Editing a Novel: Self-Editing, And How To Work With A Professional Editor With Joanna Penn

Welcome to the Creative Pen podcast. I'm Joanna Penn, thriller author and creative entrepreneur, bringing you interviews, inspiration, and information on writing, craft, and creative business. You can find the episode show notes, your free author blueprint, and lots more at the creativepen. com. And that's pen with a double n. And here's the show. Hello creatives. I'm Joanna Penn and this is episode number 857 of the podcast and it is Sunday the 5th of April 2026 as I record this. In today's show we're talking about editing, specifically self-editing, how to find and work with professional editors as well as beta readers, specialist readers and sensitivity readers. Some thoughts on editing for audio and how do you know when your editing is finished. These are chapters from my how to write a novel audio book written by me and narrated by human me. So, uh that is coming up in the main section of the show. In writing and publishing and craft things over on the Indie Author podcast, Mattie Dowle talks to Robert Lee Brewer about poetry. And I always love delving back into poetry. It keeps the craft fresh when you get bogged down in long books which take a lot of time and which is what most of us write. You have to hold a lot in your head and across various documents and yeah whole big books can be difficult. So over the years I've done various poetry workshops and I always find them refreshing. So this is a good interview to kind of go back to some of the craft basics around words. A few things that I thought were interesting. Poems can be built entirely around sound or a single image. So, an author might begin a piece simply because a sentence sounds poetic and the words bounce off each other nicely. Or an author might be inspired by a single image and observed while out for a walk and build a poem trying to capture it. Or that might also be a single emotion in a single moment. So, it's much smaller. I want to say smaller in one way but also far more expansive in another way. I think what poetry does or good poetry does well is capture very something very specific that actually means something very deeper meaningful that we can all learn from. So I love that. I think it it's so hard in so many ways and such fun to try. Like I said I've done lots of poetry workshops. Yes, I have written some poetry in my time, but it's not something I'm writing at the moment, but I do like to return to it. Also, poetry can function as a creative palette cleanser for authors. They say if writers feel bogged down by a long book, stepping away to play with poetic formats, like turning a how-to list or a grocery list into a poem can be therapeutic. And I guess that's the other thing. It doesn't have to be complicated. You don't have to write something super serious. I've talked to Ora Ross about this before. She's a poet and you know, you can do fun things. It can just be a creatively fun exercise. And maybe that's a good way to treat it. Also, well, first of all, reading your work out loud is vital, but having someone else read your work out loud is also vital for editing because the auditory presentation of words is so important. Having someone else read a piece back to you can reveal places where the reader stumbles or struggles. It can show the author that the reader is naturally bringing a different emotion to the text than what the author originally intended. And I think this is really interesting because on the one hand I love the performative aspect of poetry. We need as longer work authors to practice more of this. So reading our work aloud or performing our work or even if you're going on a podcast or you're doing professional speaking, we need to turn on the performance and make our words resonate with readers. And if you've been to a spoken word poetry night or poetry slam, it is artistry and that performance of words. Obviously good rap music as well has similar vibes, but as with poetry, not for everyone, of course. But I think it's interesting to then consider how someone else might read it. So, I do read poetry. And of course, when you read it in your own head, I don't read it aloud when I read it for myself, but how I read it may not be how the author intended it to be. And with poetry, you can use things like line breaks much more effectively. You can use punctuation much more effectively to kind of control the way people uh understand the text. You can use layout on the page. So there's lots of things that are really interesting about the craft of poetry in terms of the words

and the layout and the language. So yes, that is over on the indie author DY author with Matthew Dowle. Great show. And if you want to listen to poetry and have it deconstructed for you, my friend Mark McInness, who's been on this show a number of times, has a podcast called A Mouthful of Air. A mouthful of air, which is wonderful. So you can find that wherever you're listening to this. And then in marketing things over on the Written Word Media podcast, Ricky Walman talks to a publisher of regional magazines about how to get your book featured in local media without a publicist. And this is very useful as many authors want to get on local media and it can lead to getting stocked in bookstores, speaking events, selling books in person, and more. So first of all, don't send a generic please feature my book email. Explain why that specific magazine or newspaper or outlet or podcast for example explain why readers care like it is not about you it is about them. You would not believe how many pictures I get here at the creative pen which are I published this book and I want an interview like literally every day I get more of them including from traditional publishers. It's like here's a book. It's like okay great another book. That is not the point. You have to consider the audience. Think about what the audience will be interested in, not what you want. Also, the less work an editor has to do, the better your chances. So, make it obvious why they might want to talk to you. So, the best pitch is really this is what the audience what why they'll find this useful, why this is a story your audience will be interested in or a discussion in. And here's five bullet points of specific things we can cover because I mean I do skim most of the books that I interview people on. I don't read every word of every book, but I get a copy and I skim and I prepare and I pick things out that I want to talk about. And hopefully you've heard that in my preparation when I talk to people. It's hopefully should be clear that I have actually engaged with the book. But I mean certainly most media are not going to do that it's not about the depth of the conversation often. So the less work that they have to do to figure out what's happening the better. And like I said from even from traditional publishers I'll get four or five paragraphs about the book which is just too much to read. So keep it short and think how many pictures everybody gets every day. Uh, also pitch earlier than feels natural. And for magazines especially, they say they plan 3 to four months ahead. So if you want coverage in May, you need to pitch in January. And I guess as we're putting this out in April, I mean, realistically, you're now pitching things around autumn seasons. And in fact, they do talk about this. Think in themes, not launches. Editors often build issues around themes. So, summer reads, women's issue, holidays, weddings, local culture. So, consider the themes. So, where we are again in April, if you're thinking about September, October, you might be thinking spooky season. So, actually now pitching things around horror and darker books for that time of year might be the right time. This is also true for podcasting depending on what's happened. I'm a little behind at the moment, which is why you're getting some audiobook chapters because I'm pretty slammed with my workload. But I do have conversations booked out for months. I just haven't recorded them yet. But yes, you do have to pitch way ahead of time. Don't pitch someone and say, "My book comes out next week, so I want some coverage. " You do need to give it time. Also, polite persistence. They talk about the followup. No reply does not mean no interest. Although I say also from my perspective, it may mean that because as I said, I get so many pictures every day now. I will often just delete them. I'm not going to reply no to every person. But what they say is it might mean they're busy. It might be the wrong timing or not the right issue. Following up a few times can pay off. And actually, if somebody does follow up a few times, I'm more likely to reply and say, "This isn't suitable. " But yes, the general sense with media especially is followup. And again, like maybe you you've now just realized you've pitched somebody around a sort of spring topic and you're way too late for that. So maybe following up with a spring topic in December might be a good idea. Also, exposure always costs something. Time, money, or energy. This is true for all kinds of marketing. It is going to cost you time, money, or energy. For example, people are like, "Oh, I don't do paid marketing. I do Tik Tok. " And I'm like, "Oh, well, how long do you spend on Tik Tok every day? " "Oh, I do like five videos and I do all this other stuff. " And I'm like, "Well, that's quite a lot of your time. " So, if you

