New Instagram Tools to Drive Traffic, Optimize Your Content, and Establish Branding

This might be the biggest update in Instagram history. Clickable links in posts? It's probably the number one request that Instagram users have been asking for forever. People want it. They want to please people. But this also feels a little bit like a cash grab. Meta is trying to have as much capital as possible to invest in AI. Is part of this, do you think, just to get more people on Meta Verified? When I got verified, it was 14 or 15 bucks, right? Yeah. And now, if you look at their current tier pricing, it jumps from $14 or $15 right up to 50, and then 150, and then $500 a month. But is it safe to assume posts with clickable links will have reduced reach? That is the million-dollar question, right? Right. Will we ever find the answer to that? A few of Instagram's newest updates may not look huge on the surface, but together I think they're telling a much bigger story that we're going to get into today. The platform is becoming more linkable, more brandable, and more built around some of the native creation tools. So today, we're going to break down what that means for marketers, business owners, and anyone trying to build a real strategy on Instagram's rented land. We're super excited to be joined by Chelsea Peitz. Chelsea teaches sales professionals how to leverage social media and technology to build a powerful personal brand and develop content that generates real leads. She's host of the "Chelsea Peitz Podcast," and her most recent book is called "What to Post. " Today, Chelsea, Mike, and I are going to explore what these latest updates from Instagram and Meta mean for small business marketers and owners like you. Chelsea, welcome back to the show. Super excited to be here, as always. Thanks for having me, Jerry and Michael. Love to be here.

So, this might be the biggest update in Instagram history. Clickable links in posts on Instagram. So first, we've got to go back a little bit. In 2023, Adam Mosseri said that adding links to posts would move the app, quote, "Meaningfully away from being a visual platform," and towards links and publishers instead of the way it is for creators. But now Instagram is testing links in post captions for Meta Verified users. Now, this is only a paid benefit right now, and it's only some of them, so it's not official yet, and they're listing it right now where early tests mean you'll get 10 links per month in your post. So Chelsea, first, why do you think Instagram is all of a sudden going, "Okay, we'll try this out," because they've been so against it for so many years? There's a variety of things that we could look at. One, so many people have been asking. It's probably the number one request that Instagram users have been asking for forever. And this is the biggest change. One of the biggest changes. They finally have said, "Okay, we're going to give it a go. " So I think, one, a lot of people have been asking for it forever, and two, well, Instagram's part of Meta, and Meta is always looking for new revenue streams. There's a lot of things that they're building, a lot of projects that they're involved with, especially when it comes to AI. So adding this as a potential new revenue stream is something that makes a lot of sense and also could potentially make us, who are users, a little bit happier. But like you said, it's a little bit of a compromise. It's not like we're all going to get a bunch of links and be able to post them in all of our captions. You did mention it's limited to 10, and that could be something that's really interesting for people who are using those posts as a paid sponsorship or as a collaboration with a company because, hey, we only have 10 that we could use. So you could imagine that they could really monetize those 10 that they have if they're a really active, sought-after creator. I have a quick question on this. Creator is the key word to this whole thing, right? So what about people that have non-creator accounts? What do they call those, business accounts or whatever? Does that mean we're not going to get access to this feature? What's your thoughts on that? Yeah, I think this was really interesting, the wording that they chose, because the wording specifically was publishers and business. Now, I don't know what they mean by publishers, because there is no publisher account type. There's three different account types. There's personal, which is the basic. Then there's, in the professional category, there's business and there's creator. Once upon a time, there was an advantage in certain cases to be a creator account. Now they've, by and large, gotten very similar, and really the only complaint is, "Hey, I can't get the copyright-free music library if I'm in the business account. " So yes, they're leaning on, "Hey, you have to be a creator. " My question is, how are they going to prove that? make that happen? Because I believe you can still go in and just simply change a few things. I can go back from, I'm a creator account. I can go to a business from a business account to a creator account. And in addition to that, there are some loopholes for business accounts who still want to access some of the features like the music library, and it's by changing some of your categories. So I'm not sure how they're going to patrol that, per se, and I don't exactly know what they mean by publishers. How is that different than an actual business account? But yes, the goal here is, "Hey, we'd like for you to be a creator. We want you to be somebody who's actually making content, and that is your business, and you're in this creator category. " And so I think a lot of people probably won't even realize that, and they'll have a business account, and they just may think, "Oh, I just don't have it yet," when in reality, they need to be a different account that they should be able to go in on the back end and switch fairly easily. Jerry, do you think- Yeah... this is a play against YouTube? Do you kind of feel like they're... Because you know how you can have just links in the description in YouTube? Well, I think the publishers part is interesting because I think when they're using the word publishers here, I think they're talking about people who are sending people other places to see their published stuff. That seemed to be the differentiation, especially with Adam Mosseri's 2023 quote. I do think that in some ways they are potentially competing with YouTube. But remember, a couple years ago, YouTube took