a lot now and yeah, you need proof um as many proof as you can through certificates, through your boot camp, through project, but uh yeah, projects that stand out that are not the normal projects, you know, that anybody can uh can obtain, you know, like watching a video on YouTube or Udemy course, you know, like also yeah, they value like unique projects. I remember that I did some hackathons you know and also they really like that you know that because they are really unique that you build in one weekend. — Yeah. — Or even if you try to do a startup or something and if it fails also you can use that you know as a project to explain you know during an interview and they really like it because yeah it proves that you have yeah initiative yeah that even if you could manage to get a user base people are really impressed with that. Yeah, — I think this is really good advice because basically so it shows that you were interested and curious and you were doing a lot of things as you were doing like you know getting the cloud certificates and you know doing this project and that project but also instead of sending a demo project that shows you ba you know setting up a basic AWS infrastructure with Terraform uh of course you will stand out if you have like this end toend uh CI/CD pipeline configured with Kubernetes and Argo CD or whatever like the entire project in your uh demo project. So, it's way better to have one very deep uh technical project than have like hundred simple projects, right? Here's my simple enzy, here's my simple terraform and all of them kind of detached from each other. Um, so I think yeah, I think that's a really good advice to have projects that stand out and are not just like copy paste from some simple demos from internet. And this is also why the triple proof strategy works so well because certifications show foundational study. So you invested your time in learning to acquire those certificates. The boot camp shows structured learning and the portfolio that you build from boot camp or the training shows that you can actually build things. And together this combination of proof overcome the no IT experience barrier. And the proof is that Anna got multiple offers. So she proved that it works. Now came the decision that most people get wrong. Which offer should you accept and this is where understanding your first DevOps job as a strategic stepping stone of your future career not as a destination becomes critical.

Another thing I'm curious about is you get this job and it's your first job uh first day at your job like you need to join this DevOps team. Like did you feel nervous? Did you feel anxious? Like am I actually going to be able to do anything at this job? Like you know these are engineers with more experience. I've never had this job like I've never done this actually in practice. — Yeah. I mean of course and yeah I think um this is normal. I think uh a lot of juniors know go through that. It only gets better with experience. I would say you know that you're feeling more confident in your skills and yeah you have to keep pushing keep doing tickets and then yeah you're growing then this confidence you know by experience. — Yeah. And uh did you have a mentor when you joined like did you get proper onboarding? Uh did you get just thrown into cold water and like this is our Jira board just take whatever DevOps ticket and do it or how was the first — I had like a colleague you know who showed me yeah like a mentor we could say yes — uh was it a devos engineer himself? — Yes. Um, and did you do like pair programming at the beginning or did you actually start okay or what was your first impression of like you know I can do this stuff like I know how to configure this I don't know if they used a kubernetes cluster or terraform but you know feeling like you know I'm doing this pair programming with you but I can do this alone or I can take over this task and I can do this thing or did you still feel like cautious and little bit anxious about it? I think depends on the ticket you know because ticket they can touch different topics you know and there are topics that you feel uh more confident or you have uh more experience with them or you have seen in the past. Yeah. Depends on the topic I would say. — Yeah. — Okay. So the there were some tasks where did you remember the examples of both like where you get had a ticket where you said okay I can actually handle this. I'm going to do it alone versus ticket where like I don't know how to do this. I've never done this before. I'd rather not touch it. — Yes. And what you do when you don't know, then you have to check, you know, the confluence, you know, the knowledge base that they have uh to see if uh you can find something similar. If uh with that is not sufficient, then you have to ask uh help to a colleague, you know, and work together with him to resolve the issue. if you remember exactly which uh project knowledge or which uh hands-on projects from the DevOps boot camp you could actually apply directly in your projects at work. Yeah, I mean all the ones that they were regarding container containerization, docker, docker compose, image registries, I use it every day at work also terraform anible uh also AWS you explained. Yeah, EC2 EC3 this is something that I'm using every day lots of Kubernetes as well GitHub uh yeah Git

or GitLab. So Anna got her first DevOps job at Swisscom, great company, telecommunications, stable. She was nervous at first, which is completely normal. But the boot camp knowledge was directly applicable at her work. Docker, Kubernetes, Terraform, AWS. She was using all these technologies every day. Now most people would stay in this job for two to three years minimum. Build experience, not job hop because it looks bad on your resume, right? Well, Anna left after less than a year and this decision most recruiters would call a mistake actually doubled her market value. Here is why. Basically, currently you are working as an MLOps engineer, right? Which is probably one of the most like within the cloud and DevOps realm, one of the most highly demanded but also like growing in demand um IT professions. So tell me what happened between your first DevOps uh engineering job and becoming an MLOps engineer which is what you're doing currently. Well, the thing is that I mean probably it's more DevOps. I would say it's DevOps but as I'm working for an AI company, you know, we are also yeah helping with AI pipelines but I would describe more my work as DevOps the secops engineer either. I know that I have it that on my LinkedIn but yeah I would I would say that it's more DevOps. Yeah. — Um so how did that transition happen? Like did you switch uh the company? Did you change the role or why did you make why did you decide to uh make that change in the first place? — Yeah, because on my first company at Swisscom, I was a bit unlucky that uh they wanted me specifically uh to manage OpenStack which is a private cloud and they wanted me and another person to be the responsible for this um tool for this technology and yeah I didn't enjoy it that much because I wanted to work with other technologies. It's true that I was able to do some projects with Kubernetes, Prometheus and also I think AWS EKS — but it was like 15% of my time and I wanted to do that more often — and that's why I decided to change companies uh to my current company where I yeah in my current company I'm doing yeah I'm touching Kubernetes every day and yeah and public cloud every day. So yeah I'm happier with my current role. Yeah, I think this is also fantastic piece of advice for people out there because you basically and this is a perfect example of how to choose jobs. Not only be desperate and just get whatever job comes your way, but also be picky because what projects you work on and which company you work for can actually also define where you what chances you get in the future because you decided there's this private cloud that you know nobody else will use in their companies and I'm using like 80% of my time working on that while I could be learning and practicing the skills that I've learned for the actual DevOps world which is you know Terraform, Kubernetes and so on. So let me join a project where I could use and develop those skills which is very smart and valid decision because that's what counts towards your uh job experience. So it's not just number of years that you've worked as a DevOps engineer but also like what did you do in those years like which tools you worked with. So when you made that choice did you feel secure and confident that you are going to get another job like it's not a problem at all? So you were not actually risking anything by going to another project or by seeking a new job. — Yeah, I mean I was confident on my skills and I had your boot camp. I also already had some cloud certifications and at that time as well I think um I passed my first Kubernetes certification the CKA and I saw that this certification was very on demand. So yeah, I was confident on my skills and Yeah. — Mhm. And then you applied and how easy was it for you to get that second job? — It was much easier, you know, the second time after having this experience, you know, from my first job, it was much easier. Yeah. I have to say that. — Yeah. That's uh that's amazing. So the interviews probably also went uh much smoother. And when you joined the second company, so this is where you're working right now, right? That's the current work. Was the entry also different and smoother and easier like to get onboarded and to get started with the team and with the project's new setup and what technologies they used like did you feel confident like yeah I know where to find all this stuff and how to get started so to say. — Yeah. Because I had experience from the previous company that they were also using Jiraa. So there were a lot of overlaps you know of things that I have already seen. So it was much easier I would say. Yeah. The on boarding and

everything. — Nice. So tell me how your daytoday looks like right now. So you know you wake up in the morning uh I don't know if you go to work or just log in online like what does your day look like as a DevOps engineer at this company working with all these tools? — Yes. So we start uh the day doing a daily standup. Uh we have this 15 minutes meeting where we discuss uh the main problems or Yeah. and also which tasks we will focus on you know the rest of the day and uh also we receive tickets you know from Jira and we are basically uh completing uh these Jira tickets and uh yeah and these Jira tickets are part of big projects you know for different clients — yeah my company has many clients and yeah each clients uh requires different uh technologies you know so it's really varied um yeah skills you know that I'm using in this job. — Yeah. So, what what does like an array of typical tasks look like for you — for example? Yeah. That an application is not working and I have to investigate why then I have to SSH into the server uh with the terminal and I have to look at the logs and yeah find what is wrong. Yeah. Mhm. Is it in the Kubernetes cluster? Uh so are you SSHing into the worker nodes or is it just a EC2 instance? — EC2 instance. Yeah. — Okay. You know, do you work a lot with automation like Terraform, Enzible, even like CI/CD automations and this type of stuff as well? — Yeah, we're using a lot Terraform and also Enible as well. And at the moment as well in parallel I'm studying and I'm preparing for the um Red Hat certified engineer. Yeah. Which is like certification. — Nice. So you're continuing like you're not you didn't stop learning just because you got a job and you could learn a job but you like adding on top of it but you're using the it's also a perfect combination because you're using your job practice. So you can actually use those tools at work while also using that knowledge to get the certificate so that you have the proof uh in addition to the work um uh work experience as I said you could be working in a project that doesn't use enzible or terraform and still be a devops engineer so it doesn't prove that you actually know these technologies so the certificate kind of does that

