Building Resilience: EQ in High-Pressure Entrepreneurial Environments

Well, hey everyone and thank you for joining our discussion on building resilience and using emotional intelligence in high pressure entrepreneurial environments. Um so today we're very lucky to have with us two entrepreneurs uh who'll be coming uh into the studio so you can see them in a moment. Um, just a quick intro. I'm Andrea Stone. I am a preferred partner with Six Seconds. And 6 seconds is a global leader in the research and the creation of assignments and tools to help leaders across the globe improve and practice emotional intelligence. and their vision is to have a billion people practicing emotional intelligence by 2039 across the world. So I'm based in India and have been for many years and today I'm talking with two um successful Indian entrepreneurs Shik Roy and Vicas Traveler about their journey and specifically uh moments of resilience that they've experienced. So we're going to welcome uh first off Chauc uh Chauvik Roy is a entrepreneur and a business leader and he has been working in this space for many decades. He creates and implements strategies for Indian and global brands uh both as an entrepreneur and as an entrepreneur. So welcome Chauvik. Thank you Andrea and thanks for having me here. It's it's really a pleasure. It's good to see you. Just uh in total transparency, I've known Chauik uh for around two decades. He's one of is he is the longest professional uh working relationship I've enjoyed in India. So it is an absolute pleasure to have shoveik with us and again in full transparency and as is the case with entrepreneurs um because we're stuck in traffic um and so he's just trying to find a um a hotel to take the call in. So we will carry on without Vicas until he joins the session. So it's all fun and games uh here today. So Shove I know that your background was actually in engineering and you moved into uh digital well marketing brands um early on in your career and then very into entrepreneurship. So tell us a bit about what propelled you into entrepreneurship. Yeah, I actually I have to jog my memory a lot because it happened a long time ago and uh my first stint in entrepreneurship was all the way back in 2002 and then I had I exited that in 2008 and I formed another organization uh with another co-founder. Um to answer your question you know what really got me into entrepreneurship I think uh first of all I should say that at that time startups were not cool. It was not a cool word. Uh nobody had heard of uh it was like okay you're going to start your own business and uh we say yeah I mean we're going to start our own business and so my dad was worried my family was worried like what's really this because you work in an MC and how are you going to really survive? I think the compelling and the driving need in me was to be able to do something which um is not instructed by others more like I want to do what and I clearly knew that there was an area that I wanted to get into and if I had to get into that area it would take me a lot more time if I had work in an organization. So I said the fast forward to that actually on my own. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks Shik. So Vicas has joined us from the nearest hotel he could find. Is that right? Let me actually Yeah. Um so yeah, Vikas is an entrepreneur and um yeah I don't think you were always an entrepreneur but you can tell us more about that and an angel investor and I saw today on LinkedIn uh that you are a recent indie corn so with revenues over 100 cr rupees. Uh so you focus on driving business results with digital marketing and AI. But uh tell us a bit yeah a bit about your background and show it was just uh talking about his journey and how in the early days uh parents used to be very worried right what are you doing starting your own business um so just tell us about what propelled you into entrepreneur yeah I know firstly apologies I think

for coming in late uh it's a good test of the high pressure environment that I think you have the webinar on and the resilience that we have But thanks for having me and uh hopefully it's not too bad. But uh a quick word about me. I started my entrepreneurship journey in 2012 and prior to that I was working uh in two different organizations. One in the hospitality sector. The other one was in manufacturing of uh premium bicycles and that's how I got into the world of marketing and uh you know digital and quit my job in 2012 to start this out and it's been an amazing 13 years. I think we've kind of grown with the digital journey as it's grown and uh and in many ways uh like you said you know we just been recognized in Indicon but I think the focus of that is really how do you build profitable businesses which are bootstrapped and I think that's really the part of that uh recognition that we're really proud of. Yeah. But happy to be here and thanks for having me Andrea. Pleasure. So tell us I'll ask you both this one but we're talking about resilience. Um so can you share if you look back over those 13 years and for shik it's going to be longer. Yeah. What were the moments of when your resilience was really tested and how did you move ahead from that? So we'll start with Vicas and then go to showing. Sure. Yeah. I think uh there are many times where you kind of get tested for your journey as an entrepreneur. I think COVID was definitely one of the bigger ones where you kind of reook at everything that's happening right from uh are you building business that are efficient? Do you have the right teams? Will you survive this at all? And I think a lot of questions more questions than answers and I think you know that was a period uh where we went down to almost zero revenue for a period of five six months and I think you know it was a tough time. Uh I think that's definitely one. I think second is with what's happening in AI right now. I think it's again a different period of uncertainty for us because the way we see AI and AI agents and JI becoming smarter. Uh frankly, we're not sure that this current business model is going to hold the test of time even in the next 24 months. So it's pretty uh uncertain times. So you know and often in these times you kind of go back to people that have been there for you be it your family I have a co-founder so for me you know we kind of bounce off what's the future looking like and I think being able to first of all be able to just bring it out and talk to somebody I think that really helps and uh second is really having the right talent and team around you because you need someone