clickable links out of all YouTube Shorts. So they only live in the long-form space because they had too many people that were going viral with shorts and putting in unsafe links and things like that. So I want to ask Chelsea, you said, "Yeah, people want it. They want to please people," but this also feels a little bit like a cash grab. We know, and Mike can speak to this, that Meta is trying to have as much capital as possible to invest in AI. They're laying people off and all of these different things. So is part of this, do you think, just to get more people on Meta Verified? I don't think that they even have a stat. I've looked for it. I'm not sure if they have a stat on how many people are, in fact, Meta Verified. I actually, before this, just went into my phone because I was curious how long I'd been verified for, and mine was 2023, so it's been several years. And then I also forgot, wait a minute, now there's tiers. And when I got verified, it was 14 or 15 bucks, right? Yeah. And now, if you look at their current tier pricing, it jumps from $14 or $15 right up to $50, which I find very expensive. And then $150, and then $500 a month. Yeah. And so I don't know, is that 10 links they're going to give you, is that in the $49 a month? Maybe, because right now you get two links if you pay $49 per month. And there's very few things that $49 is giving you except for those two links. So yes, I do think that this is absolutely a revenue stream. I'd be interested to know how many people have gotten verified. And to be honest, I'm not paying to do any of the other things. I just got so tired of people impersonating me, stealing my content, and honestly, not having somebody that I can contact there at Meta to talk to. So that's the only reason I am verified, and I don't care about any of the other things. But I imagine that certain people would want to upgrade. But I think so, and I think those prices are pretty high. Well, and I just did a little Gemini research while we were chatting. Eight hundred plus million dollars in revenue just in Q4 of last year on Verified accounts. So that's a few. So we're talking more than a billion dollars a year are coming in off subscriptions to this thing. So it does make fiscal sense, right, for a company that's trying to grow. If you do the math on this, it's potentially multiple billions of dollars a year they're making off of these verified accounts. So why wouldn't they want to make it more attractive so people do not cancel the verified account? That's kind of what I'm thinking. Well, and that's something I see a lot, is where marketers or business owners will get Meta Verified because they need to talk to support, and then they don't use it for a couple of months, and it's like, "Okay, never mind. " I think a lot of us are over the blue check mark, but they get it while they need it, and then they cancel it. And there's no doubt that anyone who is trying to drive traffic somewhere, that 10 links a month, if you can get that for 15, for sure. But even for 50 bucks a month, that's a no-brainer. One click can be worth hundreds or thousands for the right brand, I think. Now, do you feel like maybe this is the feature that makes the value 100% clear to more marketers? Because like you mentioned, Chelsea, I only use it for basically one and a half features. Yeah. I think it's moving towards, hey, we originally had this security or safety tool, and now we're not just having it as a security or safety, we're creating a monetization avenue for more people. Because that has been something that Adam Mosseri has talked about as well, because they are competing with other platforms like YouTube and TikTok that are making it, in some ways, easier for creators who are on the platform to monetize their brands and their content. So there's always trying to keep up with the other platforms. But definitely think that it's trying to drive more of a frictionless experience. And certainly, for somebody who is making their living as a creator and has just small amount of links to be able to share, I can imagine that becoming a very quick add-on package to any of their already current packages that they have. And I think that also, too, with a limited amount of them, not 20, not 100, literally only get 10 an entire month, so a few a week if you wanted to space it out. That is definitely a way for some creators to be making more money. So yes, I think could certain people look at this as, "Yes, this is worth it. I'm ready to upgrade now because this piece of it is worth it. " For me, and probably for users like you, it's not worth it for me because I'm not using that particularly. But the other good news is, too, is now you have more tracking, right? So now we have, instead of a code, like, "Use code Jerry for X, Y, and Z," now you have a little bit more tracking, which I think would be good for the people who are going to be hiring these Instagram influencers or creators to then drop that link. Now, will people go to the link in the caption? Still we're depending on people to actually click on a link and go somewhere. Well, and that's- I just want to throw this out there. They test a lot of things. Mm-hmm. And Chelsea, what do you think the likelihood is that this is going to stick? Because that's the really big question, right? Because it's not available right now, right, Jerry? I mean, to the best of my- It's just available to this small testing group. But I got to tell you that 800 million a quarter number you mentioned makes me think there's a much higher likelihood of this moving forward. Yeah, I mean, Chelsea, your professional opinion, like there's a lot of things that they test. Do you think that they're just currently just trying to lure certain creators over to the platform and see if it works, or what's your thoughts? It's just an educated guess on my end, but the fact that they were so against it for so long and made it so known, and this probably has sort of been a thorn in their side for a while, it sounds like, or why wouldn't they have done it sooner? So to go from a place of, "We really don't want it to be this," to, "Okay, we're going to maybe compromise and look at it," I would be surprised if they rolled this out and then pulled it back, but it is very possible. And then if you're planning this and you change your strategy and you're going all in on this, then it can be something that people have to walk back, and it becomes frustrating. But it's very possible that they could walk it back because there's been a lot of