Replay: AI Is a Teammate, Not a Search Engine — with Glen Cathey

Hi and welcome back to Hiring Excellence. I'm Johnny Campbell. While my team and I are in the studio putting the final touches on our upcoming new season, we're diving back into the archives to bring you some of our absolute best, most impactful conversations. And today's replay is a heavy hitter. If you've been trying to figure out what it really takes to move past the hype and make AI work for you as a recruiter, you need to hear this one. We're revisiting my sitdown from 2025 with the brilliant Clen Cathy, SVP of talent advisory at Ronstad Enterprise. In this episode, Glenn unpacks the seismic impact AI is having and will continue to have on sourcing, persuasion, and our everyday productivity. What I love about Glenn's approach is that it never is just a theory. Not with Glenn. We get into the weeds. We talk about his wild Reddit experiments and he introduces a framework that completely changed how I look at this technology. The idea of managing AI like a teammate rather than just using it like a search engine. The bold insights and practical tips Glenn shares in this episode were ahead of the curve when we recorded it and they will absolutely change how you think about your work today and well beyond. We'll be back in your feed very soon with brand new episodes. But for now, get ready to take some serious notes. Here's my conversation with Glen Kathy. — Glenn, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. A real back on the show. I think this could be your third time back. You might be the first person to do your third podcast on Talent Hiring Excellence. Um, so where are you today? Tell me what's going on in your world. What's top of mind before we dig into this topic? And maybe you might just refresh our audience's memory of your background, your experience, and for those maybe are brand new to the podcast, tell us a little bit about you, your history, Ron Stard, what you do there as well. — Yeah, so I'll do the whistle stop tour as they say. Um, so I've been in recruiting and I stumbled into it like most people, so I love that usually resonates with people. I stumbled into recruiting. I had no idea what it was. Uh, small staffing company in Northern Virginia. I kind of figured out things. I almost quit in the first three months, but then I really got good at figuring out how to leverage the database and I got good at figuring out the psychology of sourcing and recruitment. And then I got promoted into leadership and along the way I bounced between two main companies at KF Force and Bronstad. twice boomeranged and then uh led really large centralized sourcing recruiting teams, built sourcing centers and then moved more into strategic role around uh digital strategy and how we leverage you know tools and technology and of course now AI to enable sourcing and recruitment and that's where I'm at today in the advisory group helping uh both internal groups within Ronad as well as customers externally on their journey to maximizing the full potential of AI. So Glenn, the easy question for me to ask knowing your background, your history, what made you so famous would be to ask you, is sourcing dead with AI? But I'm going to go one bigger. Are jobs dead with AI, Glenn? Like what do we have a future as humans? Like this phrase we've heard, oh don't worry, AI is not going to take your job. Just someone who knows how to use AI is going to take your job. What are your thoughts midway through 2025, several years into this experiment? Well, there well, first off, I love the questions. Um, I would say sourcing is not dead. Jobs, some jobs are being replaced. You've probably seen that in the headlines. Um, although some of those companies have bounced back like CLA is one of the examples. [snorts] Um, there are elements of sourcing that have been automated by some solutions, but I'm finding that companies are a little slow to adopt them. Um, and not just due to regulations. Some companies are just being very thoughtful about their strategic approach to sourcing and recruitment and the level of human involvement that they want even outside of regulatory constraints. Although the technology is already there. I've seen it where you can fully automate outbound sourcing. I will say however that it's similar to um I would say full like autonomous driving although technically it exists. It exists in very controlled situations and we've found the limits that do exist today. There are times when you know autopilot so to speak for sourcing can't find and engage people. it can't find enough of the right people. So, I feel like we're definitely still in a place where there are humans that are going to be needed when the autopilot, so to speak, is unable to produce the desired results and the time necessary. But I do feel that as years progress, the amount of

