Dating Myths, Alpha Energy, Nice Guys & The Truth About Attraction in relationships | MFM Podcast

Hey everyone, welcome to the MFM podcast. Dan, Michelle, Shab, uh, I'd like to hear. Can I say I'm glad the OG crew is back together? Yeah. Every time I edit some of the old episodes, I'm like, we talk about good stuff, the three of us. Anyway, sorry, Dan. Always interrupting you. So, tell me uh tell me what you've been arguing about recently in your relationship. Just throw them right out there. Let's talk about your relationship. We were having a kind of a running discussion the past uh Wait, who? Uh me and my girlfriend. Are we giving her a nickname or um we can call her Hungllay? Yeah. No, we can't call her that. No, we can't. No, we can't cuz I You guys call everything that. Uh no, we were having a running discussion. She showed me some meme or something one of her friends sent that was saying for a successful relationship to work, the man has to be more into the girl than the girl is into the man. And I Oh boy. And I Well, first of all, why did she even show you that? That's her first to be more into the woman. She was saying the man has to be more like into the woman than the woman into the man. And I adamantly disagreed with that. Well, I mean, that's the opposite. Yeah. Even as a woman, I'll agree. So, that's all the meme said. Did it say like it's that like romantic Disney fairy tale conditioning that women have that they think that's what our moms taught us. I have to tell you that. They think that like and they're only thinking about once they're already obsessed with the guy that they want the guy to be into them. But the bottom line is if you get too into a girl before she wants you to be into her relationship done it will not go anywhere. And so and even in throughout the relationship I feel like the girl always has to feel like she's chasing him a little bit because women are hypergamous. Men are not hyper. Women want to feel like you were the best that they can do. And if they ever question that, the attraction is going to get compromised. If the guy does genuinely feel like, "Wow, this is the best girl that I could ever do. She is better than me. I could never do better that. " You better you dang well better know how to not let her think that. You know what I mean? Because if she starts to think that I used to disagree with you guys, and you'll know that if you look at the beginning of our like first couple episodes, I used to disagree with you all the time, right? But here's where I think you need to define this a little bit so women understand you. That moment that too soon moment I think is really important because when a woman there's a certain area where if you do come on like that it's a good thing you know but like in the beginning it's not. Well, she has to already be have like genuine burning desire for you. Here's the difference between men and women. Let's say you have a guy whose dating market value is a seven and a girl seven. the guy can date the go after the seven knowing she's a seven because guys can date across and even below them. The girl will a girl that's a seven does not want to date a guy that's a seven. She has to think he's got to bring some other type of value that makes him at least an eight or a nine in her eyes. Like he makes money, he's got status, conf what whatever these attraction triggers he can get out of her. But a girl only dates across and up. Like she will not date a guy that she thinks is equal to her or below her. There's just too many options for women. Although every woman makes the mistake in her life, though. Women do date down. And I think they make that mistake once in their life. Well, they don't realize. No, but what I'm saying is they perceive the guy like, you're right. to be high. Then they realize he's a [ __ ] loser. Yeah, there's an actual super viral post right now where this girl goes, "Everybody post your medium ugly ex-boyfriends that you're embarrassed to even admit that like and the pictures are disgusting. These gorgeous women with these ugly guys. " And in there they're like, you see that all the time. He cheated on me with this, he did this. But a man's value is not defined by his looks. The same way a woman's value is defined by her looks, her virtue or purity. That is how a woman's value is defined. A man's value is maybe defined 25% off his looks. The rest is, you know, what is his status? What what, you know, can he protect and provide for his loved ones? All these things. And you're saying like a guy, how does a guy make a girl think that he's better than her? It's called game. Yeah. No, agreed. It's called he has game. And like if he's able to display those certain things, he can make a And here's the thing, like why? Yeah. a guy who he could be a dead beat, but if he makes her think that he's above her, you know, by whatever, buying 99,000 followers on Instagram and posting pictures with Lamborghinis and, you know, pretending that he has like a million his status. Yeah, exactly. Then she may get with him. She'll real She'll get obsessed with him. Then she'll realize he's a deadbeat loser. But once a girl already made that investment Exactly. Once a girl is obsessed and then and

then you have a lot of guys like that who do put on you know a false facade. A lot of those guys are also the types of guys who will be like you like they'll manipulate the girl once she realizes they're a dead beat. He'll like you going to leave me like everyone else in my life you know like that kind of thing like I guess you don't love me. If you love me you'd say. And then you know then she's like stuck because now he's emotionally manipulating her. Yeah. But it all started with her thinking right but or the girl is embarrassed and this happens a lot I've done this they're embarrassed to admit to like their friends and family that they made a bad decision on this dude so they'll stay in a relationship and keep up that facade that but also once the girl has made that physical investment with the guy uh the guy is then able to get other girls easier do other have the behaviors to make her perceive his value to be higher. So we we've established that a woman has to perceive the guy's value to be higher than her. Would you agree with that? So with that said, how can any woman say that for a relationship to be successful, the guy has to be more into the girl? Obviously, the girl girl has to think that guy is the best she can do and he's got she's got to feel like she's chasing him a little bit every day because if the guy thinks that, if he doesn't, if he lets her think that, the relationship is done. I'll tell you that is a myth that came from our parents' generation. Okay? A lot of women will tell you as a woman, always find a guy that's a little bit more into you. I can't tell you how many older women told me that throughout my life, but I will agree that it is a myth. Yeah, it is because women are just not attracted to a guy that's more into them. Yeah, I mean that will agree with that. It is a it's a we were talking about like early onset disgust for men. The thing that can