things that they have tested. I would be more surprised if they end up walking this one back, because in my mind, it feels like a very big choice on their part, based on the history, to go and decide to do this. And I think they're testing it right now with creators to see, well, how feasible is it for us to make some financial revenue with this one, for sure. I agree, because if we look at Meta overall, on the Facebook side, they're testing links in Reels over there. They're testing the ability to link to things in Facebook Shop. And a lot of this is probably influenced by TikTok and everything that's happening there as well. But I think Meta has come a long way from the we're going to punish links forever. Now, that being said, in your years of experience on Instagram, I'm sure they would never admit to this, but is it safe to assume posts with clickable links will have reduced reach? That is the million-dollar question, right? Will we ever find the answer to that? Maybe if we've got some really amazing A/B tester who's running all of these research tests behind the scenes. But by and large, we probably will never know. If we look at what the goal of any social platform is, it's to keep people there. It's about duration, it's about watch time, it's about retention. So while they will likely never say, "By the way, if you use this and you're paying for it... " Now, that's the thing. If you're paying for it and you see your reach go down, I mean, are you able to correlate? If I were a creator and I'm paying and I'm increasing, I'm going to say, "Yep, give me the $50 a month thing," and I'm using it, but yet it seems like, I don't know, would I be able to prove that? correlate it? I'm not exactly sure. I probably wouldn't like that. But if we're going off of the goals of the platform, generally speaking, it's how long can we get people to stay? And sending people off of the platform may not be ideal. So therein, maybe they charge more because for them, it's like, well, if we send people off, we've got the money to kind of offset that. I'm sure they have a price per second of watch time on everything that is calculated into this, so maybe they're hedging their losses. Now, outside of sending somebody to your link in bio, previously, we have been able to share links in Instagram stories. Do you think if this catches on, people will stop posting stories as much? Because I do know some marketers and business owners that are only posting stories because they can move people forward in the funnel there. I personally, and the people that I just have talked to anecdotally about this, I personally sell the most in my stories. I rarely sell in the feed. So for me, it makes sense because people are already in this know you, trust you in this sort of intimate experience of just talking to you and not a bunch of other people that can see a comment thread, and they're getting to know you through your stories. I don't think this is going to impact people making less stories. Maybe it will sales-based stories. But if you're going to be selling, you might as well put it in both, right? Is what my thinking is. Because stories is so different, just behaviorally, psychologically, that is where people are going to connect. get to know you, which you might think, well, why would you sell in it, then? Because people are feeling a connection because they're seeing you, you're talking directly to them, you have this private messaging capability, and generally speaking, it's less edited, not scripted, all of those things. People generally tend to feel this parasocial relationship that is much closer and accelerates trust than something that's just in the feed. Therefore, people actually want to buy more from you. So it's kind of a weird oxymoron, but I don't think it's going to stop people from making stories. It might reduce people putting links in their stories or just maybe adding to in the feed. But stories and feed posts, I think, function very differently and should be used in tandem. All right, so Chelsea, tomorrow you get a notification, "Hey, you're part of this test group. You're in Meta Verified. You're going to get some links. " And I know you test things because you're an Instagram expert, but what do you think you're going to do in the first two weeks that you would have that feature? Well, I think that'd be really useful for obviously anybody that has a product, whether that's a download, a digital download, a book, a physical product, a course. So I would do a sales post, and I would put that in there, and I think it'd be easy to track directly from that. So I would personally use it to sell something that I have. Now, I could also use something that's free. So if I have a free download Instagram guide, I can easily do that. Now, I don't know if I would go back to... Maybe I'd go back to and edit an older post, if that's pinned, right? So if I have something that's pinned, I do have a pinned post that is start here. If you've got your courses, your information, you could certainly go back and have that so that it doesn't fall down the feed, and then if people are starting there. So I would personally use it for something that you already have, like a freebie and/or a paid product, or at least your course, to see if it's going to be working and driving. But it really doesn't just come down to the link in the caption. Your content needs to be attracting people in and your messaging and your hook. So just because we have a link in the caption doesn't mean that it's going to actually get a lot of traction. So we still have to have the element of the messaging and the content, and then remember to drive people to the link in the caption. And people are not used to it, so it might take them a while to turn on. I think they should have the link like they do in Reels, just right on it. That would be interesting to see if they do links in the carousel posts. I'm glad you brought up the pinned post, because that was my first thought was, let me get on Meta Verified, let me add some links to my pinned posts. Mm-hmm. Although, I would certainly wonder if they would become non-clickable if you canceled- Mm-hmm... your Meta Verified subscription, or they probably would for sure if this feature didn't catch on and it went away. Right. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So previously, we've sent people sometimes to Stories, but a lot of times you say, oh, link in bio, or we have one of these Linktree multi-link pages that pops up from our Instagram profile.

