Как мыслят миллиардеры.Тимур Турлов о новой цифровой экономике, фокусе и стратегии роста

Friends, hello everyone. At my place Timur Turlov, founder of the company Freedom. Timur, thank you very much for that came. Hello. But in fact, I have already said it personally, but I want to say again that ours the previous episode we recorded a little over a year ago, very much on influenced me. And we discussed this there the topic of decision making, yes, in situations of uncertainty when you have the game seems to have an incomplete picture. And here it is this very moment, it really is became so very important for me on throughout the year. You need to learn not

up to the ninth grade, not up to the eleventh grade. You need to learn throughout your life. How could it not be? lose what you have? Because You see that everything is changing. For in order to stay for a month, you need run. Giants, they are so much more the rich are so much more efficient, that all small and medium-sized businesses, it just remains somewhere beyond the edge. Nothing it didn't help us as much as the most bad crises that happened. What do you think is components of a strong brand? Yes, you know how to ask great questions. IN artificial intelligence in a huge The blue ocean is kind of all about it now They say. Nobody knows how to use it. The world and markets, they can change completely radically. There will be nothing left to which We're used to it. I still don't feel very good I like the idea of ​​scripts. In my understanding two more or less rational ways invest money in general. There is no peace will be nowhere. Generally optimistic. AND

Actually, now, a year later, we find ourselves in a situation where in our This game of uncertain data is everything it gets bigger and bigger with each passing day during the day. This applies to both the economy and politicians, in general, in absolutely any country of the world. And, in fact, the majority people who are watching us today, are wondering in general what to do, Where to run your business, how not to lose money, what currency to keep money in, where to invest in general, on what make money in today's world? From here the first question I want to ask start what your boss is thinking about today's realities, in today's here in this interrelated world, because I think about ecosystems and about big data and how in general markets change because that's how it is happens quickly. That is it uncertainty, it will definitely be there again more. That is, it feels like it is the very beginning of some really big ones changes that are happening. And this is it this is, well, a new technology the revolution that is happening, which in fact, and, along with which and political uncertainty is great it's coming one way or another. Well, that is to say besides, probably, all the adventures there, which we observe in general, as if military conflict, tension, and then populist politicians who come to authorities are practically everywhere, and there with somewhere it becomes a little different type more pragmatism, somewhere it becomes a little more populism, but technology everything is so fast and strong turn over, what, and, it would seem, what those things that generally take a very long time, there, I don’t know, they were built for centuries, stood like a huge building and it seemed like it was completely eternal the topic, and then six months pass, it there just isn't any. Well, I mean, you had some huge market share, for example, and six months later she's gone. Yes. That is and Never before have things moved so quickly happened. That is, digitalization, it actually allowed a huge the number of things to speed up. That is you can lose all your clients for one week. And this hasn't happened before either. was happening. This is purely technical. it was impossible. bygi take away to wait for something in a queue will eventually line up. And now here it is in the modern world it can happen absolutely instantly. So you can acquire a gigantic quantity clients very quickly and lose them too You can very quickly make a large quantity clients. And here we are, not quite there yet adapted to these speeds. We are not fully adapted to how much in total, and what things can be done at all. Because this acceleration, it is very visible in the financial sector. Well, the financial sector is generally big. all over the world, especially in developed countries countries. He's right there, some very it occupies such a significant part of GDP. That There we are, I don't know, there is more than 10% of GDP we often spend money on this provide financial services. That is, We are more than 10% of all resources is spent on redistribution. There sometimes 20% of resources. And this is very true many. And it feels like these banks, they are becoming now they can become significantly more efficient. They can on significantly faster, cheaper and more accurate make decisions, perform operations some. And on the other hand, on the bank with every year more and more piles up and more and more and more, more of some unusual ones responsibilities. Otherwise they should be there too. tax inspector and financial controller, and monitor compliance, I don't know if there is a sanctions regime or something else some things. That is, this one here functionality is perfect for financial organizations previously impossible and uncharacteristic. He is constantly increases. It increases with each passing day. a month, actually. When the regulator comes and says: "And we also want this this, and this, and this." We want to receive from you every second information in such and such a volume. And we want a direct connection to these databases. We want to know what's going on with the client. right away, when something happened. A send us this data, do it this is it. This is something you must find out for yourself, If you don't find it, we will punish you. Ah, but miraculously you have automation of these and those, on the one hand crazy increase in efficiency in sector that is happening to me It seems that few sectors have survived such a large-scale transformation, and so that there was such a high growth labor productivity, as in financial sector, but on the other hand they do not become less human, nor less expenses. And often even operations don't get much faster it is precisely because they become overgrown some kind of some kind of ton just regulatory burden on them. And on the other hand On the other hand, the government is very strong they understand that, well, they can't banks can do this work. A, and very, as if, and the simplest of all, and It is most logical to force those to work who, actually, can. Yes, yes. On

actually an interesting point about this quick restructuring, even This is literally the case we see yesterday and the day before, yes, with the GPT Open chat AI and with Deepsek, it's the same phenomenal thing. Wherever you go now, I'll go to any place an event is a category of people, who ask about the GPT chat there, about AI and they ask: "Here you are do you use it? How? "What?" That is, you understand that they are only trying dive into this industry, start use the tool, and it's simple Something new appears in a second. They We haven't mastered it yet, but we already need it master something new. And how would it be? affects everything. Ah, for a paradigm shift user of a person, b yes, that is, that how the markets react there and so on. Just yesterday Trump was telling us that we let's be leaders. Here comes some guy Chinese hatchery fund, which is 1 time cheaper, 1,000 times more effective new technologies. And so it seems to me that such a big, well, not exactly a problem, but the nuance that people face is that there is not enough speed for this one adaptation, because everything happens so fast that you just mastered it something new, but it is no longer relevant, you further, further, further. And in as a result, you end up in a situation where it seems to you that there are some super companies, super unique people, they have time, and you, like 99% of the population, you start to lag behind, to fall behind, fall behind and ask yourself: "Where am I? in general, will I be there in 5, 7, 10 years?" That's on in your opinion, the category of people who are here they still consider themselves here, why should they you need to pay attention today so as not to miss anything at all this round of new, powerful development? Listen, well You have to study constantly. Well then we need to sort these things out, we need to dig into this directly, but we need these to master technologies, because here this is the change, it really is colossal, and it will provoke an even greater productivity gap. That there are those who seem to catch this wave and these opportunities are used, they receive giant two-pointers over those who don't does. A huge advantage. And in it's, well, some kind of complicated technology, indistinguishable from magic, as he said someone. And this is how this magic is in every house, she, well, that is, it is clear, what those 99% of people don't understand how The iPhone is designed like this, actually. What's inside this magic box? it happens, as on at least some the principles it works on, people no longer understand. That is already so much technology has become more complex, which is the main a lot of normal people are pretty bad understands what modern is computers and how they are in general, how they are people came up with something. And this is pure magic for them. I don't know how it works. cellular communication? This is also pure magic for a huge number of people, even for a huge number of visa specialists is already magic because there is a lot of it vendors, and you kind of transform there into a craftsman who, a, connects wires, yes. Well, that is to say, in reality True, he has a magic wand, some spells, he reads them, there, he remembers what to do if fell off, but they all turn into admins who, by and large, do not, Well, again, they are no longer those who created the technology itself and not so much they really understand the whole thing already the magic that happens under the hood. But at the same time, when you, well, that is, I'm really inspired by that, that we seem to have a team, which is right on the cutting edge of this the waves are sitting, and we are coming up with some things, we come up with them first and well then there's always a kind of cool feeling when you're on I've climbed this wave, but I can't hold on any longer. It's always easier than climbing on it. A to climb on it, well, that's all there is to it, what we discussed in the last issue, then there is when you need it, actually, I was recently asked until what time the class needs to be studied and where better to act. But you need to study there

up to the ninth grade, not up to the eleventh grade. You need to learn all your life, really. And of course, there are tools for that, to satisfy my curiosity, there is a huge amount now. That is Everyone needs this natural curiosity People tend to do this one way or another. And if you are enough if you can do this or that otherwise satisfy your curiosity and, ah, that is, well, it's very important to this learn, actually, and try how I would have to look for this knowledge, dig for it. Now in the modern world, of course, but to master some new areas of knowledge are so easier than before. Well, that is, I have We've been there for probably the last few years I'm really deep into telecom for a half I was diving in, and for me it was like this. Well, you are inside the ecosystem, that is what implemented, right? Yes. Well, that is, we are we In general, they started building an operator there connections in Kazakhstan. aa in s, well, some dream, that is, there in Kazakhstan hundredth place in the world in speed fixed internet, there somewhere in fortieth place in speed mobile internet, and it seems that there is none there is no reason why you can't at least some thirtieth place call on a fixed number or on a mobile phone twenty-fifth. Yes. The difference is big. We have half of the households there doesn't have access to high speed there the Internet is still fixed. Well, that is, it seems that it is huge potential for economic growth if open it. Well, in the end, listen, this is still solvent quite a population that just needs provide a service that is ready for this pay for the service. That is, such a pure entrepreneurial opportunity. And in the market was deregulated, that is, in A lot has changed in Kazakhstan over the years the last 2 years. And we saw straight away, that, well, it seems like right now there was just an opportunity to come and this is to build. I'm probably for these

The last 2 years I've had the most fun, still figuring out new things for myself things, because you still burn out, when you solve the same problems, you are always like this, then they attacked you, then they attacked there, you fight back here, you fight back there, and you, too, really, from This makes you very tired. You in some I really want to do something there at the moment something completely different. Ah, and for me it is it was such a big discovery, when I started to understand the new lines businesses that we are interested in started watching. And when you are here you dive in and discover something new The world, it seems to me, is the biggest thing pleasure when you satisfy your curiosity. These are the ones now times when if there is within your professional activities opportunities, I'm here for my children now I always say, if ah well then how is it whoever you want to be, right? Listen, you can be alone today, in 2 years to be different, in 3 years be third. And moreover, it is necessary, apparently, learn to be like that, because, ah, the world will change so quickly that you won't be able to, I don't know, finish there university and just work hard until retirement Well, I don't know, I'll be a railroad worker. And even if you want to connect yourself with someone there logistics, then the entire industry itself will be change. You'll need to use drones. to do, then to do something else. AND this adaptability, this skill switch, ability to delve into and to understand something new for myself industries, to obtain knowledge, to extract some people, to build some new ones acquaintance. This is terribly fascinating. That is, when you, when you are actually in fact, you burn out in some of your main areas activity, it's just some kind of a breath of fresh air when you start to switch, actually between tasks, that is, and today we there, my colleagues and I are sorting out what's going on with us food delivery is in progress. And this is also a separate world, large and complex. That There are some miracle people there they do. And you wonder how business works grocery delivery from the store, well there with, I don't know, with some kind of dark how complex and tricky it can be and how much the approach to it should be differ from the approach you're taking What do you do in a bank when you build a digital one? bank. This is actually interesting a story about access to information in the plan that in reality I am for it I can track cases myself when I sit down at the computer and open some neuronka, I just start throwing it in there are no further questions there. He answers to you, he says: “Do you want me to open it up deeper? You say: "I want." And he went. And further you depth. depth, depth, and you find yourself in some space, studying the information that It's not clear why you practically need it, but you've already kind of caught this excitement, you start to delve deeper and find for something interesting for yourself. But I always have a question arises, I am asking it a few times I have already asked my guests once, who manage large businesses. Here look, we have what we have now it actually appeared like this popularized, let's say, for last year very much. That's all here these neural networks and everything that comes with them connected. Why do countries need this? It's clear. This is a huge, like new one a container to pump it into money, in order to receive advantage over other countries and so on further. And large companies, corporations they also, of course, invest in this gigantic amounts of money for obvious reasons, but from a business point of view, which one is for whom this is not their core activity, let's say so, and from the point of view user, and what do I see for myself? Regular users use this, well, like me. I don't know, instead of Google, let's say, instead of Google we now have, uh, like That would be great, we use it and much more interesting. Google for the rich. Well, yes, actually there already is free version. Well, how could he be? just more interesting. You can communicate with him as with a person. You ask him a question and start talking. But from the point of view