when did you do defic uh did you complete it by the way or did to uh do part of it. — I still have to finish some of the exercises, but this is on my to-do list and I want to do it this month. Sorry for that. But I mean I did all the boot camp I did I read uh and I saw all the videos. — Yeah. — And uh yeah and I used a lot the part of Yeah. for work because we had to implement and yeah it was super useful. Yeah. I mean, uh, with the exercises, I mean, I did, I think, a couple and they were super challenging and I learned a lot. Uh, and yeah, I'm sure that when I finish, uh, the boot camp, yeah, I will have Yeah. improved the skills, you know, on security. — Yeah. Do you actually so since you already have watched all the videos so you know like what type of projects are uh included do you see a lot of the technologies and lot of the concepts from defici you know like SAS and DAS and all these stuff does your company actually implement those already or do you see that they want to implement them or like what is what does the theory and reality kind of look like? Uh yes I they are implementing yeah they are improving you know uh with security like with and uh also yes SAS vulnerabilities I can recommend you know approaches thanks to your boot camp. Yeah, it's really useful. — Yeah. Okay. So, um I'm going to ask you two final questions. The first one is we have a lot of people who come with non- tech uh background who want to break into uh it or specifically devos because that's why they come to us. But a lot of people have either this fear uh of you know I don't know either if it's really worth the effort that I'm going to put in or I don't believe like I'm not 100% confident that I can actually make it like with enough effort that I I'm actually going to be able to tackle this and I'm succeed in

and I'm going to be able to succeed in this role. What would you tell these people like uh anything that you also had as a myth at the beginning that kind of dissolved once you became experienced like looking back thinking like what was I thinking like it's actually different what would you how would you encourage these people? Yeah, I think that if you're really motivated and willing to put the hours, you can become whatever you want. And uh yeah, take me as an example. You know, before I was scared of the terminal, you know, I didn't know what it was. And now my current job, I'm using the terminal every day, you know, every day. — So, uh yeah, I also used to think that um what you studied at university really Yeah. guided you or you know set into stone your career you know your future job and this is not true especially in tech where um where yeah computer science doesn't cover you know uh because it's so broad uh yeah tech that uh computer science is really the foundation and doesn't cover many professions so you have to really study by yourself or with a boot camp you know or through experience and uh yeah if you manage to get a good program, you know, like your boot camp that has everything, you know, like they prepare the theory, they prepare you to have a very strong portfolio and they prepare you for the interviews. Then uh yeah you can with that you can really manage to find your first job in the industry — and then yeah then it's uh yeah grabbing experience you know from your job maybe getting deeper with depops or uh studying uh cloud certifications you know if you want to get deeper in some area yeah and that's it I would say yeah just — yeah getting experience and yeah improving — and final question. A lot of people do not like they can't sustain the motivation to especially at the beginning to learn so many different things at once because they they want to feel comfortable first like they they're afraid of this extra challenge like you had this intense few month where you were you know learning

all these things and you were applying for jobs and going to interviews. So how would you encourage those people to kind of change the perspective a little bit to think okay this is your few months of intense work for in exchange of like years in the future of if you want that comfort but like how do you encourage them to actually keep learning like keep investing in their knowledge keep uh staying curious and not feel like I'm just going to learn the minimum required to kind of get in and that's it and then I'm set and I'm not going to uh continue developing and growing. — I would say that everybody has enough time, you know, to learn new things that people should audit, you know, how they spend their day and they will discover that probably they waste their time sometimes with uh social media, you know, scrolling on social media or maybe watching too much Netflix. And yeah, if you change uh these small habits, you know, how you spend your free time and instead of spending four hours watching Netflix, you study uh yeah, prepare for your future, you do a project that day or you study Kubernetes that concept and you are consistent, you know, in three months or whatever months you need, you will really have a change, you know, you will have something tangible that you can show the world, you know, and that can potentially change your professional life. So — yeah, people should be um yeah, should be very aware, you know, on how they spend their time and should be more intentional, you know, on what uh they want to spend their time with. Yeah, I would say that people underestimate no what uh they can do in six months, you know, with intentional focus with a goal. — Yeah, I like that. Uh I really like that. So intentional being intentional with your targets and do not because especially in DevOps like everything feels overwhelming like you know when you even look at the curriculum it's like oh my god like there's so much to learn but if you take it in bite-sized uh pieces right just do it consistently step by step and I love your advice of like just audit your day and see like you you're probably going to find a few hours uh in a week where you can learn and then being intentional about it instead of just kind of being overwhelmed and and kind of uh drifting along. I love that. — And also I think that also it's important to choose a good program because what happens is that in DevOps it's quite overwhelming because you can find information from very different sources. But if you manage to find a real good program, you know, that has everything that you need like your boot camp also, you save a lot of time, you know, otherwise you have to maybe watch four different courses, hundreds of YouTube videos, and you will learn as well, but you will probably waste more time, you know, for the same Yeah. outcome. — Yeah, thanks for that input, by the way. Thanks for that feedback. I'm happy that you found our program and that our program found you. But that's exactly why we even exist like why our company has been existing and actually seeing the demand from the market for so many years and we're seeing no decline in that because we like very clearly there is a demand for people to learn this in a structured way because otherwise they either waste time or they lose a lot of time and month. um which then again you know is deducted from you know you could be in your career six months further if you actually save those six months now um so yeah thanks for that uh feedback — yeah and I think also it's demotivating probably you know if you are spending a lot of time and not seeing like a clear progress you know — it can be demotivating and yeah and maybe you are tempted to give up — but yeah if you have like a goal you know like you want this certification, you know, or you want to complete this boot camp or complete this project, something tangible, it's easier, I think, to stick to the plan. Yeah. — Perfect. Thanks so much. Th this was amazing. I love this interview, actually. Yeah. Thanks a lot for your insights. Um I found out a lot because I'm always curious, especially um those students that stand out, I always see the same pattern, which is they're always curious. They're they love the challenge like they don't run away from it. they actually run towards it. They're like, I love that, you know, it's so challenging so that it actually keeps me interested and motivated. So, I see that same pattern very clearly in you as well. And I think this interview will be even more inspiring for a lot of people uh in addition to the blog article that we published. So, thanks again for doing it. — Thank you. And uh yeah, I also wanted to

mention that recently, yeah, I started a YouTube channel um about um yeah, I don't know if you know, but I became a golden coupout this summer and um I'm the first one uh the first person in Switzerland and also the first uh woman in Spain. — That's amazing. Congratulations. That's really cool. I started this series, you know, on helping people how to become customer and yeah, I just started like the three first chapters and yeah, my channel is uh cloud devops with Anna and Okay, if — cloud deops with Anna we yeah we're gonna share this with community as well. Uh yeah that's amazing that's so cool congratulations. — Thank you. Yeah, I now that I have this first experience with YouTube, I Yeah, I have to tell Yeah, there's a lot of work. I was not expecting. — Yeah. Creating uh educational content is a lot of work. Yeah. But uh you can be really proud of yourself like this is amazing

really cool and well done. — Let me give you a summary of Anna's timeline. less than two years from pay cut to exceeding her senior salary in her previous industry. From scared of the terminal to golden cubstronaut, from failing interviews to teaching others on YouTube. That is a remarkable journey in such a short period of time. So what made it all work? Three things. The triple proof strategy that I mentioned before because certifications alone failed. So boot camp plus portfolio plus certifications together worked had the most impact because all three pieces proved that she could do the job. Then the interview intelligence system for her the failed interviews became data points. So she collected the questions she saw what she could answer what she needed more preparation for and each interview made the next one easier. And the third one was the strategic text tech choice. She recognized in the first job that she was working mostly with a technology that was not an industry standard. So she switched jobs to work with technologies that were mostly used in most projects worldwide. So she chose to work with tools and build expertise in the tools that are actually highly demanded by the industry which again is Docker, Kubernetes, CI/CD tools, CI/CD platforms and so on versus something that the first company was using but was much less popular. And as you saw, second job was much easier because her experience was globally relevant. And here's what Anna said that matters most here. People underestimate what they can do in six months with intentional focus. 6 months of boot camp, less than two years total of career switch from literal zero to an experienced, highly valuable engineer. A complete career transformation in two years. And as I said, the first DevOps job is brutal. It is difficult and the most challenging one. She proved that. But the second job is much easier. So the question is not whether this path works. Anna is a living proof that it does. Question is if you decide to do it, if you're really motivated to do it, will you audit how you spend your time and make the strategic choices of how to allocate your time and focus and energy? and will you execute the road map to achieve the same results and avoid all the mistakes that she showcased in this interview? And as you saw, the certification trap is real, the portfolio power is real, the strategic company switching is important and Anna simply followed this proven system with intentional focus. And as I said, if this inspires you but also gives you a clear actionable road map of what to do next. Now it's your move to decide whether you are going to do it or not. I really hope this was helpful for you. Let me know what was your biggest takeaway from this and what you are going to do as your next action step based on that. Write it in the comments below. And with that, thanks for sticking till the end and I'll see you in the next video.