And now Instagram is expanding profile grid customization with basically the ability to edit post thumbnails directly within their profile layout. Now, this seems to be images only, at least when I tested it, not reels. But you can essentially click on it and open it up and change it really, really easily. I was surprised how easy it was to change those. But I got to wonder, how important is profile grid presentation as a brand asset now? Are we swinging back to 2015 here? Because this is one of those things where I didn't realize people were asking for this. Yeah. I don't have that many clients that I can think of that have actively been saying, "I wish we could go back to... Remember when we did like a whole face, and this square was this eye, and this was the middle? " And it was like you do these puzzles or these graphics made out of different posts. No. I think number one, we have to remember, very few people are ever looking at the profile. Now, when are they looking at the profile? When they're coming from perhaps a reel or a search, and they've landed on a piece of content, and they're interested, and they want to actually go to the profile. Now, if you are in a brand business where you are a lifestyle brand, you're a hotel, you're an artist brand, where your aesthetic matters, then perhaps there would be more of an impetus to actually care about this particular one. For some clients I have that are more personal brands, sometimes they didn't know that the importance of the thumbnail, and we all know thumbnails matter, whether it's on YouTube or anywhere else. And so some people want to go back and have a chance to let me just adjust that so that I can put something new in there, and I can make the thumbnail a little bit different. And that way when people come to my content library, they have a better feeling and perception and perceive what I do, what I talk about, and it's a little bit more clear. But I don't think we're going to go back to moving things around. Some people will. Personal preference for the aesthetic. Now, what I was interested in is, is this something that is just a swap-out or can I move it around on the picture? And you can picture. So some people may not even actually be swapping out anything, but maybe they want to just zoom in a little bit. If there's a person in it and they want to zoom in on it, so they can change that. I can tell you, I will probably never use it. Because people aren't really coming to your profile. It's like once they've decided to follow you, they're just waiting for that content to fall into the feed. Now, however, there are products, brands, that aesthetic matters more to what they're doing or what kind of customer they're looking for. Just so I'm clear, if this doesn't work on reels, what are you thumbnailing exactly? Are we talking about a carousel, or just zooming in on an image? Because if you take the reel out of it, what's there to thumbnail? Maybe I'm ignorant because I don't use Instagram that much, but Chelsea, what am I missing? Yeah. You can do a thumbnail on essentially anything. So if it's one single picture, if it's a carousel post with multiple pictures, if it's a reel. So even on the reels, what I do is I make sure that I center it. Sometimes my face is over a little bit, and I kind of want to center it so that it's in the middle of the little square, so that when somebody goes to your grid and they see all the little squares of your content, you can make sure that if you want to center it, make sure that the text isn't cut off. So you can do it on all of the above, pictures, carousels, reels, videos that aren't reels, if they even consider those anymore, longer form ones. So you can actually select either an upload, or you can go back and edit that and change it, zoom in, et cetera. But am I hearing this correctly? This is a special edit just for the grid, right? It's not a feed thumbnail edit, is that correct? That's correct. Well, it- So it's only if you care about your grid. But it doesn't apply to reels is what Jerry said. It applies to all the other content. Is that right, Jerry? Or did I get- Well, now I'm curious. Chelsea, have you gone back and used this new tool to change any of the thumbnails on your reels? So I haven't used this new version. I've been able to edit my thumbnails and upload a completely different cover photo on reels for a long time. I don't even know. Okay. Probably over a year. Yeah. That's the confusing part is that some of these things are meant for reels, feed posts. But yes, I have been able to upload different cover photos on my Instagram reels for well over a year, maybe even longer. I think what they're focused on now is when you have pictures or a carousel, you can go into your grid, and you can change those up, or you can zoom in, or you can move it over. So in my mind, it's got to be very similar to what I do when I'm picking my thumbnail in my reel. Because it shows me the grid layout, and then I can move it with my finger. I can zoom it in, I can move it over, and that's going to be essentially what it's like in the grid. So if you really have an aesthetic that you want to keep and you're excited about, and you love to go in there and switch it and change it, and you can also rearrange your grid now, which honestly I've not done either, and I don't plan