value your time down to the dollar, how much are you actually spending on marketing? Versus someone who says, "Oh, I don't spend much time on marketing. " And I'm like, "Oh, what do you do? " "Oh, I do Amazon ads and I spend this amount of money every month. " Well, then you're spending money, not necessarily your time. And then in terms of energy, I think the biggest energy suck for many of us is the inerson thing. It certainly is for me. So, if I speak at an event and it there isn't a financial exchange, then it's going to be energy. It's going to be, yes, I'm getting marketing, but my energy might be completely screwed for days, possibly weeks. So, anything that supposedly is free is not free. It is going to take time, money and or energy. So you need to choose the kinds of marketing that suit your personality and the suit your book. And you should certainly if you want to do media, people who get into doing media can do very well. But it is a long game and you have to really think about building up relationships with story editors and things like that over time and also building up an email list. And I have said to lots of people, I still think this is true. If you only have one book or you don't see this as a career that is at least 5 years commitment, then a lot of this stuff might not be worth it. Like is it worth it? If you only have one book and you just wanted to write that book and you don't want to spend your time, money, and energy in marketing, then you know, maybe marketing the book isn't that important. Maybe you've done what you wanted to achieve. So really consider that, too. But yes, that's over on the written word media podcast which has a lot in marketing and is a super useful show. So on a sort of crossover on AI and personal things, I went back to Mansfield College at the University of Oxford last weekend where I studied theology 1994 to 1997. And yes, if you didn't know, my first degree is in theology, which echoes far more in my work as JF Pen than it does here, although some of it is in writing the shadow, I guess. And I went back to attend a talk on faith and code with a professor in theology and a professor from the computer science department. And they were talking about the intersection of AI and theology. There was so much that was interesting about the talk. I took loads of notes. Yes. notes by hand in a notebook, which is still what I do whenever I'm doing kind of these inerson things. And but the overall biggest sense that I felt because of course this was like a week ago now and over that time there was all that shy girl stuff and the New York Times and just the increase in stuff around AI in the creative industries. But the biggest sense that I got from this discussion was the respect that each had for the other. It was a debate that is that was based on intellectual curiosity and respect. There was no attacking. There was just both sides making excellent points. And I came out just feeling sad that the author community can't be more like that. I just thought, why can't everyone just be more respectful and have some manners? Because theology and faith and art and writing and beauty, all of these things can sit alongside technology and we can be interested in both in different ways. And I say this as someone who is now deeply into claude code. So Claude code for if you don't know, Claude code writes code, but you don't have to talk to it in code. You just write in English and it builds things for you. And so I've been digging into how I can automate much of the back end of the publishing process. For the first time, we really do have proper agent AI. Now, this is a system that does work for you. And at the end of the day, I I'm a oneperson business and I love researching. I love creating. I love the writing. I like editing. I want to create more as JF Pen and Joanna Penn. Human Me also does this podcast and what else does Human Me love to do? I mean, the main things I love to do are the most creative things, but boy, there's a lot that is admin around the back end of the publishing process. The business itself is not that complicated, but it is very repetitive once the book is done. And as the backlist grows, and I have a big backlist, and many of you I know have a big backlist, there is so much busy work in the per book tasks, the same tasks done over and over again per book. So most of us love the creative side. That's why we're here. We want to do all the creative stuff, but all the other things. So I've been building skills and processes for creating epubs and updating Epubs. I

