How do I live vs. WHAT AM I? | Tuesday Zen, LIVE (w/Zubin)

All right, I think we're live. Hello, Evelyn and Deno, Tachar, Duck, Ducko, Duck, Patrick, Kathy, everybody's here. And Alaska's in the house with Lisa. I love it. What's up, you guys? Uh, let's talk about anything you like. I'm in my zshed, she shed, so I thought it'd be fun to do a thing from here. It's just like a gorgeous here. What am I doing here? I'll show you. It's a gorgeous day. Look at that. Getting into the beginnings of summer. Things are looking really nice except for me. Hold on. H man. I made the mistake of taking a Zerek last night cuz I have some allergies. It's like been a nasty allergy season. And uh dude, that [ __ ] makes me so drowsy, not going to lie. Anti-edating. Sure, whatever. I'm still drowsy. And I took it last night. Um, what's up, Jerosia? By the seashore, Connie. That's right. Um, all right. Let me uh let me line up your comments on my big TV here so I can see good. I don't speak good, but Let me uh make sure this is working. Okay, cool. There we go. I'll put it right above the camera. Nice. So, what's new? There's been all kinds of uh activity on this end cuz Nah's graduating and so there's all kinds of like we got to do all that. Um, yeah. It's crazy how fast time flies apparently and at the same time it's like nothing's happening. Like this whole thing is the same dance. It's always been just appearances appearing. Um, hey, what's up Chris? Veggie biryani tonight. That's pretty good for Arkansas, I got to say. Failed vegans in the house. Speaking of veggie biryani, uh, we caught up with Cali in Canada. We finally have nice weather. Says Kathy. I'm in the backyard doing report cards. Nice. It is that time. Snakes on a plane says, "The most positive looking man on YouTube. What's your drug regimen? Joke. It looks organic. " Uh, just kidding, I should say. Um, snakes. Yeah, today I was supposed to go Yeah. No, no drugs, unfortunately. No peptides. Just like getting old and like settling into whatever it is this mind body apparatus seems to want. And today was my like scheduled day to go to the gym. I go twice a week. And at those same days, it's an excuse for me to go see my buddy uh Harry and we hang out in his garage and pretend to like exercise, but really we're just socializing. But prior to that, I go to the Stanford gym cuz I get access through my wife. And um there are days when like today I was just I went there and I was like, "Yeah, this is a no. " Like Like Zuben does this because this thing feels good when it does it and when it doesn't it's kind of like yeah this is not happening like there's nothing really pushing to do that. Um, which is different, right? Cuz when you're fully kind of here with a goal and all that, you're living in kind of this thought imaginarium, right? By the way, thanks to Emma in the UK for sending me the imaginarium uh notebook. I'll have to show it on a show. It's in my studio right now. Um, you're living in the Imaginarium and you're always trying to push and pull on reality, but today reality was like, nah. So went to the gym, moved a few things around and was like, "Nah, left, went to the grocery store, saw my buddy, just hung out, and then uh came home and had the luxury of just climbing into bed and taking a nap. " And then after I woke up, I was like, I'm going to do a live show cuz that's what arose. And here we are. So, I don't know. I feel like the body changes in response to that. Like, um, it just becomes more naturally what it is. And that could be classically not attractive or dry skin or god knows what arises. Whatever it is, this is what it is. Um, does Nah's graduation matter if this is all an illusion? Janice Crabtree, you know, it's strange. It doesn't matter in the slightest. Like to me or my wife, we're both like, uh-huh. But here's the twist. when we graduated high school, it didn't matter to us. So, some of that is conditioning like gra like high school is not a thing

for us. It was like you still got college and if you're going to do graduate school of some kind. So, high school is just like whatever. So, just on the relative level, it's like whatever. And yet, we shower her with attention and make all the right noises because that's what the characters do, right? And then on another level, there's a knowing that none of this like has any particular significance beyond the infinite significance of what's appearing. And so the way that shows up is we're like totally stoked she's graduating. Like we're all in like tomorrow we're going to or day after some award ceremony. Then the next day is the graduation on Friday and then um we're going to be traveling all kinds of stuff. So nothing really changes. It's just nothing is really believed. Let's put it this way. You're not pushing and pulling in a world where you're trying to find meaning, create meaning, apply meaning to everything. It's like everything just has its own inherent perfection. It's very strange. So when people say, well, if this is an illusion, by the way, illusion is a tricky thing. It's not so much. When I say illusion, it means that this isn't what you think. It isn't what you label it, but it is exactly what it is. So, it's real as an appearance. Like, this is what's appearing. This, you can't say what it is except that it's this meaning this. We're calling it hand. We're putting labels on it. We're doing But no, it's just what it is. It's this appearing right now. And it has no substance. It has no continuity. It has no purpose, direction, meaning. And so therefore, having none of those things and having no one perceiving it, just it being what it is for no one in a sense, it's infinitely everything. It's all meaning. There's no need for meaning. The whole thing falls away. So Nina graduating is kind of like, yeah, it's kind of like that. Um, and yet thoughts arise like, "Okay, we got to find make sure we get good seats and get her a graduation lay and you know, graduation present and all that other stuff and then she's going to be in college. " And the next story, you know, and these stories continue and continue. Can you guys hear me? Okay, I'm using this little funky mic. Um, does the Zerek matter, Connie Deio? Well, apparently in the story, the character gets really tired when it takes Zerek, but less sniffly and less itchy eyes. Um, D. Ben Kotachar says, "Speak in Doc Vader's voice. " I can, but uh there's a degree to which I'm able to do that. And the rest of it is pitch shifting in Final Cut Pro, the most powerful editing software in the galaxy. Unless you're into Premiere Pro, in which case, [ __ ] you. Um, Laura says, "If she wasn't graduating, do you think you would suffer or not care? " Oh, caring would arise. Um, I don't think there'd be suffering. I think there'd be like irritation would arise, sadness would arise, concern would arise, like all those human feelings that are part of our conditioning. It's part of what this instrument does. It just does that. Apparently, it's all appearance, but like it's experienced as fullon. So nowadays, like things arise and they're felt like fully they're like everything and then they're gone. They don't really stick. Um sometimes if something's sticky, it's funny like when things are sticky now, like there's something that's causing then it does feel like suffering and you notice it because it's like the loudest thing in the room. It's like what is what's going on? But here's an even stranger thing. It used to be when that would happen, there was a phase of this here apparently where there'd be pushing and pulling on that suffering like, "Oh, I shouldn't be suffering because this is all just what it is and has no direction and there's nothing solid here and there's no self to suffer. " Well, fat lot of good. When that's what's arising, then that's exactly what is that sense of suffering. So now even when that arises there's a letting go naturally that happens because it's like okay not my suffering just suffering happening what is that oh it's this and then the next thing and then usually it's on to the next thing sometimes it takes a couple hours day but you know it you're like yeah this is suffering it's no longer unconscious it's no longer um kind of hidden it's hard to get really lost in the us. But anything's possible cuz we don't know anything. Like I tomorrow I could be back to a totally self-contracted suffering human and the this whole manifestation