to. But more a ways to control or change the aesthetic on your grid. So Mike, I'm glad you actually asked to clarify that because yes, when you upload a reel, you can upload a custom thumbnail just like you can on YouTube. But when I did this thing where you just edit directly from your profile, I wasn't able to do anything with any of the reels. But now I'm realizing it may be because I don't put custom thumbnails on my reels because, again, Instagram is not my primary platform, so it's not something I bother with. So maybe you can do that. It would be something worth testing. Now, Chelsea, you said that people don't go to your profile except when they first discover you. Right. Which is something that I've always kind of believed and coached and told people as well. Unless they're going to your link in bio, but otherwise why would they go back? But why would Instagram be giving more features like this if profile visits are not increasing? Do you think this could be a signal that profile visits are increasing? Possibly, but then what is the reason that profile visits are increasing? Is it because there's more creators with more profiles? Is it because they're pushing more out on the recommendation? I honestly think, in my opinion, it's that some people really like an aesthetic, and I think it's as simple as that. And maybe it's a certain segment of users, then they're in an age range. Maybe it's a style of industry. Some people really care because it brings them joy, and they like to curate, have it look a certain way. I totally understand that. It's like decorating your shelves. You might want to redecorate them every six months because it brings you joy. don't see any real benefit for Instagram, other than, "Hey, we're going to give you a couple fun things," and for those of you who really like it, maybe they have gotten a lot of feedback from users who are like, "We would just love to... " Now, rearranging the feed, the grid, I can totally see that. I could see that being much more like, "Hey, this is something fun and interesting," and if you want to put your finger down and move this one from way down here and rearrange it for fun, I totally could see that. This one, not as exciting. I think the rearranging would be more interesting and more likely that something that I might do than spend my time going through this. Unless they got a bunch of complaints that were like, "Hey, we really wish we could change our cover photos because I've been doing this for two years, and I never even thought to put a hook on it. something that described what my topic was on it," or what they should be looking for. So it's possible that they had that. But me, I'm thinking people just were excited about some aesthetic things. Or maybe it was just an easy thing for them to roll out and say, "Surprise, we have more things. " Jerry, one application here could be external sites that link to profiles. So for example, you go to your company website, and you want to check out the person's bios on the various social platforms. You know how normally they have little icons on the bottom of their website? Yep. Well, that's a reason why you might want to have that first impression coming from a blog or a company website where someone found you through AI, or they found you through Google Search and they want to check you out. That's where that first impression coming off platform onto the platform- Yeah... it might even be done on a laptop or a desktop. That might be something you do want to control, just because maybe they're discovering you off-platform. I don't know. What do you think, Chelsea? Yeah, I mean, that's very possible because you can direct people from anywhere. If you are, maybe Instagram is one of your primaries, but they found you on LinkedIn, or they found you through ChatGPT, or they found you through Google. So absolutely, I think there's ways to direct people from other platforms that they may have found, or maybe they have a podcast. And they're coming from the podcast and going right to their Instagram. So I think that's a good point that you bring up, especially if it's something that they're coming from one place, and they're wanting to review, to lurk with love, as I call it, and see what you're all about. And just to get that really quick snapshot, in a very quick millisecond, just glancing through. Now, one of the things that you can see in your Instagram insights is how many profile visits you get on a monthly basis, or the 28-day rolling or whatever. And so I would almost see if you had a brand that was getting thousands of profile views a month, you could even use this to potentially A/B test your content. Yes. Now, you'd need a heck of a spreadsheet or one of those... I guess AI could maybe help you with this. But that could totally be worth it. If you got 5,000, 10,000, 100,000 profile visits a month, that's a great way to get more eyes on your content by improving the thumbnail to make people want to click. And unlike on YouTube where you have a thumbnail and a title together, all you get is the thumbnail. So that, as you mentioned, Chelsea, that's an ability to go back and add a hook or any number of things that would be in text. Well, all of this customization is certainly fun for the people who like to tinker, but also can be great for branding as well.