who's going to be agile and adapt and keep evolving and that's what happened during co and We're hoping that's what's going to happen with AI as well that you have folks around you that will continue on this journey and adapt along with you. But uh that's I think those are the quick thoughts around where I had uncertainty. Yeah. So it's interesting you say co times which I suppose I was expecting and I had some insight into that. I was also wondering at the beginning of your journey if there was any kind of resilience moments that were tested. Right. I think discretion of memory what you know what I'm saying but I'm sure there were times uh up in the beginning as well. Yeah. And yeah and I know you're a big advocate of AI. I mean we'll get on to that later because I've seen your posts on LinkedIn using AI and you know creating you or your avatar. Uh but let's go to Chauve. So talk us through because I remember first coming to India and it you know it was not the done thing to start your own business uh especially as an engineer moving into um branding. So talk us through the moments of resilience that you've experienced show. Yeah my journeys of course are a lot longer than Vicasses. where I've had like many instances and uh where I had to really um you know I was challenged and life follows through challenges and it keeps doing now I mean I connect with what Vicass is talking about in the AI and how it's changing the entire content and branding and business landscape you know it's a new challenge so and the and the thing about you know this kind these kinds of challenges that none of the past lessons really come in handy I mean you say that you learn a lesson you don't really learn a lesson because it's almost like a new playbook every time. So I um I think the the hardest period in my life if I say professionally was actually in 2008 and n because I started out um a branding and design company in 2008 and you and I worked together at that time quite uh quite a

lot and u that's the year and we hired a lot of people we had a big office and suddenly you know the market crashed and uh businesses were looking really down so that entire year and a half we scaled down from I think we cut down people to about one/ird um you know I think pretty much everything that could go wrong was going wrong and we're trying to manage the business and in that you know there was a personal battle my father was battling cancer at that time and that also happened so it's like a lot of things together they just attack you and you just seem to want to give up but I think that's as humans we have this um natural ability to you know come out of it and reflect on it later as long as you have come out of it. I mean not everybody fortunate enough to come out of it and talk about it. So um so I think I think going back to your question about you know what are the what are the what's resilience? I think how how do you look back at that time and how do you interpret it? I think it's like learning to fail learning to keep quiet uh or even learning to forget many things. Um it's it's a bundle of things that you know this kind of package is in and it's never hard never easy when you're going through it. It's only good in you know hindsight that okay I learned my lessons but like I said uh you learned that lesson but there's always a new one that's thrown at you. Yeah. Um interesting you always get a new lesson so you can't apply the old lessons. I don't know. Would you agree if it cast with I saw you nodding? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think you know each challenge is unique and the world we live in actually we're going to have a lot more newer challenges to deal with and often there's no precedence of how to deal with these challenges right in some ways there is and I was listening to an interview by Satan Nadella of Microsoft and he was talking about how actually in the last 20 years of the tech technology revolution there have been times where entire business models have been redependent but unfortunately I was not an entrepreneur in those phases. So qualif happened over time many times but may not be the same individual that's actually been there in each of those times right unless you have a very long entrepreneurship journey which I haven't so I think you know in many ways yes I agree it's a new challenge AI is a very different challenge than co and tomorrow we may have a very different challenge which we probably don't even know exists at this point I am very curious about that but I think then we deviate off the topic of resilience and some changes you know essentially what the change is. It's just will you ready yourself to manage it but I'm not even sure in the when we look at AI that we know exactly how that will evolve. Um so that also speaks to this the resilience in times of great uncertainty. Quick question um and you know be as honest as you can. What continues to test your resilience that is wholly manageable? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Well, I mean things that are manageable and you can control to a certain extent. Uh what continues to test your resilience? And I just want to say hi to everyone coming into the call. And if you've got questions, type them in and we'll ask uh Shik and Vicas. Yeah, I think uh you know we are in a service business. So in many ways your resilience is tested every single day because you know uh be it talent leaving you, be it clients being unhappy, uh be uh you know you know things that are in your control but continue to challenge you because you know at least in the Indian market that we focus on clients are always unhappy right even if you're doing a great job. In many ways you need you always have that question hey am I doing the right thing I mean a client is in fact I was in a meeting yesterday where the client is unhappy with the results from his perspective but the way we look at it you would be a decent job you may not have been doing a terrible job but that's how he portrayed it right so and I think you know often those are the things where you I personally take a step back and relook at first principles and see are we doing the right things that we are supposed to do or if it's a it's somebody in my team leaving that did we do enough to give them a very challenging role? Did we do enough to pay them the right compensation? Did we do enough for the things that are in our control? And often taking a step right helps you get better at it next

