World’s Greatest Trader: How To Win In Chaos

Why should we be long crypto? It's going down. And I'm like, that's the dumbest reason because it's going down. Like the reason you should be long crypto is because it trades at three to four times the volatility of the S&Ps. So when it turns around, you're going to make four times as much and the basis is lower right now. That's why everybody should have crypto in their portfolio. Just it doesn't matter how much, a couple percent, whatever. What's going on, guys? Today we got a great episode with Tom Sausnoff. He's one of the greatest traders in the world. He is the founder of Lost Dog. He also sold two other companies for a billion dollars. And then he'll tell you he scalped two exchanges for 350 million bucks. Great story in this episode. Uh in this conversation, we talk about what's going on with retail traders, how to think about volatility in the market, how to change your portfolio based on what volatility is doing. And he gives you some alpha, some of his trading strategies, and how he thinks about investing on a day-to-day basis. Tom's amazing. He's giving away a million bucks at the end of the episode. Literally, he's going to give away a million dollars, and he's going to tell you how you can go and get it. So, make sure you listen to the end. That's it. Here's Tom Sausnoff. All right, Tom. Great place to start the conversation is you've done this a couple times now. You have started multiple companies. You're one of the greatest traders in the world. I we literally have a YouTube thumbnail that says greatest trader did viral video. Well, people want to know what's the greatest trader in the world. I have to say um you're starting a new company. So, everyone immediately opens their ears, right, and says, "Hey, what is going on here? " Um but I think that you have some very unique thoughts and very passionate about this idea that there's a lot of people who are kind of being left behind by the US economy and this new company is going to try to attack this in kind of a unique way. So explain, you know, what you think the problem is with uh with so many people being left behind in a K-shaped economy. — Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that it's as much of being left behind as it's just there's this crazy imbalance. You know, like CEOs make a [ __ ] ton of money, a lot of money. And the average worker in some cases the ratio might be 400 to1 or 800 to1, but the average worker over their lifetime is underpaid. And when I say worker, I mean anybody between, let's say, 50,000 and 300,000. And you could be underpaid by a million dollars of your lifetime. You could be underpaid by five million just because you don't know really what you're worth. And so part of the technology that we're building is a really cool AI platform that essentially helps you helps to tell you what you're worth. That's it. I mean, it's very straightforward. It's not there's not that much complexity to it. And that's that. We're also on the same platform. We're also helping individuals to optimize their investment portfolio. So like for example, you know, improve your basis, show you where your outlier risk is. And one of the coolest things we're building is like this agentic AI for portfolio creation, but not like the traditional one like stocks or something like that. Like we're doing it so you can do it with crypto. So, like imagine you just type in build me a $10,000 crypto portfolio. I want four liquid underlyings. And in one second, you get back like, you know, four underlyings, the most liquid in a VA adjusted notional breakdown. So, you have $4,000 of Bitcoin, $3,000 of ETH, $2,000 Salana, whatever it is. And you push one button, you're filled. — Like, that's the next generation. That's what we're building. — 100%. I call uh everyone's talking about agentic commerce. — Yeah. — It's a gentic investing, but there's I think to me three steps. There is let me use these tools to learn and then I go and I make my own decisions. Then there is what you're talking about which is let me have it actually create a portfolio and then me as the human I get final press. Yeah. — And then the final step which is probably a couple years away is just like let me give it to the machine and the machine basically will go and figure all this out and there's no human in the loop because I gave it some parameters at the top. I don't think that we're there yet. I don't think people trust that. — We're not there. But I think there's a step in between those last two. And this step in between creating the portfolio and then just not having any hands off it is there is the one piece that everybody the one of the things that holds people back, which is, you know, I want this AI tool to monitor this stuff 247. So, I don't care what happens, you know, like I know there's nothing I can do if some, you know, if something blows up on a Saturday night or