And Instagram is rolling out some new sticker tools for custom branding. So you can upload your own stickers to Giphy, making them discoverable, usable by all Instagram users. They also have the cutouts and your stickers tools to create custom reusable stickers from personal photos, which again, a personal photo could be anything that was in your camera roll, for what they call a unique branded aesthetic. How valuable do you think it is for brands to create custom stickers that can be used not just for themselves, but by the broader Instagram audience? For certain brands, is this worth taking the time to figure out? I love the idea of a sticker, Jerry. You know I love the cutouts and stickers. I just don't use them. I really don't. I'm just a stories purist, right? And I'm just making the story. But I love the idea, and I've used it and it's fun. Now, this has been going on for years, the GIFs, right? Like, "Oh, how do I get my logo in there? " And I'm like, well, okay, but even if you went to Giphy and you uploaded it, and you figured out how to do it, because you have to go through that whole process in order to do it and to get it into Instagram, who's going to use your logo, right? So I think for brands that are creating something that is maybe, okay, we've got their logo, they could do that. I don't think very many people are going to use it unless you have some sort of event. You tell people about why. You have a contest, something like that. But if you're creating something that is more like a meme, something that's less about the company per se and more about the identity of the user, it's more likely that they're going to then potentially search and use those stickers. Other than that, I find people that have made so many company-specificAh, logos and stickers, and they find that really the employees use them, which is great. So it could be you know great for employee. Mm-hmm. But I think events could be really interesting because you could you know put them on your content, you can tell people, but again, you've got to tell people. So unless- Yeah... you're creating something that is very broad, like, ah, for somebody who loves, ah, I don't know, sparkling waters, right? It would have to be something about maybe sparkling water or that brand, or like me saying, "Oh, I love this brand and I can't wait to put this cute little icon. " But when I use an icon and a GIF, I don't want it to be like all overly branded. I just like to use the icon because I think it adds something to my story. So I think depending on what it is, ah, perhaps, but I think they'd have to do a little bit of work to get people to actually know about it and use it. Yeah, but if you did user-generated content, contests- Absolutely... things like that- Mm-hmm... this would be an opportunity- Yep... for that branding to come in. I will say several years ago, I do communicate with GIFs in text, in comments on- Yep... Facebook and- Right... places like that. And so I can tell you, you know TV shows and movies have been using this kind of thing- Mm... for years. You search for something, not even necessarily about the TV show or the movie, just something that says something, and at the bottom they have the name of the TV show or some of them, I think, some of the streaming services do them. I feel like I see Hulu and Netflix and things like that. Mm-hmm. So I think you could do stuff similar to that. I will say years ago, I just wanted to be able to reply to people with my own GIFs, and so I went through the whole process with Giphy. And I'll tell you, the trick if you're just trying to do this internally or for your team, is give it a keyword that nobody else will ever type in, even if it's just, you know, A... I'm just looking down at my keyboard, ASDFGHJ-... or something like that, because otherwise it's hard to get optimized for search. And if one of your staff or whatever is scrolling on their phone trying to find your thing and there's a million things, you'll never find them. So that was the one trick- Exactly... that I found. If you have a keyword that's a weird combination of letters, then that can work really well. It's a fun idea until you have to remember people have to find it. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I did some more research while you guys were talking, and I thought to myself, Facebook, they owned Giphy, but then they sold it. So they acquired Giphy in May of 2020 for, guess how much? Oh, that's right. Oh my God. $400 million. Okay? They sold it exactly three years later for $53 million to Shutterstock. Okay? Oof. Wow. And they still have an API agreement. But why do you think they bought it, and why did you think they sold it? And I want to ask you, Chelsea, do people really use GIFs much anymore in their Instagram stuff? Because honestly, the only reason I can imagine they would've bought this in the middle of COVID is because, for whatever reason, people were going nuts with GIFs, and then it faded out, and they took a quarter, more than a third of a billion dollar loss on the darn thing. I'm just curious what your take is on this. Yeah. You know what? I do think there was definitely an uptick because GIFs were hot for a while. We were excited to use them. We were using them. Jerry even made his own GIFs, like we all were in the business of trying to have fun with it. I am a Gen X-er, so, I am embarrassingly a user of GIFs, right? Because that's our generation, so it's probably my age. But yeah, I think probably it was perhaps something that they thought was going to be a bigger, longer lasting, boom that they were going to have, and people were excited. I remember three and four years ago, people were asking, "How do we get into Giphy? How do we make it? " And they would make it, and they would have all the challenges that Jerry had, and they're like, "Oh, but nobody's really using it. " Because Jerry, you even said you were using it, which is a fun novelty, right? For us to send our own GIF back. I- Yeah. Well, there was a time where I would be on group client calls, and I remember somebody, like I would say something and they'd be like, "That should be a GIF. You should make that a GIF. " You know? So you're right. It was everywhere. I didn't realize they had sold it at all- No, I didn't know that... let alone for such a loss. Yeah, they sold it literally three years after they bought it, which is kind of crazy. Wow. I remember being at a conference in Seattle, and they made this announcement about how Giphy had become the number three search engine in the world after Google- Mm... and YouTube at the time. So obviously there was that heyday there, but I don't know. I still use them. I don't make them anymore. But, yeah. It's interesting. We're in the same generation, Jerry, so that makes sense. Yeah. We're all Gen X's here, I guess then. Because I am too. Yeah. I'm probably the oldest Gen X-er. You're not a millennial? Okay. Yeah. We exchange GIFs. All right. So a lot of the stuff we're talking about, these updates are making it easier for us to customize, add branding, customize our profiles. All these things to make Instagram a stronger tool for us. But the thing that keeps kind of going through my mind is, well, at what point, are we too invested in rented land? And Chelsea and I have talked about this the last year or so.

This Instagram Edits app, they are making this way more than just a video editing app, and I think you told me last time we talked, Chelsea, are you editing all of your stuff in the Instagram Edits app now? I am. Okay. So let's talk through some of these features that they've added. One is, in the Instagram Edits app, you can create templates, and now you can share them pretty much with anybody, and it can include trending formats and music, which I got to think would be amazing for trying to get your users to make user-generated content. What's your reaction to that? Okay, this is a perfect use case to ask me because I never use templates. But my husband, who doesn't know anything about Instagram and doesn't want to listen to any of my tips, uses templates to make Reels. So what's happened is that, yes, the person who doesn't really know how to edit is now going to have the ability to just pop in a template. And so it sort of ups the baseline, also reduces that learning curve. But it also, I just wonder, I got used to seeing so many things from CapCut, where I'd be like, "Oh, that's a CapCut. That's a CapCut template," right? Because now you can't tell because there's so many. But in the beginning, I was like, "Oh, that's from CapCut. Oh, that's a CapCut thing. " So while it does help people start making content, like my husband, who doesn't really desire to learn how to do the edits, nor he tries and 12 hours later he's screaming in the other room. It empowers him to be able to make something and make something fairly quick. So I still think ultimately the people who aren't going to be using the templates, and yeah, use templates, every now and then if you want to do that. But the people who are literally talking to the camera and connecting with their audience, I still think are going to be the winners at the end of the day. And I don't think that we're going to see cinematic content disappear either. I love watching that beautiful, cinematic, highly edited content. And I also like watching people sitting in their parked car with bad lighting, giving me a story time, and I'm ready for part two. So, I think that it's helpful, and I do think that we're going to see a lot more similarities in people's content, and therefore, the people that aren't using it are going to be standing out. Yeah. If anyone listening ends up using this for user-generated content, I'd love to know, because you talk about how do you get them to use your logo? Well, you build it into the template, right? Yeah. Take our template, drop in you using our product or service, and publish it with hashtag whatever for a chance to win, which I think is neat. All right, some other features that are here, I just want to make sure that everybody knows about these. A couple of teleprompter features. One, where you can actually put your script in, and it'll actually show it near the top of the screen, like your camera. And then another one, which I haven't seen, I guess it would be the same as a normal teleprompter usually, but I haven't seen it anywhere else that I can think of, is a voice-over teleprompter, where it will display scripts on screen while you're recording the voice-overs so that you can get everything done in one take. Do you see people using this? I have personally tried to use the teleprompter, and I need more practice. It's very hard for me to read from a teleprompter and still create the content in a way that I feel feels more authentic, and so it's challenging for me. What I do like about it is that you can make the text big, but now I'm at the point where it's like I've got one word on the screen, so that's not really very helpful as I'm trying to get through a sentence. But you can change the text size, and speed, which is great. So I think for certain people with some practice, it's going to be amazing. I'm super excited about the voice-over one, though, because now you don't have to look at the camera while you're actually voice recording it. And oftentimes when I am doing a voiceover, I do have something that I'm either reading or that I'm looking at. Mm. So I think that would be super helpful so that you can just get that done right then and there, and you don't have to go back like I'm doing, make the video, and then do the voiceover. And also what I would have trouble with is how long in the particular sentence, because I would have to talk really fast to make sure- Mm-hmm... that it was before the next scene or time it. So it took me a couple of takes doing the voiceover to get it to go with whatever I was trying to do in the scenes. So I am excited about that. I have tried the teleprompter. It is very similar to all the other teleprompter apps, so if you're used to using that, I don't think you'd have a problem using this one at all. Got it. Yeah. I have a question about this voiceover thing. Have you tried it? How does it work? Does it just play back the video and then you're just watching the video while you're talking? Yes. That could be actually a little bit distracting. I kind of feel like I'd be safer off just narrating, reading it from a script, using my beautiful podcast equipment like we all have right here, and then having the video be edited to kind of go with my voice. Wouldn't that be easier? Or are you saying most people aren't that technical and this is a great solution for them? I'm just curious what you think. I do like the voiceover. I personally, and I thought it was only me, Mike, so maybe you're letting me know I'm not alone. I would get so stressed because I'm watching the video go and the timer, and I'm trying, and I'm getting faster and faster, and then I'm like, "Dang it, I missed it. I'm just going to have to restart and do the whole thing over again. " So I find it stressful to watch my video and also watch the little timer going by as I'm trying to get out what I'm saying. And then I have to end up editing what I've written because I'm like, "Ugh, this is too long. " But I wouldn't know it's too long until I actually test it out. So voiceover for me can feel time-consuming