time. But I think you know uh for me talent and plan satisfaction definitely like my everyday challenges that question my resilience in many ways. Yeah, I would actually you know agree with this uh completely. Service the service industry of course is one part which is very unique to service industry. Everybody's stretched all the time. Um I think but the second one which is about people and uh you know how people test your um resilience far more than many other things do. Um and the larger the organization is and the more talented people you have in the organization, the brighter it tests even further because um it's like you know there is a certain rational argument that you can have with people about either about stretch or about working or uh rational arguments only go so far. Um and eventually you your best performing people or your team members are those who are actually emotionally bound to you and the organization and you know whatever goals that they have set for themselves in the organization. So I think this that actually takes away a lot of energy from uh every entrepreneur. I can talk about me I can hear the car saying the same thing. I think it takes away it draws a lot of energy because you are really invested in them because you know that you're not a conglomerate where one person goes and it can be easily replaced by another person. Um hiring, training, keeping people uh getting people to you know uh perform uh to their best capabilities. I think all those are regular challenges that we keep facing and that kind of tests us a lot. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. About the people side of things, I just want to encourage people on the call, I recognize some of the names uh from coma days. Good to see you in different parts of the world to um to ask questions. Um but to that point about the energy that's taken away and you're starting again and you don't have the machinery that you can delegate the ups you know the nurturing of new people. Yeah. It takes a lot of energy. Um and so just to bring in the six seconds research here on resilience. Um then I'm going to ask you a question around this. Um so the four factors we found um from research that um contribute to resilience is obviously mental well-being, emotional, physical well-being as well as purpose, a sense a strong sense of purpose um which can which keeps us on track if we tune into it. Um, so I was wondering um if you it could be purpose or it could be mental, physical, emotional strengths that keep you going in those moments. I'd really love to hear about your sense of purpose. So if you could, but I leave it to you. What keeps you going from those four tenets of uh resilience? Go on. Who's starting? You want to go this time? Last one. So I'll take that first. Um yeah, I mean um I have a mildly different take on this because for me uh purpose is always goal directed and um you know I I feel that when it's goal directed uh success is all very relative. You know my goal direction and my uh way of measuring success is very different from and I'm just saying not just in this room I'm saying even in my organization is very different. So um I would stick to values more like what's my value system what's the organizational value system as as something that you know kind of has to come together for uh combined success to happen organizationally and um I think uh the role that we play as entrepreneurs is to is very human uh you know it's a very humane role and what keeps us going is you know um the embracing change and never getting too comfortable. You know, it's like you always it's like a moving point. So when I when somebody says purpose to me, I almost feel like it's like that one little beacon that I'm following, right? So at least in the last 30 years of my being at whatever I've been at professionally, I've always seen that it's been a changing goalpost. So if your value systems are aligned, then the changes you can embrace and you can grow together. Otherwise if you set yourself saying you know what I'm very goal directed this is my purpose I'm going to create this and in today's day and age you know I mean we constantly changing I mean it's the pace of change is unimaginable. So I think um I think the challenges that are

thrown to us uh regularly can only be embraced once we are adaptable enough and for that I think the value system alignment is far more critical. So, so just before I come to Viccast, can you tell us a bit more about the values and the um keep you going? I covered a little bit. I mean, I started by saying that you know I think finally the uh it's it's about uh you know personal growth and collective growth. Uh that's definitely there. Uh there is this entire um you know humaness that's there in the workplace that's extremely important as a value system. I'm just talking about me and you know you can keep adding to it and um somewhere uh you know success has to be defined uh but it can keep changing so my measures of success will be constantly changing and I'm not saying every day or every month but it needs to constantly change so uh adaptability becomes another key value you know constant flexibility changing adaptability I think those are the three four core values that I think kind of really bring uh more resilience in an organization. Lovely. Thank you. Thanks, Sherik. Um Zikas, what do you say? Is it values that propel you forward? Is it a sense of purpose? What is it? Yeah, I think you know I actually did this exercise with someone else to talk about what is the legacy that I want to leave as an individual, right? And how can I live that legacy today? And actually from that exercise what I figured was that uh I think the purpose and the emotional intelligence in some ways both of them for me at least are intertwined because I derive my energy from people and helping people and coaching them and mentoring them. Uh be it uh the team that we have or be it other entrepreneurs that I sometimes get the opportunity to coach and mentor. So that's where I get the energy from. Right. And so in many ways uh for me it's more about the emotional intelligence and me personally being able to add value to someone else's life. And that's my purpose in many ways. Yeah, I guess it's a combination. Uh but I think the purpose may not necessarily be my day job of hey I'm running a business that adds value towards marketing solutions. Yeah, that's part of the part of what I do but that may not be my purpose. So I think you know with the way I look at purpose is what do I want to be doing for the rest of my life and I may be doing parts of that today in my role as an entrepreneur but but the purpose is probably much larger than that. Yeah. Yes. I'm