And there's still no such thing as a secure system

When you were doing the botnetting, how were you getting these compromising these machines? Was it just rat? — No, no. There was no concept of that. The only rat there was at the time was sub7 and then CDC uh the cult of the dead cow put out back orphice and those they were only Windows based. When I was a hacker, we had a rule in our groups. You weren't allowed to have windows. It was too easy. Dead ass. You weren't allowed to have windows at all. We felt that hacking windows was too easy. Um but every system back then could be hacked. Literally, there was no such thing as a secure system cuz these things were designed without how thinking that somebody might want to break into it over the internet. The internet was still barely new. It was 10 yearsish old, maybe a little bit less. It was a completely different world. There was no such thing as a web vulnerability. I don't even think we had databases. It wasn't a concept. It was stored on disk. If you were to go to a website and purchase something, they would actually save your name, address, credit card number, and all of that into a text file on the web server. All you had to do was break into the web server and go find like cc. txt and you had a list of everybody's legitimate info.