something like that or something goes crazy on a Sunday night or Friday night, but I'd like to at least know and where my boundaries are, where the unquantifiable risk is. That is for sure coming and it's coming like tomorrow. — And so, when you do that risk analysis, how much of this is uh specific to the market versus specific to your portfolio, right? Because it's one thing to say — it should be 100% specific to your portfolio. — Okay, explain more. — Because I don't like if you told me, you know, listen, you can obviously program for I wouldn't say you can program for opportunity. So like if you're like a noise freak, I'm a noise freak. Like so I don't care like if you said to me, "What are you going to trade tomorrow? " My answer is going to be whatever is in play. Like right cuz like I don't care what I trade. So, like if you said you're trading Nvidia tomorrow or you're trading, you know, or you're

trading soybeans or I'm trading crude oil, great. Whatever it is, whatever is in play, like whatever's whatever has the most noise, the most fun. So, I think you can train something to say, hey, wake me up when you know or ping me when something interesting is happening. But I also think like just having a piece of mind knowing that somebody's watching — is kind of cool. Or knowing that your techn is watching. — Mhm. That makes sense. And then what about uh I call this uh group of people an independent investor, right? So they get all of their information online. Uh they want to control their portfolio. They don't want a financial advisor, anybody kind of meddling in what they're doing. They want to live and die with their decisions, but they're also chasing a degree of financial independence, which they've been convinced the W2 is not going to get them whatever uh they want. And so what do you see them doing that maybe the institutions or other investors, you know, aren't doing as much of? Well, there's no question and I think the thing that the reason people like to think of themselves as independent investors and they should I like to use the term active but independent whatever. Um is because risk-free rates, let's say they're 4%, right? I mean, if you're happy with that, go for it. That's fine. Cool. But most people are thinking to themselves, well, what's the riskreward of being, you know, doing something different? And the riskreward is some multiple 4%. And so if you're thinking like, you know, three times, four times, five times that, then yeah, of course, that that's the excitement of it. That's the interesting piece. And so I think that that's what the, you know, that's the objective is some multiple of three rates. — Mhm. If you were that person and let's say that you've made a little bit of money. You you've kind of you you've done okay to well, but you don't have enough money to stop working, etc. What would you do right now? Like you know all the tools out there. You know how markets work. You know all this stuff. put yourself in their shoes. What do you start to do? — So, so I'm like a junkie. — So, so it's hard, you know, that's a tough question for me because I don't really it's hard for me to distinguish like, you know, to really understand risk is — be rational. Be um I'd be a little bit of everything. — Okay. Which means what — I I'm you know I believe everybody should have part in active, part passive, part active and part in almost every asset class — that you can you know that that's liquid enough. I don't think if you have just like a little bit of money you can afford illquid — assets. Let's say you've got um somewhere between 10 and 100 grand, right? somewhere in that range where you're not worried about hey I might not have money for uh you know rent next month but also you're not like hey I don't check the bill you know when it comes type uh type mentality. I mean, you're talking to somebody that believes that in order for you to get if you have between 10 and 100, in order to for you to get to the number that you ultimately want in order for you to build wealth, okay, there's a lot more to it than what are you going to do? Like I could easily sit here and say, you know what, you should be about 25 or 30% in passive. You should be 25 or 30% inactive. And you should be, you know, keep some cash on the sideline. That's not that to me that's a kind of a stupid answer. I think that you should find a way to get involved in the financial market so you can learn as much as you can in a short a period of time as you can so that you can grow your 100,000 into a million or 5 million or whatever it is. And the only way you can do that is by learning how to take kind of measured risk, quantified risk and probabilistic risk. And you cannot do that by just getting some portfolio breakdown. I don't think it's possible. — And what happens if you had a million to5 million dollars? Does it change at all or doesn't change at all? — Same thing regardless of the