because I have to test it a little bit and then tweak it. But I do love the voiceover feature. I do think it's really cool for folks who are honestly not super ready or excited to talk to the camera. It's a way to infuse your personal brand and your humanity into the content, and also really cool storytelling, especially if you're more of a cinematic filmer, where you can actually feel like you're still in the content without actually physically being in it. So I always have people that are really nervous on camera. I always have them start with B-roll with either text over it, and then I will have them do B-roll, maybe with them in it, but they're adding their voice. So I love the tool. I just get stressed when I try to do it. Will it allow you to start with an audio file and then add the B-roll over the top of it? Because in an ideal world, I've done cinematic stuff, less short-form video, more professional cinematic stuff- Mm-hmm... where I've recorded a script and I've hired a composer and all the music and all that stuff, crazy stuff, right? And then the editor goes in and does the magic over the top of all of it, right? Because it's almost like the visuals are really just there to support the audio. Mm-hmm. Is it possible with this voiceover feature that you could start with an audio fileAnd then add the B-roll to it later, or is it not really how it works right now? No, you'd have to have the video. You upload the video first, and then you can import a file, a sound and audio file. So if you had a one-minute video and you already had another minute audio that you had done somewhere else, you could just throw it up into that. But I think most people, most users, are likely not going to have an audio file they've already created. You could easily just take a clip from a podcast, too, I would imagine, and upload it into that. But yeah, the way that it works right now is you start with either the image or the video, and then you build on top of that. Got it. Yeah. Oh, and quick fix for that, Mike. You could just record a video, but even have your phone lens sitting on the desk so it was all black, and just voice it that way and then... Because you'd be adding something on top of it anyway. Oh, and then- Yeah, you could... if you've got a blank video- Mm-hmm... you could still add it with this app. You could add little clips over it that could be the B-roll, and the whole thing could be B-roll as effectively. Mm-hmm. Say, "Okay, well, that's good. That's a good workaround. " Yeah, or an overlay. You could make it an overlay and just make sure it takes up the whole screen. So yeah, you could do that. I didn't think about that, Jerry. You could record, I guess, just with nothing, and then add that on top. Yeah. And one more feature, too, to go full circle, is in the Edits app, they're letting you actually link things in your Reels where you can link specifically to profiles or other Reels- Mm-hmm... including your own, I believe. So there's a lot of great features, no doubt about it, and it's great that they're letting us ideate, and script, and use a teleprompter, and edit, and all the other things that we've talked about. Do you think that as marketers and business owners, we talked earlier, what if the link feature doesn't make it? Do you feel like there's risk going all in on this? Or do you feel like if this is the best workflow for somebody who likes working on their phone, then you love where this is going, and it'd be well worth investing the time? Yeah, I think it's always a good reminder, too, to remember the potential drawbacks, right? And I'm talking to myself, too, as somebody who exclusively edits inside of Edits app. One, I just recently saw a big creator that I follow say, "I've made four drafts, and I don't know where they went. They just disappeared, so I'm going to have to remake all these things. " And they remade them. But that's possible. Glitches happen. So make sure you're trying to save your content somewhere else, too. Additionally, what if somebody is on your team, or they're used to making the edits, and they get locked out? Or something happens, and maybe they're not paying the $49. 99 and can't get in. Which, by the way, even if you are a paid member like I am, you have to be able to access your account to access- To contact them... the inbox, which it blows my mind. Yeah. So, there are things that could happen. So, absolutely, I'm sure any professional video creator will tell all of their clients, "Hey, probably not a good idea to store all the things in the socials, in the drafts. Probably want to keep those elsewhere. " And also want to make sure that you have everything security-wise turned on, two-factor everything, because weird things happen, and you might get locked out. And if you're on a regular posting schedule and you have your 25 drafts sitting in Edits and you can't even get in, if you haven't scheduled them out to post, then there's going to be a problem. So maybe the answer is schedule everything that's in drafts too because just in case you can't get in. Yeah. Well, Chelsea, this has been a really interesting conversation. Thank you for joining us today. If people want to explore working with you, where do you want to send them? Surprise, you can find me on Instagram. It's just my name, @chelsea. peitz. It's P-E-I-T-Z. Chelsea and Jerry, thank you so much for being on the show today. And hey, if you missed anything, we took all the notes for you over at socialmediaexaminer. com/716. Yes, 716 episodes. It's a lot of weeks. Hey, if you're new to the show, be sure to follow us. If you've been a listener for a little while, we would love a review on whatever platform you're listening on. And do check out the other show, the "AI Explored Podcast," where we unravel all the mysteries of AI. This brings us to the end of the "Social Media Marketing Podcast. " I'm your host, Michael Stelzner, and I'm joined today by my cohost, Jerry Potter. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day, and may your marketing keep evolving. Catch you next time. Okay.