get a girl disgusted with the guy is if he's too into her, especially before she's like obsessed with him because it's not an alpha male quality. And women who are looking for and I don't care what you say and you know I've said this a million times. I don't care I will say this loud and clear to everyone. I don't care if you are the biggest feminist ever. I don't care what woman you are. At the core, you are looking for an alpha man. And if you are not, you have just not met the right guy yet. Like, it's totally true. It's so funny for her to say all this and she's right about all this. But then when I was trying to holler at her friend, she was like, "No, you need to show her how interested you like. Get out of here. There's a window where you need to. There's a window. " I showed her I was interested. I I insulted her. Listen, she played both of us. I insulted her and she was into me and then I just acted interested and she was not into it. Okay, listen. I can't believe it's still happening. I did. I learned a lesson on that one. You proved me wrong on that. Yeah, I did. She played both of us. Women cannot admit these things that see misogyn well you can now. And we agree 17 episodes. If you watch the beginning episodes, I argue misogynist men are not made because girls hurt them. Misogynist men are made because girls refuse to actually give advice on what attracts them. When they give guys advice on how to get them, look, it's attraction plus comfort equals intimacy for a woman. They will only tell you what makes them comfortable. They don't have the self-awareness to tell guys what actually attracts them. It's like a magician giving away tricks. You know what I mean? They can't they don't do it like Yeah. Well, they don't want it's not only that they can't do it, it's they don't want to do it because they that's one way they weed out guys. It's like, who's the guy who's going to do this without me telling him? The guy that's going to be attracted to them knows what is what will get her attracted. Even if she tells him, I want you to do this, and this, he's got to have strong enough to frame to say, no, I don't care what you say. I'm going to do it my way, and you're going to come into my frame. That's the guy she's going to be attracted to. Just by virtue of him having to ask her what to do is unattractive. Do you know why we like that though? And it's I've talked to a lot of girls about this lately because of current scenarios and different things. If a guy isn't like an alpha male and for me, I need like a serious alpha male because I am like a strong female. We run over them and we don't like that because like I know personally for me if it's a guy that's not like that where he's going to like hold frame. This recently happened with me and me and D too. I was acting so out of character. Like I was just acting like someone I'm totally not because I did not know how to navigate in a situation where you know like he wasn't like you know leading the situation and women don't want that you know they want a man who will lead 100%. Yeah. Oh believe me. I don't care if you are the biggest feminist in the world. And I don't know like when like we read some of these comments that women make some of these things why they just Wait, so what was this comment? Hold on. Tell cuz I didn't even see any of these comments. I'll pull it up. It's just like cuz there was some guy going back. Like when you can tell you can say facts with stats backing it

up and a woman still will not they'll still give you push back and get mad like oh you're chauvinist or oh you just choose women wrong or all these things they can't take accountability or responsibility for themselves. I'm going to read the comment in a second. Yeah. I want to hear. Okay. So is this where it started? This is where it started. This is on a video where Shav is talking and we're all talking about women being branch climbers and you're stating women cannot be alone. So yeah, I loved at the end of the video where you actually did it. We actually did it. Okay, so Jess X503 says, "Really? Cuz I'm 39 and never needed a man for anything. " Oh my god. So listen, she gets a couple I still don't know what that tire thing meant. We were trying to figure it out. Someone said, "How them tires doing? " I don't know. But someone I think she's 39. It's like she's worn out. Yeah, she's worn out. She's gonna run through. Oh, that makes sense. Um, user 7 billion numbers said, "Are you the only woman on this planet self-centered much? " And then we responded from Shav. Shav's response was monkey branching, you want to talk about, is an evolutionary adaptation. Women develop. Well, I got to read the whole thing. Hold on. Monkey branching. It's like a boldfaced term in a textbook. He uses Well, he uses all these big words. Monkey branching is an evolutionary adaptation women developed for survival to increase the chances of passing their DNA on because women have a much shorter reproduction life than men. Hence why the bi biological clock starts usually late 20s. Monkey branching gives women the best chance to find a partner, reproduce and reproduce as opposed to long periods of being single and alone. And so last sentence, hold on. So yes, women do need to monkey branch. Don't take it up with me. your ancestors. where you got it, Chev argue with that. Say it's not true. She didn't. That was journal. What journal was that? What scientific journal was that from? Did you It's a uh evolutionary psychology. Hold on. Let's see what um there's one more argument and then we'll move on from this. Someone said facts live through or Isa Isaac said, "Oh, Isaac, I get it. Facts lived through this and seen buddies have this happen to them. " Okay. And then a girl jumps in and says, "Yet y'all are single. " And of she Like it's a bad thing. Like being single is a bad thing. No, for you to be single, for a woman to be single is a bad thing because you intrinsically know your value is tied to your ability to have a family. So single for you is a bad thing. Being single for a man is not a bad thing. Yeah. Okay. So was there who was this? Was there a guy in there? So I'm about to jump into it. So, the person Murdoch responded with, and I think he's got like a picture of Michael Jordan on I like the cut of this guy's jib. Yeah, listen. Murdoch says, "What's wrong with being single? Unless you're a woman and therefore can't handle single being single just like you said. " Then she comes back with, "Who said anything about being single being wrong? Where does it say that? " And then, "Statistics show that women thrive with a supportive family and supportive friends. Men are not needed. " Okay, Murdoch jumps back in. You replied saying, "Yet y'all are single. " as if being single was a bad thing and an insult, proving exactly what the man was saying about women not being able to be alone. Being single for a man isn't negative like being single for a woman is. A single woman is like an unemployed man. So, Murdoch continues with no response. Women can thrive all they want, but they hold on. I got to hit more because it's long. Women