mean, even if you just think about the updating the back matter of EPUBs, if you have a huge backlist, I mean, that's just it's just a big deal. I've been coding a translation pipeline, which this week I went through with some translators and really happy with that once my proof of concept is kind of finished. I will be sharing that with my patrons or I'm actually thinking of doing a sort of advanced AI uh webinar or something for people who want to do this kind of more advanced stuff. I've built Amazon ad management, data analysis, IP tracking, sales reports. Basically, working through things that I don't want to do, things that if the AI can do it, then I just want it to do it. It's going to take some time to work through the whole business given all the other things that are going on. But I can see it working now. And this stuff, I mean, there's some announcements around even better models coming in the next few weeks in April. And so these processes now can all be implemented in the back end so I can just focus on what I love. And I've been waiting for this for so long. I mean I started talking about AI in 2016. It is now 2026. I've been waiting a decade. And of course I know people who are much more technical than me who've been creating these types of automations and things before now. But now you don't have to be technical. You can they call it vibe coding. You can just talk to it by typing in English or dictating or whatever and it will build stuff. So yeah, Claude code is a lot of fun. And I get somebody did say to me, oh, my brain doesn't think that way. And it did make me think about the fact I do have 13 years experience of sort of business process re-engineering. Again, if you didn't know, I did spend 13 years implementing IT systems, specifically SAP, mainly in the financial area. And I used to go into businesses, map their business processes and then make those processes into the SAP system. So I definitely am used to being this person between the business and the programmer. I used to write a lot of my work was writing specs for programmers and telling them how we would do stuff and also configuring the system. And so now I just feel like I'm doing it with clawed code which is just so much fun. I was saying to Jonathan, my husband, I didn't think I would find this as fun as I am finding it. And essentially what I'm building is all these I've written something like nearly 60 skills now that all hook in to each other into processes. And yeah, really trying to figure out how I'm going to teach this as well because I know a lot of people don't think in the same way as I do, but I can see the dream. The dream is almost there creatives where we can do the stuff we love and we can give AI the stuff we don't love. And of course coming back to the code the faith and code talk. This is how I kind of think about it. So you can say creativity and code these two can be together. They do not have to be separate. None of what I'm doing with Claude code impacts how much I love the creative side of things. In fact, it makes me more creative. I am on fire with creativity because I'm removing so much of the stuff that sucks my creativity. So I was in Paris researching Crown of Thorns and all the fun and imaginative side of story creation. So yeah, I think that's my dream for our industry is that creativity and the artistry and the stuff we love sit adjacent to all the things that we get our tools to do. They do not replace each other. And there was lots more interesting stuff in the discussion. So I have been also yes another project I've been working on technothriller futurist fiction that uses AI and theology to well I'm not going to talk about it but I'm I'm excited about so many things and I just wanted to reiterate that these things can coexist in a polite and respectful way and my hope is that we will get past these fraught times because traditional publishers are absolutely using AI tools to streamline their businesses and while they're saying all this stuff about authors and authors are saying things about authors for the business elements of the back end of the publishing business. People are using these tools and yeah, so I hope that help might help you today and maybe inspire you a little bit and maybe if you're interested in that advanced webinar, it is something I am thinking about doing. I haven't set up a sales page or anything cuz again little bit too much going on but you can always email me joannathecreativepen. com if you think that might be interesting and I'll see I mean at the moment that might be too much for people but I do want you to start thinking in terms of processes SOPs standard operating procedures all of these things you can now be putting through something like

claude code or codeex or Gemini anti-gravity and building systems to do the back end of the business. So yes, more on that to come. In personal news, I'm in the home straight with my Kickstarter campaign for Bones of the Deep. I did a big push. I had like a I have to get this done. I did like 4 hours of cleaning up the sales page. The story as it's known in Kickstarter, which has a lot of images, so you have to create lots of images to bring the page alive. All the different rewards and the add-ons take time to set up with the right shipping rates, which are obviously important. I just have the book trailer and the launch video and that will take at least a day really to do the book trailer and everything. And I will also do a behind the scenes for the Kickstarter page for my patrons this week. And that will be launching my plan on the 20th of April. 20th of April is the plan. So like I guess 2 weeks after this goes out. And it is at jfpen. com/bones. If you want to be notified on launch, there will be a few consulting slots as well. I'll be doing a discovery writing webinar. I love the discovery process as you know. Also on my masters, I did finish. Yay. Hooray. I said I would finish more than one essay, but I finished one essay on the death in modern Orthodox Judaism. So, that is done. That is submitted. It is out the way. And I'm halfway through two other assignments and enough to put them aside while I get the next videos done. The year is ticking away, is it not? I mean, and it is time to get this book into the world. Then back to my dissertation, which I'm reading some really fascinating things on. I I've talked a bit about this. I'm doing digital necromancy and how our digital remains are used after our death. I think you're going to be shocked. I will be talking about this. You're going to be shocked about what is essentially legal to be done with our digital remains after we die and how little there's like no right to privacy for the dead and all of this kind of thing. So, as authors who and people who put stuff out into the world all the time, I think it's really interesting to research this. So, I'll be back on that as well later. Got a lot of open loops at the moment, that's for sure. So, thanks for your emails and comments and photos this week. Melanie said, "Thank you for introducing me to Matt Carden and the connection to JF Martell is a convergence. I love the podcast Weird Studies and your book on writing the shadow. " Thank you, Melanie. And Matthew Re sent a video out walking. Misty Forest and Mountain said, "I love listening to the writing at the wellspring episode as I walk in the Pacific Northwest. Any podcast about writing in ancient Greece and one's don is five stars. Yes, absolutely. And writer lass 5924 on YouTube said, "Fantastic interview. Very apt for me as I've been struggling with writing to market and finding it tough to the point that I fear some days I'm losing myself as a writer. " Oh, by the way, you don't need to write to market. That's some people do and others don't. I certainly definitely as JF Pen, I do not. Let's just say that writer last says, "I read Elizabeth Gilbert's fantastic book, Big Magic. It is a great book, Big Magic. Time for a reread along with Matt's book to get me back in touch and give me courage to write what I am inspired to. " Yes, you can write to market. Absolutely. But I feel like writing to market is a technique for when you are writing for income primarily if and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think it's amazing. If you want to write to market, you're going to make more money. But most of us are writers because we are inspired into various ideas. And some of those might hit the market and others may not. And I found as JF Pen, I don't tend to hit the market, but I have a lot of fun. Uh, but you could say as Joanna Pen, I do because you guys are my market and I know what I'm interested in. So that's what I do with my non-fiction. and so simple. 3585 also on YouTube says, "Great interview. At Matt's mention of cosmic horror, I was reminded that the other core fear it evokes is the idea that to the vast Eldrich forces in Lovecraftian type stories, we are tiny and irrelevant. Humanity is not central, not protected, and is not even particularly noticed by the universe. That's why it's essential to balance this kind of gloom with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and a large G& T. " Thank you for that. And it's so interesting because I love the Lovecraft, the Eldrich Forces and the cosmic horror. I read those books, too. But it's so funny because I don't find being tiny and irrelevant a fear. I find it a comfort. And that comes across in much of my work. The sort of the comfort that being insignificant is because therefore why not just go for

a walk or why not just curl up with your cat on the bed and read a book. And in fact that is what I did yesterday. I curled up with Cashew and finished Wild Dark Shore which is a fantastic book by Charlotte McConi. I think that's how you pronounce it. But essentially, it is a really good book and will make you feel small and insignificant and you'll love it. I think you will. If you don't, put it down. No need to carry on reading books you don't like. But I loved it. And it's funny, I've seen it around and I downloaded a sample ages ago and I just didn't pick it up at all. And then my friend Rachel Heron recommended it and so I trust Rachel and so I picked it up again and I did indeed love it. So yes, there's my book recommendation today. That's Wild Dark Shore. Okay, so please leave a comment on the podcast show notes at the creativepen. com or on the YouTube channel or email me. Send me pictures of where you're listening or any thoughts or pictures of your favorite cemetery or churchyard. Joanna thecreativepen. com. I love to hear from you. It makes this more of a conversation. And today's show is appropriately sponsored by Proriting Aid since we're talking about editing. And they have a spring sale running until 13th of April, offering 25% off all annual licenses as well as story editing credits for manuscript analysis, marketability analysis, and virtual beta reader reports. Because however you choose to publish, whether you go indie or you want a traditional deal, you need to make your book the best it can be. and it is absolutely one of my must-seols in my writing process. I use it to go through my first draft before printing and then again after I redo the edits before I send to Kristen, my human editor. So, Proriting Aid knows all the rules of editing and helps you apply them. And of course, you can choose not to make the changes as you like. It helps with making your writing more active, finding repeated words, finding words and sentences you could improve, adding sensory details, sense and structure, grammar and punctuation, typos, spacing, and more. It suggests improvements, but of course, you don't have to use them all. It also has that useful set of reports. So, why use software to help you? Why don't you just learn all the grammar and writing rules and apply them yourself? Well, we all use tools to improve our process. And we're also often blind to our writing issues. It helps to have another pair of eyes, even if the eyes are software. So, won't an editor do all this? Well, yes, they can, but I'd rather pay my editor to fix the things the software can't. So, I use Proriting Aid as my essential editing tool before sending to my human editor. Check out the free edition or get 15% off the premium edition by using my link proriting. com/janna j o na. And until the 13th of April, you can get 25% off with the same link proriting. com/janna. And that is their spring sale. So this type of corporate sponsorship pays for the hosting, transcription, and editing, but my time in creating the show is sponsored by my community at patreon. com/thecreativepen. Thanks to the nine new patrons who've joined over the last week, and thanks to everyone who's been supporting for months and years. If you join the community, you get access to all my backlist videos and audio covering writing, craft, author, business, and AI. And I did actually go through a bit of how I'm using skills in my last Q& A. The Patreon is a monthly subscription, the equivalent of buying me a black coffee a month or a couple of coffees if you're feeling generous. So, if you get value from the show and you want more, come on over and join us at patreon. com. P A T R E O N. com/thecreative pen. Right, let's get into editing. And remember, these chapters are excerpted from how to write a novel, from idea to book, written by me, and human narrated by me. You can get the book in all formats from my store, creativepenbooks. com, and also on every other store, or order from your local library or bookshop. Let's get into it. 5. 1 Overview of the editing process. Books aren't written, they're rewritten. Michael Kryton. Thomas Hardy's Tess of the Dervvilles is a classic of English literature. I studied it at school, and the scene at Stonehenge still haunts me. Hardy's due the obscure influenced my decision to go to university in Oxford, a city Hardy called Chryminster. His novels are still held in great esteem, which is why it's so wonderful to see his handedited pages in the British Library in London, displayed in

the Treasures Collection. You can visit them in person or view them online. While his handwriting is a scroll, it's evident from the pages just how much editing Hardy did on this version of the manuscript. There are lines struck through, whole paragraphs crossed out, arrows moving sections around, words and sentences rewritten, and comments in the margins. Even the title is changed from a daughter of the Dervilles to Tess of the Dervilles as we know it today. Those edited pages gave me hope when I saw them for the first time as a new fiction author. Not that I thought I could write a classic of English literature, but that I could learn to edit my way to a better story. There are several stages in the editing process, which I'll outline here and then expand on in subsequent chapters. As you progress in your craft, you won't need every stage every time. So assess with each book what kind of editing you need along the way. Self-editing. The self-editing stage is your chance to improve your manuscript before anyone else sees it. For some authors, this stage might mean rewriting the entire draft. For others, it involves restructuring, adding or deleting scenes, doing line edits, and more. Developmental or structural edit. An editor reads your manuscript and gives feedback on specific aspects, character, plot, story structure, and anything else pertinent to improving the novel. It is sometimes described as a manuscript critique. You will receive a report, usually 10 to 15 pages, with notes on your novel, which you can then use in another round of self-editing. While this is not always necessary, it can be a valuable step and something I appreciated particularly for my first novel when I had so much to learn. Copy editing and line editing. This is the classic red pen edit where you can expect comments and changes all over your manuscript. This edit focuses on anything that enhances the writing quality, including word choice and phrasing issues, grammar, and more. Some editors split this edit into two. And there are differences between what this edit is called between countries. For some editors, a copy edit includes only attention to grammar and correctness, while a line edit focuses on improving and elevating sentences. Be clear about your expectations and that of your editor. up front. You will usually receive an MSWord document with track changes on as well as a style guide or stylesheet and other notes which you can then use to make revisions during another self-edit. This is the most expensive part of the process as editors usually charge per thousand words based on the type of edit you want. If you need to cut your story down by 20,000 words, then do it before you send your manuscript for a line edit. Beta readers, specialist readers, and or sensitivity readers. Some authors use different types of readers as part of their editing process. Beta readers are often part of the author's community and are certainly fans of the genre. They read to help the author pick up any issues pre-publication. Specialist readers are those with knowledge about a topic included in the story. For example, a volcanologist read specific chapters of risen gods to check that the details about volcanic eruptions were correct. Sensitivity readers check for stereotypes, biases, problematic language, and other diversity issues. You will usually receive comments or an email with page numbers or chapter numbers or sometimes an MSWord document with track changes which you then use to make revisions. Many readers provide services for the love of helping their favorite author with a novel and a mention in the acknowledgements, but there are some paid services for specialist and sensitivity readers. Proofreading is the final check of the manuscript pre-publication for any typos or issues that might have been introduced in the editorial process. For print books, this can include a review of the print proof with formatting. You should only fix the last tiny