amount of money you have. — Yeah, sure. Why would it change? — Well, I don't know. You tell me. Um, let's talk about trading. Obviously, you spent a very large portion of your career trading very successfully. Um, what are the areas that maybe are risky today? Like, you know, let's talk about oil maybe as an example. Oil has been incredibly volatile over the last couple of weeks. And so on one hand, a bunch of traders are like, "Hey, I like volatility. Let me go trade that. " On the other hand, if you're a bad trader, uh, and you run into the oil market and, you know, it's a 77 goes to 120 back to 77 within a 72-h hour period, uh, that's pretty hard to navigate. And so, it does feel like there's, you know, a blessing and a curse to volatility. You're talking to somebody that's had a very hard time navigating that move myself like everybody else has. I mean, right now, I'm just short a ton of premium in there. So, I think because I think that is the play. Um, — explain. — I'm just short a ton of options. Yeah. Puts and calls. — And, uh, there's so much call skew in oil that the calls trade for double or triple the puts. So, I think that, you know, you can sell, for example, a call that's $50 out of the money. 50 $50 and you can sell an equivalent put that's $20 out of the money and you get the same exact price um, for two and a half times the distance. But that

premium is so rich. It's the richest premium in all the markets right now. So for me that that's what I've been doing. But um I think that th this market this as long as you don't get tied down because you remember we've already been this 2026 has been crazy because the meme stock of 2026 has not been a stock. It's been basically silver, gold, and crude oil. — Yes. — It's been three commodities. And if and so if you if you're not used to like touching all the bases and trading everything, you just missed out — on some incredible moves. I mean, the silver move that makes oil look like a kid, you know, like the silver move was insane. — Does that make an argument that um you know, I used to say that uh we went from 6040 to then we were going to have the crazy uncle portfolio was going to do really well and it was land, guns, gold, and Bitcoin. Right. Now, are you saying maybe it's like a buffet trade where you actually want to have a little you bit of everything even if you know, hey, oil's going to go sideways for two years, but when it moves cuz we're in the volatility generation, it's going to fly. — Yeah. — People always say to me, they're like, why should we be long crypto? It's going down. And I'm like, cuz you don't know what's going to happen. Like this, that's the dumbest reason because it's going down. Like, the reason you should be long crypto is because it trades at three to four times the volatility of the S&Ps. So when it turns around, you're going to make four times as much and it's and the basis is lower right now. That's why everybody should have crypto in their portfolio. Just it doesn't matter how much, a couple percent, whatever. — So maybe then it's like go look for the most volatile assets, wait for a big draw down and buy them because of the volatility. — Not the worst strategy, but not exactly my approach, but not the worst strategy. I mean, we call that price extreme. And I don't really have an issue with price extreme, but remember price by definition does not mean reverting. — Mhm. whereas volatility is. — So I've always been a volatility trader because volatility is mean reverting. — Explain the difference between price extreme and then the volatility. — So stock goes up, it doesn't mean it has to come down. — Correct. — Okay. Volatility goes up, it has to come down. — Okay. — Volatility is a math equation. — Yep. — Price is not. — Okay. So give me an example right now of what you're looking at from a volatility standpoint. — So crude oil um — Very volatile. The implied volatility rank in crude oil, which means implied volatility measured against itself. just a way to rank implied volatility. You know, it went from like 20 to 130. — Is that a lot? — 130. It It's fenced in at 100. In other words, 130 is over the charts. It's off the charts. So, that's going to go lower. — And it's dropped into the '9s already, and hopefully it'll go in the 70s and 60s. — So, how So, if you think that volatility is going to drop, which it probably will, uh, what do you do? Do you short oil? Do you short volatility? — You short volatility. You sell options. — Got it. There's only one way to sell volatility and that's to sell options. Um you can also think that based on sometimes where volatility is trading you can think that oh my god this underlying has capitulated like the night the Sunday night that oil went to like 119 or whatever it was you know volatility peaked at that same exact moment but sometimes — if you go back to 2009 when we bottomed — volatility peaked in December of 2008 and the market didn't