wouldn't even blink. That's just what it's doing then. So that's how it is. Got to let it all go. I mean, you don't have a choice. Um high five Denina says, "Janice, thank you. Um I'm liking this on YouTube so much more than on Tik Tok, Patrick. " Yeah. Well, I do I've been doing P T T T T Tik Tok lately because it's a new audience and new voices and different energy and it's fun and it evaporates when it's done. So, it's kind of a different I kind of go a little off the rails. Um, but I YouTube's still my favorite place because it's just YouTube. Hi, Rna. Um, Evelyn says, "Can you talk about living in a no goal, no desire world and how the body manages it when it's geared to want to know? " Oh, what a great question. And Evelyn is a superstar, by the way, for those who don't know. And that little bit of specialness that I assigned you, Evelyn, is complete nonsense, right? There's no nothing special. There's no one special. There's no specialness. Everything's special. So, nothing special and everything's special. Um, living in a no goal, no desire world, when the body manages, how does it manage this when it's geared to want to know? Well, that's the thing is it doesn't. So the mind and the body still arise as appearance and they do what they do. So a goal may arise, a desire may arise, a push and pull may even transiently arise. And what's strange is it just it doesn't belong to anyone. Like it arises, it's expressed in some way and it's gone and there's none of the like this is my desire, my goal. It it's just like goaling arises, desiring arises. It's almost like a process and then it goes. So there isn't even a um there's just the functioning of the organism really very simply. It's all very it's kind of simple almost it's beyond description or definition or words because it's that simple. It's just what it is. And it's so simple that I think if you would have showed Zuba this Zuben when you hear that little bit of congestion Zuben that Zuben when you showed Zuben this um if you had shown now grammar's going out the wall everything's gone everything's dying off um if you had shown me this back when I was seeking a lot for relief from suffering and trying to find truth and enlightenment and liberation whatever all those words mean. Um, I would have been like, "What? I don't get it. " Like, this isn't this is no there there's nothing here. Like, it's supposed to be like rainbows and bliss and some kind of like crazy clarity and all that. And in a sense, there is. There's whatever's arising perfectly clear as what it is. But it's just so for the mind it's so boring because it's just this. So yeah, goals arise, caring arises. Um but it's so light, you know. I think you're familiar with this. Jerichosa, why you got to go live when Paul Hedman does? Oh, is Herman live right now? Oh, I didn't even know he did lives. That's cool, man. Paul is pretty awesome. Wow. Haven't had a notification for you in forever. Looking good. Time marches on. Hi, Rebecca. I'm using my shed cam, which is my phone. I just got home from Angelo's retreat, says Lisa Art. We did a really powerful circling exercise. Brings a whole new empowering meaning to suffering, moving the emotion through the body. So, I've done the circling with um James that Angelo does now and teaches. And um it is truly like for the character, for the personality, for the psyche, very powerful. And this is where I think we can make a little distinction. Even though there are no distinctions, everything's just this. There's no separation, right? But there are questions and approaches and strategies and practices and work and shadow and all that stuff in the relative story that decorates better the prison cell that the self lives in. So it takes what was a very uncomfortable prison and says let's round these edges. Let's go in hit those childhood wounds express emo feel emotion instead of repressing it. Be more loving and free with others and ourselves. Find the core of our conditioning and seek to let it be what it is. This sort of thing. And all of that is for me here was very powerful for the character. Like Zuben was lit up by that stuff. And much seemingly happened and fell away and was seen through and insights were had and meditation retreats were done and all that stuff. And it was beautiful and challenging and painful and traumatic and horrifying and embarrassing and humiliating and wonderful and full of unworthiness and everything. And all of

it was um polishing the prison cell which is fine. It's actually great because there's two questions that we ultimately ask. I think one is how do I live? Meaning how does the self when it feels it's separate, how does it live in the world? How is it going to be as happy as possible given that it's in a cage of its own creation? Meaning it is its cage. The self is its own cage. That's the prison. And then when the self is seen through, it was realized that there was never a prison. There was always everything free to be what it was. So the question one is how does that caged self that's an illusion live? And that's where circling and meditation and chanting and religion and belief and study and science and all that beautiful. Nothing wrong with it because it's this. It's the entirety showing up as that maneuver, that apparent happening, that energetic movement. So that's one thing. How do we live? And then we can talk for hours and do and you there's so many videos online by so many different people talking about how to live and they'll couch it as this is awakening. Fine. It has nothing to do with awakening. It seems to happen for people who are energetically ultimately going to stop being a person. Meaning the illusion that contraction that me energy just is seen through or stops. It seems to correlate with a lot of those practices like in the character story, but not always. Sometimes it's not at all. But what is seen is when that all when that stops, everything is seen as just as it is. And that means that process of emotion work, trauma, all the stuff that seemingly happens, shadow, dark night of the soul, all that may still play out. Maybe it needs to for the character. Who knows? Because I don't know what the character is. It's a story. So it has no inherent reality beyond appearing as it is. So that's the second thing is like what are