changes at this point. Don't make any major changes this close to publication or you may introduce entirely new errors. Do you need an editor? If you intend to get an agent and a traditional publisher, you will go through an editorial process with your agent and publisher. But if you want the best chance of getting to that stage in the first place, it might also be worth working with an editor before you submit your manuscript to an agent. Look for an editor who will help you with your query letter and synopsis as part of their edit. questions. What types of editing might you consider for your manuscript? 5. 2. Self-editing. I love this part of the process. My self-edit is where I wrangle the chaos of the first draft into something worth reading. I have my block of marble and now I can shape it into my sculpture. The mindset shift from writer to editor, from author to reader. In the idea, planning, discovery, and first draft writing phase, it's all about you, the writer. You turn the ideas in your head into words that you understand, characters that come alive for you, and a plot that you're engaged with. In that first rush of creativity, you can banish critical voice and ignore any nagging doubts. But now you need to switch heads. That's how I prefer to think about it. But you might consider it as changing hats or changing jobs. Anything to help you move from the creative anything goes first draft writer to the more critical editor. There is one overriding consideration in this shift. As Jeffrey Diva says, the reader is God. With the editing process, you need to turn your story from something you understand into something a reader will enjoy. Writing is telepathy. It connects minds across time and space. You are listening to these words and the meaning flows from my brain into your brain. But only if I craft the book well enough. The same is true of your novel. Yes, of course, you want to double down on your creative choices and make sure you achieve everything you want to with your story, but you also need to keep the reader in mind as you edit because the book is ultimately for them. Will your story have the desired effect on the reader? What might help improve their experience? How can you make sure that they are not bored or confused or jolted out of the story? What will make them read on and at the end close the novel with a sigh of satisfaction? My self-editing process. At the end of the first draft, I print out my manuscript with two pages to each A4 page so it looks more like a book. I put it in a folder and leave it to rest. You need fresh eyes for your edit and this resting gives you some emotional distance. In on writing, Steven King suggests leaving a manuscript to rest for at least 6 weeks. While that is a great idea if you have the time, most authors work to deadline, whether externally set or their own timetable. Many authors, including me, are also impatient. I love this first self-edit. And as I'm still crafting the story as a discovery writer, I usually rest the manuscript for a week or two. I schedule blocks of time for editing in my Google calendar. And when not in pandemic times, I go to a cafe when it opens first thing in the morning. I put on my Bose noiseancelling headphones and edit by hand with a black ballpoint pen from page one to the end. I usually manage 10 to 20 pages per editing session of a couple of hours each, but it will depend on the amount of restructuring I need to do. I scribble notes in the margins, draw arrows to move paragraphs around, write extra material on the back of the pages, or add where I need to write more later. I change words, rewrite and delete lines, and pick up any issues around lack of sensory detail, character problems, and more. You can see an example of a page at the creativepen. com/handedit.

Some pages end up a massive black, others are relatively clean. But in this first hand edit, no page goes untouched as I hone my manuscript into something closer to my creative goal. You can edit on a computer or a tablet or whatever else works for you, but at least change the font or the spacing or something to make it a different experience to reading the first draft. Most writers have a tendency to either overwrite or underwrite and so will either need to cut words or add words at this stage. I'm in the latter camp, so I usually have to add scenes or deepen characters or theme. At this point, once I have handedited the whole manuscript end to end, I make the changes in my Scriber project. I change the color of the flags along the way and as ever, I back up the session. When all the changes have been made, I print the complete manuscript again and read end to end and edit as before. This time, it's usually a lot cleaner, and there may only be a few things to fix in each chapter. Once I'm finished, I'll update the Scrier project once more and then decide whether it needs a third pass. Mostly two full end to- end hand edits are enough for me these days, but sometimes I'll do a third or go through specific chapters one more time. This messy editing process is fun for me, and it's hugely satisfying to see my story come to life. What to focus on in the self-edit. Some authors will go through the manuscript multiple times, focusing on different elements with each pass, using the aspects covered in part three and part four. For example, they'll do an edit based on character and dialogue, followed by another pass for plot, then theme, and so on. Personally, I try to keep the reader in mind and focus on the story as a coherent hole. That's just how my mind works. I jump from fixing a plot issue to deepening a character to adding foreshadowing and so on as I read and edit. I'm confident that my editor will find a lot of the smaller things that I might miss. So, I concentrate on trying to achieve my creative vision with the story. You will find your own way of figuring out your process. It's much better to jump in and have a go at editing rather than trying to work out the best way before you have something to work through. Lost the plot? Try reverse outlining. If you're a discovery writer like me and you're struggling with the edit and you feel you have lost the plot, which definitely happens sometimes, then consider a reverse outline as part of your editorial process. Go through the manuscript and write a few lines per scene. Include character, plot points, conflict, setting, open questions, and hooks, and any other notes. This will help you step back and hopefully see the entire story from a high level. Then you can dive back into rewriting each chapter. Read the book out loud or use a texttospech reader to do it for you. Many authors read their book aloud end to end which is a helpful step once you've been through any major rewrites. There are also plenty of texttospech tools that can help. For example, natural reader or speechify and some are built into devices or applications. MSWord includes a readaloud tool in the review tab. This will also help you edit for audio as you'll hear issues you can't see on the page. Editing for audio. Audio books are a huge growth market and many readers will listen to your book rather than read it. So, it's a good idea to consider editing with audio in mind at this stage. Here are some tips. Watch out for repeated sounds. The editorial process will usually catch repeated written words, but similar sounding words can hit the same audio note in narration. You might not notice them in the text as they are spelled differently. The words you, blue, tattoo, and interview all start and end with different letters. They look different on the page, but they strike the same audio note when read aloud. In the same way, repetition can work if you have a point to make, but sometimes it just jars the listener if it is overused. A classic recommendation for writing dialogue is to use said with a character