hearing from both of you uh this human side. So honestly for me purpose is more about that. Um you know what's bigger than me. It's it's not the goal but different people define it differently. Um so yeah I take your point that uh it's how you coach or leave um a positive impression on others or help them become the best that they can become and nurture them. And I'm hearing the same also from Shik that the energy of uh people uh is important and tuning into people and what they need uh fuels both of you. So you've brought up the topic of emotional intelligence um which at six seconds we define as blending thinking and feeling skills to make better decisions. And so um a bit of gan as we say in Hindi um you know in India and we are focused on India there's a very strong rational data focus and much less uh emotional data focus. So we look at the rationality, the figures, the facts, the logic and less at people and what drives them and what they're feeling and to Sherik's point earlier, you know, how you motivate people, how you engage with them, you know, the feeling of loss you even feel when they move on, there's a strong personal connection and I even remember, you know, people who've worked with you uh going to your going to Vikas's office everyone huddling around, jumping in, helping each other out. Um, so just let me ask you this question then. Uh, because you both clued into emotions. Um, is there a time, can you remember a time on your journey which was um maybe pivotal for you, but an important lesson that you tuned into what was going on for someone else and it changed the way you handled a situation in your business. Um, can you

ever can you think of a moment where you were just really aware that oh, I need to just recalibrate or just pause for a moment before I put my foot in it big time. I don't know if that's I mean there's some for me. Uh, but this isn't about me. It's about you. I can see Sherik nodding his head. So, I'm hoping that's a signal. Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah, I think uh yeah, I mean without naming instances and periods of time, I'll just uh share something, you know, when uh so I've been in a couple of um business partnerships, you know, so co-founder business partnerships and um usually uh you know, co-founders always teach each other lessons. I'm sure Vikas's co-founder and he kind of complement each other in various things and I think uh one of the continuing lessons you know that I think continue to I think kind of gladden me as well as haunt me sometimes is that um if there is a there was a partnership of inequals as in um not inequals in the eyes of the world but professional inequals I mean somebody had a lot of experience and somebody has lesser experience But um you know though so so obviously when there's a certain passage of time you realize that the two cannot converge at all points in time. It has to diverge. So you know you choose a path and your partner chooses another path and which is all fair. Um but the lesson there is that I learned from this experience of uh divergence in one of my earlier partnerships was that um you need to have really have a lot of emphasis on um coexistence apart from just doing a business together. um which by which I mean that you know you need to genuinely cultivate friendships, get along with each other because you're really invested in each other uh beyond the office hours as well. I mean that's how that's the lesson that I took away from there and um and that I tried to cultivate in all my business relationships which is including you uh Andrea. I mean I have I learned very valuable lesson there because I said look this is a partnership is always long-term. I mean you look at one or two years I mean there's nothing that you do for only profit. It's business will happen as long as uh you are able to carry on a relationship for a long time just outside the meeting rooms and outside the work scenario and that's when real partnerships happen not just within your co-founder uh partnerships but even beyond that into business partnerships your your clients your your business partners your employees whoever you know your key employees so I think there uh I think I learned a very valuable lesson that you know you needed to have a lot more bonding beyond work um and genuinely be interested in each other's lives to uh to progress together for a long time. Yeah. Uh so genuine I'm hearing like connection. You're genuinely vested in the people around you. And I I'm reading in that the importance of the partners you choose to have a an you know a codependent relationship on is truly important. Um so thank you for sharing that and absolutely I'm going to come on to that in a bit because you're both highly affable individuals but we'll get to that in a moment. Um what about you um Vikas? Tell us a bit about um yeah those moments of emotional intelligence or maybe you want to add to the point that Shiik made about the importance of the partners and the cultivating of relationships over time. Yeah. You know, I think you know there have been instances where uh you have to choose between prioritizing the business versus prioritizing something that an individual wants, right? And you know this happened a few years ago where this individual uh was going through something uh in his personal life and he was not able to deliver value at what he was doing. And I think you know uh we we had the conversation and then we said hey you need the time out and you also need to maybe have clients which are uh going to be easier for you to handle over the next few weeks and months. So we kind of remodeled his role a bit and uh did that