scenarios where AI won't be able to perform will be reduced. Very similar to full self-driving. I know we're not there yet. Although in like Whimo in certain situations which I've ridden in which is bizarre but also wonderful experience. Uh those still run into corner cases where you still have to flip off autopilot and have a human take over. — So I feel like sourcing is not dead as a role. It's shrinking and AI is definitely threatening that. But I don't think people should be looking at that necessarily as a negative thing. I know that sounds strange. Um the reality is people can be angry about like uh machinery and robotics that have come about over past decades in industrial revolution. It's transformed the work and when people are displaced and disrupted, it is very disturbing and u it was negative to be on the one side of that. But it's incumbent on those individuals that see the displacement coming, the transformation coming to figure out, okay, I see it coming. I'm going to be not a victim. I'm actually going to chart my own course to try to stay ahead of it so I can figure out what does this mean in the new world of work. Now the second part of your question um yes it's a little bit of a trit phrase to say that um you know AI won't take your job only a person using AI. That's actually not true and I don't say that to be alarmist. I feel that as humans we almost have a duty to be preservationist to ourselves and we want to think that we can't be replaced. I will say early in my journey and I think it's important to share this that when I first got my hands on chat tpt one of the first things that I experimented with was of course like writing searches and I'm like it does a pretty good job of that. Um not as good as me in some cases and that wasn't me just being you know critical. It was like legit there's certain things that he's just not doing yet. But I realized that if I prompted it properly, it could replicate my thinking. So that was actually the limitation wasn't the tech. It was actually me. And then the second part I want to share is the human element. When I started to try to figure out, can it write messaging as persuasive um as myself? Like if I'm trying to reach out to a person that would normally not respond to another source or recruiter, can it do as good a job as me? And I'm here to tell you that it can do as good a job as me. I think as good as the best people and consistently. And I don't on the one hand I think that's scary. On the other actually great. Not everybody is fantastic at writing really engaging and persuasive outreach messages. Uh certainly not consistently. And so is that necessarily a bad thing to say well maybe I do want the to do that because it does it consistently better than me and then I can focus on other elements of the process where maybe I actually am adding more incremental value than AI now. But as we move into the future, uh there is definitely no doubt that companies and capitalism will drive some job displacement. It's difficult to predict how much, but um AI is definitely going to continually progressively take over more and more tasks as it is advancing in its capabilities faster than humans can. You recently posted on LinkedIn about a piece of university research that looked at AI's ability to persuade um individuals based on activity on Reddit. I wonder can you maybe expand on that or share with our audience what the research was, what the outcome was. I know there was ethical issues perhaps around how they obtained this information or conducted this but let's focus on maybe the the learnings because I think it's quite exceptional and maybe comes back to your comment about engaging in messaging candidates and which a lot of people may disagree with right now think oh no Glenn no humans need to do that they're better at it what is the data say — that's fantastic yeah so the University of Zurich ran an experiment uh within uh a subreddit it was and which is focused around persuading people like a change my mind type of scenario. And the challenge with the experiment was that they didn't alert people that they were doing it. So people thought they were dealing with people, which you know, some people say could be unethical. But I actually feel like it was better that way, at least from a learning perspective, because they found that the AI was three to six times more persuasive than the most persuasive people, like 99%. So I when it comes to sourcing and recruiting and you talk about this persuasion of getting someone to respond, getting someone to be, you know, who was not previously looking to potentially consider making a change and, you know, I know we focus on sourcing and recruiting, but I've seen other people in forums online talk about how sales is going to fundamentally change because the reality is AI is already a multiplier more persuasive than people and it will be consistent. ely good and it will only actually get better which is interesting right because a sourcing recruiting and you know I actually had a discovery reading