name rather than other words like uttered or pronounced. This is because said disappears for the reader on the written page. But with audio, the repetition of a word is highly noticeable and repeated sounds can dominate a passage. Rewrite with synonyms for said or use action to make it clear who the speaker is without resorting to dialogue tags as described in chapter 3. 5. Contractions or the lack of them can also become more obvious in audio. I am not going to the park might be spoken as I'm not going to the park. When we type dialogue, it is often more formal than the way someone speaks. So, check if you can contract it in your edit. Accents can be an issue with fiction narration. There are plenty of narrators who do a straight read, but if there are accents within dialogue, make it clear where the character comes from. Make sure the narrator knows about the accent choice up front. Otherwise, you might not like it in the finished audio. Remember my friend whose novel had an Irish character narrated like a comedy leprechaorn instead of the soft lil she had in mind. Don't confuse the reader. If you have a lot of characters appearing in a chapter and no clear character tags, you might lose the listener in the detail. When reading on paper or a screen, your reader can quickly flick back and see that George was the butler and Angus was the dog. But that's harder to do when listening to an audio book. Make sure it's clear who is who. You may have to remind listeners occasionally by adding character tags. For example, Angus ran alongside the canal could become Angus the Golden Cockpananiel ran alongside the canal. For more on audio books, check out my book Audio for Authors: Audio Books, Podcasting, and Voice Technologies. How many drafts do you need? The word draft means different things to different authors. Some only apply this term to a complete rewrite end to end, while others will shift paragraphs around, change some lines, add a new scene, and call that a new draft. Nora Roberts said in a blog post on her writing craft, "I work on a three draft method. this works for me. It's not the right way or the wrong way. There is no right or wrong for a process that works for any individual writer. Anyone who claims there is only one way or that's the wrong way is a stupid, arrogant bullshitter. That's my considered opinion. I love Norah's nononsense approach and she is right that there is no single correct process. You have to find your own. But beware of comparing what you call a draft to what another writer calls a draft. It may be something completely different. Use editing software. Once I finished my hand edits and updated the Scrivener project, I use Proriting Aid on the manuscript. It integrates with Scrivener. So I open my project and go through each chapter. Proriting aid picks up passive voice, repetitive words, commas, and typos, suggests rephrasing, and even picks up culturally problematic language. Yes, these are the type of things that an editor will pick up, but I want to hand over a manuscript that is as clean as possible so my editor can focus on other issues. I don't make all the suggested changes, but it certainly helps improve my writing, and I learn as I go through. You can even create your own style guide so you spell things the same way throughout. This is also a good chance to check typos according to the version of English you want to use or any other language. I'm English and based in the UK, but when I published my first novel, I received complaints about typos from my readers who were mainly in the USA. These were not typos, they were just British spelling. I decided to use US English in my books because US readers complain about UK spelling, but non- US readers will rarely complain about US spelling because they are used to it. You can set proriting aid to the type of English you want to use. And if you specify this later, your editor can pick up on word usage rather than typos. For example, using the term flashlight instead of torch. You can find proriting aid at the creativepen. com/priting.

You can find my tutorial on how to use proriting aid at thecreativepen. com/priting aid tutorial. When is your self-edit finished? You will be utterly sick of your manuscript by the end of the self-editing process. You have read your words so many times you can't see them clearly anymore. You are so over the whole thing that you want to forget the book altogether. If you don't feel this way, you probably haven't self-edited enough. When you really feel you can't do anymore, it's time to work with a professional editor. If you are putting off the end of self-editing, then remember that nothing is ever perfect. You can edit forever if you keep obsessing over changes and going over and over the same material. If your self-edit goes on too long, consider whether perfectionism is holding you back. Set a completion date and hold yourself to it. Questions. Have you set aside time for your self-editing process? Have you printed out the manuscript or created a new version with a different font so it looks different to the original? Have you shifted your mindset from writer to editor? Do you know what you want the reader's experience to be? How will you keep them in mind as you edit? How does your self-editing process work? What tools can you use? Is the reader's journey through the book as clear and easy as possible? Have you achieved your creative goal for the story, or at least made it as far as you can at this point? How will you know when the self-edit is finished? How can you balance doing the best you can with avoiding perfectionism? Have you taken this self-editing process as far as you can? Are you ready to work with a professional editor? 5. 3 How to find and work with a professional editor. If you want your book to be the best it can be, then working with a professional editor is the next step. An editor's job is to take your manuscript and help you improve it through structural changes and story development, line edits, suggestions for new material or sentence refinement, and so much more. Different kinds of editors can help you in different ways, from constructing the overarching story to eliminating the final typo. In my experience, good professional editors are well worth the investment as they help improve your book and your craft, especially in the initial stages of your writing journey. They have read so many early stage manuscripts that they understand the most common problems and know how to help you fix them. Some experienced authors only use proofreaders for their novels, but personally, I still work with a professional editor on every book, and I learn something every time. I am a super fan of editors. How to find a professional editor? Consolidation in the traditional publishing industry over the last decade has resulted in many more editors working as freelancers. So authors have a wealth of professionals available for hire in every genre. You can find lists of approved editors through author organizations. The alliance of independent authors has a list of partner members many of whom are editors. You can also use author marketplace reads. Many editors use content marketing to find clients. For example, blogging about editing tips, writing books on editing, or appearing on podcasts. I have had a lot of editors on the Creative Pen podcast over the years, so you can listen and see if they resonate with you. Most authors credit their editors and proofreaders in the acknowledgements of their books, and many authors happily share recommendations on social media in various author communities. If you enjoy a certain novel, it might be worth reaching out to that editor as you know they are a specialist in the genre. Check out my list of editors at thecreativepen. com/editors. How to assess whether an editor is right for you. I frequently get emails from writers