you and the answer to that is undefined meaning there is no entity called you there never was and when that's seen the whole bottom collapses there's a kind of a death in a way and then all that other stuff can still unravel and can because that where's that going nowhere where would it go it's still appear if it's appearing that's what's appearing so now I say you know for a while I went through a reactive period where I was like, "All that stuff is a waste of time. " Like, it's this. And now I'm like, "And that is also this obviously. " So, not It's strange, isn't it, the way I'm talking and yet that's what it is. Uh, let me get up here and catch some of these comments. You guys are going You guys are on fire today. Um, yeah. So, congrats on the retreat, Lisa. That's awesome. Um, absent orange. My youngest got an internship working in his advisor's lab. Emotion 100% arises, but I'm not nearly as invested in it. I really care. It's re It's real. I care. But it's also just what's arising as the caring dad shows up. I think you just said it perfectly. Dadding shows up. Fathering shows up. Caring shows up. It's just doesn't belong to anyone. Even though it feels like maybe there's a me there and it but it's seen through in some sense. Energetically, the whole thing is doing it and it's beautiful. None of it can be rejected. Not an iota of it. It's all this. It's all What could be rejected? What doesn't belong here? What isn't home? Where could you be but home? It's crazy. Oh, James was there. Great, Lisa, for the emotion circling. James is awesome. He and I really enjoyed each other's company at the retreat that I did with uh with him. I think it was at Angelo's house. It was a small group, like eight people. Um Janice Crabtree, this was a couple years back maybe. Janice Crabtree, if there's only now and no future or past, why do you plan to go to the gym for twice weekly workouts beyond the social aspect of hanging out with your buddy? Shouldn't you just enjoy some Twinkies? So, Janice, this is the question that always arises. Well, if there's nothing, there's no um now, there's no future past, there's no you, how does anything get done? And what I would say is Janice, when this is seen where you are apparently, give it a shot. Doing nothing. That in itself is a doing. Eating Twinkies is a doing. So, where is a doing coming from? Nowhere. So, for here, there's a there isn't even planning. There's just like

it's Tuesday, go to the gym, do this. So, the structures of the apparent life story continue. Take the kid to school. Do this. Go see Uncle Harry. Lift weights. But then, God, how do you describe it? You know, they say in Zen, before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After Before enlightenment, a mountain's a mountain, a river is a river. During enlightenment, a mountain is not a mountain, a river is not a river. during the seeking because you're you you're trying to make it, you know, it's just and then after enlightenment a river. And by the way, I hate the word enlightenment. I hate all of it because nobody gets enlightened. It's just it's always been this. Everything is enlightenment. It's back to rivers and mountains. They're just what they are. And going to the gym is just what it is. Seeing my buddy Eating a Twinkie, just what it is. Burping while you're trying to talk, just what it is. Jerosha says, "I prefer spiritual bypassing as my practice because it's all empty. " It's funny because I think bypass when people talk about spiritual bypass, they'll often hurl it as an epithet at someone saying this is bypass. You're using the idea of no self, spirituality, everything's empty, insubstantial to avoid your problems and detach and dissociate. And I think that's it's not uncommon for a self energy to do that. When that energy is thoroughly seen through by no one, when that stops, the question of bypass doesn't even arise because it's like what are you even talking about? Like who would do that? Like I don't understand. Like it's this and even then like you can't bypass like it's seen so clear. Okay. So people are talking about graduation, talking about Twinkies and working out and all that. It's like, dude, I couldn't bypass life if I tried. And you know what's funny? It's impossible to even try anymore. So like things maybe stress arises like there's a concern that arises and it's like oh maybe I'll sit and meditate and it's just like who's doing that? Why? This is just what it is. and it just goes. Even the desire to do it goes. It's a very odd. There's like a whole kind of reconditioning of the organism that seemingly happens where just everything is accepted as what it is, including a lack of acceptance. People talk about surrender. That's what it is. You're not doing it. The whole thing you're it's just surrendered. Every action is surrendered. Um Emma with the Imaginarium notebook. I wish I had it with me. It's at the studio. I don't think Z likes Twinkies. Maybe sardines. Stay home and enjoy sardines. I had some um today I had fish cakes from a local Korean grocery store, but not my sardines. I do love sardines. Twinkies, not so much. Although when I was young, hell yeah. Um Sunil says, "Is that the work? " But I want to say something. I've noticed something about these lives now. All the questions are around this. It's all the stuff that like lights this character up. It's no longer like, "Tell me about the COVID vaccine. " I'm so happy. Like those people kind of washed out or they lost interest. They realized that this wasn't what we were talking about. I love it. These are great questions. Is that the work letting good and bad pass through, staying present, everything is folly and chasing the wind, quote unquote. Um, Sunil, let me say it this way. When that realization is I'm going to use language that doesn't make sense. When that realization happens to you, none of that makes sense. That there's no you. That there's only always been this presence, whatever you want to call it. It shows up as good and bad pass through presence before that understanding which isn't had by a person. The mind will take that and say okay so that's what you do. I'm going to practice being present letting good and bad go doing all these things. And what I call that now is I call that play acting at liberation that the mind does. It's adorable because we all do it. I did it for years and years. It's like, okay, I'm going to f focus on, you know, being present. I'm going to stop thinking about future and past. Let that go. I'm going to actively try to do these things. And that was what I put in that first category of like polishing the prison cell. It's like