but you know it's not always possible to do that right and in that specific instance it was possible so we did it and he had been with us for a few years so there was also a reason and an intent to do it. So it's a combination of I would say how deep that relationship was and the circumstances that allowed us to make that happen but often that emotional like the emotional state of that team member and that individual uh is something we try and incorporate but sometimes you cannot right and there have been times where somebody is having some difficult challenges but the role and and the clients that they're working with also require certain rigor and then you have find a way to maybe sometimes replace an individual with somebody else who can do that job. Right? So I think it's a tough balance that you need to do as entrepreneurs to be able to manage uh the emotional intelligence and emotional quotient of the team members that you work with. But we try and strive to do it especially for folks that have been with us for longer. only for a few months, it gets even more harder because you don't really understand the full context of whether they are they can actually add value or not because they still haven't started adding that value. Right. So I think that's my take on it. Yeah. And when you say that, I'm also thinking about the stage of growth because you've you know, you've grown both of you grown businesses and gone up the curve and at some stage um it's hard to maintain those personal relationships. That becomes a stage where the processes need to take over. Uh and how do you maintain that? Um, how do you take the team along with you in those times of change when they're used to quite a cozy relationship and connection with you on a daily basis and then there needs to be a bit more formality in how we do things in the business? How do you handle that? Yeah, I can take that first. I think you know, yeah, very valid point. I think as we've scaled, we've got like a senior individual to head our HR. We've also got different senior leaders in different teams over the years and I think you know uh there are team members who used to directly work with you and now they're not and I think you know a lot of times uh it takes a lot of change management to talk to them about it to prepare them for it and then take them through that journey but also have opportunities where they can uh still go back to doing things they were right. So for example, I still whenever someone completes a year at uh at socialbe uh I catch up with them virtually or in person uh to see how the journey has been and sort of give them an opportunity to ask me anything or give me feedback or give us feedback on how we're doing, right? So I think finding those ways to still create that access to the leadership, access to the founders or to the leadership team. I think we've seen that really work and help to still keep that in place. But yeah, you do need bit more process, a bit more uh structure as you scale and grow and that's inevitable. You will have structures and processes, but you still need to stay nimble and still give access to leaders and that's how we've been able to kind of manage it. Yeah, I think I think pretty similar to that. I think there are in an in a setup in an entrepreneurial setup there are I find that there are two kinds of people who join one who need inspiration and guidance uh which is the larger number I'm saying any team which is more than 100 people um a large number would be inspiration and guidance for them you need to be accessible approachable uh you need to have a good relationship and you need to keep inspiring them keep motivating them by doing something or the other it's one to many really and then there are people in an enterprise is where who are your partners your real partners for growth and those are a handful of people those could be five 10 20 um because it's not possible to manage more real relationships than a certain number I mean your capacity can be 50 my capacity can be five and you know so it really depends on and not everybody is an extrovert so you won't go out all the time so we all have our own ways of handling those relationships so but those relationships have to be nurtured and those are the ones that take the organization forward. So both are equally important. You spend more time deeper time in the second one but the first one you have to keep your eyes on it because otherwise you lose some of your future bright stars or it'll be like a forever revolving door. Uh they need to see you as a leader who continues to inspire them. They should be proud to say, "Okay, I work with this guy who obviously or this this lady who obviously has done doing better

work than most of the people that I know or um and and keep guiding them and if your intention is that you want them to grow, they get it. I think it's a very simple thing. People get genuineess at a human level. If you're really worried about their growth, they will get it. You don't have to spend too much time with them. Yeah. So, um, in fact, when as you're saying that, there's a comment from Amina saying, you know, having those conversations with, you know, you your intent is to help them grow and giving the feedback, they're open to it. Um, I'm going to ask Vicas a difficult question. What happens when they're not open to it? How do you handle that? Yeah. uh it's tough I think you know and actually we do find at times uh folks uh especially some of the younger team members who are probably getting feedback like this for the very first time they're a little taken aback as to you know how come they're getting this feedback because they feel like they're doing whatever it takes uh and often I think it's about expectations and have you set the right expectations from the very beginning and uh and which is why we try can do that especially with uh you know some of our larger teams where we sit down and explain what do we mean by these roles and also by years of experience right like if you are a more experienced leader in the organization there are certain things we expect you to do and these are not implied it's actually put down in a document and you know exactly what uh you expect and I think that's a starting point to be able to give that feedback saying hey we put this found but we've not been able to see uh movement in these two areas and then so it it's a lot more subjective uh and second is I think you also help a lot of leaders and my me myself as well as to give objective feedback with specific examples of when and how have they not met that expectation so it's not a uh it's not vague feedback saying oh I don't think this presentation works right that's a very vague feedback what does it mean so I think you Often it's also about putting on more specifics uh and helping them uh articulate helping articulate the feedback in a way where you know what the next steps are and how do you improve on that and that also helps often folks that are a bit hesitant or become defensive when we talk about the problems. Uh we often try and say okay this may be the problem from my perspective maybe not from you but this is these are the solutions and these are the next steps that we expect to work together on. so that we improve this and often moving towards the solution helps uh bridge that gap as well. Yeah. And um I mean how is there any importance of people giving you feedback to build your resilience? I mean is that a part of the equation getting feedback from your team? Um yeah yeah I do ask my