of, for example, business, I am constantly I hear headlines like these, like these highlights about what business will be like the AI ​​count is automated, there, optimized and so on and so forth. But when I actually ask the question business, I say: "Are you even in business? somehow you apply it like this, so that obviously there hasn't been one yet answer. Yes, we do it right here, right here. You are in your company do you apply these in some way? technologies so that it's not just people they use it instead of a search engine, but somehow in practice more clearly. Oh, well, look, first of all it's amazing well i'll start with myself, and this is amazing tool for making management decisions solutions. Well, that is to say, in what way management decision? This is generally about what you have to, uh, figure out some things that you're not always good at you are the best specialist. And, ah, well, that is, colleagues come to you and They say: "Look, you need to do this and that." Or do you tell them: "This is what I want to do so and so." What do you think about this? They tell you: "No, you can't do that. to do it, it can't be done like this, like this "No way." I started using GPT chat, firstly, as a secpinin practically on any critical thinking is like that, right? Yes. If something doesn't seem right to me logical in the answers of my employees, I can do it very quickly, literally meeting, literally within 15 seconds get some second opinion on this topic and ask: "Is this generally possible? or not?" Yeah. And it's not a fact that it will be very high quality answer. But if the chat GPT will definitely agree with my employees, then most likely we will do this We'll close the topic for at least some time or I'll try rephrase the questions before employees and in front of the model. But if GPT chat will answer me something in response not at all the same as what mine said Guys, I will definitely send this one. question for practice. And aa it surprised me, how different the tasks could be throw, starting with the fact that, well, no I know, there, guys, he comes to protect some kind of budget, that is, you have some things seem strange. You can, no I know, it's easy to take a picture of the screen with your own phone, the screen of my laptop, where they show you a presentation, and ask: "Listen, what is in general, as if some kind of industrial "There's a construction site there, 1 km away"? try to understand, well, that is, we in general how much is there, how much are there average it is close to that. Can you say some very quickly? pieces. Here they say: "Here we are, 1 km away. "It will cost so much to dig." I say, "Listen, okay, good, but How much will his shovels cost? dig? Well, you have some extreme, right? That is, we always, I am in I'm trying to find the limits of To in business. there is, well, probably, definitely can't cost more than a shovel. And then Let's see how much cheaper it is there. it will work out. Oh, and I'm one of them. funny questions that I asked myself It's quite tricky to calculate. You can tell him say: "Here, this is what I want to dig trenches of such-and-such length, such-and-such width, such and such depth." But by forces workers with an average salary in accordance with labor according to legislation, how many workers what will be needed, what will they have? labor productivity and how much do I have the cost price per kilometer will be there, if we send people to dig with a shovel. A It's cool that there is an answer to such a question You can get it really quickly. Well that is, he will calculate on average productivity of the worker, as if will be substituted into your equation, you tell him you dictate 15 seconds of some text, he as if he solves a problem for you and says: "Well like, I don't know, it will cost there 1,000 bucks. Yeah, you'll need it. there, I don't know, they will be in 20 workers dig a day, or at least one worker It will take 20 days to dig this same thing trench." And I used it very often him for disputes with his lawyers when lawyers came to me and said: "Here You need to register a new company here and that's why, that's why "It's definitely a foreign one." In this case, you will save on taxes. I sometimes reformulated the question and I found out that there was no difference that They're just very used to doing this. So. They do it there conditionally for there for residents of one country, and there in my case, for a resident of Kazakhstan, this is Well, let's say there's no such thing differences. That is, I can do it there. a Kazakh company for this use and save, I don't know, there $10,000 per year for maintenance new company that we created we will create for this. I'm not an expert, though. in fact, there in some place European or American legislation, but in asking a specific question can be said: "Is there Let's sort of figure out the advantage shortcomings, this is how we go and this is how it is. What taxes will there be in this case? Which will there be taxes in this case?" And you get, however, a professional one consultation, for which you will be charged at any cost a respected lawyer would take, well, at least a buck thousands and would say that he spent 2 hours with her cooked for you, even if he is very fast, generally cheerful and all He charges $1,500 an hour, that's all. it would have taken him some time anyway amount of time. How would GPT chat give You will receive a more accurate conclusion in 15 days. seconds almost free. I'm on the weekend I should have taken it from the database specific unloading. I had k it is accessible, but I, actually, I forgot how. I have when I once I learned to write SQL. requests, and it turned out that there Well, how can I put this together in Excel? I don't know. knew how. Well, you throw it to him like this your file with a piece of the database that you need to process it, and you say: "Listen, I want this to be counted like this sign." And she takes it and counts it. That You don't need to know how to write. request. You don't need to know SQL, those are not necessarily some kind of macros study. You may not even know the formula. in Excel. He will calculate everything himself. Tell me to him, what do you really need from this take the tables. Well, our lawyers are working hard and use LLM models, and, well, how would be specific, as a rule, specially trained on certain bases. They are there They don't cost much more than GPT chat. At This is much more accurate. Just at the expense that they are better trained in certain legislation. I don't I know, we had a huge fight recently one company and in My whole team came running to me. Here let's pay them, let's pay them we'll pay, they'll sue us now court, we will have a weak position. Well, I The first thing I did was describe the case to the chat GPT. This is what will happen in Norway, and if For example, we will have a trial the proceedings are on such and such question. And he honestly tells me that most likely there will be compensation there legal costs, there is the contract itself they won't force you to comply. Aa how if only there were such precedents there significantly more. I'm curious, you know, your opinion on the topic of what you still look from the other side, how big companies fight, and there you watch that pretty closely what's happening there in the stock markets. Why do states have such a big problem now?

emphasis and why it is important for states take some strong position regarding everything that is connected with conditional artificial intelligence, right? Why is it there, for example, now, when 2 days ago even the markets collapsed quite strongly on the news about this there depsik? Why is this so important? for countries? Kazakhstan too now is developing his own model there. At first I also didn't understand why We have our own LM model, if we can use someone else's, pay money, Please. Well, yes, that is, there is a bunch there. open on-road solutions and so on. AND Well, it's strange to assume that you're right make some kind of model right here much, much cooler than the guys, in which they have already invested some directly billions billions, and they have been for many years now They sit and do this, yes. At the same time, here it turned out that even so, as if even this doesn't work exactly, you know, it's similar to something like this own process in the bank. I'm sorry for a very strange analogy. And the main thing the number of banks, they have this functionality opening cards, closing cards, processing of transactions, limits, they outsourcer, and there are some integrators, which they are given, roughly speaking, there this processing is separate, right? And the big ones Banks buy it and set it up. Well then You always have a choice between some kind of outsourcing of some solution and by your own decision. U there are, well, a number of solutions of my own advantages. A number of advantages are in that, firstly, you can do some deep improvements on it, which may not be for your vendor very interesting or which can and for it should be some kind of complex, for which he will charge a lot of money because that only you need them there. You can to be in some queue for twenty seventh year. That is, if you have your own model, and you want to teach it something special, you will have such opportunity, that is, such a deep one customization for your specific needs, which you come up with. When you have your product, it’s easier to control, its development is easier to control. Well that is, you want it to be faster. You basically understand that do. And when you have a vender sitting there some, well, that is, in fact, you are from You depend on him very much for flexibility. The second is the processing of professional data. That means you really It is important that your data, which this the model will process, they don't they were not at your disposal ah well, some external sides for you. That is, if the state wants to build some, uh, mach learning models on big data, I don't know, just again download all the data into which it collected within the framework of the provision of public services for so that later this data Of course, they want to have an analysis own tool to do these professional data of all of their own there citizens should not be accidentally transferred to their own, not I know, to a neighbor, a partner, and there, to whom whatever you like. votsinalnosnokhn and mozhet too much of everything for someone you don't I would like to, with whom would you not want these share data. It seems that this one is security issue, problem customization, they are very important. Well that is, right there at Nazarbayev University, for example, ah, well, it seems to me, quite He's making a logical, logical theme now. That Yes, they took the on-source model, one of open source models, I don't remember which one, and It's enough how strongly they started it continue to justify, just finishing it history so that she is there well with how I understood the Kazakh language. Yes. He It's actually quite rare. Well, well. like the Terek group of languages, specifically Kazakh language. Well, in Kazakh there, well he says there, well I don’t know, how much, 20-30 million people. Not the best the most common language in the world. Ah, but to you It is important that you have the quality of your translation and overall quality of processing all your personal data on your the state language was adequate. AND there we go to negotiate, so to speak, with some Open AI in order to it took priority, I don’t know, there, training a model in Kazakh date, so that it is good understood the context so that she could do it well understood these things. But this is really very difficult. That is, it’s easier to take some a good basic model and start it then focus on teaching a certain stack of unique data, which only you have. Bank I poured a lot of resources into the training neural network for the case to decide on compensation. That is, in our At some point the compliance became 130 officers. Terribly long processing of all payments, an awful lot of different requests, which we constantly collect. We have there was a dream, listen, we are a digital bank, Why do we have 130 people gathering? some simple suitcases of papers to every client and just, well, everything unhappy? That is, clients do not we are happy that it is long, we are not happy because it's crazy expensive and also takes a long time. And clients unhappy. Well, that is, something like that a business that no one liked. Ah, then It was expensive for the clients and it was expensive for us it's not profitable because of this, here we are We thought about how this could be optimized. That It's clear that we took a bunch of ready-made ones solutions and then began to train them on some of their specific cases, so that he learns to read very well certain kinds of documents so that he I learned to understand and to analyze things as if in a certain context. And again, there is a GPT chat on At a basic level it can do a lot of things, and with the right one with the right ones Prompts. But when you want it specifically make it so that you get it from the essence I understood the contracts, whether there was a risk there, no I know, violations of some kind of sanctions, then it's better to have a separate model for this further train. So we sat and finished training, so that she learns to solve very a specific task that we have there are, including on completely different ones languages, yes. Well, this, by the way, is already completely practical application the essence of the business, right? That is the same thing That's exactly what I was asking. That is it's no longer personal use, and this is a specific model, which improves business efficiency, let's put it this way. Yes, yes. That is, we have I really dream that our compliance will be doing something else besides in order to request clients documents, then sit and read them. Class. Understood. Let's go back a little. About

I want to roll back. We started about AI and about how this changes the world greatly. But by the essence of us is, uh, like, all these changes, they create a feeling of such a certain crisis, yes, because everything changes quickly for you, for you Markets change, businesses change and that's it. And if we take it there, I don’t know, just people who work for hire or people who are trying to do business, everyone has a little bit of this, let's say I feel unwell, I think. Now the first one the question is, yes, how can you not lose it at all? what you have because you see that everything is changing. I don't know, There's a crypto market boom there, people are crazy Foma, you can download exchange rates here. a new president has arrived, it's unclear what kind legislation will be adopted. Here when you look at everything that's happening and You ask yourself, what about all these troubles? Are you asking about how not to lose what we built, or 99% they are not focused on that here's how not to lose, but how grow in some new industries and spheres? I think so, yes, it is. the only way. Well, somehow for that, To stay in place, you need to run. And, obviously, there is no other way to protect yourself from this. That is It's a very bad strategy to defend yourself. Attacking is always better, actually. Yes. better, and as if on its own industry it's better to attack, and, well, that is, always It's better to try to expand something than to protect something. Always protect it's not profitable, but if you're trying to stay where you are, you are most likely there you won't stay. There is almost no such way. So we'll have to do it somehow anyway get out of your comfort zone in some ways to dig into new things, to figure them out, change something. And the demand for people who able to catch a wave, he's crazy. Well, that is what is happening, that is This isn't the new nineties, this is something else. much larger scale, in fact. Here. Ah, well, that is, if there is for, no I know, the same post-Soviet one space formation there initial capital, it was there as if it were typical for this period of transition to a market economy economy, now it feels like everything will be reviewed again and those who can reach this level, increasing difficulty to hold on somehow on it in his industry, to understand that's what's happening now and what is the most effective from a business point of view, right? How to adapt to all this, how make the most efficient use of everything the tools that are there, then yes, you are on in fact, somehow the winner gets All. That is, like Google there, no I know, I got my 70% of the market, that's the same thing will happen in almost all industries. On the one hand, the industry become much deeper, then There are also a lot of Google crackers there different, but at the same time, relatively speaking, here there is a search there, it belongs to the global there one company. Now this again the market is starting to reboot. At your place Limmodels appear, they are exactly the same will divide the market. And it feels like there will be some kind of leader there who will take its 60, I don’t know, 70% of the market, there will be some fifteen percent, there will be a long tail. How is it with search? was? Oh, and of course, how were the models, They also cannibalize the search to some extent, that's why Google is there too tries to run forward very actively. Yes, they are one of the main investors. It's actually turning out pretty well in fact, with this. In I mean that here, Maybe, for your business, in order to survive in order to survive, try grow. Here in America it is wonderful conference for the banking sector Aciquire or Be acquired. So absorb someone or become absorbed with someone. And this is almost, In short, you need to be on the move. Need it or someone or or someone to try to absorb, or to be absorbed by, something. This is much more profitable than just try to defend ah-ah here's some small provision. AND I see, again, yes, that is new tools appear, exactly like that the same way marketplaces appeared, gave birth to a huge class of AA entrepreneurs who, in general, started using these tools. But this is also not that long event in our life. It's not right, it is very short, because further on you, in essence, as if the rich are getting richer, The poor are getting poorer, you have a marketplace going on becomes the same as a certain manipulator, which tightens the screws and, in fact, rolls it in