an article a long time ago how recruiting is the same as the sales process which it is um it's that if AI can work on the understanding someone's situation the mindset of the individual that you're sourcing recruiting and can adapt and come up with the appropriate messaging that will be the most effective at getting that person to consider making a change. Um I it's just it's again I smile when I say it because on one hand it's a little scary but it's also exciting. Um I don't know if everyone really enjoys that element of their job. You know I geek out over writing really good messages but I've trained tons of teams. And I'd say 80% admit that like hey I'm just not that creative. Like I don't really like writing the messages. I see that if I was better at them, I would be more effective in my job because conversion, — you know, just getting a response is the win. And that's the biggest lever. You know, if somebody gets a 50% response rate versus somebody who gets a 20% response rate, that person doesn't have to do as much work to get the same output. Um, so messaging is everything. So if we already have AI that is and in the university study on Reddit, it got people to change their minds, uh, like literally change their minds. And what's interesting about the psychology of changing your mind is that the reality is it's very difficult to get someone to change their mind because when you challenge people on their current mindset and their feelings and thinking about something studies have shown that people dig in. They typically just resist. So getting someone to literally change their mind in recruiting sourcing recruiting it's I don't know if it's really changing their mind. Most times it's being open-minded because people are just resistant. um wasn't thinking about making a change or maybe I'm not really crazy about working with recruiters because I've had bad experiences in the past. These are all things that could be today if you're using it properly more effective than I'd even say 99% of people which again some people might take offense to that but if unless you're using it and trying it you don't know. So I want people to actually not speak from a perspective of just opinion. You can't have an uninformed opinion. you have to be working with the technologies to push it to the edge and see what it's capable of. But the fact that you brought up that study, the world is changing for sourcing and recruiting and sales when it comes to persuasion and getting people to, you know, change their mindset, change their behavior. That's a huge part of recruiting. — I listened to a fascinating interview between Uval Noah Harrari and Reed Hoffman this week. and Reed Hoffman obviously founder of LinkedIn. Van Noah Harari uh one the writer of three to four big books um that one of which was the is I think the biggest non-fiction bestseller of the last 50 years uh which is uh sapiens uh phenomenal book and he's a professor of history in the university of Jerusalem and um I believe university Jerusalem and he's fabous thinker u brilliant mind on this and he was being asked by Reed Hoffman about technology over the decades because over the eons as um you know he likes to talk in thousands of years rather than months like the rest of us. And he was asked about the technology of writing which many believe was a fundamental you know step forward for humans and this technology in Samrian writing in scratchings in clay thousands of years ago helped develop our education and everything else. and he was asked whether AI is a more important or less important um a technology and he without hesitation said oh more important and he said you know the context he gave was he said writing as a skill of humans that we developed 4,000 years ago however number thousands of years ago you know as part of our story he said we may have just created the first synthetic um uh organism or are life on earth and in the grand scheme of things there'll be there was humans there was AI and the footnote of writing in the human story will be forgotten for the invention of the synthetic life and this was his point potentially I think you know without getting into a profound conversation on what is the impact of AI go back to your point around the University of Zurich we're so we're seeing every day you know huge leaps forward by month in terms of the models how much better they're getting and how it's proving itself in many different ways. I think you know whilst many might disagree with the concept that you know this is the first the beginnings of synthetic life and maybe the end of the human age that might be going too far or even that it's more impressive than writing as a technology but it's hard to ignore its impact daytoday you know on

so many things so that most of us want to be able to use it more and we started this journey three four years ago again I say we you know society uh using the internet with early days of chat EPT when we were being told we have to learn how to prompt and you know I know you're avid user of AI um I like to think myself I've become an avid user of AI my AI usage keeps going up although my it annoys my wife because I'm constantly talking to chatbt I think I talk to chat more than I talk to my wife I do mean talk um for everything I find it fantastic but you shared an insight with me that I think is quite profound and really important for anyone who does want to maximize their use of AI. Uh and it's a way of thinking about um you know what is AI and what skills you need and it came I believe from something that Ethan Mollik put out. Would you mind sharing that with those maybe explaining that context to us? — Yeah, definitely. So I think it at least for me when I made a connection was when I read a LinkedIn post by Ethan Malik who's the author of co-intelligence and he is a um a fast a fantastic blog and he's prolific on LinkedIn as well. So if you don't follow him I recommend you following you follow him soon. Um people have asked him about what are quote unquote AI skills and what he said in this post was um the best that he can tell is at this time that AI skills are actually the