bottom till March of 2009 that was really costly to volatility traders like me, that cost us some money. — Why? — Because we started to get long in December of 2008 when volatility peaked and the market didn't actually bottom for three more months. — Mhm. So, when you let's say you go into the oil market and you're going to go and you're sell these options, how do you think about what options to sell? — Um, I try to go far enough out of the money where I go to where it takes at minimum of a full one standard deviation move. So, I just use I just use the math. And so for me, I start at one standard deviation. Two standard deviations is too cheap the options, but one standard deviation for me is where I like to be. — Got it. So for oil, I'm assuming you put a trade on. So what? Oh, yeah. Spike to 130. — No. Well, actually I can tell you right now with my oil positions, my old positions, I'm short a lot of premium, my average strangle. So strangles you sell puts and calls. I'm short the um 140 call and the 65 put — and oil's trading this today. Let's say around 94 95. — I haven't looked at it since I got in your office, but around 94ish. — Yeah. So, you're doing pretty well — today. I I'm not up money on the oil position, but I'm going to be. — Okay. Um and then when do you know, okay, the oil, you know, trade is over, the oil game is over goes down. — Got it. And then you basically just look for — just cover. But what is the level? Is it 60, 50, 20? Is there a math equation? It's a gut feel. — No, no. It's just based on volatility. I couldn't care less about the price. — No, I'm saying volatility. From a — Oh, from volatility. It can be it could be a gut feel. It's anywhere between, you know, let's just say 30 and 50 in that range. — Got it. So, basically, you go from whatever 20 spikes to 130. You're looking for it to break down below 50

and then you're like, okay, mo most of the juice here is gone. — is gone. — Got it. Okay. So then let's say you — and that's when everybody else gets in and they start thinking, "Oh, well now it's calmed down. " — Yeah. — See, fear as a trader, fear is like your buddy. Fear is like that's the only friend you got. Cuz fear is what messes everybody else up, but it creates all the opportunity for you. — So [snorts] let's say you're a genius, which you are, and you end up uh closing out the trade. You made a bunch of money in oil. Yeah. — Then you say, "Okay, now I got cash. " — Yeah. — How Walk me through the process. How do you find the next You just look for whatever the most volatile spike's been. — Oh my god. I mean, we're talking about like, you know, it's like a bus. I mean, they it's I mean, after the silver move this year, I never thought that gold was going to give you this kind of crazy move, you know, a month later. — Mhm. — You know, I mean, it doesn't ever stop. That's the great thing about these markets, like, you know, um, and as we get like w as we get more and more products and everything, I mean, nothing ever stops. — And so, when you're going through this, um, is it always shorting the volatility? — Always. I'm I never buy volatility. — So volatility is a weird instance. — You're like a uh what do they call whack-a-ole? — I'm a one trip pony. So yeah, when volatility spikes and you just like whack it down. — Yeah. Okay. — So volatility is a weird animal. It goes up about 20% of the time. — Okay. — It goes down. It goes down. I'm sorry. I take that back. It goes up about 10% of the time. It goes down about 20% stays in what they call a lull state. just that does nothing 70% of the time. — So you have to take advantage of your opportunity when you get it. — Okay. So uh how do you know when it is near peaking? — You don't. — Got it. So like if oil spikes, volatility spikes, all of a sudden it goes from 20 to 50. If you start shorting and it goes to 130, that's not a good day. — Well, sure. That's that so I'll give you the perfect example. When oil started to run on this whole, you know, conflict in Iran, it went, you know, the first time it traded 80. I'm thinking, okay, you know, I think we're here. But I backed off a little bit, waited till it got to 85. The next day, next night, you know, next day was up $10, closed, and it was like82 or something like that. Next day it closed at 91 and that was the before it opened that night at, you know, $10 higher, went to 119. So, I was off by $35 thinking that I picked the top. — But you don't get closed out or anything because you've got some time to it. — I got some time and I have some money. You know, money gives you money buys you time. The one thing about the world of finance is if you have a little bit of money, it gives you you don't get scared. — If you The only time genius fails is when you get too big. — So, if you keep your position size relative to the capital you have, you'll never get forced out of a position. If you let your brain start, you know, thinking that you know something, — you're freaking dead. — Mhm. — Doesn't matter who you are, a Nobel Prize winner, whatever, you're dead. Today's episode is brought to you by Arch Public. I absolutely love these guys. Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates the buying and selling of your preferred crypto strategies. Using sophisticated algorithms like the intelligence, arbitrage, and oracle protocols, Arch Public executes advanced automated crypto strategies fully customized to your goals. 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They put together a short resource called the 2026 Bitcoin mining blueprint. It walks through the five mistakes investors make when allocating to mining and they also explain how to avoid them before deploying capital. If it sounds interesting to you, you can get it for free at simplemining. io/p. That's simple. io/p. Go check it out today and see if you should get into the mining game. Right now the market is very confused I think right uh there's a deflationary macro environment we've got deportation tariffs AI robotics etc at the same time we've got this massive inflationary pressure from oil spiking gas is up true inflation's measurement has gone from point8 to 1. 5 — 114 this morning — I mean just chaos in the market — what do you do to make sure that you don't get sucked into the fear the chaos the the kind of emotional decisionm — I don't have a so I don't actually have a macro view and I don't have I So, one of the sicknesses of being like a full-time trader is that you can't see past lunch. So, so I only know like I don't have like lots of people out there worrying about all this stuff. Yesterday I was doing a podcast and somebody asked me about stagflation and I go stagflation like you know I'm looking at what's going to happen tomorrow on the opening, you know, where are we opening tomorrow? Um, I don't have that view. I I can't think that way because then it will mess you up. Like you'll start thinking I can't do this trade because what happens if this happens? I mean, like, you know, the bond market is a perfect example. I've been nibbling from the long side because, you know, we're down under 114. I kind of like getting long here. So, I've been selling, you know, kind of a shitload of puts at, you know, around the 114 113 level, buying some bonds here because I'm thinking to myself, I don't know how much lower bonds can go here cuz I can't imagine we're going to raise rates, but if they go any lower, you you're sure not lowering rates. Um, but, you know, that's the way I think. So, I have a very kind of very narrow focus. is I try to keep I try not to think I try to pay attention to what the tape's saying, not what the macro story is. — It's fascinating because as a trader, you're trying to think, you know, what's going to happen before lunch. As an entrepreneur, you got to think what's going to happen over the next four or five years, right? — Yeah. I'm able to separate the two because as an entrepreneur, I'm all in on whatever I'm doing. Like I don't even — I couldn't care less. I mean, I care what happens to the world, of course, but I don't think about things like, you know, a year out or two years out. to think about, you know, what about the next generation that's going to take over this company, you know, all this other stuff. As a trader, I think about, you know, 15 minutes from now, you know, an hour, two hours lunchtime to close today. — Yeah. — And as you're building this company, you've now built what, two billion dollar companies, $3 billion? — Two billion dollar companies. And I've also scalped two exchanges for $350 million. — Yeah. You scalped them. I — I'll tell you a story. I don't think I told you this last time. — So, I built this exchange. Did I ever tell you this? — No. So, I built this exchange called the small exchange because I thought we needed a micro futures product and we did and I was bugging the CME for years to create one and they never did. So, it forced me to build an exchange. Then, as soon as I built a small exchange, they copied me and launched the micro futures which are now huge. So, they we couldn't compete with them. So, we happened to have owned another exchange from a previous deal, and I sold both those exchanges to Crypto. com for a quarter billion dollars. This is years ago. They didn't need the small exchange as it turned out. So, they sold it back to me for 10 million. — That's a good deal. Well, and then I built then I started to build this new exchange with the liquidity pool design. I designed it a little after um like unis swap type thing, you know, but it was for US futures — instead of crypto. Um and it was a really neat concept. I couldn't find anybody to clear it. So we turned around and sold the exchange to Kraken for 100. So um so we scalped them nicely. So those are good trades. But um what was the question again? So, when you think about building this company, what are you going to do differently? — Oh, I don't know. Like, you don't know yet? No, I mean, it's No, I don't know. I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm I think I'm waiting to find out who we're going to ultimately like kind of partner with, you know, and I know it's going to be somebody really good and because we're in talks right now with two really good firms and so I know it's going to be a fun like venture going forward. Um, and I don't know what