asking me to recommend an editor for their book. But finding an editor is like dating. You have to do it yourself. And it's likely that you will try a few before you find your perfect match. You may also change editors over your writing life as your craft develops and your needs shift and that's completely normal too. Make sure the editor has experience in and enjoys your genre. You don't want a literary historical fiction editor working on your YA paranormal romance or your hard sci-fi adventure. Ensure that the editor has testimonials from happy clients and check directly with a named author if you have doubts. Some editors will offer a sample edit for one chapter. This helps both parties decide whether working together is appropriate. The editor can assess what level your manuscript is at, and you can decide whether their editorial style is right for you. How to work with an editor. When you engage an editor, you will receive a contract with a timeline and a price for the work. You agree to deliver the manuscript on a particular date and will usually pay a deposit, especially if this is the first time you're working together. The editor agrees to deliver the edits back on a certain date and also to keep your manuscript in confidence. You can avoid issues later by communicating expectations upfront. So if you have questions about the editing process, ask before you sign a contract. Many editors are booked months in advance. So once you know your schedule, contact them early and book a slot. Update them if your timings change. Most allow minor slippage, but since editors plan their work around contractual dates, it's important to be timely with delivery. As a discovery writer, I only book my editor when I am sure of my dates. Submit your manuscript and once the edit is complete, you will receive whatever has been agreed. That might be a structural report, line edit, or proofread manuscript along with a stylesheet. It's usually in the form of an MSWord document by email. Some editors may offer a call to discuss, but I have never spoken to an editor as part of my process. It has never been necessary. It's all about the words on the page. If you want a call and it is not specified, then include it in the contract upfront along with anything else you're concerned about. I consider my editors to be an important part of my team. They help me turn my manuscripts into books that readers love and I rely on them as part of my business. This is a two-way relationship and you need to behave as professionally as the editor should. If you find an editor you love working with, pay them quickly and respect their time and you will hopefully have a long-term business relationship that benefits you both. How does it feel to go through an edit? It's probably going to hurt, especially in the beginning when your craft is in its early stages. You need fresh eyes on your work, especially at the beginning of your author career. You need feedback to improve. When I received notes back on my structural edit for my first novel, I didn't open the email for 10 days. I was so scared of what it would say because my novel meant so much to me. And yet, I knew it had problems. Of course, it did. It was my first novel. So, I let the email sit in my inbox until I was ready to face it. And like many things, the fear was worse than the actual event. Even many years and many books later, I still don't open emails from my editor until I am mentally ready to face criticism because that's what it feels like. It is not the editor's job to pat you on the back and say, "Well done. This is perfect. " Their job is to help you make it the best book it can be. They are experts and have honed their advice over many manuscripts so they can spot an issue a mile off. When you receive that email from your editor, particularly if it's your first book, make sure you are well rested and in a positive frame of mind. Set aside a good amount of time and read through the comments and the manuscript as a whole. If you have an emotional reaction, do not email back immediately. Let the feedback sit with you for a few

days, and you will find it easier to see what might need to change. Once you're ready, go through the manuscript and work through each change. Don't just click accept all on the track changes version for a line edit. This takes time, but it's well worth it because you will learn with every step, and you'll be able to spot your common issues in the future and hopefully fix them next time. You also need to examine every suggestion to see if you want to make the change. Do you need to make every change that an editor suggests? No, you don't. You are the author, so your creative vision is the most important thing. But try to get some distance and assess whether the change truly serves the book or if you're just having an emotional response. Remember what Jeffrey Diva said, the reader is God. Consider each editorial suggestion on its own merit. Does it help take the story in the direction you want it to? Will it improve the reader's experience? What if my editor wants me to change everything? Perhaps they are not the right editor for you. The editor should not fundamentally change your story or alter your creative vision. Their job is to help you shape your manuscript into a better version of itself and retain your voice and ideas while at the same time improving it for the reader. This is a skillful balancing act which is why experienced editors are so highly sought after. How long will the editing process take? This will depend on the type of writer you are in terms of the first draft. If you outline in great detail and spend time upfront making the first draft the best it can be, then editing might take less time than for a discovery writer who only figures out the book after the first draft. The more books you've written, the more you understand how to shape a novel, the more you can write a clean draft, so editing speeds up. That doesn't mean it gets easier to write a book, but it does mean you know how to find and fix issues. It will also depend on the length of the book. A 50,000word romance with one protagonist will be a faster edit than a 150,000word sprawling fantasy with multiple point of view characters. It will also depend on your experience. So don't compare your editing time to someone who has written a lot of books. Give editing the time it needs. You want your book to be the best it can be. But also remember Parkinson's law which I discussed in chapter 4. 7 on writing the first draft. Work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion. This law also applies to editing. Set your deadline and schedule your editing time accordingly. Don't book a professional editor until you've been through at least your self-editing process, as it may take longer than you think. How much does an editor cost? This will depend on the type of edit, your genre and word count, how experienced you are as a writer, and how much experience the editor has. Editors usually quote a range on their website, and you can also email and ask for a more detailed quote based on your manuscript length and sample. Every dollar I have spent on editing has been worth it as an investment in my writing craft and the quality of my finished novels. Although my requirements are different now, I continue to use editors and proofreaders for all my books. The more eyes on your novel before publication, the better it will be on launch. What if you have a tight budget? When I started out as a writer, I had a day job and I saved up for the editorial process. It was an investment in my craft and a possible future creative career. If you already have or intend to set up a business as a writer, then you can offset the cost of editors against any profits. But when you're starting out, you can't necessarily see that far ahead. If you're on a tight budget, then find or set up a writer's group with others in your genre and work through one another's manuscripts. You might also have other skills you can barter for editing services. But remember that bartering is subject to tax in many jurisdictions. So don't assume that it is free. What if my editor steals my ideas or my manuscript?