we're confusing correlation with causation. When clarity happens, those things appear. If you try to use those things to cause clarity, you start to see the paradox of it, which is the very using of things to cause something is the obstruction to the clarity because it implies there's a person doing something to attain an outcome that isn't now. So the whole spiritual project collapses under its own moronic weight. And I use the word moronic because that's what arose, but it's not a judgmental term. It's just seen here that the mind that thought it could outrun itself with itself was being totally moronic. Like it just didn't it couldn't know that it stops. Like it's not of that equation at all. If anything, it's the apparent illusory obstruction to the seeing that I'm talking about. Um, whoa. Why is this thing being so glitchy? Hold on. Oh, wow. Web Devily, thank you for the 20 bucks and the nice to see you. Nice to see you, too. It's always good to see you in the chat. Thank you for your support. Um, Kathy says, "What if it doesn't? What if parenting feeling doesn't show up? " Ah, what if it doesn't? So, what if Zuben woke up and suddenly was like, "Fuck this family. [ __ ] this wife and kids. I am out. Here is the scary for the mind truth about that. At some point you have you will recognize that that's totally possible and totally okay if it happens. It's not preferred by the character. personality. But you have to realize that everything could go. Including your desire to be a parent, spouse. All that could go and it would be what is happening. arising and it would be exactly perfectly part of the unfolding. And until that's accepted, there's always a resistance. There's always a me here resisting. And that me can't let go of that. It doesn't. The me itself goes poof. And I can't say how that happens because it doesn't happen to a person. But I'll say this statistically, probability wise, just the fact that you are here interacting in this way, there's something energetically happening apparently that may lead to exactly that. Those are all words that don't make any sense. Um, so yeah, you have to be okay with that. Well, I dig your energy too. the classified shite. Lisa P. How about parenting one's parents? That varies some shadow work. Well, I mean, yes. And you'll see that that's where the most triggering occurs is with your family, with your parents. Um, see what happens. See how it arises. For me, it was this interesting dance. And it still is because my mother is I still have my weekly phone calls with my mother and uh it's, you know, so much has been let go. I used to try to change her She never really tried to change me. She never did that. My dad used to try to change me, but at the by the end he was like, nah, I get it now. Which is beautiful. But yeah, now it's like, no, she's mom's moming, you know? It doesn't mean that I this character enjoys some of it. It's kind of like, oh, and sometimes it's like, yeah, it is fun. Sometimes you just see them with totally different eyes. You're like, wow, that's a really funny, smart person that I was calling mom, you know, as a label. Um, Miss Mrs. Jira, I thought you were Miss Jahra before. You have been You've been Mrs. Jihyra this whole time. Uh, to me thinks the me thinks it's doing things and controlling things, but it's actually just happening. Then claiming it after. Exactly. So something happens and then this sense of me arises as an energetic. It's a contraction. It's a full body energetic with thought, belief, all of it as a constellation of energy. and it claims it and says, "I did this or that's mine. That's my anger or that's my decision. " It's total nonsense. And when it's seen through, it's just you just laugh and laugh. You're like, "I can't believe it. " Like, I can't believe it. It's hilarious. Evelyn, all quote, "Almost everything will start working again once you unplug it, including you. " Angelo's retreat was a fun unplug. That's awesome. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I loved those retreats. Everyone I went to, I loved them. Um because it was it was like that. It was like you're finally, you know, there there's something okay I nowadays I take a [ __ ] on a lot of stuff like ah you know is this idea that retreat can cause

awakening and this stuff because nothing's causal because this is a story without time and without a person. Um there's something about being in a place where you're given permission to not be a part of the matrix and that itself is a powerful energetic signature. And the fact that you're there means that was arising for you anyways. It's not positive. It's like an epipenomenon of you. A you meaning that particular constellation of energy we're calling you, which is everything. There is no you. It's the whole showing up as a particular apparently. And so those retreats can give you permission. This like little satsang thing we're doing gives you permission to ask the questions, drop the assumptions, see through and relax the beliefs and just be with others that are doing the same thing, apparent others. Then it seemed there's no apparent others and there was never a you. And then it's like, whoa, the whole thing just puts a smile on your face. Um, the classified says, "How do you deal with the constant feeling of wanting to control things? It's all-consuming sometimes. " Yeah, it is the what the mind does. It's this constant movement of control and it's often unconscious. Then it starts to become more and more conscious. You start to see when you're doing it and you see the suffering it's causing and then at some point it just goes here. It took I mean, who am I kidding? it'll still arise. I'll look at a tree there and I'll be like I want that tree shorter and it's just seen it's like that too is arising because when you let go of even the desire not to control like the regret about control becomes much lighter. It's just what's appearing. So it's all welcome. It's like yeah that's what mine does. It tries to control and that too is okay. it is and just that is enough often to relax the whole constellation of energy. I mean again I made that up because I don't know that anything does anything but since we're speaking sometimes speaking in this way is a nice dance between us. Um Heather Thomas enlightenment means something to me in the sense of when we learn to stop hoarding trauma when we let go when we let things go as quickly as it comes. Right? So that's a definition that you're using of enlightenment and it's beautiful. It's also again in within the prison of the character. So the character is able to let things go, stop hoarding trauma, etc. Let things go as quickly as they come. At some point, the bottom of that character drops out and then there's just letting go in every moment. Nothing really can stick. And yet everything arises. So memory of trauma may arise, but nothing really sticks. And the whole desire to push and pull on it really relaxes because it's realized it can't be pushed and pulled on because it's what's arising, including the pushing and pulling. It's a radical acceptance of everything. Beautifully said, by the way, um the classified shite says, "I constantly want to control my thoughts or just bumrush my thoughts with shame. " Oh, yeah. I know. Yeah. It's really quite a tragic comic thing the spiritual pursuit because we learn that we're not our thoughts. We learn it intellectually. We learn to meditate and redirect from thoughts and then a secondary wave of spiritual ego arises that says I must now control my thoughts. It is not okay to have this or that negative thought or whatever it is. That can be one of the things that happen and a good you know someone who's pointing well will say no that too is welcome you just redirect but even that it's like we just become more and more neurotic and that that's maybe part of the whole thing for me I was so [ __ ] neurotic so neurotic on this path oh god everything was just oh god just a [ __ ] fogg let's not lie it sucked and it was beautiful and there were these wonderful mystical experiences and unity consciousness and all this nonsense And then it goes and you realize nothing everything d everything is the perfection including the mundane misery of just being Z. Um the classified says I love what you said someone gives you the permission to be to not be part of the matrix. Yeah, that's what it's giving permission. These retreats, a good retreat gives you permission to no longer play the social game. game of being a human and you just being. Quinn says, "Can you explain with examples what pushing and pulling means in relation to thoughts? " Okay. So, right now, let's say uh I'm going to