can thrive all they want, but they will never be happy and content as they happily Wait a minute. they will never be as happy and content as a happily married wife and mother. So basically he's saying that they will never be happier than they will be as a happy wife and mother. And you know I think he makes a good point here is he always says happily it's not because I know a lot of people are not happy married but if you're happily you know being a mother is the highest calling a person can have and the most important job on the planet and any woman who tries to act like they are more happy alone than having a husband and kids is just lying. last checked men were needed to have kids. And then she writes, "In this economy, that's illogical. " And that's it. There's a whole bunch more comments on that. Murdoch guy. We should have this Murdoch guy on the podcast. In this economy, that's illogical. Since when have women ever used logic to do anything? Yeah. I think she just had nothing to say back to that. And that's kind of where she went with it. You know, my whole point is women push back give push back to things that are just factually true. They're biologically true. And my point is like look, the guys that are naturals that are able to they know how to talk to girls, they have abundance with women. Yeah. They don't need to hear this. But it's average men that don't have a lot of options with women. Like women that give push back and keep pushing these Disney fairy tales are the ones who are going to create misogynists one day because they're going to believe

what you're saying and go treat a girl perfectly and telegraph interest and all these things and they're going to keep getting burned. So just women don't try to mislead men. Just don't say anything. Get like keep your opinions to yourself. It's like the fish or the fisherman thing, right? Because apparently, listen, I'm proof. I tried to give Dan advice, although she was a bit of like a weird situation. No. Yeah, she No, she was actually the most stereotypical situation. Yeah, she wasn't a weird situation. She was like, I guess I learned my lesson. Can we Can I just give a quick like are we able to talk about it? Like, yeah, she was obviously an attractive girl. Yeah, they know this. You you did. And actually that bring I want to think about another thing I was kind of debating with my girlfriend the past couple days. You asked her out on a date very much like a gentleman. Took her out on a romantic after he said a douchebag thing on her date. Well, he had to do something to attract her to want to go on a date. So anyway, that's not why you did it though. Well, anyway, you took her on a date and were a complete gentleman. Texted with her, got to know her, and she just ghosted you. Yeah. after 8 days and 800 text message in the middle of a conversation, you just stopped talking to me. You know, in hindsight, I think she was trying to like be a dick. Like punish you for what you did. Like I feel like she was faking it all along to us. She was telling me that she liked him and [ __ ] She was sending me his birthday video and like I don't think she would have gone in her life. I think she did like him. So that that was another thing. Should we call her that? That was another thing I was kind of uh ar not arguing but discussing with my girlfriend was she was talking about how like men should ask a girl out when they like her and take her out on a date and this and that. I'm like dating that usually doesn't lead to like a successful relationship. Dating is something women want to do to get validation and free meals from a guy. But there's guys that have to take girls out on dates to get with them. And then there's the guys that can just meet him in the first night. Like if a girl's ever slept with a guy the first night they've met in not a dating situation. Why would any guy want to take her out on a date? Agreed. And have to quarter and when some guy got you for zero the price and I'm having to take you out and pay for dinner like it's just not a good deal. But how do you know that about a woman? Well, you have to get to know him. Like you have to talk to her and get you know. But if you don't go on dates, how That's why I don't hook up with girls first night. Yeah. Cuz I need to get to know them. And if they're doing that with every guy, then I don't want it anyways. But in a scenario where like especially in the world now, you have to use like dating apps. Well, you don't have to. It's hard to meet people. It is hard. But I mean, yeah, for sure. I have to go on dates because that's if you're using an app, you have to go on dates. But the what to your point, I'm not going to dinner. Like I just met you on an app. I haven't met you in person. I'm not going to dinner. Yeah. Like I hate when women are like, "Ugh, coffee. " Like don't say coffee. It's like, "Well, you want me to take you on some romantic getaway? Like I don't [ __ ] know you. " I don't like women though. Well, that's what I'm saying. I just think like you think they're entitled. Like it's like the best way to ask me out is by asking, just not coffee, like, you know, stuff like that. A typical standard date is just not an environment that's conducive for the man to like be in a position to make the girl feel truly attracted to him. I mean, it's a situation to make her comfortable, but comfort can't come before attraction. She has to be attracted to you first before comfort is valuable to her. And I just think you build attraction not in a dating situation. So, how do you build it then in a scenario in most of the world? So, listen, usually through social circle, it's you know, you have mutual friends you meet in situations that's more organic instead of that anymore though. No social circle. So I think if you told most girls, "How did you meet the last four or five guys you dated seriously? " They'd probably say, "Well, it was a friend of a friend. We met in a It's not a guy just came up to me, I didn't know him, he generated a conversation and asked me out on a date. We went on x amount of dates and we fell madly in love. " That's not us. It's either social circles or online dating at this point. Yeah. like and I think it's usually most girls would say the guys that I met we had mutual friends we were in the same social circle and attraction was built before we actually went on a date. Well, you have to build attraction before the date cuz otherwise why do you even want to go on it, you know? Well, girls want to go on it because they get attention and they get free meals. I know. No, I have a friend. I told you I have a friend who literally would say to me like I'm going out purposely to get a free meal. Why would you put yourself through a date for a free meal? It's like you have to go and talk to this person that you're not interested. That sounds like hell to me. The few dating app dates I did go on like back when I was first moved here and was single. I mean, come on. M was one of that's how bad they were. You know what I mean? Like they were not good. God, that would be a bad day. I got shab out of it. And you? So