This is a common concern of new writers who think the editors might run away with their book and make millions with their idea. But don't worry, editors are professionals. They work within a contractual framework that protects both parties. So, make sure you are happy with the contract before you sign it. If you are really worried, you can register your copyright before you send the manuscript to anyone else. While it is not legally necessary to register copyright, it exists the moment the work is created. There are registration companies in every country that can provide peace of mind. Just search for copyright registration within your territory. Will I need different editors when I'm further along in my writing journey? Yes. As your craft and experience improves, you will likely work with different editors. You might also choose to use a new editor for a different genre or work with recommended professionals to take your craft to the next level. Questions: How will you find a professional editor and validate that they are the right one for you? How will you work with your editor so you are both happy with the process and the result? How can you prepare yourself mentally for receiving feedback and line edits? How can you reframe the experience as positive and learn for next time? 5. 4. Beta readers, specialist readers, and sensitivity readers. Professional editors approach your manuscript with a critical eye based on their knowledge of language, story structure, and genre. But sometimes it's a good idea to gain perspective from readers who are not experts on sentence structure or grammar, but comment on the story itself and their experience of reading it as a whole. Beta readers. Beta readers are a trusted group of people who evaluate your book from a reader's perspective before publication. The term comes from the software industry where early versions are tested in beta before being released to the public. While there are some paid beta reader services, many authors find people from their existing readership or from among genre fans in the writing community. Authors usually thank their beta readers in their acknowledgements. Specialist readers. Specialist readers are experts on a particular topic who read with their expertise in mind. This might be a police officer who checks a crime novel or a physicist who reads for a science fiction author. Sensitivity readers. Sensitivity readers check for cultural and diversity issues, lack of or cliched representation, and insensitive, inauthentic, or uninformed language characters or situations. This type of feedback can help an author before publication and can be particularly useful if you are tackling more controversial topics. It can also be valuable when reviewing older manuscripts if you want to republish a new edition as gendered language has changed as well as the need for representation, diversity, and inclusivity. While some criticize sensitivity reading as a step towards censorship, most authors want to make their books the best they can be and ensure the reader experience is excellent, whatever the genre. Being a fiction writer is also about empathy with our characters and with our readers. So improving our ability to write about diverse characters is important. However, authors cannot be experts on what it's like to experience every race or religion, every body type or disability or mental health issue, or understand every country or culture. Feedback from different kinds of readers can help us write better stories. And it is the author's choice whether to implement suggestions in the final manuscript. Do you need all these types of readers? No, you don't need any of them. Or you can choose to use some of them for different books depending on the need. It's up to you and your agent or publisher if you choose to go that route. At what stage in the editorial process should you use these types of readers? The book should be as close to the final version as possible. These people are

reading with fresh eyes. If they read again later, they can never approach the story with such an open mind. Most authors will send the manuscript to a select group of readers after the main editorial revisions, but before the proofread. Some authors with more developed careers even use their team of beta readers instead of editors at different stages of the process. What should you provide to readers? Provide the manuscript in the format the reader prefers. This could be an MSWord document or PDF. Many established authors use BookFunnel, which allows you to create a version that can be read on any reading device or phone. Specialist readers and sensitivity readers have their specific expertise, but for more general beta readers, you need to provide some direction as to what you expect. For example, did you skip over anything? Did anything bore you? Was anything confusing? Did you have to reread any parts? What did you like? Was there anything you hated or objected to or had a problem with? How long should you give them to read? Allow at least two weeks for readers to assess and provide feedback. Be clear on the timeline when you send them the book. Do you need to make all the changes they suggest? No. And if you try to, you will end up straying from your creative goal, messing up your author voice, and likely pleasing no one. Keep your number of early readers small and specific to what you want to achieve. Assess each comment and suggestion on its own merit and decide whether or not to make the change. Be confident in your creative vision and beware writing by committee which becomes a problem if you ask too many people for feedback. Only you can decide what you want for your novel questions. What kind of readers might be useful for your manuscript? Where will you find these readers? How do you hope to improve the manuscript from this feedback? How will you assess whether to make the changes? 5. 7 When is the book finished? I have not yet found words to truly convey the intensity of this remembered rapture. That moment of exquisite joy when necessary words come together and the work is complete, finished, ready to be read. Bell Hooks remembered rapture. You can edit a book forever if you want to. Every time you read it, you will find things to change. Every time you hire another editor, they will find more. If you work with beta readers, they will also offer opinions. Your novel will never be finished until you decide it is. Nothing is ever perfect. Even if you hire three separate editors and use multiple proof readers, you will still find a typo or an error in the published novel. Pick up any best-selling book from a traditional publisher, and you will still find an issue somewhere. It happens to everyone. Look at any prize-winning or bestselling book on Amazon and check the reviews. The more popular the book, the more issues people will find with it. There will never be a novel that satisfies everyone, and that's fine. Of course, you must make sure your book is the best it can be, but set boundaries for yourself so you do eventually finish. Have you self-edited your manuscript? Have you worked with a professional editor or at least worked through the manuscript with other writers to improve it? Have you used editing tools and or a proofreader? Have you set a deadline to move into the publishing process so you are not editing forever? If you have been through this rigorous editorial process and you still feel the itch to edit again, be honest with yourself. Is another round of changes really going to make a substantial difference to this book? Would it be better to work on the next novel instead of constantly reworking this one? Are you struggling with fear of judgment, fear of failure, procrastination, or other mindset issues that you need to work on instead of editing? Check out my book, The Successful Author Mindset, if you think this might be the case.

case. Strive for excellence. Do your best and then release your book out into the world. Set a limit on revisions. drafts. Set a time limit. The book will never be perfect. Christine Katherine Rush. The pursuit of perfection and how it harms writers. Questions. Have you followed an editorial process to make your book the best it can be within a specific time limit? If you're still struggling with the pursuit of perfection, what can you do to move past that? So, I hope you found the editing chapters useful and remember they were excerpted from how to write a novel from idea to book written by me, human narrated by me and you can get the book in all formats from my store creativepenbooks. com or on every other store or order from your local library or bookshop. Please leave a comment on the podcast show notes at the creativepen. com or on the YouTube channel or email me joanna@thecreatpen. com. And please send me pictures of where you're listening or your favorite cemetery or churchyard next Monday. I'm not sure what's happening, so it will be a surprise for us all. And in the meantime, happy writing and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening today. I hope you found it helpful. You can find the backlist episodes and show notes at the creativepen. com/mpodcast. And you can get your free author blueprint at thecreativepen. com/bloopprint. If you'd like to connect, you can find me on Facebook and X at the creative pen or on Instagram and Facebook @ JF Penauor. Happy writing and I'll see you next time.