team for feedback but I think there are very few people that actually end up giving it. Uh really come on you're so open I am but I think you know often u I think a lot of team members are open to giving feedback towards the organization at a whole right but when you start asking saying give me feedback for me or for my other co-founder or you know or somebody else senior leaders ask for special feedback about themselves I think their team members was not as forthcoming and it's probably part of the culture as well where you know there is a bit of uh to be able yeah so what's your take on that no I faced that too I think uh individual feedback is very rare u it happens u if things go really south sometimes u in exit interviews or whatever and you know that feedback is coming and you also know why it's Um so those you take with a pinch of salt but the genuine feedback which is a exchange of you know what they think is working not working critical feedback I think that's one of the perils of entrepreneurship because you know we are not subject to any appraisals or any K systems we've never been you know so there's only been like one year in the last 22 years that somebody's done an appraisal full appraisal on me you know it was quite quite fun I thought it was great because you're getting ratings from everyone and you know people who are doing writing things about you but I think when you're on your own and uh you know pretty much everybody's looking at your feedback um unless you're you have a investor board which is giving you feedback which is

usually critical about the business that you're doing you don't really get work feedback much and I think that's one of the downsides of entrepreneurship. Yeah. Hey, earlier you talked about younger team members um can pose challenges. Um so I hear this quite a lot. Now this is not necessarily in the context of entrepreneurship but um maybe gen X leaders saying I just don't know how to manage Gen Z uh team members. And now how is this in the entrepreneurial world? Do you have more Gen Z's? Do you handle Gen Z's better? what should we have I mean Gen Z's u I mean started with millennials now Gen Z's and now even genphas are getting into the work stream uh starting next year or so um yeah I mean I I find them much brighter than uh all of us honestly uh maybe not as crazily hardworking or as diligent as us some of us but I think they they can do a lot more in a lot less time um we just don't understand it because we are used to our ways of looking at the world. So I admire them. I think there's quite a lot of admirable qualities in Gen Z. I think uh they their application also their oneness with technology is quite amazing to see the way they pick up stuff um you know is much faster than any of us. So I yeah I think u um I mean it's quite a pleasure working with them. And um Jenzi also you know I think I think maybe I'm a little biased because we've been able to manage we've hired a lot of very bright Jenz's so uh the only issue that I see and I think it's a it's a peril for the times is that they don't stick around to any job for a long time. um they move and I think the first five years six years which is where they are right now in their work uh for five years uh they move so they don't really stick around but as a as people I quite like them I think I think every generation blames the one for and uh they blame us for a lot of things but uh I think they're all okay so it's a manager's issue not the genz's we need to manage better it's on us Okay. What about you Vicas? Because you have a lot of youngsters in social be right. Yeah, we have a lot of Jenz's and I think uh yeah, I agree with Shaw that actually it's they're really bright folks, right? And I think uh but they they've been brought up in a different worldview. they uh have different expectations and you know they've also been hearing about how they can make a quick buck uh through by being a creator or make a quick buck by being a freelancer or you know do investments in the in the stock market to make a quick buck. So I think that expectation and the u the ability to do things faster be it order something and get it in 10 minutes. So, so the impatience is everywhere, right? So, that impatience combined with that ambition to make money really quickly. I think that's really where a lot of that uh come manifests in different ways. And you know, the way we handle it is uh I think one caveat there is any batch that actually graduated during COVID or did their university during lockdown. I think that is a bigger challenge, right? I think and we've seen that over the last few years and but now it's better I totally agree ch that talent is really talented you have to find ways to manage them better to manage expectations better and give them opportunities to do things which uh which you would not have given but you need to structure those roles very differently and we actually seeing their ability to adapt to AI their ability to do new things is significantly faster they're able to adapt much faster right so I think there are definitely both but definitely need to balance them differently. I'm just wondering there when you share about your experience with Gen Z and I hate to like bucket a whole generation as you know in one label really but um you know that speed and that impatience and that desire to move things ahead and try different things out. I'm just wondering is uh might there be a resilience challenge for them at some stage? I don't know. It's just a hypothetical question seeen as we're on that topic. Yeah, I agree. And I think you know we implemented a um solution for mental health and like virtual therapy for our team and I think you know we've actually seen that usage go up as we get in more younger talent, right? And I don't know whether it's specifically about Gen Z or just