same as the skills of being a good manager and that's you know identifying problems that need to be solved de decomposing those problems deconstructing them and then turning them into you know segments of work that you can delegate to someone or in this case with AI delegating the task to AI and then being very specific around the instructions in terms of what you're expecting maybe even sharing some examples of what good looks like and then when the work is produced reviewing the work critically providing feedback for any revisions that's really what managers do when they manage people or supervise them doing work and that actually then triggered me to remember an article on Harvard Business Review that I read years before in 2023 where someone was basically saying this whole prompt engineering thing is a fad. It's really about problem decomposition and I didn't do much with I read it and I was I actually read it twice because I'm like what is this person talking about? Uh then I connected that with what Ethan said and there's someone else I forget who on Twitter or X that said something similar and I said okay that totally makes sense. I think that actually is the proper way to think about how you work with AI. It's not just about writing the prompt. There's so much more than just writing the prompt. You know, what are we trying to do? What context can I provide to the AI to help it do a better job? Um, and also, if you're managing a person and you're delegating a task, you will often tell that person or ask the person, so do you have any questions? Right? And that's something that you can do in your prompting as well that people often don't do is that if you don't think of it like a person, which sounds silly to some, but I when I train anyone, I say that it's really helpful to have the right the mindset that it is like a person because then you think about how you communicate with it differently because it's not just entering a prompt. You're trying to give it the context to do a good job for you and you can say and you know, ask me a few questions like one at a time that will help you do the best job for me. No different than if someone just came to my desk today and said, "Hey, I'm here as an infinite resource. I want to do some work for you. " You know, great, I'll tell it what something to do. But then I said, "Do you have any questions? " And it probably does have questions. So then the next mental leap for me was like, "Ah, it's so interesting that if AI skills are really the skills of being a good manager, but most people performing work are not managers. They don't have any experience managing. training managing or leading. they're mostly individual contributors. And so I feel like there's I think there's a challenge around generative AI because it understands our natural language whether we're typing it or speaking it that there is some unspoken assumption that we're all just going to be good at working with it because it understands us and we just should be able to tell it what it needs to do. The reality is people have been managing people for thousands of years and we still haven't perfected managing people. So I don't think we'll ever actually there will never be a point at which we're like oh we've solved working with AI um you know working with it as a collaborative tool or even you know managing agents in the future and that's something that links to some recent uh Microsoft research where you know they talked about everyone in the future is going to be an agent boss but then again I said how can everyone be an agent boss if no one's ever been a boss and we haven't trained them or upskilled them to be a boss or a manager of any

resource whether it's human or inhuman. And so that's something that I've been thinking about a lot lately in terms of how do I do a better job and educating people and upskilling them in the right way of thinking about working with AI today and tomorrow. It is the it actually is managerial skills. And so you can teach people prompt engineering and they can get good at really they can get really good at prompting AI. I would argue there most of those people are not getting maximum value or the highest quality output from AI because they're not thinking about it properly. they're not approaching it in the way that you really are managing a resource that's going to do work for you. — I wonder Glenn, have you tried using AI to solve some of those problems? So, for example, your point around decomposition from the HP article a couple of years ago. Um, have you gone to an AI chatbot tool with a problem and asked it to decompose it in a way that you can then break down the tasks and better think of it? Or have you relied on your own skills at decomposition of a challenge or an issue? I'd say mostly it's me decomposing problems. Um, although I have one thing that I find, and this is just like I guess the geek in me, I'm really enjoying figuring out how to create prompts that are universal. And what I mean by that is instead of you giving all the specifics to the AI, you give a set of instructions to the AI, whether it's a GPT or it's Gemini, a gem, where it asks you questions and pulls the context out so that you don't have to sit there and just cook up all your context and then give it to the AI. Um, and I have experimented with AI helping me think through that process of how can I create something that's more universal that instead of having like very specific scenarios like a roleplay scenario um is a really good example because you can set up specific role plays or you can say we're going to have a um difficult conversation role play but I want to make it universal. So, I have to create the prompt in a way that it's going to elicit information um out of people. But I'll say some of that has to start with the concept of the person saying I know the in this case and that's kind of funny. I didn't even prepare for that. — I had to first come up with what is the problem I'm trying to solve. I want to create a universal, — you know, and I've done that in a few cases, but I have to give credit to one of my co-workers, Haley Cochroft. created a universal difficult conversation role player that was absolutely brilliant that I was like that's a really interesting way to look at it. Um so I think it is a combination of person plus AI and it sounds cliche but I honestly believe it we're better together. Using AI can help you exceed your human potential. Some people talk about maximizing it. I actually think you're able to exceed what you can do by yourself by using AI as long as you're thinking about it properly. It's not just an assistant. It's not something you just relegate to the boring, tedious, repetitive tasks, which I see a lot written about online, but I feel that's the human preservationist angle. It's that let's give it the boring stuff that I don't want to do. Reality is it can do really high level strategic work. Um, and I feel like people need to lean more into that other end of the spectrum of capabilities, which includes what you just mentioned, which is help me think this through. Like, how can I approach this? Am I thinking about this properly? And I don't feel like enough people are using AI as a sounding board, as a second opinion, as a peer level, or even above you. And just going back to the previous point about managing, my latest thought is what are the challenges associated with managing a resource that's smarter and more capable than you? It has more knowledge than any person. Um, it can pull conventional wisdom out of deep and broad knowledge base because of how they've been trained. Um, and most people don't manage resources like that. There is no human resource like that. So, it's more capable of you in a narrow band and also in a broad band and in a weird way. And I'll just say one little mind-bending thing. Yes, I know that we want to feel comfortable in the future that we'll be managing agents, but it is not far-fetched that there will be agents uh managing agents and maybe even agents managing people. And it may be a more effective manager of people than people, even though that might be disturbing to some people. Um, I'd love to have that debate because I I'd put my money on AI in this case, at least from my direct experience, even with today's capabilities, let alone how crazy they will be next year and the year after that. your point about the use cases of AI and how people are using it for the Mino tasks um when maybe there's more opportunity is interesting. I I kind of experimented with this when it comes to the modality of the likes of ChachiPT or Gemini. Um, I have

uh most Fridays I have a I have to leave my office and I get to go to a meeting with my peers and it's about a 30 40 minute drive and so I've started using chatpt on voice mode in the car and we have a conversation for 40 minutes and usually I'm going to that meeting to solve a problem. So I'll begin fleshing out the problem and asking for scenarios, options. I'll give it feedback notes, try again, go back, you know, give me more, expand on that idea, go back to this. And I have found in the last couple of months doing this, I have come up with, you know, I haven't come up with it. I've prompted the AI to help me develop brilliant scenarios and ideas and solve the problems rather than going to the meeting to then uh flesh it out. I I'm going to the meeting with suggestions that I've worked out in the car with chat GPT and when I arrive I you know park the car open my phone and then go back in and say okay all that discussion produce a PDF or a summary or visual or whatever it might be — and just that modality when you move away from phone do my work to we're both in the car you know whatever together we're having a conversation for 40 minutes — you know changes your way of thinking I think Glenn and I loved your examples of you know using chatbt to solve the problems on GPT. I built a GPT that had those prompt questions. I call it Stella. Um it's a prototype for something we're building internally on social talent, but it's to help um a recruiter or hiring manager um design a hiring process for a role. And like you say, it's got a whole bunch of questions that it asks you. So it's not, you know, it basically asks it starts with what's your job and then it has a bunch of questions that it asks you and it design helps you design this. But in designing it because I've written a few GPTs in the past, I started with I want to write a GPT for this. Can you build first of all the instructions to write a GPT in a way that will work most effectively and then I'll tweak it. So it laid out a template for writing a GPT and then I tweaked it and then I put that in and built a GPT with that. So your point being push your mind to think a little bit more and I agree there's huge power in the questioning piece. I haven't done what you've said there where I've said ask me any more questions you might need for to get a give me a better answer or to come up with a better solution. It's a brilliant tip on that Glenn like again I love these conversations with you. I love the way your brain thinks. You're very well read and I think you have the lateral thinking across a broad range of topics that makes you ideal for leveraging AI. But I got to move into some tips because we're going to run out of time. You know, for those who are let me pick two different types of of listener. a listener who's reasonably new to this. When I say reasonably new, they're using AI maybe once or twice a day, maybe five times a week. They're not using it more than three, four times a day. Let's call that 15, 20 times a week. Let's call that a newbie. And then we've got someone who's 10 times a day at the moment using AI in their work and in their personal life. Let's take the first persona newer to AI. What would your top t top tips to be to that person who's only starting out now? How can I they accelerate their learning? What would you recommend to further them on their journey? — [sighs] — I think my first recommendation would be to think about the AI that they're working with as if it is a person as someone that has and I think it's important for it to people to remember why it is so capable. It's easy to forget about how it was trained, what its knowledge base, what it's understanding the world is, how smart it is, how human it is. And I think that when you think of it like one of the world's most knowledgeable humans, you think of it differently in terms of how even what you would ask of it. So, I know and I usually make this joke that yes, you can use it to help you write emails and things like that or review and summarize documents, but if you had a genius level individual that had the broadest knowledge, but also the deepest knowledge in the world, that's not the highest best use. So, what else would you ask a person of that capability? But if you think of it like a person, it's different than just a little prompt bar where you're, you know, I think that's also the challenge for new people is when you have something that is so capable of so many things, the challenge is no longer the technology. The challenge is your imagination. And as a fun little, it seems like a minor exercise, but for that newbie individual you mentioned, um, an interesting exercise can be asking whatever AI they tend to work with on a regular basis, explain who you are, provide some context to the AI, and then say, I'm trying to understand all of the

best use cases that I could benefit from working with you. Just basically, you're asking it here's who I am. Provide some context and say, what are all the things that you can help me do? And when you get the first set of response and you'll always get like a nice standard response, you could say, "That's great as a first pass. Tell me more. " You can keep going and it will never stop coming up with ideas. And some of them may not be as exciting to you, but some will continue to be like, "I never thought of that. I never thought of that. " So, it's kind of funny that you could actually just ask AI, h, how can you help me? But you have to provide it that context because unless you're creating a GPT where you're giving it instructions, and a newbie probably hasn't done that yet, the AI doesn't know who you are. It doesn't know what you want. work on, right? It doesn't know what your challenges are. You provide that context. I think that people, those newbies, if you think of it like a person and you actually ask it, you know, how can I work with you? What problems can you solve for me? I think that would be very enlightening. — I love that. The wider the context. Tell them about your life, your family circumstances, your hobbies, your interests, what you do, connections, who's in the home with you, your situation, where you live. I guess the more context the better. to your point around tell me more you know things you can do you sharing more about who you are what you're working on you'd think your beliefs your connections would make that even more powerful what about this Glenn what about the person who's quite who believes they're quite comfortable they're four or five times a day using AI for something um regular user maybe still using one platform only um what would your suggestions be to those folks in addition to probably what you just um shared because they probably haven't done that either at this point. — Yeah, that is a good foundation. I mean, even as someone who uses it a lot, we find in some of the training that we do that people are like, I use it a lot, but I'm not using it its highest best use. those more strategic um use cases, things that people almost often think that I use it for lower level tedious work like how can I use it for the things that are the most highlevel strategic deep things that I would normally only reserve for myself even though that's probably something they don't even think about doing. It's just automatic is I think a man of the limitation around what are these solutions capable of doing. Um, I will say they might just sound like little tips, but I think what's helpful in many cases is to do the work first and then ask AI for a second opinion. Um, I also think it's helpful not only to provide context for yourself, but then also think how can I have the AI look at it from a particular persona? Because if you don't give it a persona, it just kind of comes off the shelf out of the box with its standard approach. Um, when you start thinking like a person and then realize I can actually make it be any person. Like we just did an exercise literally earlier today where we were walking a group of people through using AI to create a business case. And you're like, "Okay, that's kind of straightforward. " But there was only one person in the group that ever done that before. So we're like, "Here's create a business case. " But then we flipped it and said, well, who will you be presenting the business case to? So like let's say you're presenting to the CFO, you can then ask the AI to play the role of the CFO and you can provide context, which we talked about. Like if you know the CFO and you've interacted with them and you can provide some clues as to how they typically like their main concerns, what they get stuck on, you provide that context. you can then have an interaction with the AI CFO to kind of beat up your uh proposal and have you think about things in a new way. Just like you said, you arrive at the meeting prepared. In this case, you haven't just created the business case. You've prepared to defend it because you've already defended it against a synthetic CFO, but realizing that if you think of it like a person, realize that it can literally be any person. So I'd say something that even if you're a regular user, you may not be using that persona element of what role you want it to play as much as people could. And that's good also from uh the perspective of brainstorming. It's like you AI can have its perspective, but you can also have it mimic the perspective of any particular audience. And that becomes helpful in some particular scenarios like sourcing recruiting say I want you to be a passive candidate that hasn't um doesn't like talking to recruiters and is not looking to make a change. Right? Just as an example. Um that's going to be a totally different scenario than one where you're not providing it that context. — So I'd say the persona angle is probably one of the things that I think is not used enough by people even if you do use it on a daily basis. I took a inadvertently took a leaf out of your book with the whole thing you know managing AI is like managing people and one of the things that we learn as a good leader is to get 360deree feedback and I have uploaded so many conversations to my AI I've asked so many things so many projects I've been involved in as a heavier user I asked AI

about my weaknesses like share with me my weaknesses where am I weak um because it knows me really well and it's unbiased it's not going to try and offend me it's not annoying me. It's not good to try to flatter me. It just tells me unbiased what my weaknesses are. But again, I think there's other opportunities for more advanced users. If it knows you more because you've been using it more, it knows more about you and you can use that to learn and develop. — Oh, absolutely. That's a fantastic um people can't see and it's one thing to ask other people that you work with for feedback. Like you said, um you can't do that all the time, but you can literally do that at any time with AI. Yeah, it's a fantastic resource that once you think of it that way, it's almost like I can't believe that I haven't been doing that. — I'm not going to share with you what it said, Glenn. That's a whole different story. Glad, you've been super helpful. Um, I know Glenn, you've recently launched some new training on the social talent platform around how recruiters can leverage AI using some of these same principles in terms of, you know, less about how do you prompt and more think, how do you get the most out of tools in your everyday usage. I'd encourage any recruiter who's interested in, you know, leveraging AI in their job to check out some of Glenn's content and the Social Town platform. If you have a license or reach out, we can show it to you, Glenn. It's been amazing. Just I've got so much inspiration from the ideas you've shared over the last few months. And I'm looking forward to continuing the journey and having more content as your journey with AI continues. Um, same as mine. Thanks for joining us today, Glenn. Always a pleasure. I know you're a busy man. You have a lot on your plate. Um, if folks want to follow Glenn, check out Glen Kathy. That's with an ey on LinkedIn if you don't follow him already. Glenn's posting stuff every day or two. Really great insights on AI technology, what's happening in the world and you're a fantastic resource in mind. Good to have you on the show. — Thank you. — Thank you so much. I really appreciate the chat — as always and thank you for joining us this week again for another fantastic insight on hiring excellence from a wonderful guest. Always pleasure to have Glenn in the show. We'll be back again next week with another great episode and another new leader chatting about how to achieve hiring excellence within their own organization and world. Do join us then. Until next week, take care.