um that's so funny. Like what a bad day. Did you guys hear that? I beeped me beep his name on the last episode. Did you hear Did you guys listen to the one I posted yet? I uh yeah heard the beep was because I think dates are just something girls do when they're getting out of a relationship with a guy that they're not over yet to try and help them get over it to get attention from other guys. But when they actually meet a guy that they can build like real attraction with and want to be with like it doesn't happen. dating is just what they do to try and get over an ex to me like so I don't disagree and I think that there is one period of every woman's life where they do want to be alone and that like if they just have had enough listen no hear me out chef Je older women hear me out when you get cuz listen I was a self-confessed branch climber I might have been the biggest I will I was a freaking branch climber say that again I was a branch climber so I was not incorrect in saying that women are branch cleans. No, I was I listen I was like from this one to this one. But then there just became a point in my life where like everything just kind of crashed out and I was like sick of making the same mistake. It was like I always say I was dating the same guy just in different fonts, you know, and I needed to like break that cycle. And what age were you though when you broke that cycle? It was old. It was like after I got married. Like I had no choice but I guess to kind of actually I should say I had really no choice. Here's what I would say. If men want to date mature women that have gotten to that point, then you don't have to worry about that. The men that want to date women that are in their early to mid20s that's not have to deal with this type of like psychology. I don't know any guy that would want to date a girl in their early to mid20s. I don't know too many of them that think girls that age are hot. But if they do want to date women, they're going to have to be It doesn't matter what age the woman women at the core and men at the core are all the same. At some point in their life, every girl goes through an I want to be alone period. Listen, they do. It's usually when they get to the age where they realize where their biological clock starts ticking and they realize, okay, I need to get I need to find a good man and I need to settle. And they what they do in their mind is they settle because when they were at their hottest years, they keep going after jerk and toxic guy and narcissist and that's what they go after when they are in their prime fertility years. So why would what's the incentive for men to not be those kind of guys? Wait it out. Yeah. Why would a guy want to be the the guy that the girl just gets with after she's been at her most selective period when she's out of her prime and now wants to settle for a guy? No. The best time to get a woman is right when they're in that. So, when I say the alone period, I'm not saying that during that time period they're not thinking about being in a relationship wanting like that goal isn't settling down. I'm just saying they're taking a minute. They're going to the gym. They're reassessing their value and trying to up their own value. A girl may go through a want to be alone period, but I guarantee you if during that if a day into that going alone period the right guy walked in the room, she can forget all about the alone. Usually does happen. No, I totally agree. And I'm not saying like I said at any point that they're like, I will not be in a relationship. I hate, you know, it's not like that. It's like myself a woman saying, I do not want to be in a relationship. I want to be alone right now with I'm just saying you just said that though. Like no, you're not hearing me. But if a woman says like, "All right, I just need to go be single and be by myself for a while. " That's like a man saying, "I just need to take a while and not work and not have a job and just be unemployed. " I'm not saying women are like they're basically just not going to actively pursue it, you know, and they're going to focus. This could be like a [ __ ] twoe period. I'm not saying but I'm saying that's like a man saying, "I'm not going to actively pursue employment. " It's like a man saying, "I'm going to switch careers and like literally look into another career and better myself a little bit. " Like every woman goes through that and that's a fair makes himself better, you know? Like, and women call it like it's like the waiting to exhale moment. Like when it happened to me, I cut my hair short. I, you know, went to the started CrossFit. I did not short short, but like whatever. Every woman you just sort of like power bob, you know, pivot. I started, you know, that's when I really got heavily into the gym and like assessed you assessed your value and make sure that you are dating. You had already had a kid by that time, right? Like you've not when it first No, I was in my 20s when it first time period. I mean like weeks when you're like in your 20s, but at no point was I like I don't I'm not dating a guy at all. And that's when I met somebody during that time period. Yeah. No, that is t that is typically when you meet someone too. I mean, guys and girls, like I think, you know, the harder you're looking for it, usually the harder it is to find something that actually works. Like, yeah, because when you're looking for it so hard, you're liable to get into something fast

just because it feels good in the moment. But if you're not looking for it, you're more selective. That's why a lot of times people find stuff when they're not when they least expect it. Because when you're being more selective, then the right thing comes along, you can identify it. And women get like approached all the time. So, like during this time period, you know, I had dozens of opportunities to date people, but I guess here's what they do, though. Here's what I guess. You're right. I was a little Here's what they do, though. Women are always getting attention, but you are comparing the guys you're getting attention from your ex, who if you were that obsessed with them, you perceive him to probably be a high valued guy, and you're and they don't measure up to him. The only way a girl actually can get on and move on from that is if a guy that they perceive of having higher value than their ex. Like the only time a girl can just be okay and not want to be taken out on dates and get attention is if the guys just don't measure up to the guy who alpha widowed her. Yeah. Or she's trying to level herself up to another level. But yes, you're absolutely right. There was a time per that time period when I was ready to enter the dating world again. I did. So, like saying out loud, I've never dated a whole bunch of guys at the same time. I had a roster. I'll never forget it because my interns were like keeping track on a whiteboard of them and voting on which ones, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to really play the field. And like during that time period, they in my head, they were all getting compared to my ex. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And that's what that's why most girls end up always going back to an ex until they meet a guy. That's why I'm saying they can't be single. They will they don't ever like lose feelings for the their last series boyfriend until new feelings for a higher value guy comes in and kind of pushes those feelings out of the way. They'll always linger and they'll always think, "Ah, should I go back? " Like, I haven't met anybody that compares to him. Maybe I should just go try it again. Even though it didn't work out the last 20 times we did it, maybe it'll work out the 21st time. And but that's what I say. they they can't be single because they're it's the emotion that drives y'all. And I don't know why women get so mad when you say this. Like, let me ask you a question. I guess it's kind of um twofold. So, I agree with you. I truly feel that women always have some guy on their mind. Even during that time period where they might be taking a step back and not actively dating someone, you know what? a lot of times they are going to the gym and all that to raise their bar as a like haha to your ex like almost like a revenge like okay you broke my heart I'm gonna look even better. So there's always a goal during that alone time for sure. But so do men do that do you think? And let me explain. Do you think a man always has some kind of woman on his mind at all times or do you think a man can actually be alone for a little bit and have no woman on his mind? I don't know if it's just the zolaf, but I can tell you I definitely don't have a woman on my mind at all times like at all. But now, so like I think over 35ish kind of you change a little bit, but prior 20s. Hold on, let me see what he says. Yeah, probably 30s. But prior to that, do you think that you always had some kind of some someone you were chasing? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. A man can genuinely not have the desire to be in a rel a committed relationship with somebody. Now, the same way women need attention and validation from a man, a man has physical desires that he might always think about in acting, but he doesn't mean he wants to be in some committed relationship. So, yes, men might have a girl that they want to hook up with or just be physical with no interest in being he genuinely wants to be alone. and he doesn't want to deal with the stresses or the responsibility of a relationship. A woman always needs to get validation from some man. And men that men don't do that to get validation. They just that's their need. That's how men are made. The fact that you think they always need to get validation though because I kind of disagree a little bit on that. They if they're not getting attention from a guy, they're asking like what's wrong with me? Why? Why are a guy like their self-esteem is not as good? Like a woman is only as strong as the men in her life make her feel. And if she doesn't have some kind of man giving her validation, that might be her dad, brother, but it's got to be some man usually. And it might be an ex. It's not only validation, it's a feeling of safety, too. like every woman needs. So, speaking of what I was just saying about women needing like a sense of security and stuff um situationships, we talked about this before, but we ended up not being able to use that episode because the camera. So, let's talk about like Well, are you done talking about your situation with your girlfriend? Um like the current state of that like situationships, hookup, all of that. Do you think that if a man is like wanting

to not be in a relationship but also not wanting to be alone, that's when he goes to like the situationship thing? So men also have like a little bit of not wanting to be alone physically. I don't think there's too many men that just go out like I'm looking for a serious girlfriend and like because those type of guys that energy attractive is unattractive to girls. Girls want the guy who's the unfinished product who doesn't want to be in a relationship commit to him. They want to make him change to commit for them. Oh yeah. A guy that's sitting there going out there like I'm looking for my wife. Unless it's in a religious context. If we're talking about like strong Christian men meeting women at church, that's a whole different story. I'm talking about like more in the culture where we're discussing. A guy that goes out and is like, I'm looking for a girlfriend to be committed to probably doesn't have a bunch of other options. I'm just looking for a wife to love. Yeah. When you were ready to like settle down and stuff like that's not true. you were ready at a point in your life where you're like ready to settle down, start building. But I also consider myself like a Christian. I'm I try to make my relationship life around like my Christian belief. Also, here's the thing. You can be ready to settle down and stuff, but you can still it's like even if you're a guy who's like, "Hey, you know, even if you're ready to have a family, you can still if that conversation comes up like, you know, yeah, you know, at one day I I would definitely love a family. It's got to be with the right person. I'm not get, you know, you can still give the vibe that like, yeah, I want a family, but like I don't know if I want it with the next girl that I meet. Like, I don't know if it's you. The guy, the guy can never be the one pursuing the labels or the relationship. It's got to be It's always got to come from the woman. The woman has to be the one to always say, "What are we? When are we taking the next step? " If a guy doesn't say, "What are we? " Yeah. Well, I think the the what are you looking for in dating apps and that conversation is a little bit weird because it is forcing you into like a box like if I was to meet a certain guy like that I didn't see a future with but you know maybe we had fun. I think it depends on the person. You can't just be like I am looking to get married so the next one in line is running. One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was younger is I thought, "Okay, there's good girls and there's bad girls, and me being a good, virtuous man would just automatically get me a good girl. " When I didn't realize that both bad girls and good girls have the same attraction triggers. They are going to be attracted to the same guy. And it's not going to be the guy coming in needy for a relationship. they are still going to be attracted to the guy who doesn't want to make a commitment, who doesn't give them attention, that they have to chase a little bit at the beginning. And I know women can comment and say toxic. Don't blame men. Blame yourselves cuz y'all are the one that's fueling men to do this because you keep rewarding that bad behavior. Let me help define that for you so that women aren't arguing in the comments. There is definitely though a window in there where you have to be the nice good guy. But it's after they're interested, it's like once you get past what you're saying. What I'm saying, yeah, of course. Once a girl is abs once she's made the decision, okay, I'm obsessed with this guy. I want to be with him and she has made that decision. Then yeah, she wants him to be nice. But it's like if he has to be distant and kind of and and sigh on the side of like being a jerk a little bit and not committing to her and treating her not great and that's what gets her to want to be with him. What is his incentive to change and be nice like once she wants that? What's the incentive for a guy? Because the toxic guy, it's going to be the same result. the girl is going to stick around. And even like my girlfriend said this, like it is harder for a girl to leave a toxic relationship than to leave a healthy relationship. 100%. So if that's the case, what is the incentive for a man to want to be in a healthy relationship if the woman's obsession level is going to she's not going to be able to leave? Like no guy wants to get left. I think the reason uh a woman has a harder time leaving a toxic relationship than a good one is because usually in the toxic relationship usually uh there's like that emotional uh manipulation that I was talking about, you know, like, oh, you can't leave me. You like I'll kill myself. Like that type of stuff. That's why it's so hard for a woman to leave a toxic relationship. There's a lot of I could never be like that, though. that guy. I wasn't saying that. I was saying more like you give them a little bit then take it away. make her. It's like cat string play. Don't give the cat the whole ball of yarn and it'll get bored with it. Not but you give it a little string, it'll keep chasing string. For sure. That's how women are. Like you give them a little bit and they're going to You just relate women to [ __ ] catnip. No. I say cat string. You know, if you dangle Yeah. Like uh if you give them a little bit and give them, you know, some good moments here and there, they will cling on to those good moments

and for years to try and get them back. And well, I think what and I think what I was saying like there's there there's like three types of guys when it comes to like you know where they are with wanting a relationship and women are only attracted to two of them. There's one type of guy is the guy who doesn't want a relationship. All right. She's attracted to him because I want that guy to want a relationship with me because he doesn't any. And then there's then there's the guy Exactly. like every romcom that's ever been made. And then there's uh or mainstream romcom. Then there's the guy who wants a relationship but doesn't want it from her her. Exactly. Or or doesn't want it yet from her. You need to prove it. Got to chase him. And so like then there's the guy who wants the relationship and he wants it with her. he want like the first thing he tells a girl on the first date is that he's looking for like that's the guy they're not attracted to. So yes, you can want a relationship and be attractive to a woman right away. Exactly. So if if we've established that's true, what is the man's incentive to all of a sudden once she gets into you, if like if it's 6 months you've been distant, not giving her commitment, not making her priority, hanging out with other women, making her uncomfortable, making her uncomfortable and that is what made her obsessed with you enough to want to get a commitment and now she wants you to be nice to her. What's the guy's incentive to just change all of a sudden? If it took one type of behavior to get your feelings to that level, why would he change that type of behavior? That's what confuses men. Yeah. And that like we're getting comments. Yeah. I mean, someone said, "My god, how old are you? " 12. Uh, no. I'm 13. Did a woman say that? Mhm. Yeah. Like I looked what her name is. I thought at first it was, you know, she said, "How how old are we? " 12. No, I'm not that old. I'm like 10. I have like the maturity of more of like a I'm more than nine. It could have been something. I mean, I'm going to watch the comments in real time. I'm in more of a 9 to 10 year old maturity range. I fully expect women to be mad at this and but they're deflect. They are the ones that create this type of behavior from men. If women actually wanted good men that treated them well and respected them, then if women came together and said, "We're only going to reward good men that respect us with uh sexual access and reproduce with those good men. " Then you all your sons would be good men. Listen, I don't disagree. They could change it in one generation, but women will always be attracted to what they can't have. And as long as that happens, men are going to do what they have to do to get what they want. So I will jump in as I'm editing the podcast clips and I go back to the first couple where you and I was like no that's not true and like you know and then I would come back and be like okay maybe you're right just like a little bit. So I definitely think that women might not want to admit what you're saying is true but I think as a whole it is very true at some point in every woman's life. So, I think that there's some women who might have like me who got past that a little bit and then I'm like, I would never do that. But then I think about it, I'm like, "Oh my god, I did that like up until last year. " You know? So, I just think women aren't being Well, I think when they say something, they say what they want to believe would be true, but and sometimes I think they actually could pass a lie detector test and believe their own lies. Oh, for sure. But it's not if you take the words, if you just don't listen to any words a woman says about anything and just pay attention to their actions. Look at the last few guys they were with. Yeah. Don't listen to their words. It's self-explanatory. In fact, we even have to talk about it. It's like it's okay. We know there's no Santa Claus. like you know like it it's not even a it's but you know women give so much push back and get so mad about this stuff that that's those are the ones who are creating future misogynists cuz they probably have 10 amazing good guys that would give them the commitment that they want that they don't even pay it they don't even notice those guys they only notice the bad boy the toxic guys that and that's what they're attracted to like I think that they should examine themselves and why they don't pay. They don't notice guys that are actually good guys that have good intentions with them. Well, it's not that we don't like good guys and nice guys. It's that, and again, I don't care if you're the biggest feminist in the world. This is true for every freaking woman. It's the alpha male beta thing. Like, there's a fine line. You can be a nice guy, but you can do it in an alpha male way that's attractive. It's like the command present. Here's the analogy I use. If like you're playing golf, Dan, you you're a big golfer now. If you're trying to golf, are you really playing golf? Oh, yeah. So So, so if you're trying to get the holes right here, and the girl is the goal. The hole the hole. Can we make another analogy? All right. The girl The hole is the goal. Yeah. Yeah. The So, you're trying to get in the hole. Yeah. Everything before is a lake.

So if you put it any short at all, it's going in the water and you lose that hole. Yeah. But it's got hundreds of yards of green behind it. Okay. So the water is being too nice. Like too nice. The green is being overly uh an [ __ ] a jerk, you know, maybe a little toxic. You can lay it up too long and be too much of a jerk, but you can still birdie that hole. Yeah. You But you can't if you at all and you're getting in the water, you're getting penalized. You're you lost your ball in the water. You have no balls left. Any professional golfer that's playing a hole like that, do you think he's going to try and maybe shoot it long like as opposed to not risking coming up too short cuz yeah, it is a fine line and I think you do have to know how to walk it. But if you come off too nice, even a centimeter, that ball's going in the water and you lose the hole. We have like a good mix right now. We have to actually We should start saying hi to some of the people that are on. We have like a good mix of men and women. So, I'm curious if you guys agree with Shave. Let us know in the comments. There's nothing to disagree with. Like cuz I mean I think that for the most part like you guys are right in ways, but I also think that I don't know. You know, it's just I'll tell you my experience. I feel like Yeah. I feel like you're the in between of us. So, let's I'm going to tell you my experience in the last three and a half years since I've been single. Happily single. But women can't be like that. Just men, right? Yeah. Um I've uh That's right. Come on. If there's ladies listening, please drop in the comments, can you be happily single? No woman's ever been happily single for three and a half years. Yeah. Never. It's never happened. Not happily. Um Okay. So, my experience in three and a half years. All right. Mhm. I've gone I've probably gone out with let's just say in three and a half years I've gone out with 20 dates. Some of them have you know gone further. So let's say let's say more dates maybe 25 dates in three and a half years. 25 30 let's say from there maybe 10 I've gone out with like multiple times and let's say from there maybe five or six I've gotten physical with like in you know in the last three and a half years. All right let's just say that. Okay. Out of the 30 total that I've gone out with in three and a half years, there's only been one that like I felt like, oh man, like I really want this to go. Like there's only one that like I've gotten a little nervous. flaw like or like I felt I'm gonna tell you that I felt like you know almost like I need to like all right how am I going to approach this to you know and that's the one girl that didn't like me and then the 29 others like I was nice to like I wasn't a dick but I just I was just like confident. I didn't care like I you know like I didn't look at them talking about my friend. Yeah. I didn't I didn't look at them like they were something to achieve. Like they all the other 29 I could have been married to any of them out. You know, you know what the women are going to say? They're going to say, "Well, those were just the wrong girls or like you picked them poorly. " That's what they're going to say. Yeah. No. Well, I'm just saying that could be true. I'm just No, I'm just saying that the 29 some of them are great girls. I'm just saying the 29 girls that I just like felt no pressure, didn't care, was just like whatever have all been obsessed with me. the one that I was like kind of want like was like wanted it like I have to get the dirt on this because I feel like you guys aren't I guys I'm just saying there's been one girl that I went out that I was like ignore the words. Pay attention to just the actions. Ignore the words. She liked him after he took her out and was nice. Did she say she liked him or did she act like she liked him? She said she That's what I'm saying. Take the words out after he took her out. I don't care. I don't care what a girl says. Pay attention to what she does. She ghosted. She ghosted me. But she didn't ghost you after you did the nice stuff directly. She was still chill with you. Something happened. I'm telling you. And I guarantee it had something to do with another competitor. It I guarantee And if I had made her more uncomfortable, then she may have not gone back. She may have been so interested in me, she wouldn't have gone back. If I had made her insecure, if I had made her uncomfortable, like I did with my first comment when she wanted to go out with me. If I kept doing that, she probably would have avoided. I guarantee you, listen, I feel like she was trying. I guarantee you her ghosting you had nothing to do with her saying, "Uh, I'm just need to be single for a while. Be it something to do with her getting attention from another guy, maybe an ex, maybe something else happened. " It 100% had to do with another guy. Girls don't just all of a sudden get the strength to just But it just showed you like the second even if we I think maybe in the beginning she and I cared the same amount. Like even if she was into me, we cared the same amount. And look at what happened. In all other 29 girls I've

gone out with, they've cared more than me. And I could have dated anyone. And I do want to say one thing I cared as much as like we talk about like game and theory and all these things. The the black belt level of game like the end goal is to be able to meet somebody, fall in love with them, and get married and have a family. That's what game should be leading to. It shouldn't be leading to men taking advantage of women. like as a Christian, I these are things that I wanted to learn. So I because I genuinely had good intentions with every girl I've ever dated, but I couldn't I didn't understand the concept of wait, they don't want you to be nice to them like the fairy tales have told us. So the mastery once you've mastered the game, the mastery is knowing how to get in a committed relationship and how to treat that girl with respect and have a fulfilling disgusted. Well, yeah. how what behavior you can have so she doesn't get disgusted with you either. Like but to be able to be in a committed relationship and happy with one person and have a family and uh get married that is the black belt level of game and not a lot of people can get there. I think it gets a bad rap because we're sitting there talking about the courtship phase and unfortunately in the courtship phase girls you have to do some I'm 38 and it happened to me you know like I do think you for the like for the most part I will agree with you guys but I really do believe that there is a small window in there where you have to be that nice guy but the alpha nice guy not the like desperate but like we said it's such a fine line not a lot of guys know how to walk that fine line and if you lay it up short at all, it's going in the ball's going in the water. So, why not put a little Well, it's like Yeah. If you fall on the side of too nice, there's a 100% chance you won't get her. Yeah, agree. If you fall on the side of too much of a dick, you still have a chance. It's not You still will get her. If you go too much of an [ __ ] though, you're not like a high value woman's like during that window period. What's a high value? Well, it depends on what you mean by asking me this. a woman who like has a [ __ ] ton of highv value men chasing her like a career, you know. But so you're saying if you if a guy if a guy's too much of an [ __ ] then she won't still get with him. There's a line there's a window where you of course like if you like abuse her of course like after she expresses interest you have to you have to like give like a little bit. But can you at least admit that before she actually would walk away she'll give it'll it could drag out years. No, they Not a super high value. If she's made a physical investment into that relationship with that guy, which usually is what girls do with guys that don't treat him right at the beginning, she will try and see that through and make it work. Stay a lot longer than they should by far. And the only way they actually move on from it is if they get attention from a guy that's more high value than the guy that they're dealing with is that they don't just they'll never just this guy's treating me like crap, I'm going to go be single. I wish they did. though a lot of that is pride that women don't want to like admit I made a shitty mistake again I failed relationship again they don't you know it could be that's why people shouldn't post all over social media and they should soft launch guys you know so I think I don't know I do think yeah it's like you made your bed by posting how great your relationship was on social media you wanted everyone to see it some of that is pride but I think you know you get a woman who's like past her 20s like whether she's in her 30s or 40s and she's a high value woman she's got a great career. She, you know, all of that. She's very um like emotional, intelligent, looking for a guy to lead. Every woman can be a high value woman in her 30s and 40s like you with like I'm serious. Like they don't all age better like you did. Thanks, Chev. But that's why I'm saying I know most guys don't think women in their early 20s and mid20s are attractive, but if they do think they're attractive, that's the same behavior. They don't that's the they they're going to have to learn some game to be able to I'm not saying that, but like let's ask Dan, like I'm not saying that a majority of dudes wouldn't date a younger woman, but I don't think every man would like chase and purposely pick that or that I don't know, Dan, what's your take? A girl, you think all things considered, considered are the same? You have take a girl who's 35 versus a girl who's 25. The guy's not going to pick the girl who's 25. It's conversation. In my experience, I will say that I've gotten along better with women in their 30s recently than I have. I just haven't had as much in common with women in their 20s. But yeah, I mean, if uh you know, if someone was like 25 and they acted like the women that I meet that are 35, then I'd be attracted to that. I don't know. I mean, so much of it depends on like personality with me right now. I hate to tell you, but the majority of guys don't purposely seek a woman out based on age in their early

20s now. They have to be hot. So that's No, no. Yes, they So, so do women purposely seek out guys that have money and a career and a like bright future? Oh my gosh. They don't seek out You also have lived a different life cuz you played in the NBA. You've been around different situations, you know. What situation does a girl not look at a guy and pursue a guy that has a job, a career, can provide and protect? It they pursue connection. They're not necessarily gonna go get they might not they're not gonna have a connection with someone who's not you're not gonna have a guy could that's homeless on the street could be the nicest guy in the world. You're not gonna have a connection with them. Like the guy's got to have certain prequalifications. Search I'm not search based I'm not ranking them based on their money and like all that stuff. Same as he's not ranking them purposely seeking. Then what are you ranking them on? Interests. Like your interest is going to fluctuate based on the value ads he provides. Yeah. Not the amount of money he makes. So girls don't take the amount of money a guy makes into consideration. 20ome year old girls do, but as you get older, you don't. You're talking about the age of girls that their peak fertility years. I think it's I think it I mean it depend like there may not be a diff like they definitely want the guy to be stable. It may not a guy who makes 500 grand a year and a million and that it may not be a huge difference for them but like but they need to know that the guy is like successful you know and got his [ __ ] together and you know can provide you've also had a different life shav where a lot of guys wish they had your life but you know what I mean where you were busy for a lot of years of your life like playing basketball and [ __ ] so like in reality you're a lot younger you know than most people your age Because during those peak years, you were busy playing basketball. I didn't start dating. Dating didn't become a part of my life till I was at 25. So it would make sense that you were attracted to cuz you're at that life point that a lot of them are at because you spent those years where a lot of people would be like working in corporate America or whatever on basketball and you genuinely put basketball before women like you know not a lot of athletes can actually say that but yeah. So, I think that plays into it, too. And the average dude isn't also around models and beautiful women his whole life like you. Well, and a lot of people that you know if you're hanging out in you know this scene with like parties and clubs like then yeah you're gonna your experience is going to be that you meet a lot of women who are hanging around bars and clubs who are trying to find guys that are high value you know and uh like and so that's a certain type it's you know your experience is always shaped by like you know the sociological like you know status of where you're at you know like what the people you hang around, the places you hang around, that's going to um you know, but I think the universal truth is that the woman has to be more into it than the guy. It all comes full circle. I do. I think you win that fight, chef. I think Listen, when we disagree, it's all in fun. Actually, I think I' I've I admitted a lot of agreement in this episode. I went back and retook my former opinion. Yeah. I mean, your opinion that Diddy treated Cassie well is a little alarming, but that has been the MFM podcast. Thank you, guys.