that more people need that uh support but I think you know definitely there's so much more uncertainty in this world today than we had 5 years ago or 10 years ago and that means um and even in India I was just I the reason I got delayed was the there's there is a drill that they did in Delhi and you know and that's why I got delayed but I think you know there's so much uncertainty And a lot of it is just negative energy that you are trying to deal with and how do you stay positive amongst all this negative energy and uncertainty. Right? So definitely I agree I think there is going to be a lot more need for focus on mental health and being making that an important pillar for individuals than for organizations. Yeah. Shaveik, I think Shaveik's uh the drills hit Shauvik, we can't hear you. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, Um I was saying that I think Gen Z is uh far more has had to be far more emotionally mature than some of the previous generations. um because uh what they've grown up with is um you know constant comparisons, constant criticism, constant social media, constant everything. And um resilience comes much more naturally to them than we all imagine and talk here. Um I have a daughter of Gen Z and I see her friends and I see the way they deal with situations and things and I think that if I were her age, I wouldn't even know what I mean honestly. I mean that's been my uh my experience with Gen Z so far as their uh emotional quotient is concerned. Um I think they got a lot before um you know a lot earlier in life than any other generation. So I think they'll find a way to risk it. Yes. uh and to that point uh well actually you know just want to cover one thing that Vicas shared about well-being and it's not something we would typically have talked about when I first came to India very openly um but I'm pleased to see that change because um you know obviously in recent times globally you know our research shows that wellbe well-being has plummeted I mean that's the area where uh when we look at success and shikid spoke spoken about that we have we measure success in terms of the quality of our relationships, our effectiveness, our well-being, and our sense of satisfaction and achievement. That's how we measure success at 6 seconds. But the well-being part has absolutely plummeted globally. And so, we do really need to um look out for that and support people. Um and like you said, there's that constant comparison and uh you know, social media, am I good enough? There's been lots of um clients talking about that. Um I do want to touch on the point that you made as well, both of you, about the energy and the positivity you bring. So from personal experience, you're both I call it relentlessly upbeat. It's like there's never a frown on either of your faces. Uh which I experienced throughout working relationships. So um how do you manage that? Is that your natural disposition or is that something is that learned optimism? Tell us your secrets. I think in my case very early in life I just realized that the world is filled with people who are far brighter than I am. Know far more than I do. So I've never really taken myself very seriously. I think that automatically brings a smile on my face saying okay I'm sure Andrea knows more about things than I do. I'm sure Vicas knows more So it's all right. I mean I think jokes apart. I don't think I have taken anything so seriously that it'll bring down the uh the overall energy levels in the room and I think it's a natural it is a natural disposition I would say. I mean blessed with that because I know I don't like to mope a lot. I mean I usually do in my quiet comfort of my homes because we all have to balance it out. But yeah uh in a public facing environment in an organization in a room where um people are you know solving problems or people are hustling or you know it's a midnight shift or I make it a point to bring my positivity there. I mean that's how I am. I have kind of led my life. So yeah. Okay. So it's natural disposition for sure. Vic, what about you Vicas? Yeah, I think it's twofold for me. One is I think comes from the family values and just being around how you sort of had your childhood and I think some of it definitely comes from there and you know that's why me and my brother or even my entire family I think uh for even Arushi my wife and her I mean happiness is at the center of who we are as a family and as individuals I

think second is some of the values that we've embedded over time helped us remain happy which is I would say the humility or just being transparent because if you have nothing to hide then you're not anxious and you're not you know you don't have a reason to be unhappy right so like everyone in our company knows what a revenue is and what is the revenue by each client right so a lot of the transparency helps because when tomorrow even if you have increments which are lower they know where is it coming from you know because the company's only grown this much so I think a lot of it comes down to even the grass roots of how you function and what kind of values drive you because that then determines how happy you are and how happy you remain and I think a smaller aspect is also we always had sort of financial independence and we've you know come from uh that comfort of not I mean at least we didn't have financial challenges growing up and we don't have them today and that probably definitely adds to it as well but I do know people who have financial challenges and also happy right but for me definitely not having the financial challenges has helped stay happier I would think yeah don't make us jealous uh No, you're absolutely. Yeah, there is research around that. There's a certain minimum level of money beyond which does not impact your happiness. That's your choice if you work on it or not. And to your point about values, absolutely. So, you posted going back to family and shared values and so on because you you'd posted earlier that um it was important to take time out um and I think that spoke a bit to resilience to re-energizing and spend time with your young son. Um, so how do you protect that emotional bandwidth for your family time whilst you're also running a growing business? Yeah, I think one is to actually block that time, right? So, you know, just in your calendar blocking that time because uh for example, there are times when I go pick up my son from his school, which does mean I need to block out probably about 90 minutes in my calendar because I need to go pick him up and he probably uh go grab the chocolate cake that he loves or whatever it is that he wants to do in that particular moment of time. Uh or even if it's in the evening and I block out time to spend time because then I go home by 7 so I can actually spend time. I may actually pick up a call at 8 or 8:30 if I need to because we have something to do but between that 7 to 8 on those days I would not you know have any call. So I think it's one is to just block out the time. I think two you also need to be able to switch off when you are in that zone right so for me the moment I enter home or the moment I'm with him or with my wife uh you know I I mentally switch off and I know it's hard for many people but for me somehow it's been easy right I I'm instantly in a different zone and I stop thinking about my