you have your own terms. Moreover, what is the most It's interesting if you look at it at all segment, for example, small and medium business, there is a feeling that it is somewhere around there 10-12 years ago these social elevators, they have become very flexible, Yes, the Internet has become very active, social networks appeared, and you, by creating any kind of business, you could it's pretty easy to promote, attract clients, that is, you have In general, this communication with client and access to people, and he became much simpler. Now it's like this it feels like a little bit is going on the opposite effect, because on the one hand you have a lot of all this on your side, you have gigantic competition in this, and in reality you are not effective because giants are so much richer, so much more efficient that the whole small and medium business, it's just remains somewhere beyond the edge. And there is the feeling that you have a chance, to succeed somehow strongly and break into the major league. And you should too to do something super unique and somehow very effectively or sell out to someone, or somehow, get out there. Listen, this is exactly the same dilemma. Well, it's just that when it started the internet and when did it start like this adoption began to grow, and when Internet advertising suddenly became effective, and you're talking about that It was easy. It was easy for those who knew how to use this instrument. There were few of them. Yes, I agree. People They looked at it as if it were AI, right? I now it's absolutely true. That is the quantity people who use this tool used it, it was still there small. And those who seem to be this wave I caught them, and then they sort of took off. The competitive advantage is great received. Then it became satiated, It is clear that the ocean turned into a nekiala. And, relatively speaking, there are taxi aggregators there came out and gave a huge opportunity the number of people to earn, and then this will also dissipate everything. But there, It seems to me that it is obvious, unfortunately, how if only the taxi market were here, it's very large in global volume, and it, will probably be one of the first of its kind major changes in the labor market when Do you have self-driving taxis, yes, when? All drivers will go, yes, when all drivers will have to do this something else. In fact, they definitely do there will be work. That is, there is such a feeling, that the service economy is true is limitless, so they don't need much worry. But conditionally those who started How to make money with taxi aggregators they are, in general, by and large often increased significantly in income. Those who came to the marketplace, especially at the beginning, they also grew in income and earned some things. It's clear when You have this marketplace getting saturated, there is also a certain thing happening in it economic concentration between merchants and the marketplace itself, which dominate all the mrchants. And at some point it’s already scarlet there too ocean. And in artificial intelligence and knowledge, for example, implementation artificial intelligence in a huge blue ocean now actually. That It seems like everyone is talking about it, but no one doesn't know how to use it. This is also, Well, it's some kind of gigantic niche for business. and in general how helping businesses master, in essence speaking of technology, a, well-known technology, just teaching them, in fact in fact, we are implementing some business processes, there, consultants, it seems to me, now can earn money. these consultants we need small ones, big ones, there, ah, for microbusiness, for small business, for medium-sized businesses, for large ones enterprises. And someone will take it, no I know, it's 10 dollars an hour, someone will charge $1,000 per hour. A, and this is also, in fact, a big market, which will arise now and also will disappear after some time. That is The funny thing is that you don't need it now think about what is new, big, long there will be history. They won't be there, most likely in total. That is, the world will continue accelerate, that is, you will have grow small bright cycles, right? U You will have small bright numbers. If you are in these small bright digital cycles you will maintain sanity and as if see the potential quickly enough some things, you can fly straight into space, right? That is, you don't need to be there. the best. Well, that is, to be rich To be a human, you don't have to be the best. This too some kind of amazing story. You can be a lazy person there, weak, somehow not very smart. But how can it always be made worse? Enough, actually, at least try somehow towards all this get closer and don't be afraid of this, you understand, don't be afraid from this zone constantly go out of comfort, don't be afraid constantly try something new, no be afraid to constantly fall into something things, study them, try to apply them to practice. And I'm sure that here a huge amount of values tied. And children need to be taught this too, so that just like that, guys, you will be in your life, most likely you have There will be a lot of professions. Friends, There are many people among you who find time for my podcasts even in a frantic in the rhythm of life, between meetings, on the road or in rare moments of respite. But it's true in the fact that there are endless fires and overtime can be avoided. If you improve the processes in the company and collect a team you can trust, then you will be able to get out of the routine and start act as a strategist. Go through General Director program from Edison Academy. 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Follow the link in description or scan the QR code, Submit a request and receive a 65% discount using the promo code Sokolovsky, as well as personal consultation with an expert as a gift. Here from the point of view of such a one, at least As far as perception goes, I still remember this some time ago when I was thinking and looked at my friends in general, who in some companies are building for a long time anyway furthermore, earlier there was this idea that, at least in my head that you I chose some task and then you you're building some kind of path for yourself, yes, strategy there for 20 years ahead. Now this seems absolutely fine overall impossible. That is, you get something. Your task now is in the moment time to use it to the maximum efficiency. If you can later this is to be further transformed into something, Great. If not, then you will choose something else and you'll go. This is it stages, right? That is the essence of all yours this activity is divided into stages, within which you must be effective, must be proactive. You know, it's probably logical after all what does the story look like when you, say, saying that there really is something of yours business, and you are just this business transform depending on That's what's going on with you, right? That is, Well, yes, yes. Maybe you have some new areas appear, then Do you have a core, yes, around here You used to have an auto parts store, then you started using these spare parts marketplace to trade, yes. Then you started the media about spare parts. to do, I realized that the information is more effective Why not? Well, that is, there you are. you're still trying to capitalize netvor, you're trying to capitalize relationships, you try your knowledge capitalize and they will are in demand. That is actually how there would be good, cool experts who really understand these processes. Therefore, this can be and will be the whole matter your life. That is, the question is not, that you must be there all the time create some new startup and that's it starting from scratch, but you really Once you're there, you can change your course. quite often and sometimes to see that, maybe it really could be, maybe even more radically somewhere it will need to be changed. Maybe it's still there, I don't know, there's trade, but it's already trade a little bit different, because, for example, here there is a market became very effective. Well, basically you capitalize on your knowledge and skills, but the form of how you sort of you realize, she is very strong changes now over time. Yes, here agree. And in your opinion, look here, now people who have

some free money, yes, which they cannot do effectively there spend it on business and there, I don’t know, buy themselves apartments, cars, they are wondering: where to invest? Now when you look at the current market, to some kind of instability, into what, in your opinion and what makes sense pay attention now? Don't know, businesses only in the AI ​​segment, and or not I know, in times of instability buy gold and sit back or crypto market. What do you think, does it make sense to pay attention? There will be no peace anywhere. Generally optimistic. Oh no, it's true. Honestly. Moreover, those who want to get the most out of this peace of mind, they will turn out to be almost the most vulnerable in current history. And simply because, well, here we are, obviously, we are going through an era of quite high inflation. It is quite typical for big changes. Well, economic ones. shocks during some kind of perestroika generally some kind of production paradigm, a kind of restructuring economies do not always happen. IN modern economies this never happens total bankruptcy, when everyone has money not enough. It's the other way around when there's money too much, because it's easier for everyone I would rather print money than bankrupt someone. But money depreciate, so keep them there money, I don’t know, in some government securities papers, keep money in some low-yield bank deposits and to think that I don’t want to take risks, that's why I'll keep the money deposit in the State Bank, this is most likely a very bad strategy on in fact, which is guaranteed will lead to the loss of this money. Moreover other methods will also be very risky, oddly enough, but there, most likely, it will still be the best from expectations, right? Because, you know, on the one hand, for me, well, like I'm watching this story with Nvidia, it's It seems very wild to me. And in company It's worth 3.5 trillion bucks even after yesterday's there, well, there were 3,300, I don't know. A and, well, that is, if you count the models, which were built by analysts, there are also It's such a joke, actually. That is analysts build models as they have always built. That is, they count there discounted cash flow at 15 years, based on the assumption that Nvidia will dominate as if on in the chip production market there the next 15 years. But to be honest, in principle, it doesn't sound very realistic. Well, that is, never to any chip maker there or, I don't know, to any manufacturer any hardware, uh, any goods in general failed to maintain dominance situation for decades, and maintain it's like it is. Moreover, not even being in bitusishnom segment, and in bitubishnom segment. In the bituminous segment new technology appears, fig. And here it is the next day you don't have it anymore clients. Well, that is, if, as it were, B2C story, you have clients there you get used to it, they start to get used to you trust, they get used to yours interfaces, some other things, that is It's not really that easy there lose. And in B2B technology, I repeat, someone came and gave this the same API, it's like twice as cheap, and that's it, It's not clear what you'll do if Someone has the same effective solution for you. I came up with it. That's why everyone was scared of these Chinese. Another thing is that it’s very It's strange to expect that this wouldn't happen happened. In my opinion, even in the best case scenario, if they turned out to be the only smart people, who invented this technology, and everyone the rest were so hopelessly behind that it's impossible to catch up with them, well, sort of In my opinion, they are just there by themselves monopoly regulators don't matter to you they will still let me earn so much money for so long and they will start trying somehow demonopolize yours your sphere. But at the same time, it's cool. Lividia is certainly cool. What is it now? evaluate correctly? For me, for itself is, in fact, a mystery. That is there is a very open bet against her scary. Better against it anyway who not to bet against. That is to say, no short securities, do not play short. Bet on someone, don't bet against them someone. Basically, it's a bad idea. almost always. That is, if you need something It seems very expensive, just not touch this on Definitely don't try as if to bet on the fact that it will get cheaper now. You are the smartest one All the rest are fools. And I wouldn't I would dare to bet against Nvidi, but as if very carefully, actually there, you know, well, conditionally, as if me I was so surprised that Open AI had capitalization in the last round there something like 150 billion when they were attracted, and Nvidia was already costing under 3 back then trillion. Well, what if it's already that way? If it goes wrong, then it's better to invest in a leader, but rather as the final product, than a chip maker, which is on which this product is works. That is, we are on Google. we invest in Facebook, they invest in those who makes hardware for them. Well, yes. And the iron It might change, but the clients they remain, as it were, and the relationship with these clients remain. Well, yes. By about shorting the market, as they say may remain irrational longer, how liquid are you? You know, I'm here again I wouldn't, to be honest, I wouldn't I really like the idea with me still not

I really like the idea with crypto. And I not like this, we discussed that time, they touched upon literally a couple of words there the topic of what people think it is new money without understanding the principle money devices, but still now, I think it's some other way the area is entering, as if. No. And people don’t think about anything anymore. Fact. It seems to me that according to the latest memecoins, which, with a light hand, elected President of the United States The States have launched, they are already openly mock common sense. But people react to this too, actually. in fact, partly very much in something, probably, predictable, but that's not my opinion it's scary enough because, you see, in America it's the same the stock market itself in general financial markets, and they are 200 years old have accumulated a certain amount of trust in themselves as a tool, and investments in shares, not necessarily in any specific ones even shares, right? That is, people in principle there is a certain understanding of value everything that is somehow traded on the stock exchanges. It is clear that there are some better stocks, worse, companies that are developing, there, they don’t develop, they become cheaper, they become more expensive. It is clear that investments are associated with risk. And then suddenly a new class appeared assets that look the same as old assets, but there's nothing inside at all does not contain. And considering that, well, even a share is an abstraction enough high. Well, that is, as if for most people like some kind of cartoonists, which, yes, for most people in principle, it's already an incomprehensible nonsense that they buy when they buy a stock. A here it turned out that it was possible It's completely legal to sell to people like this a completely empty shell. Well, that is to say which has only a name. This is a security that has, Apart from the name, there is nothing at all. A, Well, on the other hand, it's probably possible, to think, and if something, except there are names for any currency, aa paper, reinforced by collective faith. Here, essentially the same thing. And the price is determined by the balance of demand and offers. You know, here's the general approach. to the currency valuation, he actually really formed. Well, that is to say there is some fundamental analysis of currencies, which are actually the same ones there banking strategies are trying to do periodically, trying to understand what The fair price there is the euro to the dollar. There is a market price that should be a fair price in theory. AND it is defined as if the market is determined by the actual balance supply and demand, it is fair, it actually depends on the general you have volume, well, let's say, goods and services that, well, that is, on the size of the economy that this currency serves as a store of value and means of accumulation. Ah, well that is. How many of them do you stupidly need for payments? in the economy that this is does your payment method work? How to determine the exchange rate of this currency? Well, so that it doesn't become relatively cheaper, for example, goods within the country. That is How do I know what is optimal? the amount of money supply to you need to? These are all central banks. They do this all the time. And then, when you're already trying to determine the course one currency relative to another currency, are you really trying to understand again the same way your capital flows are structured, and how trade flows are structured. Well then there is, for example, conditionally in the European Union the euro is getting cheaper against the American dollar, then, in theory, European goods for Americans it becomes cheaper, they start them buy more actively. That is, the demand for euro, it's actually like is determined in general by the potential there, in including goods and services that Europe is capable of selling. Mostly services, well, it doesn't really matter. A in China again, yes, the yuan exchange rate, from What does it depend on? Including from trade streams. The exchange rate of the yuan to the dollar depends on in fact, from there the successes of international China's trade with the rest of the world, including first and foremost United States. Oh, and from politics, roughly speaking, there is that, again, there are they accumulating some reserves or on the contrary, they spend them. This is also like affects this fair one well. Friends, the real estate market in Russia and Europe have slowed down. More and more Investors choose Bali. And this informed choice. In twenty-fourth The tourist flow to the island has increased this year by 24%. Demand for rental housing is stable is growing. There is no seasonality here. 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Leave a request using the link in the description and Find out the detailed conditions right now. Take a step towards profitable investments and life by the ocean. Let's go. when you have there is, uh, well, some new currency that you create, which, by and large account, there is no market that she serves, that is, there are no goods and services, in fact, which would be paid in this currency, but no, and in real life, as if using the utility in reality, no real ones are used, in fact for investment, neither for dal, nor for expressions, I don’t know, there are monetary ones some kind of obligations when, well, some kind of store of value, yes full-fledged, when you are here with people You say that I'm lending you 100 dollars and here I give it to you, I don’t know, there tenge, and after some time you will give it to me bring back the shadow, but so that I am on them again could buy 100 dollars. Yes, when you you're trying to say that, yes, you need some kind of benchmark even if You don't use it yourself. In fact the problem is that the main script until now these functions, in general, There is not. Whether they show up or not, who cares. knows. Well, most likely it won't appear, because, well, no, even here it’s like that, in fact, now, if you look at it there the whole market exists, of course, some ecosystem projects, yes, on which are being built again by others projects. At least it's sort of clear there is no logic in most of them, but no less. That is, if we look, Yes, without trying to dig into, let's say, in the essence of the projects and some coins there and so on from the general point of view crypto market as a whole, that is, on your look, can we say today that this is what has already become established and that is what will not go away in the coming decades will it be with us or will you still see some risks of what might happen everything will change radically and quickly Will this shop close? You know, people quite religious, and, in general, when people start to believe in something, this is actually getting big by force. I underestimated it a little bit, in fact, earlier, but apparently, as if Here's the main bookmaker in crypto history - real faith on which everything rests. And this is a certain religion. That is to say, I don't I know, that's true, we were just there these awards meetings and events in Washington. Our chief lawyer went to on a number of events that are there the crypto industry did. Yes. And then I a couple of people also met, as it were after that. Oh, and listen, it struck me. This really does sound like a religion. Well, that is, I don’t know those people who, Probably immersed in the crypt, witnesses Bitcoin, yes, it's almost real some kind of religious community. But on In fact, gold is not based on religion either It seems very similar in this sense. Well, that is, well, the value of gold, it is also somehow very incomprehensible. Well then there it is exactly the same as what we are we believe. That is, if it is nominal value in fact of this, that is, it was the time when it had actual some value use, was currency, but now it has a nominal value. That is, there after there seventies and eighties, when the gold standard was untied, that is, in general, just some kind of nominal something. Is it possible to destroy faith in crypto fully? The devil knows. Well, that is to say I wonder if crypto will stay with us. for a long time? Most likely it will remain. A religions in general seem to take root, in fact, there may be very long, such is human nature. Well there, if you actually look at crypto, I'm interested from the outside again there is the banking sector, yes, you see deeply that in general is happening. And, for example, right now there is there are several of these phenomenal ones pieces, yes, for example, USDTER, which, actually, it interacts very closely with regulators, as far as I understand. There a lot of questions and so on. Here now this is the thing in which it is valuable paper, that's where there are tens of billions. So essentially, what do they do? They take and print some kind of coin, buy American government gangs, as far as I understand, yes, and so They just give it to you on the blockchain use this one as if secured thing. And yet, yes, accordingly, people still do not understand what it is, how it can be will something happen to this? Here you have it as a person from that side, and what opinion? Ah, well, actually, from the point of view from a definitional standpoint, this is a classic a security, right? Aa from the point of view in fact, and there sec, uh, SS was being clever for a long time this topic at the very beginning of this one stories. They talked about the fact that, listen, the security has a value a number of qualitative criteria, ani and It doesn't matter how you structure it. You can write on napkins, but I don’t I know you can create some an electronic database for recording these rights, ah, can you print on some beautiful forms, it doesn't matter. That is, the essence of the rights that you have is important. You certify. So. Oh, and you use this centralized database, decentralized database for confirmation of these rights, this is also no matter how it defines character, as if a security is or not a security. And therefore USDT, in general, a classic security in to some extent this is an obligation the issuer is called just this one that's it, right? A tesar, a, which promises give you some amount American dollars when you give him present this valuable for payment paper. Yes. Well, actually, it's like that. It's like a banknote in essence, just a banknote of the issuer under the name Teter. Yes. This is exactly how banks do it created. Well, here you are in Hong Kong. you come when Hong Kong is quite a unique country, one of the very few in the world where money is printed commercial banks, not the central bank. And there is a small amount there banks that have the right to print banknotes. There are six or seven of them there. Bank of China, HSBC and some others. So. Ah, so that's actually all banknotes in general, yes, the word banknote is bank obligation. Oh, and it was like that before too. there was a specific obligation commercial bank. So you go to the bank he came, he gave you a banknote, you I could later share this banknote with someone pay off, and then someone, at the end after all, he could have come to the bank and picked it up there some amount of gold, I don't know, or there is something there, some others. Well, yes, and there was a story before, you have banknote, you must go to a specific bank go to have her there conditionally cash out, right? Well, or to some other one sell to the bank if he trusts you, as it were, eh, bankno. Ah, and actually speaking, Tetter is the same thing, that is, it is literally as if an obligation as some specific bank, quasi-bank in order to give it to you in the end U. S. In your opinion, there is Are there any risks to this entire structure?

Yes, these are absolutely ordinary credit cards. risks are the same as for any bank in world. More specifically, that is, conditionally if you have more obligations than you can you provide, yes, that is, listen, this is a complete set of ordinary credit risks of any bank that There is. Uh, you can, uh, again, yes, then there are, well, obviously, and they can face liquidity risk, for example, that is, they have a quantity there cash dollars that they can give to your clients in exchange for The presented tetra may not be enough. Yes. Will they be able to sell those quickly? assets they have? Not Will these assets depreciate? And they won't steal it Are there, I don’t know, these assets? That is, Well, there are, of course, a lot of processes. That Yes, if it is a well-audited bank with good things there, with good processes, with good controls, with credit rating, with some clear advice directors, well, people have come up with a lot things, how to try to somehow manage with this very credit risk, so that no one didn't steal anything, right? That is there clear division of roles, there are different ones signatures, different functions there approval of various transactions. And what, as it were, Well, again, I don't understand very well. tent. I understand that this is not entirely classic bank. I'm not completely I understand, that is, to what extent they are there they do all their procedures correctly, how high is their standard regulation, because they had it before There was no regulation at all. AND they simply declared certain things and promised everyone to do this certain things. Well okay if they are They keep their promises, everything will be fine. absolutely wonderful and good. And if Well, and people often do that, In fact. People do their promises and everything is fine. They don't have to have an auditor in order not to steal money. This is quite obvious statement. Ah, but at the same time, it’s like this the presence of these auditor controls and other things, it helps you as if make sure that the situation is more likely normal than abnormal, with more probability. Yes. And so it is like this Do you remember Silicon Valley Bank? history, they also invested only in US government securities. This however, it did not deprive them of the opportunity crash, although they paid for in fact, in the end, I do I understand, there are a lot of their own there loans. There were mainly B2B stories, as far as, well, here they are faced liquidity risk. They there, as I understand it, they lost it most of his capital of some earned, but nevertheless there the money was distributed in general because they We were just buying American bonds. But these bonds became cheaper, and that's all. they started to be afraid that there wouldn't be money for everyone enough eventually. Well, listen, theoretically, even if you're just money you keep it in some bank, well, that is They keep it there in their Bahamian bank money is now moving somewhere Slevador is also a wonderful jurisdiction, with good protection of property rights. Well, I mean when you have it is clear that they have different custodies, they can probably work while being in El Salvador, there with American banks first-class. If there are any clear procedures that you allow you to check all of this carefully, this is may reduce the risk, yes, if these There are no procedures, this may increase the risk. But again, if they just act very conscientiously, then in general, as if it is possible without having any control procedures, as if absolutely fine and to exist forever. Moreover, The tetter does nothing but inflate himself, It's as if no one gets any money from him at all I never really picked it up. That is there are some reductions in storage volumes money, they happened, of course, but there weren't, well they always happen, but in within the framework very, yes, within the framework relatively global growth even by 20% in fact case for any bank, no matter how it is A little. Yes. Eh, interesting view. I, by the way, under this I didn't look at it from that angle at all I evaluated it, but overall the logic is clear, right? That is, you essentially just have a principle an ordinary security that provided with something. Yes, it's interesting. And one

It seems to me that from such ideas, is now hovering and which also people It's scary that the world and markets in general, they can change completely, yes, that there will be nothing left to which we got used to it, yes, and, actually, there, I already I don't know, there's the dollar collapse and the change some kind of world paradigm at all domination and so on. Here you are now again, when you do business there and you develop, no, it's clear that you have some kind of main location, where are you, but you still work there with by different people in different regions and so on further. Do you think about it at all? that's how to adapt to this such things? I don't know if you think about that the dollar may not exist tomorrow, and The United States will not conditionally number one and it will be needed there build a business with someone else and negotiate with someone else? Or for you this is generally some kind of minimum risks that don't make sense pay attention? Listen, they are for somehow any huge changes for us any active entrepreneurs with a good team, with a good high level of trust within, with good volume of knowledge, and this is always amazing possibilities. The collapse of some system, make it a trillionaire just like that this situation. How, I don't know. In general It's hard to imagine it now, but in the course of things, if things start to happen some kind of gigantic shift, that's all equal to redistribution of some capital, actually. Well, I mean how it's like in that joke, it says: “Is it really all my money?” he says. "Disappeared?" He says: "Well, why did they disappear?" They just belong to someone now. to another. Well, that's how it is here. IN That's why I'm not very afraid of change. All this time, actually. How you know, looking back, nothing helped us as much as the worst crises that happened. Yes. And if these are global crises that are not specifically yours they concern companies, but they concern everything around, then for any entrepreneur it's cool actually because it's this is exactly the place where the truth is opportunities are born. Well, yes, I agree, agree. Uni everyone turns out to be on equal terms, yes. These are bad conditions for everyone. If you you'll be able to, well, get through it no worse than everyone else, You will already be in the black. Yes, I guess so. I'm just so paranoid in some way plan and, well, I, too, again, don't I looked at it from this angle that In fact, I'm worried about my future there, but globally, if something is happening in the world some kind of global apocalypse, you have everything will definitely be fine with you, in fact, exactly right. What do you mean? you are so much more competitive, than a-a than than many other members society, which you definitely don't need for yourself worry. That is, like, there there we'll have to think about how sooner help others adapt to this perestroika. But there are people there, who feel comfortable now, They feel even more comfortable with changes. will feel. And here are those who are now It's hard, it will get even harder. Well, yes, it's me. so again returning and making sure from year after year in these days, yes, why are they rich? the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Not because they have some unfair advantages, and because they, conditionally, having formed capital at some point in time, they were, therefore, proactive, somewhere a little faster and so on. AND, accordingly, in an era of change, yes, they in times of change, everything is still preserved your speed and productivity, and for this gain an even greater advantage competitive. Yes. So yes, absolutely so. Let's finish talking about the crypto market

bitcoins. Actually, we'll do the bitcoins. an analogy with gold, yes, after all. That there is, in fact, gold has no value there is actual use. Bitcoins has no actual use. Roughly the same story. Do you admit in your head that Bitcoin as an asset could be worth some amount infinite amount of money on distance of years? Yes, of course, absolutely. A you as an entrepreneur, for example, and how, I don't know, investor or not, is it possible? so to speak, eh, you admit, I don't know, directing part of their capital into bitcoins? I'm not really interested in this, huh? Well, anything can be worth something. All, anything. I, if I answer briefly, this question, and what is the use of this knowledge? practically none. Listen, First of all, to be honest, I don't really like it The speculation itself is interesting. Yes. Oddly enough, I am a person with you'll get a lot of trading experience, but no I know, at least at the moment I'm not very interested in my life, but I don't know how to monetize my money there your knowledge and understanding of the world, something buying cheaper and selling more expensive. Yes. A I still want to spend more some of its energy, creating some cool products for people. Well, that is to say creating some cool services, finding some faster ones, easy, cheap ways to solve some problems, there is learning credit risk It's cheaper to evaluate, learn there individual insurance for everyone sell a person based on his personal cost there this credit risk. Learn to do any suggestions for people who are from which they really will be to enjoy. There you have to understand at what price This proposal needs to be made, in what the moment in time when what advertising show, which not to show. This such cool science and cool things, which I really like curious. Do you understand what might happen? Will gold be worth forever? Will Bitcoins be worth forever? Besides, what and as one of them, in my opinion, said there was this phrase in a quality house one of the heroes about the speculation is a poor form of investments. Ah, well how? speculations would be these very ones of ours games about what should cost more, which should cost less. In any in this case they are very close to gambling, become in many parameters. Even if you do any actions with, based on knowledge and understanding that It's as if people still don't understand something, you're already starting to understand a little faster, than they are. But just kind of running ahead everyone and try to grab some goods earlier than everyone else they grabbed it, though, it seems just not the most interesting activity in life, if Honestly. And besides, it’s not a fact that You will succeed in this very well. This it's an incredibly difficult task to try appear smarter than everyone else. That's why It seems to me that this is absolutely it is enough that if you know how to do some useful things and cool products, then you don't need them don't invest in any bitcoins, and you will always have enough for bread anyway. If you can do yours well work, no matter what happens, there America will collapse along with the dollar or It won't fall apart after all. And who will be there? rule the world? What kind of robots will there be? tomorrow drive cars or collect or cook in the kitchen, take away? It doesn't matter. You'll figure it out all of this. You have it anyway good many competitive advantages, no you'll disappear. So you don't have to try. hedge somehow and use your own money buy some gold coins there some other bitcoin ones. It seems to me, that it's just not very important. A it is clear that in a world in which it is possible print unlimited quantity money, anything can cost anything, everything anything. Liquidity has to go somewhere go into one of the assets. Question so practical for that part of our audience that has managed to do so in their lifetime earn some capital, I don't know, ten, twenty million dollars. Well, let's put you in this situation. There is no shortage

billion, yes, for now there is Here is a small amount of money. How would you managed similar capital? Here you are Imagine you have a business, it generates money, you have some here is the zone of interest, you are in it you are developing. Money gradually becomes more. There are 10-20, no I know, millions. What did you do with these? with money? In my understanding there are two more or less rational methods at all invest money. And these are exactly two basic types of securities. These are shares and duty. Ah, well, accordingly, the shares, there, bonds in various forms. Again, if you are young enough and you have, there is a pretty good income and some kind of liquidity cushion in order to, I don't know, there smooth out some of your fluctuations own income, loss of job, there, some other things, well, how would you must create some kind of reserve, with on the one hand, in the currency in which you spend this reserve, well, probably, there is enough for several months there your life, and he doesn't necessarily have to be very big his is more logical keep everything there, so to speak, probably on deposit in a bank, especially If the conditions at the bank don't seem right to you, how is this some kind of such a peculiar form of financial repression, when you have, well, conditionally, rates on deposits are much less than inflation or something like that. That is, if, as Do you think the interest rates on deposits in general compete quite adequately with inflation, even if not completely they cover it, but somehow it's more or less there's nothing really scary what's happening is not Zimbabwe, but something the amount of money, however, is better to keep in your national currency, in which You are actually spending money. just on deposit in some bank. And that's a little bit money, but a little of your income, and a little of your monthly expenses, let's put it this way. But if, I repeat, stick to some more conservative history, I would still I bet on corporations, but on those corporations that, on the one hand, profitable and already quite large, then they have some kind of business, well, there are hundreds of millions of them there dollars. Such companies usually are already managed quite well, are audited fairly well. There is no there are some really, I don't know, there you will definitely not be deceived, and you certainly share your risk there between different issuers. As a rule, You rarely put everything there eggs in one basket. That is, you buy there is corporate debt of several productive companies that make some normal products, they own some kind of visible market share, no there is definitely the biggest one there, but here Either someone will buy them there, or they will be there someone will be bought. That is, they have some kind of There is a more or less clear story. That It's clear there, that, relatively speaking, there People probably need Bert. Even if He's doing LosMaking right now, so the debt itself is most likely valuable. Because one way or another, even if the stock price will fall to zero, then, most likely, for some reason Money will buy you this company. If she not super overburdened with debt, then this debt there is not at all scary buy. And so I would still have some part, in fact, I would really put it and would place it in corporate debt, especially in emerging markets. And in, Well, I don't know, there in the post-Soviet space. It seems that investing in debt strategically in the majority cases it was more profitable than buying shares in business. We have debt yields securities were simply higher than the yields shares. It's a strange imbalance, but we have large ones the owners shared very poorly profit with other shareholders, and debt they paid fairly regularly, So far everything was fine. Then there was it's a joke that, well, like, especially when business is either not very good large, or in a not very clear way jurisdiction and there are no traditions as such, how to split with other shareholders, when people understand the importance, the benefits this staff is for them, it's better for them there just borrow. clear conditions. Here You'll get that much back, then that's even better works. In low-trust markets, a in the markets with high confidence I would still, I would as if again, if I had some there, well at least a few there hundreds here or there, I don’t know, there are 50, 100, 200-300,000 dollars free, which I would need to place it, I would, there's probably still more than half of it there I would have invested this money in shares. Yes. A I would still try to go in, probably not the biggest ones and not in the most hyped stories, ah-ah, but I looked would be on those companies that do something beautiful, well, that is, which, after all, I repeat, they are increasing their share there market, which are somehow increasing it it's more or less beautiful there, but which ones create value. Well, that is, you kind of or you lend money to those who create value, and either you -e in well or you own those who create value. AND Both are definitely long-term it will work because, well, you see, an effective company, for which is driven by normal people, there will be inflation, there will be deflation, America will become great there whether it happens again or not, they will adapt to this one way or another. Well, yes, if yours the portfolio of such companies is diversified at least somehow, then you have it turns out, yes, more or less stable model. Exactly. But is it productive? the state, when you accumulate, does not I know, there's just currency and or there just a debt to the state? Good question. States are always the cheapest occupy. On the one hand, they seem to be they always have the opportunity, but not there is always a desire to pay your dues debts. Yes. And it seems that this is the most a reliable way to borrow money often. Sometimes it really is like that. U There are actually a lot of us with portfolios too there are government securities there for various purposes reasons. The state is generally very encourages them to always lend money. But to what extent is the state fundamentally productive, that's also good big question. And from the point of view such practical application, here on What is your opinion, entrepreneur, who is I earned there, I don't know, a couple of dozen millions of dollars, how important is it somehow provide for my life with some basic things? I don't know, there's a house there, apartment, car, something else or something like that your paradigm of the world is not very an important thing. Very important. Well that's it because it's a matter of your comfort. Ah, well again, yes, the question there is, what kind of You want comfort on a scale allow as much as it bothers you in general, it’s like some kind of your business to do, if those, if you're kind of choosing between some kind of business growth, use some opportunities and then there are it will always be such a story, that is you need to develop your business one way or another Otherwise, you need resources for this. If you will get all the resources from it If you take it away, then most likely it's too early to start a business or it will end later. Although the businesses are different There are some, not all of them are capital ones, but very It's weird to turn into a mole that just saving money in order to save. Ah, well, that's how it is with me, I have one too. favorite phrase: "Your money is what you "You spent it." And therefore in obviously, and get some of your basic things, some comfortable home, in which you live, which you can do whatever you want there, I don't know, some comfortable car in which You drive, it seems to me, it's absolutely It's a normal story if you don't have one. it's a completely micro-business when you there you have a choice between what you there, so to speak, will you be able to pay a salary, perhaps a person I really earned money, yes, and if he earned several tens of millions dollars, then I'll be very surprised, well, then Yes, that is, I would definitely buy it and an apartment and a car, and, well, again, yes, that is the question opportunities, and if you have any a clear understanding of where this money goes invest correctly, Yeah. and I would be in some kind of comfort and in my personal I invested in productivity anyway would be first and foremost. Got it, recorded. Class. Let's talk a little bit about your business. Eh, a lot is changing. You

for this year, as I understand it, in general, one could say they were transformed into something else. Here we are already behind the scenes We discussed it a little. That is, in essence, that, where did you start, where do you stand now, well, I understand that it's still the same corporative business, yes, that's the main thing activity, but nevertheless it expands into completely different planes and there are some gigantic plans there. Let's start with the first question. Here's to me I would like to understand the starting point. To me It was always interesting, I always watched to large companies that do some kind of multi-ups that they are building some kind of such a collection of big a large number of different businesses and not understood that this was the starting point. Here you are, you are doing, I don’t know, a broker you have, yes, there are banking services there is, and suddenly something appears absolutely new, telecommunications. How this is generally where it comes from, here for example, I don't understand. Can, Please get an explanation on how to do this what's happening? Yes, by the way, we already have probably no longer brokerage revenue more than a brokerage. A and this It's also cool for us. That is us rather to some kind of banking the group is gradually transforming. Where does it come from? And we had a very a good example with Tinkov, who explained to the industry at the time, probably the entire post-Soviet industry, about how a good digital bank can to displace a related industry. They just showed that they are capable aquasize significantly more clients than any brokerage company. And their funnel works perfectly. in a different way. Well, that is, if in response I don't know, like, a million dollars commercial budget for You, uh, got advertising from a broker there at, I don't know, a cost of 200 dollars per client, there, I don't know, roughly, 50,000 clients, then they got 500,000 clients. And what's the most important thing? amazing, and they have It could have been possible, but they could have poured in 20 million dollars. and get 10 times more clients. So it worked linearly, right? And we don't could, that is, we just started not wildly ra Yes, we started to grow wildly cost of exquosion. That is us We understood that we were simply at the market limit achieved, there is no point in pouring further and It's already expensive, but then again It's becoming completely pointlessly expensive. A and they showed that, well, relatively speaking, if we selected people from the general mass and for every client, for every client there They fought for 2-3 months, then they rowed them significantly more and then very effectively banking clients converted into brokerage. Ah, and it turns out that if banks didn’t do it before could cope with this task when They were analog, then digital banks it suddenly turned out that you can I don't know how to put together a team there, there are a lot of people there, and smart ones, correct, effective. They will build you need some kind of app and business process, huh, and then you can have millions, there, hundreds millions of customers to serve with this process. It doesn't break from scaling, roughly speaking, because I don't know what to teach, there are 10 million there operators are impossible. well, somehow a complex product that is truly impossible. That's why big banks never go there. They climbed, not knowing that they were always made Badly. Not everyone needs them, firstly, these products. Secondly, it’s really like, well, they are simply not capable of doing them well render. And then it turned out that capable. And, ah, and there it is just like that many things, they are from trust, from what a person trusts in general, like he has this the purchasing process is taking place. Oh, and then it turns out that there are two of you There is service. What services complementary to your base bank there in the broad sense of the word? Ah, well investments complementary, like savings, there Your loans are, of course, complementary. And then you start watching there's probably insurance there too complementary story because it needed for many loans. And in the end after all, you have people traveling there, they take some property and insure it, You probably need to add it there insurance. Further, if you are big bank, then a very large number of banks made insurance companies to insure your own. I think everyone has it, Moreover, I remember directly even in at some point in time for all banks this topic appeared. You open it card and you have free insurance appeared there for some things, there for Traveling and stuff, right? And in It turned out that it was possible to do it in ecosystems more complex products, including many voluntary products that It was difficult before buy. It was difficult to sell to a person, then it turns out that from within the bank complex insurance product applications It's much easier to sell than this out of nowhere. Yes. That is, you have it there trust is falling so much, when you come out of something more or less what's usual for you, what's there It's impossible to deal with the client at all, even with him start a conversation. And here, how would you start talking to him and to someone else you even come to an agreement. And then it turns out that you're kind of saving up enough knowledge and you start notice, what do your clients spend their money on? spend, for example? And you see what you have people, well, it turns out, some a significant part of the income is spent on purchase of electronics. Yes. And you too you understand: "And I know what he has telephone. And I know how often he does it changes. I even know where he bought it. What is this phone and how much does it cost if it's transacting? through your bank." Let's do this we will give a person the opportunity directly from Pre-order the banking app there the new iPhone that will come out, or new Samsung, or how shall we give it to him the opportunity to buy the twelfth iPhone, when the fourteenth or something came out in this spirit, because he always takes, so to speak, right there the previous ones were some kind of a couple, two, two generations ago, this very client, That's why he likes them so much because they became cheaper by this time and here he is It seems like it's cool. Ah, and you again you see that here is a SNDON for the player who he doesn't know this, but he doesn't know this client It costs much more to buy. That is him he doesn't know when to knock, he doesn't knows who to knock on. He starts, Yes, to roam the squares in an attempt the client specifically, yes, it works, right? A You came to the client when it was necessary, about 2 months after the launch, as if the previous one had offered him something new, ah, and gave him some cool special offer and showed him this offer in general, exactly at this moment. Oh, and there too. It also produces its own specific magic. And then, as it were, in any ecosystem, Well, the story begins. That is, how make the client get more out of it spent money. And he needs to be offered the services he needs at that moment, when he is ready to buy them, and even at the price that is more or less acceptable to him there will come in. Well, he needs to be taught this. to use, actually. For this some incentives need to be poured out, because sometimes you need to, well, really spend some amount of money, give, give some coupons, give some opportunities, some very profitable offer. I ordered once, I ordered twice, then people get used to it, they start to like it I like it, they are ready to pay a fair price for it product to pay. You don't have to engage in some kind of fierce dumping, but Often a person needs to be taught, because which seems to repel everything new. you some significant incentive is needed, so that this barrier is simply to overcome, to be able to at some point time. And there are products there, for example, ordering groceries. In fact food market, trade in general food in general, even in Kazakhstan billions of dollars are being carried out there, he's stupidly big. That is, the average margin in products, well, like there's 20 dash 35% plus or minus the gross margin that is there stores have offline, in theory, like would be, well, cool, right? That is, you have there's something on the table, well, at least billion dollars in net margin from trade in these products. Yes. So what? It's more profitable to drag a person to the store, so that he could buy something there, or a product to drag him home, which he chose, then it actually seems like it's already It's also not a completely obvious story. Maybe it's more profitable for him in general bring groceries home if you have logistics are well set up if you aggregate orders correctly if they are distributed quite densely across the city and your courier is efficient I'm busy, and you're doing all this well. if you plan, it will turn out that you It's actually cheaper for him to just buy these products bring him home instead of dragging him to the store for these products. And for a person it is It will most likely be convenient if he trusts you. And who is he for again? trusts? In fact, people are banks trust. Ah, well, let's say people to banks trust more than non-banks. That's why again, you have a certain thing here too there is a competitive advantage appears. Well, essentially, that's the idea such that due to the fact that through you there is a huge number of transactions going on, you see them, you understand, you are on the basis You can see all this data very clearly analyze people's needs at the moment time, yes, and offer people what they need it. And then the question is to what extent you will be able to effectively build these Here are the businesses around banking. Well, that's it, Yes, this is exactly the story we are here for They chose this path for themselves startups. That is, we are straight invested in several dozen there guys who started to achieve some noticeable successes in the market. And then we have already seen that they are market leaders in some or other are claiming leadership as if in some new segment. AND they really came with them partner, as if to support them growth and then just their team, essentially in other words, take into the ecosystem if they It was interesting. And they did it interesting in the overwhelming majority cases, and they became, as it were, part of our big team, which is further I started to bang out this product. Ah, well because you really don't care separate independent units are needed some strong talented guys who are capable of something there to change, to fight for something. And I can clearly see that there is some sense in this. Here again, yes, the same artificial intelligence, machine learning in general in the broad sense of the word, it, Of course, it helps us, for example, very much to be very understanding when people don't need it lend money. People obviously don't need it lend money if they can pay his debt

return. It's bad for everyone, it's bad. for a person, it is bad for that the same credit risk, it can be learn even from the same thing to the client at different moments in life, as it were count differently. And we, for example, we can already know that it's better for you not to give a loan, but you haven't done it yourself yet understand. Just because we see dynamics and trends, right? And it's the same with insurance, understand? There are a huge number of people in Kazakhstan have never been in accident. And this is generally normal. I have I didn't have it either, in mine career, it seems to me, there was no one accident for which my insurance compensated for the damage. Yes. But that doesn't mean, that I drove carefully. I am more than that, I am, unfortunately, that's where I started my career, when I was 20-21 years old, 22 years, I drove terribly carelessly, but not got into accidents. Ah, but objectively mine my my risk insurance at that moment was very expensive compared to a person who is just driving a car he goes to work and I don’t know who he is there, there for 40 years. Yes. But these are completely different People. A man who is with his family he's going, I don't know, somewhere there, eh, like on the weekend, and the person who then I bought a car and I'm just thrilled, this is completely different people from their point of view behavior. And for insurance now, in general, the client is absolutely the same risk, because Some people didn't get into accidents either. Well, their length of service there differs, actually case. Experience in driving style is also far away doesn't always speak. Someone calms down, and some don't. What cool features appeared. We took, for example, there is a base data from court decisions. She is public in any country in the world, I think. Well then there are almost all court decisions are published by civil courts. And we took the database of court decisions road traffic accident. That There are all these in Kazakhstan, well, it's like if you got into an accident, there will always be an administrative court. He it goes by very quickly, there's almost automatically in But nevertheless there is judicial. Do you understand who is to blame? conditionally, right? Yes, you understand, and there in The plot says where the accident happened, that as if it happened and so on, right? That if you feed it to Ilemu, like this all these pdfs, there are a billion of these pdfs, which have accumulated over the years independence of all judicial decisions, which were published by the courts, and he eats and reads all these PDFs, including handwritten text, which is on these It's written in PDFs and sorted by a specific format. way, and then you blur out these accidents in different areas of the city, intersections. And then you take the data to from the city monitoring system traffic and you start to look, and how are yours How do these cars even drive, how does each one The car is driving, and it's driving faster. flow or slower than flow, and for what reasons What intersections does she pass through, map there the weather, for example, because you have again, there is historical data on weather, on ice, for example, there the last ones, damn, there are a lot of years there. Yes. A and you can see how, for example, its probability, how often it is in There is ice all over the place. Maybe it's like this a person who generally has a car at home leaves at this time? No, I won't go. There are such people, it's true. And they, obviously, their credit risk should cost less. And it’s as if we never had this. opportunities, but in reality to collect such a large amount of knowledge, their work out adequately, even simple ones correlations can be found in them, not to mention that which often helps us find some relationships between the data, which are not at all obvious how to look for. Well, that is, it’s not just a correlation. between there are a couple of fields to look for, and which ones are obvious, and even in this there is a lot of awesomeness meaning. But there are many others amazing things, what's the color of yours? T-shirts, yes, can affect your credit risk through some more complex things. Aa and here I am, you know, I feel like a scientist, actually, which now has the opportunity to decipher some piece of this formula God, but in order to better understand, How does this world work? That is, Well, what is the probability that this could happen? happen, how to make it so that you didn't pay when you buy insurance, so that you don't have to pay for the agent's work, which, I don’t know, there is 30-40% for myself takes this bonus so you don't have to pay for the one who drives fast, but paid specifically for myself and received some honest risk, in the end, because we understood you. We realized there, well, relatively speaking, that You can get a loan much cheaper, even if you don't have a permanent job, for some reason, because, well, here there are many factors that speak that you have good financial position. You have many rich friends, I don't know, you have a lot of them too rich friends. I don't know what you have there, huh? you have a lot of something expensive you have property and you are very responsible Human. Well, basically, yes, and it's there for some things it is clear. And that's why I'm doing this job, which which we are now We do, it's very cool. And on the other hand sides, you see, that's when we they designed a mortgage and here it is In Kazakhstan, we have a dream born. A Let's make mortgages normal. A because before that the mortgage was occupied there, I don't know, there are 2 weeks, at best In this case, the benchmark was rejected. And so on two months of correspondence with the bank be concluded there. Give that, give it back this, bring this, and do this examination. Well, listen, it's possible. somehow this. Why does it take 2 weeks? do? This is really weird. Let's just engineer the process. What's in it? can it be optimized? It turned out that, in general, Kazakhstan is a cool country, there You can engineer almost anything. That is, In the end, we completely got rid of us all people from the process. That is it turned out that we don't need any of them person to issue a mortgage credit at no stage, nor remotely, not at all. That is, We have a fully automatic system decision-making on registration of a transaction, carrying out calculations. And they did it biometrics, went to the databases, then to the databases changed something. And if it's some kind of secondary transaction, a notary is needed there, who will check if you are drunk there and so on, then they connected it separately notary in this process, which is there with I had a conversation with you about Zunu, yes, in online and put my check mark there the system that you are capable, you are there no one is forcing and so on. And here it is and this gave a very big jump in efficiency big, because it turned out that We get a real mortgage there in 2 hours. That is, we have a mortgage record there. deals from customer onboarding, opening bank accounts until full completion transfer of ownership rights 2 hours. Damn, in America that's $10,500. average cost of origination of one mortgages. The loan amount is different there. U There are 50,000 dollars of us in Kazakhstan on average the mortgage size was subsidized mortgage. The cheapest housing that financed for young families. A, and it would be like if we were spending 10,000 for the registration of this loan, of course, that the business would be completely unprofitable. Cool. This is essentially what is allowed make technologies from yours story that it is so fair an assessment of you, yes? That is, due to the fact what we have learned to analyze qualitatively you and your activities and so on, we can give you fair offer, no mortgage Your price includes errors and flaws other people. This is great. And, but the second one this thing is for our business, I, well, I can't help but brag, we are like us launched and the referral program and, ah, I'm talking about I probably wrote a couple of articles about this in there in the year eighteenth-nineteenth I was just talking about how in general financial will look there organizations of the future and how quickly it can be flip the market under certain conditions. Well that is, earlier, you see, here is the process issuing a credit card, that is, he I was there for, like, 2 weeks It used to be normal. Then, of course, banks have optimized this, optimized, as if there, well, I don’t know, maybe five years ago this process was done there somehow roughly 2 hours. Ah, but you need to Tinkov learned how to be a courier there send to the department before that came, you there this ba this this I took the card, and even the trick with the couriers turned out to be very cool from the point of view productivity growth in there for work the bank itself. And bring you a map turned out to be much more profitable than you in bring the department. And here, well and here we looked, you see, like a bank he's sitting here, he built it, I don't know, he has there are a thousand branches, for example, there all over Kazakhstan, and they trained there staff, they started payroll there some projects, for my whole life They opened it, I don’t know, there are 8,000 8 million cards there. This is truly a huge job. This one People did the work, damn, for real. It took years of physical work to get it done print these cards, distribute them, and, activate PIN codes, I don't know, there issue internet banking, then something else do. Oh, and okay, then this It's sped up, the card can be issued there in 2 hours, but you have a drip. A How many cards can you issue for day? 500, I don't know, there are 1,000 cards. You can give it out. You just have, like, How many of these cards do you have for each branch? You can give it out. You have five people. Anyone can give it out, I don't know, there are 20 there cards per day. He can't do it any faster just deal with the design of some documents, something else. Ah, well, later it turned out that, okay, you can generate cards are completely online, and theoretically you have an opening process the accounts can be absolutely automatic. It seems like you have a branch none are needed, and you can I don't know, I'll be registering at the same time 70,000 people. Here at the same time You don't need to register for this. 70,000 operators. Ah yes, definitely we need a system that will handle the load withstand. And this is, damn, complicated. the system, in fact, because it is not do you know what exactly you can have? fall off. And the system is so It's complicated, that's true, well, for now you won't test it live, you won't you'll find out what breaks in it. And in and this a huge number of such technical risks for the entrepreneur, well, how to take off with a product that Then something will start to malfunction somewhere. And with what? We encountered this too. Actually, with the emergence of Apple Pay and Google Pay tacticized maps as such, it turned out that even cards were printed and no need to send. Yes. It is enough to give his just a button so he could add it to I'll give myself a vp and that's it. Yes, you really are you press one button, you can do this Use the card immediately. Opened an account and You can pay in 5 minutes. Ah, then Do you have a truly full-fledged living a client who can be online top up this account, withdraw from it online him money, approach online I don't know whether to put it in the ATM or not. withdraw money, pay online any store in the world. And for you too for this there is no need to have any department or one operator. Here we are locked, when superup, we launched in Superup, among other things, we did cool loyalty program. We They gave out good big cashbacks to people, and especially on its ecosystem, where We have a good margin. We are quite began to generously share the margin with their clients and say: "Guys, here you are, We give you our shares. That is, when we We're making money off of you, Yeah. we earn money some of our operating margin, we give you part of this margin with our own shares." Yeah. You're becoming ours. shareholders. That is, it seemed to me that super cool topic because, well, you no matter how you make money on your own clients, you also take them into the share, then they spend with you and at the same time you as if they are part of the share, they can become your shareholders. We are on actually survived and grew up there thanks to the fact that our clients are in we were invested. And in and actually, the second thing is, we launched referral program. Well, that is, like We have a cool product that is easy opens, in which there are free transfers that offer good cashback, and You can earn 2 bucks, there is 1,000 tenge, and then another two, another three bucks, If your tinder uses the map. Small money, actually, there $5 general incentive. And how which ones? we distributed, and there were from two to five, if the conditions in the first month will be if it's done then five, and if it's not done, then two. Yes. Given that average cost of client exclusion in digital banking is considered to be from 40 to 270 dollars. And 40 is just awesome benchmark. And we received this in January Recently 73,000 registrations in one day. That means we had 73,000 cards opened. in one day just by doing this social effect. Yes. Here. AND you see, it's just like that too information like this wasn't available before even spread. That is, here it is theoretically get such networking effect, that people themselves find you they will skip it because they like it product, they really enjoy it, they really think that with this friends It's cool to talk about this. Well then There is a high level of trust there. With one sides, it's a bank, yes, all deposits insured, that is, there are no problems, and you can do it there, I don’t know, get a couple of bucks by recommending a really cool bank with good, beautiful cards on which you have Batman is drawn, and he glows there, when you apply it. Oh, and you too The cashback there, I don't know, maybe 7%, uh, some services. Ah, and here it is People started using this product for real share. And we got there, I don’t know, The average price there is 3 dollars client quasi-positions and just history, right? That means you have 70,000 quasi-statements there. day and you aquasize 365 days a year clients. You don't have days off, you there is no night, you have nothing at all. U you, roughly speaking, when clients want unbor, then they will be onborded. That is it turns out, well, you can have 2 million clients per month to onboard in the country where he lives 20 million people. It doesn't last long. This gives us enough supply for 10 months. Well, you Just imagine. That means you can become the most the largest bank in the country in 10 months. This is theoretically possible. It is not at all a fact that we will become one. But from this, as if from this, this shift, huh? That is, people built there great banks, they built it for 30 years and thought that everyone else should too It will take you 30 years to catch up with them, and you then at 10 months and you have it as if we have it in one of our services, where we It seems we are just good and good we achieved the effect on this watermelon, where ours is Grocery store online, We had a 5% share of payments with FreedM cards months ago less than 1%. That is, almost All the cards flew past our ban. Let's It's just that people came specifically to litter, right? And now there 38% in the issue of our cards. Oh, that's cool. And it seems to me that this is very important component. That is, on the one hand It's a convenient product, I don't know if there's a user there.

experience and so on and so forth and so on... and so on. Marketing is some other way sides, it seems to me, are very important a component of the brand as a whole. That there is due to the fact that you are on the market in different areas it has been possible for quite a long time to maintain this brand, let's say, then when some product appears, the person is like, "Oh, well, these are the ones guys, I trust them." Let's a little bit about the brand. Look, how it would be Of course, it's a cool product - that's it ok, but no matter how cool the product is equally strong brand. What do you think? in today's world is components of a strong brand? That is So if I'm building a company, what do I need? to do so that my brand gains popularity as if weight and strength, so that people would begin love him, believe him, trust him and come to his products in the future? Trust is one of the main products ecosystems. I performed like we did there was a wonderful chess tournament in New York, and we did a conference in one of the days off. I had something like that the task I had to do was sort of chess and finance in such a discussion as this between What do chess and finances. I just said that, Well, it's like an ecosystem - that's what it is. a chessboard, and the king in it is trust. And actually, like, you have all the figures work one way or another with one goal: to increase the number trust, general trust in the ecosystem. That is, they must protect the king, in fact, interact effectively with each other. And therefore, yes, trust in general, the primary history for everything. A There are services that are more efficient in themselves trustworthy, there are services that are less trust. There are services that people use They easily trust money. There are services, people trust money to very hard. In this sense, for example, a bank a pretty good trust generator, and the relationship with the bank is long-term, as a rule, in most cases. AND If a client comes, it's not easy for me. achieve it usually, but lose it too quite hard. Mobile tariff Clients change easily. In fact, in On average, in Kazakhstan they change more often than once a year. And this is a great tragedy for mobile operators because they a lot of money is spent on re-acquisition their own clients. And here it is I repeat, banks are not like that once a year they change. That is, the client lives in the bank very long, as a rule. That is him lives for years, right? And here is your strength, firstly, in that, Well, trust is the result of success. joint activities, including. That There are times when people understand you, well, that's it. there is when they think that they are you understand, and when they do interactions with you and they get what they want, what do they expect to get, probably? This trust is born in some world. That is, conditionally, the coincidence of expectations with reality, right? Yes. That is, here you have it there must be, firstly, experience of joint work activities, and this experience of joint There should be a lot of activity. That is There's a story like this during the elections touch. So you need to do seven there are different touches on your voters so that he will vote for you. In marketing it's the same thing. Well, that is to say eh, actually some services, in some services need much more to be injured than in elections. Well, that is to say sometimes to get a vote, I don't know, there it is much easier to be for the president than achieve the opening of a bank card. Well, yes, because it's a bank card. For you, it's your money specifically. A There is a direct correlation here. A, Well, in general, the point is that the same the most important thing is to do different touches. And in this sense, the ecosystem is also cool. Because you, uh, can touch dial in different ways. That is you I don't know, I sold him some groceries there, sold him an airline ticket, sold him a ticket to the concert, sold him insurance, sold in the end, I don't know, there, mortgage. After that he will take you away it will be a pleasure with you invest, buy complex products some for which trust is needed much more. again he knows you as a person knows your family and he thinks he knows He saw your family there, your interview. I read your post on Instagram. I liked it, that is, it is also different the communication we make with people the more understandable we become to people than we have more of these different communications we're actually recruiting themes in the end It seems to us that there will be more people Trust and of course brands are the easiest is always associated with people. And in this and strength and weakness. There are brands that, Probably things in themselves. Well, that's JP. Morgan. Jamie Dimon is probably cool. Dude, but JP Morgan is way more a famous brand than Jamie Dimon, as its CEO. Yes. But in reality, well, how It would be very difficult to build a brand that becomes higher than the founder, but if you are the founder, then most likely, how would people trust people in the end account, not companies. So, as it were here is your integrity in relationships, in team, in your relationship with clients and your clarity and transparency will determine trust in to your family, to your company, to your employees and other things. That is trust is quite integral thing, and it is very important to maintain it, then you can't eat it A, well, and probably such also a relatively obvious story that Here is America, it is still holding up. Why Is the dollar such a cool thing? Because Americans, however, consider trust a very important value. That is, they For some reason, they've been enjoying it for a very long time now, that they trust each other. Oh and this, Well, that is, they paid with checks there, no I know, it was probably about 10 years ago They just stopped paying. That is, people came to the grocery store, wrote Here's a check for you. Well, there's yours, sort of. allow your bank to access my account write off 14 dollars, 15 cents for here these products. And who the hell knows, there are those these 14 dollars or not. That is you give me this check, and people trust you. that they would like to tell their bank they will give you your check later, and on your there will be enough money in the account in order to somehow pay off these products. Damn, this theme worked. for decades, despite the fact that they didn't know how to check these checks very, very much for a long time. And it's the same with credit cards. It was, actually, at first. before we learned to do everything electronically authorization, check your balance and do a bunch of other complicated things there are many more things that, by basically, you had a transaction going on, yeah, sort of formally, but in reality the transaction happened much later. Yes, yes. That they are literally there, that is, they made a slip I sent it by mail to my bank, yours the bank sent it to the bank that issued your card. And they are only there then we figured out what actually happened it happened, yes, and these calculations, they that's why all these cards were credit cards, what if they gave you a gold card, then you are a respected person, you generally You can trust whoever got the status. So It still lingers in them in the same way American Express and so on, whatever it is these status cards are drawn. This Cool. That is, relatively speaking, a poor person won't get a platinum map. This is like an indicator, as it were. that, yes, this is an indicator of your credit limit. This is just visual indicator. So you don't have to call. to the bank and know that, well, like Tens of thousands trust this man dollars if he gets a platinum card gave. But what if he has a green one there? card, then, well, conditionally, they trust him 1,000 dollars, something like that small. Well, that is, if you can't check your balance there and authorization, ask Amex itself how much is possible he should spend it, well, you can there assume that 1.3 dollars there, well, you can definitely take it based on the color of the card. Yes. Yes, absolutely. This, I repeat, is society, which this trust is very long capitalized because, you know, You can choose not to build, or you can choose not to build complex authorizations, cybersecurity, if you have a relatively low crime, people trust each other, You can pay by checks. This is basically it comfortable. I wrote out a check at the store and gave it to him. his, everything, for you transaction happened. And what about the banks then? 2 weeks will settle accounts with each other, You don't care anymore. And for you, as for user, the product works well. Here so in fact, as if developed countries with a high level of trust, such like the United States, very slowly implement any innovations. They have it anyway Everything is fine. Well, yes, that's exactly it a story about checks. I remember the first time, when I came into contact with this in the States then they told me: "Write out a check." I like: "What do you mean, a check?" They tell me: "Do you have a checkbook?" I speak: "What checkbook?" Then I realized, You're not joking, I physically have a receipt. book. But further surprise was here, when I came here with a checkbook, I came here, yes, and I filmed for the first time apartment, they tell me: "We need four "Chekalo." I say: "What check?" says: "Well, you should have opened an account in bank, you have a checkbook." And I like: "Seriously." I mean, I literally must write the amount on paper. They say: "Yes, and what's more, we don't we'll write it off, and you have four checks, you put it in, and we'll have it on date appointments will be written off." I think: "Oh my God, this is terrible." And this one The thing is, like, the funniest thing is It works and seems to work and this is what he uses. And why change this? One more question about trust. And look, these ones

the things you told, you are inside companies when you form yours marketing strategy, of course, is there some kind of performance marketing, Yes, how do you buy customer traffic there? and so on, but from this point of view these are the elements that make up trust, these are such planned things, which you think through and turn to there your attention or is it more like this contextual thing situational, which happens, and you in general you try to do what will happen strengthen the brand, not destroy it? And I have a deep conviction that It is impossible to do this on purpose. This very intuitive and situational almost Always. This is just your reflection. culture. And in me sometimes People like to ask me the question: "And "Are you responsible for the third?" Well, very many people are completely sincerely not They believe that I answer there myself in the third. A but unfortunately, I understand that, Well, it's impossible to do many things. specially. Ah, well, that is to say, you need to be some absolutely brilliant person, which neither I nor any of my friends It certainly isn't. That is what we have there people said, I don’t know, here we are happened, we had a technical issue There was a failure there 4 months ago, we have a something glitched and at some point release, and test notifications went into the main outline and got stuck there. Yes. And in the end our clients got something There are, damn, more than 100 pushes on your own apku. All clients, all clients in general each bank received more than 100 pushes, there is one push every minute. And we They just seriously screwed me over all its clients. We, how would we? when we more or less realized that this is not test pushes, they are working quite well into the real contour, people started in general ask what's going on. We went out with fairly adequate communication. We they apologized and said, "Well, guys, Here you have five of ours for every push coins, five of our small shares crushed. as an apology. And we are fine they explained there that we have it happened, as if they had done such a thing a kind of airdrop, as they like to speak, essentially speaking, and it's the same thing the most there crypto community. In the end it worked out Great, we really activated ours base. And this definitely didn't happen on purpose. A then everyone said that you This was specially invented for this purpose activate clients because we really activated their clients. A, certainly, as we would do very aggressive action towards to their clients, they overwhelmed them with meaningless messages and spammed their name. And then, well, adequately reacting to this story. Moreover, You know, it was funny. I wrote down mine this rils of mine with which I explain, what happened to us and how we dealt with it all we will fix it. Like, consider the reels, we for each one, we'll pay one there your coin, which was then around there It cost five tenge, which is about 1 cent. Yes. Ah, and nothing more. There are five of us, I think. They paid five coins, in short, 5 each cents for each of these. And the point was the fact that I ran out of zoom and another one started there in 5 minutes. And at I was there for really 5 minutes. I tried, I called our chairman and said: "How many of them did you send approximately?" Well, I say, at least make a guess. He says: "Well, about 60." It turned out that there almost 120. And then, when we recalculated, but I repeat, from this a cool communication came out, which instead of, well, it's terrible there anger hundreds of thousands of customers, and, led to the fact that, damn, clients met someone new product, took advantage of their card, received money with which it was possible to pay, I don’t know, there are two cups of coffee. Oh, and we really have it right The base was activated cool. Was straight a big flash mob, that is, companies sent out push notifications with meaningless contents to hype this up topic. That is, it actually worked out. to hype up your market with some Tukreto if this is not in your culture a certain train of thought and reaction on some things they are specially marketing efforts to create some kind of provocation is impossible, they all work completely natural or not at all it turns out that there is some kind of, Yes, here is some manager who is for you advised something for you I wrote some post, and it seems to me, Well, damn, it doesn't work like that, it's a kind of culture of response to everything you do, yes, it is conditional either you have DNA, and then you have the context is always approximately the same, or let's say it doesn't exist. And it will finish, if still the context is always different, well, that's it true, how is it not when your your personal social networks are managed by you Press service, this is [ __ ] not cool. This always looks very sad. Very It's sad, really. You shouldn't do that. A very small question about the ecosystem.

You said what you invested in a large number of startups that Here they are taking off. Can you tell us? Here look, it's clear that this is already like there would be startups, as I understand it, which more or less entrenched, yes, and it was it's clear that they are gaining some positions. But what other criteria do you use? did you watch it? The first thing is the quality there, I don't know if it was the team founders or what the most important thing when making a decision was who to invest in and in whom No? And the quality of the team is important. Very important. Here we must understand that in reality, especially startups in the relatively early stages when they still have a large share there is no market, their entire assessment is based on solely on the assessment of this very teams. That is, it always surprised me, like some, I don't know, there conditionally as some Y cominator Maybe I should evaluate something on the Sit round? $20 million when under Sid they have something like that business plan and here they are evaluating the project there are 20 million dollars. Damn, how is it possible? business plan valued at $20 million? And it turns out that it is possible. I haven't for a very long time I understood, as I later understood, based on what they, to what they fit things. They believe that there is a team that has there is such potential that these people labor, roughly speaking, can be assessed today actually 20 million dollars. Yes. That is You buy a team for 20 million dollars. literally. And this is this, well, and then you I just have to understand that it's like this your human resources are the only one resource that you have at all. All the rest is derived from this. That is the only asset of any company is People. And people will continue to attract money, I don't know, they'll find real estate there, they will buy goods, like everything that They will do anything. People are the most important thing assets. And if you found the coolest people, Yes, perhaps, theoretically this story, if you understand that you are like I'm ready to buy such people for 20 million dollars, no I know, they hire you on probation for a year, and even some kind of noncash due to the fact that business just appreciated them so much, gave them two million, and he only took 10% of it for himself companies, taking full risk. This it means that he actually took people there a job, well, for a very high salary. A Well, yes, there are people who Is it really possible to pay 20 million? dollars per year. It's absolutely awesome pays off. And they are much more productive, but there are very, very few of them, in fact, such people. So be careful when you just buy shares in a startup, at the idea level for some material money. Well then at least explain to yourself inside that you I don't know about this person there, if you The startup was valued at $2 million, in which there is nothing, then you are just ready, Guys, hire me for 2 million dollars or some kind of conditional income in the commitment they take dig into this project and spend your 2 million aa in well or something the amount you gave them. And the second one the factor we looked at was market share. That is, we had it again, Yes, it is difficult to evaluate people. These are cool They are not cool. That is, any guys, who come, are passionate about their work, They present something, not all of them achieve success in the end. Trackcord, uh, that's cool. And the larger your business, the later the round, in the more you enter, the more you have chances of survival and therefore often spend your time more productively if you big. So, we understand, for example, why should we touch anything there? the initial stages are definitely not necessary at all, and that's where it's already at an estimate in the tens You can enter millions of dollars, especially if the guys have already done something proven. That is, they are here, they are already here is there a second player in the market or is there a first one? a player in the market, even if the market is small, Let them be unprofitable, but I don’t know if they are They're building an express delivery service there. food, and then they build a shop and they already now I don't know, it's number one on the market and They grow very quickly, both in deed and in talk. some reasonable things and they look good as if they were formulating their thoughts normally and there is not one person there, but several and in general there is a pretty close-knit team there and In general, they did something before. And this these are all some pluses, which, Of course, they say that yes, in general We need to be friends with them at any cost. and we need to invest in them. It's clear, the less of these pluses you have the more you gain, the higher the risks will be. At other things being equal, the less reasonable pay at all for such an opportunity. Class. The final theme. And here I am today

asked a lot about the future, about some changes and so on. Is there in the area of ​​your vision is very an important thing, I don’t know, some very an important sector, something very important here a market segment or some important idea, which needs to be paid attention to, and I don't talk about this at all today asked. It's hard to say. Uh, and I, probably, with I’m trying very to many of my own, especially to some familiar entrepreneurs, representatives of some kind of middle class business, small business, that's it, uh, when They ask me for some advice, but I always say that invest, How about this, sign up for courses on artificial, by use artificial intelligence. Damn, them a lot, they are inexpensive and that's for sure will pay off. But pay, I don’t know, there’s 100 dollars, 50 dollars, see rate It's free on YouTube, after all. will be the best investment for you that you can do it. And invest in yourself Always. It's always a better investment and You can always invest in yourself when other things being equal. If you haven't learned it yet uh, it's good to own the art of writing queries element models, spend time on this and money. This will be the truth, the very truth a fantastic investment that you can do it. At the same time, it can be Well, I don't know, do you want to buy one for yourself? some expensive courses, buy yourself, want to buy a free course, Buy free courses. And everything will be very, everything will be given by the high swarm, in fact Actually, it's great here. Final blitz. A

book that changed my life. No, I didn't have such a book. Same, This answer also applies. And in your opinion, in What is the most important thing in the next decade? a skill for an entrepreneur who wants to succeed in the present or in one's future business? Adaptability, of course. That is, well, it is necessary continue to learn and adapt, no don't be afraid, take risks. OK. Advice to you eighteen years old. Ah, don't even try any alcohol. Do more sports and less in general worry about something. All It will be cool. Super. Thanks a lot, Timur. It's always very interesting to chat. And I don't know how it is it happens, but I hear it from you some things that at a moment in time They really resonate with me and respond to my own requests. It's always like that In fact, it is very valuable. And I always I understand that a huge number of people are watching us the number of entrepreneurs who also at this moment in time there are the same the most questions, and they get very important answers. So thank you big over time. Thank you for being in your a busy schedule for a few hours on me and on our listeners. This is unrealistic Cool. Yes, you know how to ask great questions. ask. Thank you very much. Thank you, Friends, who watched us until the end. If It was useful to you, definitely Subscribe to the channel, give it a like. Most importantly, share in the comments. conclusions, ideas, insights that We learned some things today. Exchange thoughts. There is always something very interesting there. space for discussion and inspiration. If you didn't like it, Click dislikes. Everyone, definitely Let's remember. All, Thank you. Bye, friends. In this integration I want to tell you about mine already product. This is Planet. My subscribers in Telegram was the first to know about it, and Thanks to you, it sells well on VB. Thank you for sharing your feedback, including in stories. I try not to miss no publications. Well, well If you don't know, we recently Sales of the Planet glider have started, which opens access to the closed Telegram community with interesting people. achieved success in different spheres of life. The glider's contents are divided into two large parts, include tools for self-analysis and effective planning. The idea to create The glider was born in the team. Guys They presented it to me, and I immediately said: "We're doing it." I saw this as an opportunity create a product primarily for myself and the opportunity to share it with you. Pnet is designed to be aware of goals, prioritize and stay productive. Personally, it doesn't help me drown in details. You are planning not only day, but also week, month. do you see in front you see the whole picture and keep focus on priority tasks, not you're wasting your time. This sometimes it helps to slow down, analyze your goals and understand what what's really important and what's not. Plus me insisted on making the glider like this, so that it would be pleasant to hold in your hands. I wanted to use it every day. It definitely turned out to be a 10 out of ten. You will appreciate it. The second trick. Community. There is a QR code inside the planner. You scan and you end up in a closed group. Entrepreneurs, investors, scientists, athletes, experienced experts and only guys starting out on their journey. This the opportunity to find partners, performers or offer yourself to new position. So far we have released 5,000 copies and more than a thousand have already been sold. You can see the reviews in the card on Wibberries. So if you want organize your affairs or do a useful gift for loved ones, follow the link in the description or scan the QR code on the screen. Let's go.