look outside. I see this tree that I really want to trim, but I know it's like covered in poison oak and there's all this stuff and I'd have to go out there and do it. So, maybe I could get somebody to do it for me. And so the thought arises like I don't like this. And then there's a feeling in the body of like oo that's uncomfortable. There's a grasping feeling like I want that tree to be other than it is or things won't be okay. Then there's an immediate recognition because of the practices, right, of redecorating our prison cell. Sorry, I'm just going to move ah into a little side angle here. Um, because the practices of redecorating our prison cell, we learn that those thoughts are trying are are a lack of acceptance. They're not a surrender to what is. They're not being present. They're thinking about future and past. And so there's a secondary movement of thought that arises and energetic that arises that says that's got to stop. That's not okay. I need to meditate or I need to be better. Or more commonly, I'm just not good enough for this. It'll never be okay. I can't get rid of these thoughts. And that's what I mean by pushing and pulling it. Having it be other than it is. What may arise now is those thoughts may arise and it's seen very quickly. Oh yeah, pushing and pulling thoughts and they're fully accepted. Yeah, there's pushing and pulling going on. There isn't that secondary pushing and pulling on it. Like it should be other than this. This is not comfortable. I don't want this. Like it's more just, oh yeah, that's happening. Zuben zubining about the tree. Whatever. It's strange and the way I'm describing it isn't quite accurate because it's more an energetic sense. There isn't thinking about it. Um, yeah. Let's see. Connie says, "Zuben, you always have been a wonderful force in my life at the right time. " That's so sweet, Connie. You've been here, so your energyy's always been here. It's beautiful. Thank you, Ms. Jira. It's just a quiet simple noticing over and over. I think that's a decent way to describe it. It just keeps getting noticed and then it just becomes more and more automatic. Um that's just a description of the epipen phenomena of this. Um you're not really doing it. It's like it that's how it seems to show up, right? KB Shrink, good to see you. Missed absorbing your world in the imaginarium. Yes, Emma's Imaginarium. She found So, we were saying like who invented Imaginarium and it's been used in many different ways. Emma looked it up for me and then she found it showed up in her life this notebook that said by somebody named Emma. It said the Imaginarium on the notebook and she sent it to me all the way from Great Britain and I have it on my desk in the studio. That's called synchronicity. Um, Rebecca, how does one find a good retreat from the Matrix? You know, I like Angelo's retreats. They're pretty good. Um you can go to simply always awake. com. Uh but all kinds of retreats happening. You know, people do them. It's just you want one where it's not a bunch of dogma and a bunch of lectures. You just want to again I think for me it was given permission to just be and not participate. That's why talking retreats were never that much fun for me. I really like the sitting silent retreats and it makes it uncomfortable because you're not used to it but then by the end you're like I could do this for the rest of my life. That's how it was for me. Yeah. Webb debly. Resistance makes for twice the suffering. Yeah. Because it's a second arrow. It's first arrow is inevitable. Just what's arising. Second arrow is the apparent you pushing and pulling. Jerosa, the biggest sticking point for me is morality. It can be really hard to give up the idea of being good or worthy person. Religious conditioning is a [ __ ] So Jerichos, you know, some of that is like your enog like personality wiring. So the enagram one for example is a the whole conditioning is around being good um in a moral sense in some sense and then countobically acting out and doing all these different things and it's another pattern of the energetic of the me right and so it can for you yeah being good or worthy for me it was worthy it was being good enough not good in a moral sense good in a sense of worthy. Yeah. Worthy of just being alive. And it had nothing to do with morality for me. It had everything to do with just being competent at being human. And I wasn't. I knew I wasn't cuz how

can you be? And um yeah, you can tell stories. Oh, no, you're great. Oh, of course you're competent. you became a doctor and then you became a weird medical celebrity and then you had a great family and a house and all this and yeah you've saved for retirement. It's like that has nothing to do with this. This is a core fundamental sense that I will never be okay. I'll never be enough. And you can't think your way out of that. It's energetic. And when the self is seen through again by no one that whole energetic just seemingly just go you just goes what? Oh, there's nothing to be worthy or unworthy. So again, back to morality. There's nothing to be good or not good. There's just decisions arising, movements arising, the whole morality game falls apart. And yet compassion seems to be the default because there's no sense of separation anymore. So what are you trying to get from someone and what are they you and pushing and pulling it? It just doesn't. It just drops and there's just unconditional love. Even when there's irritation and you're trying to get something from something, it just drops. It's very It's really hard to talk about. Um, let me uh Emma says, "Get get me that tree, but I want it pink with marshmallow flowers. Get it now. " Exactly. That's the wanting mind. Um, DK dude man, good to see you. Thanks for your support, by the way. Hiuban, addictive habits are the darnest things. I don't think I've been looking at them close enough for a past couple years. So, addictions start to show themselves in many funny ways. Um, for me it was like I got a lot of comfort from eating, from like thinking about the next meal. Uh, thought was my one of my biggest addictions, getting just lost in projections and problem solving and that kind of thing. Um, and I would just let that be. And then you realize you it is a root thing because what's driving the addiction? Again, unworthiness, sense of emptiness, there's all kinds of things. It's different for everybody in some level, but for me it was this unworthiness drive like trying to assuage this hole at the center of me. And it took the me being seen through for the addictive stuff to suddenly become just what it was. Now eating is just eating. Thinking is just thinking. It's no longer there to do something like assuage something. And so it might even continue for a while. So, I have a friend um who had a full like, you know, no self like Jim Newman, Tony Parson's non-dual realization and was a heavy like alcoholic and a smoker. And at one point, he was drinking in his car listening to Tony Parsons talk about non-duality. And he was like, "That's spot on. " Like drunk as [ __ ] still just totally alcoholic. And then one day as things fell away, it just stopped. Alcohol just stopped and he hasn't had a drink since. What didn't stop was smoking. So smoking continue to smoke. And he's like, "This is just this is how it is. This is liked by the character. It's going to continue. " And it was like that. So it's really paradoxical. Things are just as they are. There's no way that things have to be. Yeah. It's really interesting. Um yeah, Miss Jahara, Mrs. Jihara, can't go wrong with free good old vapasa though. Yeah, I mean you can't go wrong with anything because it's what's arising, right? But like vipasa is interesting. It used to I used to do a lot of vaposa meditation following the breath and doing body scan and getting very deep on the insight of how the sensations arise and so on. And what I found is when I did that after the meditations, I was reactive, angry, irritable. Um, a lot of unconscious stuff hadn't been allowed. And there was a lot of self- reification as the one who did the vapa, but I wasn't allowing things like anger and irritation. So all that stuff seemingly had to arise and be seen for what it was. Uh and then vaposa itself kind of fell away but it's kind of different for everyone. Everybody's expression is a little different. Um let's see. Wow, so many great comments. What is even going on with you guys today? Let me just check something real quick here. Okay, good. Um, emanated apparition says, "Funny, not

being good enough is exactly the belief that's showing up here. When the spiritual crusade is undertaken, not being good enough is was for me the primary thing. It always felt like I was faking my way through it, you know. Here's the funny thing. So, I was talking to the same guy who the alcohol uh cigarettes non-duality guy and um because we just had a little meeting in Berkeley and I'm not going to say his name because I don't know that he this he says this publicly although I don't think he cares because he said it at the meeting. Um, but I told him, I go, you know, isn't it funny like you're for a while you go through a phase where you're just you understand it intellectually and you're kind of going through the motions of it, but you know you're an imposttor and you're faking it and you don't get it. And he's like, "Yep, exactly. It's totally like that. You just feel so unworthy. " And I'm like, "Yeah, this unworthiness thing is the core driver until it isn't. " And when it isn't, it can still arise, but it just is seen through so quickly. But yeah, for me, it was that was the core. And I didn't realize it until very recently that was the core for me at the base of all my behavior, all my suffering, and all the suffering I caused for others was my own sense of I'll never be okay. I'll never be enough. And again, because there's a me. The mei has to have its core brokenness because it if you're a me, you're never going to be whole. How can you be? You think you're separate? Um Kathy says, "What do you mean how could you be? How could you not be? Being alive is your birthright. " I don't know what we're referring to. Uh I'll have to think. I'll have to come back to that. Mrs. Jihara, the world can never satisfy the never- ending demands of the mind, quote unquote. Realizing this is the first step towards true peace. Well, the world is the never- ending demands of the mind. Like the world is the expression of like what we're laboring the world is our mind expression. Um, so it will never satisfy because the mind is the apparent illusion and the obstruction to seeing that this is just as it is. It doesn't see that because it doesn't really exist. It's just a movement, an energy. Um, you can't find the mind. Quinn Phelps says, "I went to Angela's retreat in the UK last year. This the location in Waldingham is gorgeous for miles and the price was right for my budget, including airfare if that's a concern. I'm still decorating my prison walls though, lol. Um, oh, where'd it go? Hold on. I don't want to lose that one. It's good. I have all the patience for it though. Beautiful. When decorating the prison walls shows up, it shows up and you go with that cuz that's what's showing up. Zuben went with that. Like I went with that for years. was I was decorating my prison walls and it felt like progress and it'll do that until suddenly and I don't know how this happens for me it was just God knows so many different things but suddenly it's just like poof there's almost an awakening from that dream that you could have done anything and who knows maybe it all that had to happen that's the argument people make in order for the poof to happen but all you can say is that's the story and I'm sticking to it because it's a story. So yes, go go. And I'll tell you, Angela's retreats are [ __ ] awesome. I love that [ __ ] Um and then when it went when it was gone, it was absolutely gone. It was like, why would I do that? What's that about? Now, I'll revise that and say, "If there was a retreat in my backyard and I didn't have to fly and pay money, I might show up and just see what that's about because there's a pleasant enjoyment in sitting in silence with the permission not to have to participate in anything or even pretend. It's I mean, you can't pretend anymore, but just not just being just sitting. " I think I would do that just for the joy of it. No goal or gain expected, no work to be done. Um, yeah, Alan Watts was an alcoholic. Exactly, Susan. Narodatada was a chain smoker. Exactly. There's no perfectionism in this. There's no way that things have to be. They're just what they are. In fact, that is awakening. That is liberation is seeing that everything is just right even when it's crazy. Yeah. Lisa says, "Same. Anger came in title waves. " Yeah. With vapasa and at retreat, just anger. So much repressed anger came rolling out for me. Uh Ashley

Stewart, it's strange. I don't have much of a formal meditation practice anymore, but I can tell when I want some silence because I immediately feel the desire to go sit in silence for a bit. That's how it is here. Yeah, I'll just go sit. And you know, sometimes when I sit now, it is it just arises. It's like I want to do that. Um I need to do that. Whatever it is, this is what this organism needs. I'll sit and like crazy energetics will have apparently happen. You'll just feel courses of energy and interesting things just arise. It doesn't mean anything. It's just what's arising. But that's just the description of how it is here. DK dude man. Yeah. Doing a pre- retreat lifestyle restriction thing. The addictive motivations seem to come from thought and in my case preemptive in order to avoid the situation where root sensations arise. Yeah. Addiction. So much addiction is avoidance of feeling these root sensations. For me, it was avoidance of feeling unworthiness. Yeah, same for me, says Risna. Ashley says, "I feel that so much with unworthiness. Nothing like a healthcare education to perpetuate that feeling a lot. " Yeah, healthcare is a home of imposter syndrome. Angelo 1052 says, "Hey, it's been a while since I've seen one of your streams. " Nice. Welcome. Um, yeah, Mrs. Jihara, the mind makes the world and its meaning. Exactly. At least there's no inherent meaning or inherent world honestly there just with disappearance. Justin McMillan as someone else just mentioned Alan Watts also drank heavily which I found upsetting when I first learned of it. Someone who seemed to have all the answers to everything but still a human being. Oh, I'll tell you. And it it's impossible to know what someone's what the realization is there, right? But let's assume the way he spoke, the way he expressed, he had a deep realization. There was deep realization that there wasn't anything happening, right? So for him, it was like drinking was occurring. It wasn't really a problem. It's what he did. And the judging mind goes, "Well, I don't want that kind of enlightenment. " It's pretty funny. You have to accept everything. Like I tell you, like all kinds of weird count [ __ ] came up here during this process. like stuff that I'd been repressing and I let it express with support and permission and it was like oh oh what was that coming from? Unworthiness. Oh [ __ ] All right. Iron twist. Hello everyone from hospital. Oneweek ketamine infusion for chronic pain again. So glad to be viewing on live. Makes the hospital experience so much more fascinating. Christina. Ah hope you're doing okay Christina. Dan Riddick says, "My guru says, as long as I keep paying him $50 a week for lessons, I'll quickly become enlightened. " The guru disciple relationship is a perfect symbiotic synergy. The guru says, "I have something you don't have, and I will give it to you for a price. " Whatever that price is. Maybe it's validation, maybe it's sex, maybe it's money, maybe it's whatever. And the seeker says, "I'm willing to give to this person because I want what they have cuz I'm not good enough. " It's a perfect delusionary coupling. Uh, and it can be just right. what's showing up and just what's going to happen. You know, emanated says, "I've never been uh to a retreat and while I don't have much money available, I will find a way to October to the October silent retreat. " Nice. Let us know how that goes. Yeah, they're amazing. Angelo says, "I wondering if you have any tips for overcoming lack of motivation or sense of purpose in times when everything feels dark and not aligned. So, I have no advice. What I would what I'd say is what arose here and how it arises. What you're describing is so common and it's so common on this kind of unraveling process that just there's just you're just no, I'm not even getting out of bed. " And you could even call it depression except there's not really a depressed mood. It's very hard to describe. It's a total energetic collapse of any sense. Again, purpose goes, meaning goes, identity goes, hope is gone. At one point, hope totally went. And if it can feel dark for the mind that's still there, the self that's still there. It's like, this is dark, man. I used to this I was living off this hope. and all this stuff and now I have nothing. And what I can say is yes, you have nothing. There's no hope, no purpose, no meaning, no direction. And it's so perfect. It's like the unconditional perfection of the entirety showing up as hopelessness, as no motivation. And just let it be. Sometimes I just don't get out of bed.

Today, today I was supposed to go work out, do all this. It's just no. I felt it in the body. I was like, this body's telling me hell no. Like, I could go through the sets of these exercises, but for what? I'm here because body wanted it. Now body doesn't want it. So, body's going to go home. Go shopping. Go home. Crawled right into bed. Took a nap for like an hour. Woke up. Brush my teeth. I dragged a comb across my head. Found my way downstairs and did a live. Sometimes I strive and I woke up in a dream. Oh, the Beatles. I miss you. Dan Riddick, somewhat on the subject. What are your non-duality coping mechanisms? I don't I'm not sure what that means. Ask in a different way. Non-duality coping mechanisms. I can kind of bark up the tree that you're I'm going to move this bark up a little bit the tree that you're talking about, but it's still a little confusing. So, help me out. Um because I think there's something in that question that I think would be fun. Uh Spotless Wanderer, hi Zub question. Have you at times felt images, sensations that there is really just one voice mind that we just give different names and that it's some level you can connect through the voices to us? Big capital U. Uh yeah, I've had those um energetic senses and I'll just say from here now it see and they felt so they felt absolutely real. I'll say I have no idea what that is. It's another appearance. Like I have no clue what the nature of reality is. I just know it's this like this is it. And so whether there's one consciousness, one boy I don't even know what that means. I just know this is wholeness showing up as Zuben. And sometimes it shows up as the feeling that there's this one voice, one I used to say it as there's one consciousness looking through all eyes and you just know it. You feel it in a way that you can't describe. And that's an appearance. It's another happening. It's another phenomenal appearance. It doesn't really mean anything. So, you let even that specialness go. The specialness of oneness. Um Dan says, "What are the ways you change your thoughts in a non-dual way to overcome the suffering that arises occasionally? " Ah, so you can't do it. You cannot change those thoughts. But what does happen is there's a natural seeing of the whole context of it. This is thought and then there's a surrender even into that. So there's a natural movement of just okay so that's what's arising and then the next thought and the next thought. So there isn't a coping mechanism. There's just what's happening. And in a sense maybe that's the coping mechanism. There's the seeing that it's just what's happening and it's okay. And if they're suffering, something arises like you'll go and sit or you go take a walk or it just seems to happen that way. Um, yeah, I can't say there's a lot of pushing and pulling on the way thinking happens now because of what would push and pull on it. Damn, Dan. Sometimes, I mean, just even going in that direction forces a looking at what is and everything just stops. Like, I have no idea where the words come from. Like, yeah, man. You know, that kind of trippy aspect of non-duality doesn't show up as much anymore because it's so part of the fabric of it. But sometimes when it's pointed like the way you were asking your question pointed me into the mind in the process there was a looking and suddenly there was nothing looking. There was just the realization that it's always everything and it's still an emotion at the same time. I'm using words cuz it's fun but I can't describe that. Um, at different moments of time, some conversation could be between you now and me. You on a dream 50 years from my now spotless wanderer. See, like that's a lot of contortion. I know what you're pointing at, but it's like the mind loves these things. It loves these dances of time and space and mind and you and I and all that. And it's all fine. It's all arising. It's all perfect. But I it's hard for me to say anything about it and believe it. Uh it's interesting. Yeah. But it's a kind of a beautiful dance.

Um emanated says, "My mother's long-term boyfriend died unexpectedly two and a half weeks ago. I'm sorry. After that, the body shut down and I didn't get out of bed for two 21 and no two and a half to three days except to use the restroom. No control, only surrendering. " Ah yeah. It just happens like that. Yeah, something traumatic occurs apparently body shuts down, lays in bed. I mean, what would an animal do that doesn't have thought and a sense of self? Exactly that. We see dogs get they withdraw. Cats can withdraw. Um, and then they come back because they're not holding it. Yeah, I'm sorry you're going through that or went through that. Alvin says, "Too many minds in my mind. need a little sound bath to wash that [ __ ] away. Hey man, whatever works for the apparent minds. Patrick says we are just the universe looking at oursel. So I mean that's a way of speaking. Um that's fun. We're the universe looking at oursel, right? But what's realized here? How can I say this? There's nothing looking at anything. There's just looking. And there isn't even looking. There's just everything. It all collapses into real simplicity that we can complexify. The mind can complexify it infinitely because it's fun and it's nothing wrong with that. Oh, welcome to the super PAC, Quinn. Ah, thanks for being a supporter. I love it. Dan Riddick says, "I like the you see the bigger picture and surrender idea. That's great. " Yeah, it just it happens naturally. You know, you don't even you can't even see it. It's just there's a seeing. Yeah. And I don't know what causes that. I don't think there is causality. Um Oi Allan Cheryls says, "Just embrace the dueling of duality. " I think that's that's it. Marathon Monk, good to see you. Have your views changed on relationship, intimacy, etc. Um yeah, I think there's just not a view anymore. It's like relationship is the dance that's appearing. Intimacy It's just what it is. You know what's strange is like now there's no way that I think it should be. And so it's completely free to be just what's arising. Nothing really sticks. And I can just say like from a practical standpoint, how that shows up is there's more intimacy. The relationship is deeper. There's more we don't need anything from each other. And so we give each other exactly what we need. It's a total paradox. Yeah, it's really nice. Um, and I will say, yeah, when the unworthiness was kind of seen through, the grasping for something better was also seen through cuz I I saw that it was falling from it was coming from a sense of I'm not okay, so something is wrong, you know. um in any relationship. That's how it had always been. Uh Steve Jobs is God says it drives me nuts when people in medicine try to conclude causality. And that's their job, right? They have to say this caused this, so we do this and that causes this. And maybe it does, but I think I just don't know what causality is. I don't think it exists. I can't find it. I just see a story playing out. Um, but yeah, medicine's a tough one. Um, because that that's what we're trained to do. Uh, let me see. All right. Well, looks like we may have uh done a thing here. How long we've been going, I don't know. Um yeah, not seeing more comments. So maybe we we played our uh sat song out here. You know, whenever um someone would tell Eugi Krishna Mirththy like thanks for having this sat song. He would say don't use that filthy word. He just discounted all spirituality, any of the language, any of it. Just threw it away. Uh here's a good question. and Lisa P Zoom anytime soon? Yes, let's do it. So, for supporters, I do these Zoom meetings very rarely because I have to feel like the energy arises and then cuz it's quite an event. And then if you're in the supporter tribe here on YouTube, Facebook, locals, I send I post on your supporter feed, here's a Zoom link, we're speaking at this time. And you know, like 30 people show up and we sit together and we each just share kind of what's going on and reflect back and

forth, support each other. It's really beautiful. So, yeah, let's do one. Uh, I'll post on the feed um when we're going to do it. Um, thanks for coming, Evelyn. Oh, thanks, Dan. Uh, no, you had Yeah, you were perfect. Um, and Lisa's back from Publix. That's the only place to be. All right, gang. I love you guys so much. And, uh, have you guys seen this guy, uh, your daily dose of internet on YouTube? He like coates uh all the funniest [ __ ] that happens uh in little videos and reals and stuff and puts it in one video called Daily Dose of Internet. And uh he has just this funny voice. He's like welcome. It's your daily dose of internet. And he'll be like this cat didn't know what it was doing. And at the end he's like thanks again for joining us and I'll see you very soon. So I'm going to steal his [ __ ] I'll Yeah. Right, Dan. Yeah, he's been doing that forever. Yeah, I love that guy. Um, thanks everyone. Yeah, YouTube will notify you, Quinn. It will um it will send you a thing saying Zuben has posted in your member forum and then you go to the to the uh notification and I'll have posted the Zoom link. And that is a good way to do it. Um, all right gang, I love you. And if you're on locals, it'll just notify you that there's a supporter post. And if you're on Facebook, same thing. There'll be a supporter post that'll notify you. Um, all right gang, until next time. Peace out. Now, what do I do here? First, I stop recording like that. Then I go here and I end stream. Bye-bye.