clients and my team and everything else right but if I'm in a in my laptop and have a call then I get back in the zone but it's not always easy. For me, it's been easy somehow. And I think uh it probably comes from giving everything you have during that moment, right? U being present where you are. So, wherever you are, it be in this call where uh I could very well be on my phone and doing things on the side when Shi is talking. But if you are fully immersed, if you're fully immersed and listening to Shawik listening to your questions, then you're in a different zone. And that and that's partly Uh, and it's hard. You know, there are times when I'm sitting across like a two-hour client meeting and you're tempted to look at your phone and do something. Uh, and you would sometimes, but at least 95% of the time you are doing one thing at a time and sort of focus on that. Yeah. Because we can't multitask. So, and and people know if you're not focused obviously and you break that connection, right? And you minimize your effectiveness. Lovely. Um, what about you, Sherik? because you're in a different stage of life. Your daughter's an adult. Uh and I'm just wondering has she seen you navigate your journey? I mean, you were an entrepreneur, I think, when she was born. I'm not sure, but um her having observed you, um what do you think or hope or know she's learned from you that will serve her? Wow, I think this question is best answered by her, but let me make an attempt. Um, yeah, I I think I um we did a lot of stuff together. We uh we heard a lot of music. We played a lot of music together when she was growing up. Um she's an avid reader. So, uh we exchanged a lot of ideas. Um yeah

she plays basketball, which I don't. So I got interested in basketball because of her uh yeah of course it's now many years she's now 21 so it's like a you know almost you know more than two decades of her growing up now she doesn't stay with us she lives in London but um I think I did push her to become u whoever she wanted to be I think that's the nudge that I constantly you know kind of my wife very clear that um it's Not that we had an idea of what we should raise our daughter as. We never had that. We said, "Okay, let's see what she can grow and what she likes to do and let's just motivate her to do that. " Which is what we continue to do. And we both I think her to be free. Just don't u do things because of constraints. Do things because you really want to do them. Um and I think it's a generational thing for us because a lot of us growing up in India in the 80s and 90s and we had a lot of constraints. We were not um exposed to several things and it was not just about the money it was about exposure. It was about travel it was about cultures it was about understanding the access to books access to reading access to music. I mean I remember going to mixtape stores to hear some of my music and I said look we grew up with that but then you know she doesn't need to and I think this exposure and just egging her to do what she wanted to do is has been the uh the most joyful part of her upbringing. Lovely, lovely. Hey, I'm conscious of the time and um and that the we've covered a lot of ground um the topic is resilience for entrepreneurs. So my final question for both of you um for budding entrepreneurs or people who've embarked on their entrepreneurial journey, is there anything that you wish you'd known about um either something or about your earlier self um that could serve as valuable advice? Because you want to go first. That's a tough one. I think uh you know I think I think entrepreneurship is a lot about finding the right people to join the journey with you and you know as we've gone through that journey I think the only thing that has stood the test of time is have been teams and individuals that uh have at least some of the shared values that you have and I think it it's taken us some time to figure that out and that's probably more important because often in the early days you would also try to hire for skill sets and skills and knowledge but you know actually if I look back at folks that have continued to be with us and grow with us and uh team members that you enjoy being with I think you know they share similar values uh and and at least some of the similar values and I think that's really important and that's what gives me at least the emotional satisfaction that you know we've had a great journey and continue to have a great journey. So I think find the right people to join that journey with you. I think that would be what I would have loved to know that that's the most important thing in the journey. Yeah. Fantastic. Thank you. Thanks because shik what about you? Yeah I I heard your question a little differently so I'm going to answer it a little differently. Yeah. Answer it differently. Yeah. um it's about the budding and entrepreneurs and uh which something I would have known when I started right that was the question so yeah I I think uh if I go back and I will tell myself you I probably knew it even then but I will kind of um drill that in my head that uh don't worry about the what the world thinks of you because that's should be the least of your problems personally I mean that's what I would tell myself uh 20 years ago uh don't be too concerned about it because there have been times I mean we all have been I have been you know how's the world seeing me and particularly when I started out you know my friends were all in this fancy you know um MNC's and they were traveling business class all across the world I could barely afford economy tickets so uh you know it bothered me and I think uh and now I look back and laugh at it I can now but then it really bothered me so I would go back and tell myself don't worry about that lovely Yeah. Um, don't bother about it. Stay on your course. Uh, which you both did, uh, and continue to do. So, I applaud you for that and carving, um, out your futures and also piring pioneering areas for entrepreneurs to move into as well. Um, so well done on your journey.

It's been an absolute honor and pleasure to know you both. uh and thank you for g uh investing let's call it investing your time uh discussing resilience emotional intelligence and the importance of the relationships throughout the journey and being true to yourself. Uh so on that note, thank you. Thank you everyone who joined the call or who's watching uh the recording at some stage and thank you for the comments a rich conversation. Thank you Huda. Thank you so much. Thanks Vicas. Thank you Shik. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks.