Finding Clarity, Courage, and Community in Climate Action: A Conversation With Katharine Wilkinson

Thank you so much everyone for being here and before I introduce Katherine, I want to share um a video that is a bit of an introduction to climate wayfinding. So let us take a look not only at the beautiful book uh but also at this short video. It is no small thing to be human on earth. Here on this ground under these skies, we are home. So when the climate shifts and the places we love are hurting, it feels personal. We feel the tug to do something. But there are so many paths and so many saying, "Act now, do more, be better. " The heat, the seas, the losses are rising. Time is running out. Pause. Let's take a breath. Urgency and overwhelm keep us stuck. We don't need more information. We need orientation, a practice to find true north within the swirl. That's climate wayfinding. It begins with the questions we hold. What is mine to do? Where do I belong? what path is worthy no matter how rocky it gets. We look inward with care to follow our emotions and offer our superpowers. We look outward with curiosity to surface solutions and connect with community. And then we look forward not with certainty but courage to orient with vision and journey onward with a clear compass. Each of us is a node of possibility. Whoever we are, whatever we've got to give. And when one connects to another, nodes become networks. Scattered concern becomes shared direction. And we realize I am not too small. I am not too late. I am an essential part of Earth's abundance. And when we find our place within it, the healing begins, right? So, that's a bit of an introduction to climate way finding. Again, before we introduce Katherine, just want to invite folks to take out your phone if you want to scan the QR code. We'll also be dropping a bunch of these links in the chat as we go along. Um, this goes, the QR code goes to the climate wayfinding website where you could explore the book, you could lead your own reading group, you could spread the word. Um, there's so much else I could say about this. Uh, but without further ado, I actually want to welcome in our featured guest today. And so, it is my distinct honor and privilege to introduce our featured speaker, Dr. Katherine Wilkinson, who is a best-selling climate author, teacher, creator, and Time magazine named Katherine as one of 15 women who will save the world. Her books, including climate wayfinding, which I will hold up right now, healing ourselves and the planet we call home, uh, and also All We Can Save, which I have behind me in case folks are wondering. The book Draw Down, which is also on my shelf, um, are just some of the works that Katherine's been part of bringing to life. And there's so much else I could share. U you might know Katherine from the All We Could Save Project, from a matter of degrees podcast, from the newsletter Human on Earth. Uh but I am so thrilled not only to have Katherine as a guest, but because Katherine was one of the folks who helped five and a half years ago hire me at Project Drawdown. So uh it's amazing that that's how our journeys met and thrilled to be here with you now, Katherine. So please everyone in the chat a warm welcome to Katherine Wilkinson. Matt, thank you for such a generous introduction. And this does feel really sweet that as you were coming into Project Drawdown, I was turning my attention to the All We Can Save project. Um, and so this feels overdue for us to get to have a little moment of collaboration. So, thank you. And great bookshelf, I'll say. — No, thank you. Yeah, it's the two just the two of us having this moment and hundreds of our closest friends. So, Uh it's great to be here but I'm really thrilled for this conversation one to dive a bit into the climate wayfinding book and have you share about that but as we start out I gave sort of your bio introduction but I want to ask you Katherine like just as grounding for folks very generally speaking like what led you into this work for those who might not be aware. So, I have zigged and zagged around

climate now for over 27 years, which seems sort of uh sort of shocking, but I think like a lot of people, I came into this work kind of through two entwined angles. Um, one was education and the other was witnessing the harms that are unfolding on our planet. And for me, that happened when I was 16. I spent a semester in high school at an amazing experiential environmental school called the Outdoor Academy. So, I was living in the woods in western North Carolina with 25 kids, reading Mary Oliver's poetry, reading Daniel Quinn's novel, Ishmail, Annie Dillard. We were kind of, you know, immersed in all of these sustainable practices with how our tiny little community was running. But I was also encountering the wounds of the extracted economy as they play out in southern Appalachia. Coal mining, — pollution, clearcuts um for industrial timber. And so I was both like profoundly enlivened and profoundly heartbroken. — And I still have the journal that I had at that time. And I wrote on a page in that journal, want to help the world be connected with the earth, change the way I live. And I can remember this absolute like steadiness in my hand, Matt, of just like so much clarity um writing that down. But the paradox of calling sometimes is that we have certainty and uncertainty in the same breath, right? So, I really had no idea what that would mean for my life or work. Um, you know, all of it, activism, every piece of it was opaque, even though I was so like my compass was so clear. And in a lot of ways, this body of work really reaches all the way back to that time and what it has meant to navigate a life of just being human on a planet that is changing as much as this planet is changing, but also a human who wants to help, right? Who wants to be part of mending and healing this extraordinary amazing earth we get to call home. — Wow. I think it's really powerful just hearing that really familiar uh like thing that happens for many of us where we have our heart and it might go in the right place and even our heads maybe our gut is too but we don't necessarily take action and go from the person who cares or knows that a problem exists and needs to be fixed to doing something and I think it's fascinating of course I mentioned the draw down book which you were the lead author of I mentioned the all we can save book as well. But when you think about climate wayfinding, — not just the book, but the program overall, which I'm sure you could tell us a bit about, like what role do you think that plays, especially in contrast to some of the previous work that you put out into the world. — So, we have many climate books that talk to us and obviously I think there is a really important role for those. I've written and edited some. Um I think they're enormously valuable. But in this moment, I find just like that little line in the short film says that we don't necessarily need more information. We need help on orientation. — And I think that is kind of the fundamental idea of climate wayinding, that we're living in a world where our maps are coming up short. And that's literally true. As the climate crisis reshapes shorelines, glaciers melt, forests and entire towns go up in flames, you know, entire countries in some cases are facing real loss. And the external maps that are coming up short also pair with the internal maps that are coming up short, the family maps, the societal maps. Like how do we make sense of all of this? um how do we find our way? And I don't think we're just going to get new maps. I think we have to grow our capacities for navigation and for, you know, for recognizing that a compass is not just a tool that we hold, but a compass is something that we are. And so we started um four years ago now at the All We Can Save project building and testing this experiential learning journey that we called climate wayfinding that would help people do three things. Look inward with care, look outward with curiosity and look forward with courage as kind of these core intersecting practices of wayfinding. And it has grown across the

US and Canada in four years. We have facilitators at some 75 colleges and universities running this program with students who are you know in such a ripe wayf finding time but it's not just students who need this right um I have hit crossroads and deadends at many junctures of my own journey um and I think a lot of people in this time are finding themselves lost directionless, deeply in need of reinvigoration. And so what the book hopes to do is take everything that we've learned from that program, ideas, practices, prompts for journaling, creative mapping exercises, guided meditations, all of it, and brings it into a package that anyone can use to do this exploration and sense making together. Because at the end of the day, wayfinding, I think, is not best done alone. It's best done in community. It's really powerful and something that really resonates with me because looking at I mean you know the evolution of project drawdown in so many ways and I'm sure many folks could speak to this but even from where I sit we've [snorts] really gone from okay here are the solutions that our world needs to answering the questions of what can I do what's my role how do I show up which really you know I think it's you know to look at storytelling for a second It's putting who was formerly the audience at the center of the story. So, it's going from, hey, we're talking to you and giving you information to involving you in the story as, you know, the hero that you and your community have been looking for potentially or one of the heroes that you and your community have been looking for. I am curious, Katherine, from your perspective, — why do you think so many people do feel stuck right now even when they do deeply care? Um, and even when there are, you know, a number of resources out there when it comes to bringing climate solutions to life. — Thank you for that question, Matt. And I do just also want to celebrate the work that you've been doing on telling these stories, right? taking climate solutions from these abstract things into things that there are just people who are willing to pick them up and move them forward where they are in their contexts in their communities and like that is what all of this is about at the end of the day. — I appreciate that. But it is a good question like why aren't more people doing what exactly the folks who you've been helping bring those stories forward and I think there are a few things I think one is that — the emotions that come up around this topic are really big and we might fear grief we might feel fear we might feel anger a lot of young people say they feel a sense of betrayal Right? And these are big, heavy, distressing feelings to have. — And where do we take them? Right? There are not a lot of places that are like, "Yes, you and your climate emotions. Come in like they're welcome. We'll hold them with compassion and process them and listen to them and see what they might have to say. " So I think that's one thing is that when we don't have space to work with those emotions generatively and have support for them, they can become sources of paralysis. the stuckness. Another one that I hear a lot from folks is, "Well, I don't really have anything to offer. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a policy wonk. you know, I'm whoever I am, right, in whatever life that I live. And so there's this tension around who belongs, right? Whose story is this? And are we all participating in it? Yes. Yes, we are. And we have a place in this work simply because we are humans. And whatever our gifts are, whatever our talents are, they have a role to play. might take a little more work to connect the dots, right, than somebody who's, — you know, gone and studied atmospheric physics, for example. Um, but that sense of like kind of selling ourselves short before we even give it a go, I think, is one of the challenges. And then there's the challenge of isolation that we know that upwards of 89% of people around the world want to see more action from governments. Majorities of people are concerned. They are worried about the mess that we are in. — But here's the kicker. Most think we are a minority. So we have a climate majority, but it believes it's a minority, right? And so that means we're not talking about this

enough with family and friends. We're not bringing it into the workplace. classroom because we think, — you know, we we think we're not in it together when actually we are. And so that's again why this the piece around community as solution is so important because it's how we cope. It's how we stay inspired in this work and it is certainly how we make change. — I love that. That was amazing. Just encouraging folks to react in the Zoom here uh with any of your hearts and everything else because it's so amazing to hear that um — that we do need to be in it together. One of the things that I've had come up before because I often refer to like people showing up in their climate superpowers or, you know, people being these climate heroes. And I realized and I've learned that one of the perceptions that people often have is that when we talk about hero, they might be thinking of like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, — actual cape stuff. — Yeah. Actual cape stuff. But and those individual heroes, not necessarily the like Captain Planet and the Planeteers or Power Rangers or whatever is the generational like equivalent for folks. And I like to remind folks that like being a hero doesn't need to be an exclusive thing. We could each do that in our own way. And so before I ask you the next question, Katherine, I actually want to ask our audience as we talk about what it is that the world needs. am curious and maybe I'll come back to it in the chat once as we're talking about it but um you know in a word or in a couple words I'm curious for folks — like what do you feel the world needs right now to move climate solutions forward? I know again Katherine we're having this conversation but um it's always interesting to invite folks all over the world literally who are tuning into that. So, um, as we continue this conversation, Katherine, I invite folks to drop them in the chat and I'm going to be really excited to check that out more later. — Yeah, I'm excited for that. — I am. Yeah, go for it, Catherine. — Yeah, I was just going to say too, Madd, and let's not muddle this the prompts, but there's a when we run the climate way finding program, we always do opening and closing circles. And one of the ones that I love is when we do everyone shares and it popcorns around. Everyone shares a gift or a talent or a superpower that they want to boldly claim — in their climate contribution and it is gorgeous, right? And it ranges from like I cook amazing dinners and I love hosting dinner parties. I'm going to do that with climate. I'm an extraordinary teacher and I'm going to develop new lesson plans. I am a bulldog of a lawyer and I'm going to figure out how to use that. Right? Like and so something about just saying yes, I have these gifts like we all have them. We all are an expression of life force in some way and like by God I'm going to bring that in this moment. I'm so glad you shared that because it's a good reason for me to mention that uh I'll be part of the next climate wayfinding facilitator training coming up this year. So I'll see you there. I'll start it. It's funny because I think for so many of us we know our superpowers, but I'm going to have that question in the back of my head. And I think it is important that we boldly claim those things. So often we're in positions where we could boldly lean into what the problems are and not — yeah, — you know, what our power is to actually show up and do something. And maybe it's a drop in the bucket, but all those drops in the bucket matter to make an impact. So I mean, — it's the only math that makes sense, right, Matt? I mean, we know we have this extremely global, extremely long-term, extremely existential challenge that is being perpetuated right in some pockets of power. And the only to use a you know nonprofit term like the only theory of change that makes sense to me is that we have this incredible upwelling of people who are like I will lead wherever I am. I will lead in whatever context I find myself in because that is the only it's like we have to have the mycelial network to counter you know the topdown decisionm that's gotten us in into this mess. So it's not going to look like big massive power. I mean hopefully it will look more like that like CEOs and heads of government like doing the right thing but it has got to look like all of us. It absolutely has to. Oh, that's so powerful. There's Look, it's We're seeing again folks reacting, folks loving this. Also putting in — I know now I'm doing a Wednesday afternoon sermon. Here we are.

— No, I mean that's Look, that's what we all need apparently right now. So, it's appreciated. But and speaking of I think this is a good time. I mean, look, I have obviously I have my copy of the climate wayfinding book coming out soon for folks, but I am curious, Katherine, and I, you know, I there's other questions I have in mind, but I'm curious if there's anything that you feel called to share from the book especially or any passages. Um, the floor is yours. I'm just happy like everyone else, I think, just to hear from you. So, — Oh, man. — You could share whatever it is. — That's so lovely, Matt. Um, — no problem. — There's so much. That's great. There's so much that's great in this book. Maybe um one of the really fun things about this book, there are essays by me in every chapter. There are also lighting the way stories in every chapter, which is based on — the journey and insights that another climate leader brings forward, including the wonderful Dr. Kate Marvel, who's on project drawown team. Um Kate is the story in the chapter on getting our bearings. um which is really wonderful — and there is poetry throughout this book. Um in some ways I think of this program as kind of the applied environmental humanities, right? Like we need art, we need poetry, we need song, we need this like nourishment of the human spirit that that brings. And so I kind of want to read a poem. is that um maybe I'll do the one because there's a good bit about project drawdown and solutions in the chapter that is called surfacing solutions and the poem in that chapter I'll hold it up because there's some cool uh art in here. Um, this poem is by Jane Hersshfield and it's called Optimism and it's a short one. So, if there are poetry haters out there, don't worry, it'll be over. It'll be over soon enough. Um, so Jane writes, "More and more I have come to admire resilience. Not the simple resistance of a pillow whose foam returns over and over to the same shape, but the suous tenacity of a tree. Finding the light newly blocked on one side, it turns in another. A blind intelligence. True. But out of such persistence arose turtles, rivers, mitochondria, figs, all this resonous, un retractable earth. And I love that poem because it for me is a reminder that we're participating in this much bigger life force that has been rolling forward for 3. 8 billion years, right? the pinch that we're in, the the moment that we are feeling at this kind of nexus of peril and possibility of distress and dreaming. Life has been figuring this out for so long. We have inherited that. We have the chance to have that be part of our legacy that we give to future generations, both humans and more than humans. And that for me helps me feel small in a good way that I am this node of possibility in this much bigger web and community of life. Um — so yeah that's a that poem for me is one I go back to that's just like yeah this gave us turtles it gave us mitochondria. It gave us figs. Like we've got this. We we've got this. — Yeah. I think that's powerful and I love that you referenced that and the surfacing solutions chapter because that was also on my mind and I'm I am curious just thinking about that chapter more broadly um like from your perspective summing up what that chapter is about and even the role of solutions um maybe in the way that we think about them at Project Draw Down what does that look like for individuals? We've talked so much about and I know you talk so much about the ache and the kind of the challenges for folks but when it comes to actually — you know maybe taking what we have here at project drawdown and then pairing that with the work that you do around climate wayfinding what do you hope solutions and implementing them look like for individuals? Yeah. So, of course, we have to have solutions, right? We they are an essential piece, but I noticed this when the draw down book came out and I was doing a lot of speaking about it and talking to folks. Um, 100 solutions is a lot of solutions, right? And we know we need them all. I think sometimes people thought they were

ranked in that book because it was like, well, we'll just pick the top 10. And it's like, no, no, no. Forest for the trees. we've got to have all the trees, you know. Um, but for an individual to think about what am I going to do in my personal life, in my professional life, what am I going to focus on in our public life, — you know, the analysis is still leaves us with an overwhelming toolbox of things we might pick up. And so in this session of the program and in this chapter of the book, we invite kind of yes, let's bring the mind of the analyst because we have to make sure that we're spending our dollars, our time, our energy on things that might actually meaningfully work. That's very, very important. Um, and I think Project Drawdown has done such good work to say dut over here, this is not a real solution. — These are the real solutions. But we pair the mind of the analyst with kind of the spirit of the artist, right? Where does our curiosity lead us? Our sense of energy, our wonder. What do we want to be in creative relationship with as we do what James Baldwin described um we've made the world we're living in and we have to make it over. and he wasn't talking about climate change, but that description for me, we've made the world we're living in and we have to make it over. It's like, yeah, that's it. That's the work. We don't know if we'll be 100% successful. We almost certainly will not be, but this is the task of our time. And we are here for whatever reason to be helpers and menders. So, I think it's really uh it's an exciting invitation to folks to think about Yeah. not just what I should do, what the top thing on the list is, but where I can really see myself investing over the long haul because we know that's what that is um ahead of us. And also, and I did this a bit in the draw down review, which some folks may know, kind of the follow-up publication to draw down — um — as I it's on my shelf also. I will not pull it out now over my shoulder, but it's there. We built in some perspective on accelerators for change. So if solutions are the things that actually deal with the pollution, the accelerators for change are kind of the conditions, creating the conditions that help things move forward. So changing policy, shifting capital. Um a really critical one is around reshaping narratives and culture. Um, and I think some of us who might not have one technical solution we really want to work on. There she is. Hi Draw down review. — It's been a while. There we go. minute. Um, you know, we might have an accelerator and I, you know, I think about you with this Matt like you are doing the storytelling work, the paradigm shifting work that is so important. Some folks are out there building power in our democracy so we can get good climate leaders elected to office, right? Like these are again an area where our energy and our sense of like vigor might help us um to identify and commit. — Oh, I love this so much. And look, there's so much that we could get into. We could be here for another hour. Also, I do want to make sure we're getting to some of the questions, but I did see in the chat folks were asking. So, the poem that Katherine read was Optimism by Jane Hersshfield. I also have it pulled up here in the book. Uh, and it's part of the surfacing solutions chapter of the book. So, there's a lot there to check out. But, you know, you were talking about uh so much there, Katherine. One, the future. You've also mentioned educators. And we had a number of questions that were really about uh just the you know what are the best ways to bring this type of work with climate wayfinding and climate education into the classroom. So you know there are a number of questions I have in front of me like uh you know how can we be sure that kids and young people are getting engaged with this but you know you've mentioned again working with a number of institutions what have you seen works effectively for engaging students and youth um to develop the skills and the understanding and the way finding in support of bringing solutions to life. Thank you for this question, Matt. And I saw at least one of our uh climate wayinding facilitators in the chat earlier, so there probably are more. And if they want to chime into the chat and add some of their insights. Um — but I think, you know, it goes back to the thing I said about information

versus orientation. We have been filling young people up to the brim with information about how bad things are, about the solutions that we have, but most of them are feeling like they have very little support on making sense of what does this mean for my life? How can I help? What might this look like as far as a job or a career? Right? all of these big questions are swirling around and a lot of times classrooms are meeting our intellectual needs but they're not really meeting our broader deeper human needs let's say um and so what's been absolutely just beautiful to see is the cohort of facilitators that we have and as you mentioned Matt we've got another hundred facilitators that are going to train with us in August so this is this beautiful growing community of practice um they're weaving giving it into all different academic disciplines. They're running it in the classroom. They're running it as co-curricular programming. Sometimes they're running it on retreat. And I loved, we just had some data come in from um a facilitator who's at a college in New York State. And one of the students said, "I think I learned more about climate change in 3 days than I have in three years. " — Wow. And that is the power of going beyond just the head to the heart and the hands, right? And having this [clears throat] holistic approach. Other students are talking about the power of feeling like they're in climate community for the first time, that they're not holding this alone. Others are like, "Oh, I'm being guided and and encouraged to explore what this could mean for my work life, right? like I this could actually be my vocation, right? I could have a climate career. Um but all of these things are so beautiful. And what I love the most about it, Matt, is that when you look at the solution set, there are a lot of things that are actually — rocket science. — Yeah. — But the human infrastructure of change, right? It does not have to be. We are really capable of giving each other what we need in this time. And if anyone's like, okay, classrooms, young people, climate education, like that feels, you know, that feels a little slow, a little long-term. Take the story of the amazing landmark climate ruling at the International Court of Justice last year that grew out of a classroom of law students in the South Pacific who were fed up with the levers that they could pull at the national level of these slow of these um low-lying island nations that are on the very front lines of climate change. And they said, "Look, you know, there's a world court. We need to take the world's biggest problem to the world's highest court. And if you had asked academics, politicians, strategists, they would have said, "No way. It'll never get through the UN General Assembly. It'll never see the light of day in the H. " But they ran the campaign. They built the legal strategy. And not only did it get to the International Court of Justice, the opinion that came down was so much bolder than anyone on the core legal team thought that it would be. And that is the power, right, of classrooms, of churches, of community halls, of the small spaces where power actually begins. Oh, — I love that. And it it's interesting just seeing some of the questions that folks have shared. One question that I think is a good follow-up to that because obviously I'm seeing in the chat lots of folks resonating with this work with climate wayfinding. How can folks bring climate wayfinding into their classrooms? What are some of the pathways for that? — So, there's a couple ways. If you're interested in the kind of full shebang facilitator training, um, please let us know. We are full up for the training this August, but we've got an interest form on our website, climatewavefinding. ear. and um and I'll uh I'll make sure we've got that. I think Lisa's got that to put in the chat, but you can let us know you're interested and we'll let you know when we've got another training coming up. Um but you don't need to wait for that. What is built right into this book are many of the exercises, many of the practices, and even these group agendas that you could bring into both formal and informal education spaces immediately. The book comes out on Tuesday. So, um it'll all be right there and we've got a body of supporting resources that are going to live on the website. Um yeah, it's uh it's it's really exciting actually to think about

how accessible this experience of climate way will be by virtue of this book, which uh a friend of mine said, you know, books are kind of the OG strategy for scale. I was like, — "Yeah, — yeah, I mean, yeah, you just need a library card and in this case, it might be good to have some internet access um where you can access the, you know, supporting content. Um, and you can roll. You could set up a reading group with friends, neighbors, colleagues. Um, you don't need to be a formal facilitator or a formal educator or a formal kind of convenor of space to be able to do this work with. Yeah. Your partners in good trouble. — Oh, I like that a lot. Partners in good trouble. Uh — that was a favorite of John Lewis, who was uh an amazing civil rights leader and longtime uh congressman based here in Atlanta. — I love all of the all the references you're making. What one question I have for you and also that came from the audience. Who are some of your inspirations, Katherine? — Oh my gosh. I mean, — hard question, — but this is kind of the amazing thing about being in climate, Matt, is that there is so much inspiration and I feel like I encounter new inspiration almost — every day, right? Because there are just extraordinary people doing this work. But a lot of the people that have been important sources of inspiration and also teachers for me in different ways are in these lighting the way stories. um in the book. So, Colette Pishan Battle um who's a climate justice leader in the Gulf South, Valerie Corttois who runs the indigenous leadership initiative in Canada and this amazing network of land guardians, WA John's and Billy Parish who are both amazing forces of nature for clean energy and solar but also there's a love story uh entwined in there which is pretty great. Wanjira Mathi who's the daughter of Wangari Mathi the amazing Nobel Peace Prize winner um who did such brilliant work in Kenya with the green belt movement but also just making the case for the connections between the environment and democracy and peace. Sherry Mitchell Winhamquaset who's a Wabanaki teacher and leader um whose amazing book sacred instructions is one I go back to all the time and I also uh there's a beautiful story in the book about sister true dedication who's a monastic with plum village this engaged Buddhist community that ticknot founded and um they are doing amazing work in partnership with Cristiana Faggeras to support climate leaders with kind of the you know the strength and the practices and insights of mindfulness um and Buddhism which I think just is a gift. It's an absolute gift to the movement. So that's my energetic uh pitch there and also the story of the ICJ case is there the students and believe it or not one of my best friends from graduate school who's a human rights lawyer who when we were in our 20s um living in England together she would say emphatically I am not an environmental lawyer I am a human rights lawyer. M — then lo and behold all these years later uh she was acting for Vanuatu in the Marshall Islands in the ICJ case. So you know look out look out world when all of these folks who have so many things to contribute realize oh yeah there's a place for that in climate. — Yeah. I mean I one I love you giving us our short the short list of some of your inspirations because I'm sure there are a lot more too and it's interesting like you mentioned um Wanjira Mthi but also thinking of Wangari Mthi I think of Clara Katango one of our draw downs neighborhood interviewees who directly you know a woman from an African woman who moved to Pittsburgh and worked with trees and was inspired by that and so one thing I always encourage and one thing I really love about the book and reading it is all of these stories that just remind us that we are not alone in taking action and showing up and being the change our communities need. — And so I like again, Catherine, we'll maybe we'll schedule a followup. We'll do this again at some point. Let us know. — We got to have a part two. Matt, — we'll do a part two if there's enough demand for it. But I want to ask you uh just one more question, Katherine. — For someone leaving this conversation and wanting to begin on their own climate wayf finding journey or climate solutions journey, whatever they want to term it, what would you invite them to do next?

Well, I would really invite folks to, you know, th this is a body of work that's been so thoroughly tested and honed over recent years. So, if you are feeling at a crossroads or feeling the need to kind of renew, see a fresh path ahead, please do check out the book. Um, but even if you are feeling really clear and really strong and really directed, I am almost certain that there are people around you who care about climate, who want to help, and who are feeling that sense of lossness or directionlessness. And so, see if you can bring them in to a conversation. This is we're not going to snap our fingers and magically have all of the solutions moving forward. We have to cultivate the people who are going to turn possibility into reality and that's a responsibility I think for all of us. Um and we've got lots of resources that can help folks do that. — I was going to say I know the book has many resources. The All We Can Save Project has a number of resources. Climate Wayfinding So I'd encourage folks to dive into all of that. But because we're basically at time, just one like could we just give a lot of love, a round of applause, uh, celebration in the chat. I know Katherine and I will see folks in the chat. And thanks again everyone for being so engaged along the way with your reflections. I am going to have to take maybe like a whole day just to go through all the responses because there's so much in the chat there. And we will be sharing the recording of this. But again, just thank you so much, Katherine, for being part of our Ignite webinar series. And I'll also just share, thank you again, everyone. Amazing seeing the comments in the chat. I'm getting distracted by them, but we appreciate — No, it's really nice. Actually, I feel like I should screenshot it or something at this point, but um you know, I just want to thank everyone. Again, uh, as folks know, Project Drawdown is a nonprofit organization that depends on the support of individuals like you all. And so, please consider making a donation to Project Drawdown and our work and everything that Catherine is involved with and part of. Um, your contributions definitely mean a lot to advancing science-based climate solutions and pro promoting bold climate action like some of the things that we've talked about in this conversation. So, thanks again, Katherine, and thank you everyone for tuning in. Keep an eye out for recording from this webinar out on our YouTube in the next few days and our next draw down Ignite webinar. Katherine, anything else that you want to say in closing? I feel like it's good to give you the closing word. Yeah, I just I believe so firmly in what I wrote in this book that we are each a node of possibility for healing the climate crisis. Whoever we are, whatever we've got to give. And at the end of the day, this is all for the persistent shimmer of life. So, let us get out there and do it. — Thank you so much, Katherine. Check it out. Coming out on Tuesday. Go. Thanks everyone.