it's going to become. Like, you know, we're really in our infancy when you start building technology, especially today. You know what's the funniest thing about building like AI technology is that I have an AI team and I have a software team like traditional and they hate each other. the software team has zero interest in the AI team and the AI team can't stand the software because the a the software team's like the last thing we want to do is check AI's work we need to get hired to check their code and the AI team's like oh man the software team sucks they're too slow they can't do anything and it's like the dynamics everybody thinks oh you don't need software developers anymore because you got AI yes you do — of course — and not only do you need them they somebody's got to check all the work that AI does and nobody wants to do it. And it's like I'm learning all this stuff. Um and I'm learning, you know, like we talked about Agentic AI. I'm actually also really fascinated by um uh — by quantum proof encrypt encryption because I'm thinking, you know, like what's the one thing that freaks everybody out? It's like security now, you know? And I'm thinking like that's a whole different level of encryption that we could really build into our middleware. Mhm. — And I'm trying to like find a team or an investment or like I'm really working hard at like I haven't solved I haven't put together the people I need to. I've just got one person and I want more. — But um cuz I kind of feel like that's going to be — a big thing. — I know there's quantum proof crypto, but I haven't traded any of it yet. — I don't know if you have. Um but it's interesting to me. Let's put it that way. — Yeah. Um, when you think about these individual investors, uh, you're an options trader for the most part. Um, — well, I'm everything trader now. I don't like to say just options, but — but how many of them are trading options versus not, you think? — Like is it pretty pervasive in the retail space? — Yeah. I mean like if you talk about like the retail firms Robin Hood um Tasty, IB, um uh Think or Swim, you know, Schwab, 70% of their business, 65% of their business is options. — Wow. — Options and futures are now like 85% of the industry. — Mhm. — Nobody trades stocks anymore because stocks are really expensive. — Yeah. — You know, I mean, h somebody can buy, you know, what are you going to buy? A 100 shares of stock cost you $50,000. Average account size 50,000. — Mhm. — You can trade options for a couple hundred. — Mhm. — Um Yeah. What about um zero day options? Those obviously have become very popular. — Yeah. I mean, — why do you think that is happening? Just cuz that's what people wanted the most expensive. — Everything has the time frame for everything. — It's compressed. — Is compressed. And the world's become like this speculative playground. People love it. I mean like for so many years we shut down speculation because we're like it's no good for you know this nobody realized all the unintended consequences of speculation which is really positive for wealth creation for the economy all this kind of stuff and everybody was always like speculation's bad. Well, it turns out, and a lot of this is the meme stock 2021 stuff, but it turns out speculation is actually really good and everybody likes it and the zero days, perfect example, you know, all this crazy participation in options and futures, event- based trading, everything else, crypto, um, people like speculation. — Mhm. What's wrong with that? — Nothing. I mean, listen, Robin Hood built a nice business around it. A lot of — What about prediction markets? — Um, I'm mixed. — Yeah, me too. — Um, I'm mixed for a couple reasons. First, I think there's a day of reckoning coming with the sports side of it because I the states, there's going to be a battle. Um, an exchange battle, there's going to be a states battle, but my real issue with prediction markets, it's it's kind of multiffold, but besides the fact that they're binary, so they're not strategic, right? And I like strategic finance, is that they're expensive. So, if you trade um $100,000 of stocks, like let's say Apple's 250 bucks, you do 400 shares of Apple, that's $100,000. Your give up to theoretical commissions, every there's no commission. So, your give up theoretical $4, $8, less than $10. You trade $100,000 worth of a future, less than $10. Everything's less than $10. Stocks, options, futures. You trade $100,000 worth of eventbased stuff, prediction markets, $2,000. — And what you think it'll just come down over time as price pressure or what? — I mean, it should, but I don't know. — I mean, it's really what two major players, maybe a third that kind of competes in there as well. — Yeah. I mean, you'll have, you know, in a short period of time. I mean, you'll have DraftKings in there. They'll get they're already getting an exchange. You know, you'll have the C CBO's launching theirs, the Mercs launching theirs. — Um, then so it has to come down. You've got Kraken going to launch theirs and Crypto. com launching theirs, you

know, I mean, and then you've got obviously Poly Markets and Kelshi and, you know, but there's going to be 10 of these, 20 of these exchange. Why not? — Mhm. — You know, and then and then the brokerage firms. And my other issue with it is if you own a brokerage firm, the last thing you're going to do is give your customers to Koshi or Poly Market. You work too hard for those customers. I don't like the fact that these exchanges take customers direct so they effectively compete with the brokerage firms. Like a brokerage firm would never if a if an exchange the CME took customers direct, we wouldn't route them business. If Citadel give them any business. You know, everybody has their kind of lane. I don't like the fact that these guys are conflicted. — Would you think that changes over time? — I think it does. — Which way does it resolve? — Well, I think they become exchanges. — Yeah. So they basically they say, "Hey, we're going to compete head-on. " Yeah. I mean, they're going to say, "Listen, we're going to we're a facilitator. " — Yeah. — They have no they have no reason to take customers. — Interesting. See what happens. The reason I don't like it as much as uh I don't know if we want people betting on like how long the press conference is going to be or you know what color someone's tie is going to be or whatever, right? — Or if you're an investor in it and you know and you're betting on yourself like Giannis or whatever that kind of stuff. But I Well, I also think they're all small-time crooks. Like it's a small time crook business. — Really? Yeah. — Like in what way? — In that these bets are all for like you know it's like the whole sports gambling market's tiny relative to you know what they trade in an hour on one of the listed exchanges what they trade in a year on the sports exchanges. You know they're all kind of — just small. — Yeah they're just small. — Do you think it gets big over time or no? — Maybe they're not strategic though. So I mean people everybody's just going to lose all their money over time. — You know it's a negative edge. It's not as bad as a casino or straight, you know, sports betting is right now, but it's going, you know, it's all going to come. contract. — What about these people using the AI agents to go in? They're doing a lot on the prediction markets, but you think they'll do it in stocks, too. — No, I don't I don't I think it's really hard. — I mean, I've never seen it work. — Yeah. I mean, it's basically, you know, if you think of high frequency trading hedge funds, they're very good at it, but like they're pretty smart. They got a lot of technology. of, you know, all that kind of stuff. the average person, you know, on one hand, you can make an argument, oh, superhuman intelligence is going to be better and smarter than all the hedge funds put together, blah blah, whatever. On the other hand though, it's hard, right? Like if it was so easy, people would — high frequency I am friends with people that run some of the best high frequency firms in the world. I mean, they're just, you know, they're amazing and they're not using AI for that reason, for that purpose at all. That's why I know it's not they're using AI as a monitoring tool and they're using it for a lot of other things. and but they're not using it for trading. I think the thing people are missing the most with AI is I think the industry that's going to have the biggest impact in finance is the RAIA space. — Oh, explain that. — Because so right now you've got this like massive RAIA space, you know, like we talk about like the active trading market, what is it ma maybe a trillion dollars, — maybe probably less. You talk about the money managed space. What is it? 50 trillion some. It's 30 trillion with just like five firms. So, what are you going to need an adviser for? Right now, your adviser is a onetrick pony. They know what their firm tells them. That that's all the research they have. That's what they do. Now, they're going to have access to everything. That's going to create contraction and fees. What an adviser is going to become is your empathetic buddy. Like, your adviser is going to become your handholder. Like you want to go out to dinner, he'll take you out to dinner or she'll dinner. You want somebody to call up to make sure that everything's cool, you can call them. They're gonna hold your hand. They're gonna, you know, they're going to be there as your friend, but you're going to pay them instead of 65 basis points, 20 basis points. They're going to be smarter. They're going to have access to way more information. So, the fees are going to come crashing down. your advisor is actually going to be significantly better and they're just going to be like this, you know, this friend. — Um, and I think it's going to upend that business a lot. It's going to make the business better. — Mhm. — But it's also going to push a lot more people to understanding that the self-directed side is also kind of cool. — I agree. I think that the self-directed thing um is additive. It is not uh extractive from the — Could agree more. Could not agree more. It's like these people weren't going to go work with financial advisors anyways. They're just now expanding the pie. — Could not agree more. — Yeah. Interesting. All right. Uh you're giving away a million bucks. — Yeah. You want it? — Uh [clears throat and laughter] sure. Yeah, I'll take it. Um I don't know if I can get it, but uh explain what people have to do. — You can get some of it. You can get a little tiny. — All right. Well, how do people get a piece? Get their hand in the cookie jar. — lost. com. Just sign up. — Lost. com. And then how do you loss do? — Yeah. How do you determine who gets the

money? Um it is based on a um whoever signs up first gets more money. So it gets all spread out over all the people that sign up. — Every person gets something. — Okay. — For the first million people. — No, the first 50,000. — 50,000. Okay. And the more referrals you make, you get more or you get moved up in the line. — Got it. So like you get like a ticket number for the number that you signed up. So, if you're the 31,172nd person, you're that's your slot. — But if you make referrals and you can jump people, — you can jump people. — Interesting. — Yeah. We're using a third party software for that, which is kind of cool. I mean, it's not the first time it's been done that way, but it's a nice way to incent people to give referrals. And yeah, I mean, we're giving away a million dollars and it's in it's um you get Bitcoin, um ETH, Salana, and Stellar. — You get a pick or you get all four? — Um we were going to let you pick, but then it got to be too confusing. So we just you get to equal amount of each of all four. — Okay. And then uh how much does the number one person get? — I think the top is like $50. It goes 504 30 20 10. — So you get to a million — and then you just go from there. — That's right. — $50,000. That's serious. — $50. — Oh, $50. Oh, cuz you had to go all the — I could go all the way down. — Yeah, but a million bucks. — Yeah, it's a million dollar. — Yeah. — Well, it's a good way to think about it. Like if I went to go out and market for this company, you know, I'd probably spend a million dollars marketing, right? — So to seed it and so this way I'm like, "Okay, I'll do it. — Just give it to people. — I'll people. " — Yeah. It's like uh you're like the uh Mr. Beast of finance. — Speaking of him, I just read that he's going into finance. Did you read this? — He bought Step. Yeah. — Yeah. What do you think about that? — I you know, like I miss that. Like I don't I've never really followed him. — Yeah. — May I'm just I don't watch the content but I think very highly of him. — Oh I don't I Do you know him? — Uh yeah. — Okay. Yeah. I don't know him. So I mean like I have nothing to say. — I always tell everyone one story about him. He called me one time and uh randomly. — Yeah. — Afternoon middle of the week and uh he goes uh yo pump teach me something. — Five minutes. Okay. — We just uh we started talking whatever. We navigated a bunch of weird topics. He goes all right. I got to go. Thanks. Bye. Smart guy. Very smart. — What's his real name? — Uh Jimmy. — Jimmy Donaldson. — Yeah. — Um he uh the reason why step is interesting. I talked to uh I think it's CJ is the uh is the founder of that. Yeah. And um — it's [snorts] focused on helping like kind of teens Yeah. — start to build first bank account first build credit all that kind of stuff. So it makes sense for — uh you know Jimy's audience. — Yeah. I mean listen I'm sure he'll be successful. I just don't know enough about — different business. Yeah. Different business, you [clears throat] know. — All right. — Lost. com. — Yeah. — Loss. com. Giving away a million bucks. — Yeah. — That's better than any bun. Yeah. It could be worse. A lot of people you got to sign up for something and pay them money, right? — Oh, plus I give away the sub the platform's free. — Oh, okay. So, free platform plus you get some money. — Yeah. The platform is totally free. — Hey, don't say I didn't do anything for you guys on this podcast. You know, free money. Lost. com. Thank you for coming again. We'll — do it again in the future. — Thanks so much, man.